The bucket list has come to haunt me

[dichotomy]

Back in college I had this great GF. She used to give me these "coupons" redeemable for a various things like a homemade diner, or a back rub.... or a BJ. I found some in an old box of college materials. I guess they have an expiration date or something, because she was not happy I called to redeem them, neither was her husband.

 

Look - Marriage changes everything. New contract, new list, new vows.

[worldgonewrong]

1. I'm shocked by this. You're obviously a good person, and it doesn't square with your husband's complete amorality. My God. Yes, this is devastating. And yes, you have every right to be upset.

 

2. Just a footnote: the fact that you both devised this list years ago still left a door open - the sense that you or both of you are looking over your shoulders at others. You might've taken it as a joke; he obviously didn't. No relationship should be built on the idea of 'well, i love you, but...if I had my chance, I'd toss you overboard to sleep with so-and-so.' I hate to say it, but this one kind of came back to bite you in the backside. And I feel for you.

[MYCluciferase]

Can't believe it's "50-50 as to whether he was in the wrong" - but let's be clear...

 

OK - he didn't check back with you before doing it...

Did it ever come up after you got married in any way? i.e. were there any conversations about the list that meant that it still felt 'alive' as a possibility in the meantime, and how recent was that?

 

Are you guys flirty with others when together, open-minded about friends whose marriage partners have a fling etc..

 

Had he ever offered to you that you could have sex on the side?

 

If the answers are "No", "Not for a long time", "No", and "No" then I think he's a total idiot and you're in the right.

 

Feel sorry for you.

[pteromom]

Definition of cheating:

 

- you wouldn't do it if your partner was standing there next to you

- you are turning outside the relationship to fill a need that should be filled within the relationship

 

Yep, he cheated.

 

Bucket list or not, he cheated. Period. End of story.

[waterwoman]

I quite fancy Johnny Depp. H has a thing for Kristin Scott Thomas (fortunately for him I have a similar voice ). Even if we wrote them down in a list along with a few ordinary people we liked there is no way either of us would beleive it made it OK to actually sleep with them.

 

He is behaving very badly and I think some lines need to be drawn. Your friends and your h are being disengenuous in the extreme.

[Mr. Lucky]

Can't believe it's "50-50 as to whether he was in the wrong" - but let's be clear...

 

OK - he didn't check back with you before doing it...

To me his lack of touching base with you beforehand is the biggest red flag. Let's say my bucket list item was a trip to Paris and someone gave me a free ticket, leaving tomorrow. I guarantee you my first call would be to my wife, asking "OMG, I can check this off my list, just got a free ticket to Paris, but..."

 

So "OMG, I can check this off my list, I've got a chance to bang Suzy Q, but..." would have been an easy call to make to you. That he didn't means he knew it was cheating and, like all cheaters, valued that experience above his relationship with you. Act accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

I have done so much soul searching that I fear any more is just going to add to my confusion.

 

I would love to be able to get in his head and know what he was thinking at the time. Whether it was, "oh boy, I'll have a great story to tell my wife" or "I can get away with this if I use the list as an excuse".

 

I honestly believe it is the former, he sees absolutely nothing wrong with what he did (well he does now, but at the time he didn't). He came home and told me, he could have said nothing and I never would have known. It lends weight to it being an honest mistake.

 

But if it was just an honest mistake where does that leave me? I don't want to lose the man I love over an honest mistake, but on the other hand, he had sex with another woman. I think I can forgive that if I'm sure it was a mistake but I don't think I could ever forget. The images are always going to pop in my head, during an argument it will probably come up. They say when you truly forgive you have to let it go, I don't think I am strong enough to do that.

 

Even if it was an honest mistake I think our marriage is doomed. And what a heartbreaking way to end a marriage because of a misunderstanding. Anything else, anything, I could move on but this is just to much for me.

 

I know you said ignore what others say/think but is it truly that prevalent amongst other couples that no-one is shocked by this?

 

Since you were just a blindsided victim of infidelity, it is going to feel like the whole planet is screwing around except you for a little bit. It doesn't help that there are some people near you screwing around.

