The bucket list has come to haunt me

[a hole in my bucket]

My hubby and I have had a bit of a falling out. He thinks he is in the right (and I can see his point) but I am devastated by what he has done. We have some friends in the same situation and their actions/advice hasn’t helped my cause so I am starting to believe it’s me that is in the wrong. So I am here hoping for some unbiased advice.

 

Basically many years ago my hubby (boyfriend at the time) and I along with another two couples made a bucket list of sorts. We all chose 6 people that we would have free rein to sleep with if the situation every presented itself.

 

It was basically 3 celebs (which would obviously never happen) and 3 people we knew (where the may be a chance). It was all a bit of fun and we all had a giggle at some of the choices.

 

Fast forward 7 years. We are now married, we have 2 children. He has been the best husband, I have never had cause to doubt him.

 

Earlier this year he went away on a ‘boys weekend’. He came home all proud and gloating that he had slept with his ex-girlfriend. I didn’t take it well, I started screaming and throwing stuff and he was pretty much offended by my actions!

 

After I calmed down and we spoke he was adamant that he had done nothing wrong, it was all in writing, he was “allowed” to sleep with her. I can’t believe he kept that piece of paper all these years. He kept mine too!

 

We are still friends with one of the couples from that night and when I spoke to them about it I nearly fell off my chair. They have both ticked some names off their lists! Really? They are still happily together and this has just given my hubby everything he needs to justify himself. He has agreed that we throw the lists away and that we never act on them again but he wont hear a single word about him being wrong.

 

It’s been 5 months now, we are still together but it’s not the same. He is angry at me because I got angry at him and am holding on to the resentment, in his view unjustly so.

 

I’ve been working on him trying to get him to counseling and I believe he may be swayed on that which is a positive. Although he will go into the sessions demanding that he is in the right so it will be a long process.

 

But before I head down that road I want some unbiased opinion. Am I out of line here? We did have an agreement, I thought it was all forgotten about, obviously he didn’t. As he keeps telling me, he only did what I agreed he was allowed to do, I cannot argue with that.

[whichwayisup]

Wait..a minute..You are saying, before you got married, there was this 'bucket list' and he actually truly thought it OK to go do 'whomever' on that bucket list after you two got married and thinks that isn't wrong? Did he hit his head or have brain issues??!!!

But before I head down that road I want some unbiased opinion. Am I out of line here? We did have an agreement, I thought it was all forgotten about, obviously he didn’t. As he keeps telling me, he only did what I agreed he was allowed to do, I cannot argue with that.

 

So he just did it without telling you. Probably because he KNEW you wouldn't let him, even though there was an agreement there, he assumed it was still fair game.

 

He cheated and betrayed you, yet isn't remorseful at all.

 

Sorry but he's acting like a ass.!

What are his consquences to this?

[a hole in my bucket]

Sorry but he's acting like a ass.!

What are his consquences to this?

 

He had been everything a girl could want in a man up to that point.

 

I am probably playing it up a little, he is remorseful that he hurt me, he just doesn't believe that I should be hurt at all because I should have known it could have happened. And I always had the opportunity to act on the list myself according to him, not me of course.

 

The biggest killer was speaking to the other couple that I am still in shock about. They are dear friends and I value their opinion, to find out they they both had used the list more than once was a real kick in the guts. They both believe I am overreacting which I just dont get?

 

Looking forward I can't see any hurdles, he will not do it again, I truly believe that. He will basically go back to the loving supportive husband that he has always been. My problem is that I will always know and I don't think I can let it go.

[findingnemo]

Wow... I feel so sorry for your pain. The things we do when young have a funny way of manifesting crap in later years.

 

Have you ever, since making the lists, discussed them again? How did he find his ex? Had they kept in touch? Surely he couldn't have just called her up and she willingly sleeps with him?

 

I'm trying to figure out how much planning went into this. The key may lie there.

[BeholdtheMan]

Basically many years ago my hubby (boyfriend at the time) and I along with another two couples made a bucket list of sorts. We all chose 6 people that we would have free rein to sleep with if the situation every presented itself.

 

It was basically 3 celebs (which would obviously never happen) and 3 people we knew (where the may be a chance). It was all a bit of fun and we all had a giggle at some of the choices.

Two questions

 

Would you have banged someone on this "bucket list" if the opportunity had presented itself?

 

Would your husband be OK with it?

[a hole in my bucket]

Have you ever, since making the lists, discussed them again? How did he find his ex? Had they kept in touch? Surely he couldn't have just called her up and she willingly sleeps with him?

 

In the couple of years after they were written there was often reference made to them, in a joking manner though (or so I thought). Nothing since then.

