Steen719 Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 I thought I would clarify what I was talking about in the other thread. XH cheated the 1st time back in 1997 with an old “friend” and then 2011 with another old gf. However, she knew that I knew and she became frightened that I would tell or maybe she just decided he was too intense – he did ask her to marry him…..ummm….he was already married and so was she. Oh well…such a little obstacle. I told him I was divorcing him and he continued to talk to her while he told me he did not want a divorce. He was routinely online with other women, trying to work something up, all of the while telling me he did not want a divorce. He even tried to get my son to tell me to stay with him and my son told him that he wanted me to be happy (and not be with his dad). During this time, XH also starting talking to a new old friend and he began seeing her. We were close to a divorce, but he was still asking me not to divorce him, despite the fact that he had started up with her (I was watching with k/l). So, I left…it was hard and I don’t ever want to repeat it. I think you know the background with him having a liver transplant and how I took care of him and we went into huge debt b/c he couldn’t work. Despite that, I cried and cried. 22 years and in the 3 years preceding this, he had been ill, hospitalized 3 times, my brother died, we were in danger of losing house. God, what an awful time that was. He and the gf went hot and heavy. He wouldn’t let me have house to pay for while we sold it, but he was never there. He told me later that they fought all of the time and that he had paid for several moving trucks and didn’t move. Sigh.. he also told me later that he was paying half of her mortgage while I was struggling to pay my son’s rent in college and working 2 jobs and that he also put the new stainless steel kitchen appliances in her house and put her old appliances in our house. He got those back, but at this point, who cares? So, he is filing BK and will have no debts; I am filing chapter 13 (because I work 2 jobs – although I may not be hired back due to budget problems) and will be paying off debt for 5 years, but not the house. That’s OK, I owe it, so I am supposed to pay it. He and gf broke up and he came back around –“I miss you, I miss my family, I really screwed up, I don’t know how to make it better, what can I do?” I explained that I was not really angry at him anymore, but wasn’t really certain that I could be his friend, either. I tried, though, and while he was over helping me with my yard, he told me that he was talking to the ex gf frequently, so I’m guessing he was hedging his bets. I told him to leave and that he should call her and get back if she would have him. Then mother’s day, he shows up with a dozen roses and a card. Last year he didn’t know I was alive. He is screwed up – cries all of the time he is with me. I feel for him, he is the father of my son and I had good years with him. I hate to see anyone in that much pain. I have been there. But, I have moved forward with my life and do not ever want to go backwards into that abyss again. I felt like I was drowning. Sadly, I think he has some character issues that he has always had. Even the 2nd old gf had issues with him doing this almost 30 years ago. He has so many good qualities, but is a habitual liar. Sometimes I envy those who stick it out through thick and thin and keep trying to make it work. I don’t really want to be alone forever, but I am not sure I have it in me to go through something like this again. But, I am not unhappy and my character has always been upbeat and optimistic, so I think I’ll be fine. More than you wanted to know, I’m sure, but I did not want to thread/jack any more than I had. It has sounded like you are not as settled as you were before. Are you OK?
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 someone with a brain. i think its a question of going backwards or, recovering what you lost and actually building a foundation for it. i dont think hes hedging his bets. he f'ed up. he did. YES SIR. now i think he really wants to get back with you but if he cant have that he keeps her astray. to be honest he may or may not have been talking to this gf..... he might have tried his hand at a bad act of trying to get you jealous. to be honest i dont know. you have to evaluate. just remember sometimes its not going backwards but moving in a direction at the time you both didnt. if your envious of sticking it out, you may want to try just be guarded and make the ultimatum because your worth it. he comes back into your life, NO CHEATING. the first hint of it hes out. get it in writing. if hes honest about getting back with you he will sign it. then work where you lost. key in on making a foundation. one that will hold eachother, not fall into itself. tell him you willtake time to date him again and you will be considering if its worth your time. enjoy yourself if nothing else and pay attention to what hes doing. tell him you want him to show you his phone. earn his way back into your heart. etc, etc etc. its your level of feelings at this time. and remember if you fell out of love you can again, with him. you did it the first time. its your pace. you either want him in your life or you dont. i cant couensel you on a decision but maybe, it could be beneficial if he turns it all around and you listen and see changes. a man who comes back does think your speicial.