 

I say, if you want to split up, stop at the neighbour's place on the way out.

 

If you want to stay together, go for one of the celebrities.

 

Really, what an idiot.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

As for those "open" friends, they will become a problem in the future if you both decide to be monogamous. You know how they say "Birds...flock together?" You need to have friends with the same value system who will help build your R up. Otherwise you'll find yourself involved in things you don't like.

 

Apparently these friends don't just "flock" together.

[BetrayedH]

To me his lack of touching base with you beforehand is the biggest red flag. Let's say my bucket list item was a trip to Paris and someone gave me a free ticket, leaving tomorrow. I guarantee you my first call would be to my wife, asking "OMG, I can check this off my list, just got a free ticket to Paris, but..."

 

So "OMG, I can check this off my list, I've got a chance to bang Suzy Q, but..." would have been an easy call to make to you. That he didn't means he knew it was cheating and, like all cheaters, valued that experience above his relationship with you. Act accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I agree with this entirely. A real man that respected his wife would have sheepishly checked in prior. A douche-rocket pulls out a 7-year-old paper afterwards.

[findingnemo]

To me his lack of touching base with you beforehand is the biggest red flag. Let's say my bucket list item was a trip to Paris and someone gave me a free ticket, leaving tomorrow. I guarantee you my first call would be to my wife, asking "OMG, I can check this off my list, just got a free ticket to Paris, but..."

 

So "OMG, I can check this off my list, I've got a chance to bang Suzy Q, but..." would have been an easy call to make to you. That he didn't means he knew it was cheating and, like all cheaters, valued that experience above his relationship with you. Act accordingly...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Is it really that simple?

 

What do you think of her BF coming home from a weekend away announcing with glee "Hey, I just crossed Suzy off my bucket list!" Either he is being super dumb or super clever. No in between there. I find the fact that he told her what he'd done interesting. He could have kept it to himself and if discovered later claimed it was on his bucket list. I'm thinking that he actually (probably dumbly) thought it was still okay. The bucket list rule was still in play years later.

 

It sounds silly, even childish. But let's not forget that OP and her BF made an agreement (valid, as it was between two consenting adults) to have a bucket list as she describes. At no point in that agreement did they say they will check with each other first.

 

Another problem for her is that one of the couples (long time friends who also made a bucket list together with Hole and her BF) have obviously worked at crossing off some of their wishes. This couple has reinforced the idea in her H's mind that it is only natural to do what he did.

 

So can't her BF argue that she should act accordingly?

[findingnemo]

My point, Hole, is that years ago you subscribed to a certain lifestyle (for lack of a better description). You and your BF (SO) and two other couples believed in not an open R but in each individual being allowed to fulfill certain sexual desires. As time went on, some of you were able to do so and others were not. Among the ones who didn't were your SO and yourself.

 

Unfortunately you never really discussed this again. Your SO has been for the last 7 years living with his fantasies under the impression that he will be allowed to fulfill them. It may be an impractical way for a committed man to think but it is what seems to have happened. I don't see how you can fairly kick him to the curb over this without, to some extent, believing that he should have read your mind.

 

You changed...but he couldn't possibly have known that.

[Mr. Lucky]

Is it really that simple?

 

Yes it is. I made a solemn vow with my fellow band members in our teenage years that, given the right musical opportunity, we'd all quit those boring adult jobs and pursue sex, drugs and rock and roll!

 

Life happened. Marriage happened. Kids 1-4 happened. Rock fame and lifestyle, not going to happen. And today that includes "even if I could"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BrokenPrincess]

Remember that Friends episode too and my then bf and I also laughed about it. Didnt Ross even come to his senses when he saw Isabella Rosselini or something? Well whatever, that is completely shocking that your H actually HS onto this paper for SEVEN YEARS and pulled it out after he had sex with his ex-gf. Are you freaking kidding me??

 

Even if you're not legally married, ok you have house and 2 kids, you're committed and grown up ( well YOU are at least). Your friends sound shocking too...are they swingers?

 

I mean, I'm married had an affair which I obviously know was wrong...how the heck does your H think you'd be ok with this? Does he have a history of a lot of boneheaded moves?