 

Apparently they met by coincidence. I don't doubt his honesty here, the trip was arranged by others and my hubby was only a last minute inclusion, he had originally said no.

 

The story goes, they bumped into each other, had a few too many drinks, she tried to kiss him and he said no, then 'pop' a light goes off and he realises he is allowed to pursue this..... the rest I really don't want to think about, it make me sick in the stomach.

[a hole in my bucket]

Would you have banged someone on this "bucket list" if the opportunity had presented itself?

 

Would your husband be OK with it?

 

The honest answer is that before we were married I may have. I could never be sure because I was never in that situation. Now that I am married there would be no chance.

 

He has said that he would have been fine if I had done it. That's a pretty easy thing to say considering I didn't and wont in the future.

[Janesays]

I'm a woman who stayed with a cheater for a number of years.

 

What did I learn? NEVER AGAIN.

 

And at least my cheater PRETENDED to apologize.

 

In your case, I'd walk. I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you wanted validation or someone to tell you that he was 'justified' and it was OK for you to 'just get over it.' But all I can tell you is speak to an attorney and maybe next time, don't marry a moron. That's what I ended up doing and now I couldn't be happier.

 

PS: I'd drop the other couple as 'friends' too. What classy people they are. *gag

[BetrayedH]

If I valued my marriage more than a roll in the hay with an ex, I sure as hell would've checked in with my wife before relying on some ancient paper from when we were dating to ensure I didn't end up divorced.

 

I also don't buy the accidental meeting and hookup story.

 

Anyone on your bucketlist you feel like checking off? I'm sure your husband won't be angry when you tell him in great detail how many great orgasms you were able to provide to one of your ex-boyfriends this weekend, where he finished, and how many positions you tried out.

 

Obviously, your H needs to learn about empathy (like if the shoe were on the other foot) and how to have honest and open communication with his wife during THIS decade.

[a hole in my bucket]

In your case, I'd walk. I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you wanted validation or someone to tell you that he was 'justified' and it was OK for you to 'just get over it.'

 

I'm not sure what I want. I know I don't want to lose my marriage but I fear it's already over no matter how hard I try.

 

I think I have been confused by the show of support to him. I haven't told many people but of those that I have it's about 50-50 as to whether he was in the wrong. I guess I am just questioning myself because of others attitudes towards this.

[a hole in my bucket]

Anyone on your bucketlist you feel like checking off?

 

One of my list was a next door neighbour. He was a really shy boy and used to watch me sunbake and swim in the pool from behind his blinds in his window. I used to get quite turned on by it rather than creeped out.

 

He has grown into a hunk of a man and we are really close friends, my husband is a little jealous of him.

 

I know if I wanted to that we could hook up but I am better than that. I am not going to sell myself for a revenge **** and possibly lose the friendship as well as my marriage.

[Janesays]

I'm not sure what I want. I know I don't want to lose my marriage but I fear it's already over no matter how hard I try.

 

I think I have been confused by the show of support to him. I haven't told many people but of those that I have it's about 50-50 as to whether he was in the wrong. I guess I am just questioning myself because of others attitudes towards this.

 

 

Well, if these are your friends and you are OK with their values being a little....off....so be it. But their life is not YOUR life. I'm going to tell you that maybe some people WOULD agree with him. But I don't. And it appears that neither do you. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Are you not entitled to your opinion and your very valid feelings just because some 'friend' holds a different point of view?

 

Maybe pack up and go off by yourself for a week. Rent a cabin at a resort or something. Unwind, think, soul search. Get away from the marital and, in your case, peer pressure. I know that's going to cost money, but I think in the end, it will be well worth it.

 

You need to get everyone else's voice out of your head so you can hear your own. Go somewhere relaxing and peaceful and try to figure out for yourself if YOU can deal with this, live with this, and forgive this.

 

Realize that there is NO SHAME if that answer is yes or no. But this is YOUR LIFE and you have to make your own decision here. I just don't want to see you throw away years with a man you can no longer be happy with.....when you can be out meeting a man who would NEVER do this to you.

[BetrayedH]

One of my list was a next door neighbour. He was a really shy boy and used to watch me sunbake and swim in the pool from behind his blinds in his window. I used to get quite turned on by it rather than creeped out.

 

He has grown into a hunk of a man and we are really close friends, my husband is a little jealous of him.

 

I know if I wanted to that we could hook up but I am better than that. I am not going to sell myself for a revenge **** and possibly lose the friendship as well as my marriage.