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Kid plenty of people give the children the talk and etc etc. but stop it from happening. Tell them also that alot of couple want a divorce now adays but the truly happy ones are those who stick around to have better times because they get to.why argue when you can be at a concer ttoghether. to be the heros. etc etc. get their minds on track.
Author Steen719 Posted May 28, 2013 Author Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Oh thanks, simpleoldschool, I appreciate you answering, but I really do not want to go back with him. He cheated on me (at least) with 2 other women and he lied about it. He did not fess up, I caught him both times and then he lied despite my telling him what I knew. He never told me the truth; I told him and he did not disagree. I cared for him, imagine how sick he would have been before a transplant, worked non-stop for over a year, and I mean all of the time, and he found an old gf on fb while I was working day and night. I work anyway, I just mean more than I had been. My son is 22; he loves his dad, but has very few illusions about his behavior and saw how things were. XH has a history of looking over his shoulder and seeing something better, habitually dissatisfied. My envy is for those couples who have good reasons to think it might work. I forgave him for the first; I have no desire to go a third time. I think I know the probabilities there. The best I can offer is compassion. Anyway, I had answered something when talking to dreamingot in another thread and so I was sort of clarifying what I meant. Thank you, though. I do appreciate you answering. Edited May 28, 2013 by Steen719 5
trippi1432 Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 I think that all cheaters have regrets and want or wonder about what might have been if they had just tried harder or stuck it out. I know both of my exH's think about it, have said things to me in the past two years that I know they do. Both are married, both are not always happy, but going back to the past that obviously wasn't good for them in some way or another for them to cheat is not the way to resolve what they are currently unhappy about either in their current marriages. Like Steen, I don't want to be alone forever either; however, I won't lower my morals, values or standards to take back what wasn't working. I'll keep a "special place in my heart" (as one of my exH's told me) as they were my history, we have children together, there was a time that we loved each other. But, this is now MY future, and in that it's finding someone who does have the mindset that they want to stick it out through thick and thin and you know they are worth it as much as you are. 4
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 not that i beilieve you are wrong, but there is always a way to handle things. regret can transform people. now what i say next i dont want you to get upset. please take is stricly as an observation. with you working and im going to hate saying this but its because of how i fealt when my ex-wife did. these are feelings remebered not feelings i have and i dont want what i just said to contribute to YOUR situation. he fealt alone. in marriage you must carry everything, not you but both people. work, children, eachother. it seems apparent to me we neglect some areas at different times. and thats where things go crazy and we live for the sparce moments inbetween. When that devil of a women was working, thats all she did. i cleaned the house took care of the kid and did everything in advance preparation until she got home. this was after a few things that she did that contributed to the loss of my job. being lonely creates a need for intimacy. for him he made a mistake. A MAN MISTAKE. i know you say you dont want him. which you may not but find out what you really want. atleast give him a chance. chances are after his operation and this is not justification. a persons choice is their own. thats accountability. he fealt some things he normally wouldnt. you were working he didnt feel like a man and you were gone so his want outweighed his good and better judgement. sometimes the man below has a way of taking over. again not justification bu the feelings come. ive had them but never acted on them. its a struggle and he wasnt in a condition, MAYBE to make good choices. atleast talk with him. asked him why. get some closure. dont take a BS answer. ask him to take responsibility and then tell him how he knows he can avoid it if you ever did get back with him. guage his answer. its all up to you. i know if a person cheated on me i wouldnt have a problem, really. i know my self-worth and that what they did was wrong. if they can admit it, in time, i will let it go and monitor them. cheaters arent always cheaters. any habit can be broken and in good reason. TO BE VERY HONEST. married men want to only sleep with their wife. its the feelings and the situation that have grave consequences of a mistake made. if anything ask him if he truly wanted to sleep with those women. he might tell you alot of things. i dont know mam, im just trying to share if you care to investiagte.