[dreamingoftigers]

I guess I don't understand. You are angry/hurt because he did something that you agreed to? I mean, it seems that people don't renew their marriage vows and just accept them for 40 years, that they are still valid - you two had an agreement, and never revisited it, so why wouldn't he think it was still valid? Just because you don't say it every day doesn't make it invalid as time goes by - any more than those marriage vows become invalid according to some here. And, you aren't even married to him? So, is there an understanding of exclusivity?

 

I'm sorry you are hurting, but honestly, you agreed to this. You never revisited it to change the agreement, so it was still an agreement that you were in on, fully aware and gave your full agreement to. You can take it back now if you want I guess, and explain to him why - and it seems he's okay with that and sorry he hurt you - but yeah, I see his point. You agreed to it and now you're upset, pretty unfair.

 

There's always one.....

 

There OP, there's the post defending him. I'm surprised it took this long to arrive.

 

Now the LS thread is almost complete.

 

Soon the "angry guys" will cone talking about how you must be denying him sex and using his money and probably using your bucket lust but he can't use his and how it's so unfair

 

Someone else will suggest an open relationship

 

If you get a real bonus some crazy chick will come in here blah blabbing about how "humans aren't monogamous anyhow" the proof being "I've cheated on my husband for six years and I still love him when he doesn't bug me about my whereabouts, "yore a prud."

 

Enjoy....

[awkward]

 

If you get a real bonus some crazy chick will come in here blah blabbing about ..."

 

Raises hand - I am going to play the part of the crazy chick but in a different way. So he wrote down his EX-girlfriend on his bucket list 7 years ago. He was probably sleeping with her back then and maybe even up until he excitedly told you about his "one night stand". He might have told his girlfriend, "I told my wife about us". Expect a call from her real soon. She is probably debating whether to out him or not. Yeah I don't trust cheaters.

[a hole in my bucket]

Definition of cheating:

- you wouldn't do it if your partner was standing there next to you

 

If I am to believe him he would have pursued this even if I was there. Of course there is no way to test his resolve on this , nor do I want to.

[a hole in my bucket]

I'm thinking that he actually (probably dumbly) thought it was still okay.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

My decision is do I ruin my marriage because he was dumb once.

[a hole in my bucket]

are they swingers?

 

Does he have a history of a lot of boneheaded moves?

 

I haven't asked the other couple outright but I would suggest they are in fact swingers given what I now know. They are wonderful people though, they just have bedroom antics that go above and beyond what I am open to.

 

My hubby has been the most supportive caring husband anyone could want. This is the only time he had ever done anything stupid. The worst he has done before this was going to the strippers with some mates. He came home and was scared stiff to tell me. I was perfectly ok with it for the record. It's ok to window shop, not ok to buy.

[a hole in my bucket]

Are you guys flirty with others when together, open-minded about friends whose marriage partners have a fling etc..

 

We are not prudes. We have been to a swingers club before for example nut just to live out a fantasy of being exhibitionists. We did not even touch another person.

 

We both probably flirt but I would hate for anyone to suggest that allowing flirting somehow implies that sex is ok. Not in my world anyway.

[findingnemo]

That's pretty much it.

 

My decision is do I ruin my marriage because he was dumb once.

 

First of all, let me apologize. I oddly enough mixed you up with someone else who refers to her SO as her H but they aren't M. That's why I was all over the place with H, SO and BF. I'm sorry.

 

The question for you both should be whether he is willing and able to adhere to your values of your M? From what has happened, I don't really think there is enough there to warrant a D...just yet. It should boil down to whether he is being sincere or not and whether he truly is a "swinger" (I really don't know what to call this semi-open kind of thinking regarding sex and M) at heart.

 

I would err on the side of M but take this as a big warning that your H may be prone to extra-marital sex. So if it were me, I would consciously decide to forgive him but make it clear that it is unacceptable behaviour and if done again will lead to a D. I just don't see how it would make sense to get a D over this "misunderstanding".

[dreamingoftigers]

That's pretty much it.