 

Trust me, it wasn't a legit suggestion. Your H needs to put himself in your shoes. It's easy for him to say that he'd be find with it. The reality of it would be something different entirely, especially if you had (hypothetically) done things with another man that you haven't or refused to do with your H. He would have lost his freaking mind if you pulled out some paper to justify it. I think a key problem if you choose to stay with him is his lack of empathy.

 

I also think there's way too much credence being given to this piece of paper from when you were dating. You've since made a much more significant agreement with one another which rendered that paper null and void - it was your marital agreement. If yours was anything like mine, you took vows of fidelity in front of your God with about 100 of your best friends and family as witnesses in a well-rehearsed ceremony with a lot of pomp and circumstance to highlight the commitment and I suspect it was all recognized and legally ratified by your government. I think that trumps some stupid bucket list paper from before you were married. Quit buying this crap. If your H truly had a free pass, YOU would be the first to know it.

[Janesays]

I also think there's way too much credence being given to this piece of paper from when you were dating. You've since made a much more significant agreement with one another which rendered that paper null and void - it was your marital agreement. If yours was anything like mine, you took vows of fidelity in front of your God with about 100 of your best friends and family as witnesses in a well-rehearsed ceremony with a lot of pomp and circumstance to highlight the commitment and I suspect it was all recognized and legally ratified by your government. I think that trumps some stupid bucket list paper from before you were married.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

[a hole in my bucket]

Unwind, think, soul search.

 

I have done so much soul searching that I fear any more is just going to add to my confusion.

 

I would love to be able to get in his head and know what he was thinking at the time. Whether it was, "oh boy, I'll have a great story to tell my wife" or "I can get away with this if I use the list as an excuse".

 

I honestly believe it is the former, he sees absolutely nothing wrong with what he did (well he does now, but at the time he didn't). He came home and told me, he could have said nothing and I never would have known. It lends weight to it being an honest mistake.

 

But if it was just an honest mistake where does that leave me? I don't want to lose the man I love over an honest mistake, but on the other hand, he had sex with another woman. I think I can forgive that if I'm sure it was a mistake but I don't think I could ever forget. The images are always going to pop in my head, during an argument it will probably come up. They say when you truly forgive you have to let it go, I don't think I am strong enough to do that.

 

Even if it was an honest mistake I think our marriage is doomed. And what a heartbreaking way to end a marriage because of a misunderstanding. Anything else, anything, I could move on but this is just to much for me.

 

I know you said ignore what others say/think but is it truly that prevalent amongst other couples that no-one is shocked by this?

[SmokeRat]

We are all shocked by infidelity.

 

It's a horrible thing, destructive, consuming.

 

Regardless of some 'bucket list' made ages ago, a mature, grown man would have the common sense (it isn't that common), to realize it was a silly thing to even consider.

[a hole in my bucket]

I also think there's way too much credence being given to this piece of paper from when you were dating. You've since made a much more significant agreement with one another which rendered that paper null and void - it was your marital agreement.

 

Just to be clear, although I don't believe it makes any difference, we are only defacto married (not legally married but living as though we are).

[Janesays]

 

I know you said ignore what others say/think but is it truly that prevalent amongst other couples that no-one is shocked by this?

 

He ll to the no it's not a 'prevalent' thing! Personally, I think you just happen to be friends with a few unsavory characters. But in my circle, he'd be socially crucified for this nonsense.

[a hole in my bucket]

I think you just happen to be friends with a few unsavory characters.

 

I'm not sure I would classify them in that way. They are open and honest with each other and if they are happy to open their marriage to others well more power to them, it's not my scene but I wont judge. I am more concerned that she kept this a secret from me for so long, she is supposed to be my best friend.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

My hubby and I have had a bit of a falling out. He thinks he is in the right (and I can see his point) but I am devastated by what he has done. We have some friends in the same situation and their actions/advice hasn’t helped my cause so I am starting to believe it’s me that is in the wrong. So I am here hoping for some unbiased advice.

 

Basically many years ago my hubby (boyfriend at the time) and I along with another two couples made a bucket list of sorts. We all chose 6 people that we would have free rein to sleep with if the situation every presented itself.

 

It was basically 3 celebs (which would obviously never happen) and 3 people we knew (where the may be a chance). It was all a bit of fun and we all had a giggle at some of the choices.

 

Fast forward 7 years. We are now married, we have 2 children. He has been the best husband, I have never had cause to doubt him.

 

Earlier this year he went away on a ‘boys weekend’. He came home all proud and gloating that he had slept with his ex-girlfriend. I didn’t take it well, I started screaming and throwing stuff and he was pretty much offended by my actions!