 

My decision is do I ruin my marriage because he was dumb once.

 

IMHO, it sounds like he's been dumb for seven years.

 

You just hadn't seen his report card yet!

[a hole in my bucket]

The thing is.... if you ARE going to stay together, and it sounds like maybe he isn't a jerk, that he was just really... really... REALLY dumb... but if you are... you have to have this very long overdue talk. You brought up the strip club, guess what? He didn't know how you were going to react to that either, that tells me you've never had the "These are my dealbreaker" conversation.

It's time to do that. Lay it all out on the table, plain and simple, write it down since he likes lists. I'd suggest counseling as well. Good luck.

 

Thank you for that.

 

I am leaning toward staying together, who am I kidding, I will stay but things must change.

 

He is genuinely sorry, he has said sorry that I am hurting, sorry that we weren't on the same page. He has already committed to never again even considering another person. He has promised to do whatever it takes to fix things.

 

What he wont do is admit he was wrong. He is adamant he only did what was allowed. He wont even consider that some fault lies with him. The best he will concede is that there was a misunderstanding that lead to something terrible. If he had that time again he would clear that misunderstanding. He just wont admit to any fault, he wont say he is wrong. I think that's what I need to hear, not just sorry, buy sorry I was wrong.

 

I don't know why it is such a big hurdle for me but that one thing is holding me back from making an effort to repair the relationship.

 

That's not to say that what he did that night doesn't haunt me, the day he came home with a big smile on his face and told me he had sex with his ex like he was so proud of it will haunt me for a long time but I am strong enough to understand mistakes happen and I believe I can work through that

 

I am just stuck on the stupid need for him to acknowledge fault. I don't even know if it is necessary for most people but I feel deep inside that is what I need to fully accept it was all a misunderstanding. Does that even make sense? Or am I wasting my time waiting and pushing for an admission of being wrong?

[BetrayedH]

Thank you for that.

 

I am leaning toward staying together, who am I kidding, I will stay but things must change.

 

He is genuinely sorry, he has said sorry that I am hurting, sorry that we weren't on the same page. He has already committed to never again even considering another person. He has promised to do whatever it takes to fix things.

 

What he wont do is admit he was wrong. He is adamant he only did what was allowed. He wont even consider that some fault lies with him. The best he will concede is that there was a misunderstanding that lead to something terrible. If he had that time again he would clear that misunderstanding. He just wont admit to any fault, he wont say he is wrong. I think that's what I need to hear, not just sorry, buy sorry I was wrong.

 

I don't know why it is such a big hurdle for me but that one thing is holding me back from making an effort to repair the relationship.

 

That's not to say that what he did that night doesn't haunt me, the day he came home with a big smile on his face and told me he had sex with his ex like he was so proud of it will haunt me for a long time but I am strong enough to understand mistakes happen and I believe I can work through that

 

I am just stuck on the stupid need for him to acknowledge fault. I don't even know if it is necessary for most people but I feel deep inside that is what I need to fully accept it was all a misunderstanding. Does that even make sense? Or am I wasting my time waiting and pushing for an admission of being wrong?

 

I think he needs to acknowledge that he should have contacted you before doing something this potentially harmful rather than pulling out a 7-year-old get-out-of-jail-free card. That was a bonehead move and he should admit that. He was only thinking of himself.

 

I suspect it's going to take marriage counseling to get him to that point. The relationship with you should have been paramount to any stupid 7-year-old bucket list.

[BetrayedH]

That's pretty much it.

 

My decision is do I ruin my marriage because he was dumb once.

 

It wouldn't be you that ruined the marriage. It would be his dumb-ass that prioritized his own desire to screw his ex over his relationship with you.

 

A freakin' text message takes two seconds to send. "Hey honey, it turns out that Suzy is at the party I'm at tonight. Any chance that bucket list is still valid?" Did he do that? Nope. He came home and said, "Hey honey, guess who I screwed this weekend." If he can't admit that was damn idiotic, then you aren't the one with a problem here.

[worldgonewrong]

Apparently these friends don't just "flock" together.

 

They really "flocked" up.