 

After I calmed down and we spoke he was adamant that he had done nothing wrong, it was all in writing, he was “allowed” to sleep with her. I can’t believe he kept that piece of paper all these years. He kept mine too!

 

We are still friends with one of the couples from that night and when I spoke to them about it I nearly fell off my chair. They have both ticked some names off their lists! Really? They are still happily together and this has just given my hubby everything he needs to justify himself. He has agreed that we throw the lists away and that we never act on them again but he wont hear a single word about him being wrong.

 

It’s been 5 months now, we are still together but it’s not the same. He is angry at me because I got angry at him and am holding on to the resentment, in his view unjustly so.

 

I’ve been working on him trying to get him to counseling and I believe he may be swayed on that which is a positive. Although he will go into the sessions demanding that he is in the right so it will be a long process.

 

But before I head down that road I want some unbiased opinion. Am I out of line here? We did have an agreement, I thought it was all forgotten about, obviously he didn’t. As he keeps telling me, he only did what I agreed he was allowed to do, I cannot argue with that.

 

I bolded the parts that jumped out at me. The reaction of your husband your friends is offensive.

 

In essence, a silly agreement made 7 years ago while single trumps your marriage and you as a person. This peice of paper is regarded with more respect than you.

 

Here's what is most disturbing for me. He saw this agreement as a get-out-of-jail-free-card and kept it until he could cash it in. It is opportunistic and calculating. Now he is being self-righteous after committing adultery.

 

In my opinion, anyone who would use this bucket list does not value or respect their marriage or spouse. Then your husband comes home to boast and pulls out his trump card. That is mind blowing.

[findingnemo]

Since you're not M, I think you both have to have a new discussion about your values as individuals and as a couple. Personally, I would find it hard to end the R since there was an agreement which has not been superceded by M vows or any other promises. And yet...it isn't something to overlook.

 

Let's break it down. You both wrote a bucket list years ago. He fulfilled one of those wishes. You knew of the wish but had forgotten about it. As time past, your values and your view of your R changed. Did his? So you think he is still into that kind of lifestyle - free for all whatever as long as it is agreed upon? Is he willing to commit to not having extra-marital sex ever?

 

If he agrees to commit to your view of the R, then I think you both can work this out. If not, then you need to decide what to do. Stay and accept it or leave.

 

As for those "open" friends, they will become a problem in the future if you both decide to be monogamous. You know how they say "Birds...flock together?" You need to have friends with the same value system who will help build your R up. Otherwise you'll find yourself involved in things you don't like.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Just to be clear, although I don't believe it makes any difference, we are only defacto married (not legally married but living as though we are).

 

Why haven't you two gotten married? I would think that this would play a large role in this situation.

[NotCamelot]

Forgiving is easy, forgetting is hard.

 

It sounds as though you want to stay with him. If that is the case, you have to give it time and find ways to get it to the back of your mind. It is NOT easy, not at all. And you will never forget. Either you can live with it or you can't. That's what you have to figure out.

 

BUT......he came home and immediately told you what he did. It sounds like he thought you'd be fine with it. He must have really believed that. There is no cheater I have ever heard of that did that. The first thing they do is conceal. If they tell like your husband did, there is usually no chance of more encounters. They usually want more, at least for a while. He told you.

 

Give him credit for that. He did not hide it. I think he actually thought it was ok.

 

That is the basic thing. Why did it happen? Fix that. Move on. Either together or apart.

 

But it does sound like his attitude needs improving. He really needs to understand your pain. Refusing to acknowledge that only makes things worse for you. If he wants you to allow him to be your husband he needs to change his attitude toward your pain.

[a hole in my bucket]

Why haven't you two gotten married? I would think that this would play a large role in this situation.

 

I have never seen the need for it. I still love him, I have given everything I have and everything I am to him. I expected it was reciprocated by him. We own a house together, we have two children together, would a piece of paper really make a difference?

 

Maybe it has played a part? Maybe marriage vows would have superseded the bucket list. No marriage vows the list still stands?

 

That's a pretty lame excuse though if that is what he is thinking.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I have never seen the need for it. I still love him, I have given everything I have and everything I am to him. I expected it was reciprocated by him. We own a house together, we have two children together, would a piece of paper really make a difference?

 

Maybe it has played a part? Maybe marriage vows would have superseded the bucket list. No marriage vows the list still stands?

 

That's a pretty lame excuse though if that is what he is thinking.

 

I was just wondering if there were any underlying issues with commitment and fidelity on his part (or yours).

 

I don't know your partner, so I'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who has spent many session in MC and IC. Obviously there is a disconnect between the two on your relationship and what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Why would he think his actions were acceptable and not hurt you?