TaraMaiden Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 You're kidding.... right?? She already gave him 2 chances plus 30 years' marriage. Then he comes back to her, all roses and romance - and he's STILL talking to the ex!! And you honestly believe she should still bend over backwards for this man to give him yet another chance...?!? Er.... No. Most definitely not. Absolutely, definitely not. 9
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 TARA-maiden you and forgiveness have a problem i didnt know forgiveness served in boundaries of limitation.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 TARA-maiden you and forgiveness have a problem i didnt know forgiveness served in boundaries of limitation. While forgiveness may not have limits, tolerance and patience do. Only a fool would set themselves up to be betrayed 3 times...by the same person..in the same relationship... Mr. Lucky 7
TaraMaiden Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Of course it does - when the boundaries involve self-preservation, they have to! If a woman is with a man who beats her senseless, she may well forgive, but I hardly think you would be urging her to let him back in and to give him 'another chance'! It's precisely the same situation here, except that the ex-H has psychologically beaten her round the head with lying, infidelity, and emotional abuse throughout their marriage. She is clearly exhausted by his dysfunctional behaviour. And you honestly believe she can ever get into the mental state now, where she should even consider giving him another chance? That wouldn't be forgiveness. That would be foolish masochism. 7
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 i will come to a place to actually agree for once. one should always understand someone beating someone senseless...yeah thats not love. thats called torture. to be honest most people like that should lose whatever hand they raised. as for the rest of your post, i dont know if i agree tottaly since the whole "beating" isnt involved here. unless i missed that.
TaraMaiden Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 mental abuse has been shown in all cases to be far more pervasive and damaging than physical abuse. Bruises heal. mental scars take far longer to heal. if indeed, they ever do. 5
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 hmmm im carefull in weighing a measure of mental abuse. first it would have to have a perpatrator with intentions to cause mental trauma to a degree that is psychologically detrimental. personal... i dont know id have to weigh that prudently. that has context variables. not saying this OP hasnt suffered such. but, simply out of suggestion that possibility/impossibility of the same result happening a third time. i cant say for sure. Im simple. if someones honestly sorry ill forgive them. except hurtin mom and pops and broskie. or if i had a kid. then maybe i might be more, territorial.
TaraMaiden Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) hmmm im carefull in weighing a measure of mental abuse. first it would have to have a perpatrator with intentions to cause mental trauma to a degree that is psychologically detrimental. Not at all. Far from it. A perpetrator of any form of abuse doesn't care what his intentions are, with regard to the effect on the abused. All they care is about themselves. The abuse they inflict is not measured at all. That's why it's abuse. because they frankly don't give any level of a damn about the other person. And, 'honestly sorry' is the operative term. The Op's ex is anything but. That's demonstrable through his actions. Which always, without exception, 'speak' far more loudly than words. Edited May 28, 2013 by TaraMaiden 3
KathyM Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 By all means forgive him, but understand that he is a very broken man who doesn't know what he wants, and can't be trusted to be faithful. It sounds like that surgery swung him into some serious mid-life crisis, of which he still has not recovered. I think it would be a mistake to invest more time and invest your heart into someone like this who is so messed up. 5
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 I think ill level here to agree with what you said if not in total. However in the mind that entertains the law, INTENT is a large part of such a thing. as far as abusers go. i knew one. I sought approval with constant rejection. i dont understand the mentality maybe you know more than i do about this matter. However i dont sit on the bus society does and label abuse, in every circumstance. Abuse is a word tossed around, when people simply get uncomfortable. That is ridiculous. I will agree the abuser doesnt have a level or degree. its boundless, thats why its also chornic. however a marital argument is considered verbal abuse. Heck, i had to laugh at the lady that if you raise your tone of voice you verbally abused someone. Thats bs. if by the same standard im suffering a form of abuse by feeling uncomfortable enough to yell. something has to be defined, concisely not vaguely. now. for reasons of everyones interest thats all ill entertain here.
WreckedDan Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Gotta side with Tara on this one, bringing soneone flowers while still with another woman proves he isn't repentant. Just my 2© Dan PS the exH sounds like a douche 3
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 well as its explained in the OP, then i agree also. Howver i dont know if it was done to make the OP jealous to gain a leverage of interest that he lost. that intertaining a possibility. i try to give things the benefit of the doubt. And just so the OP doesnt think i dont know what im talking about. MANNNN one of the girls i was with i didnt find out about what she did until way later. but it didnt hurt, just meant she wasnt my girl. I heard some stories man, some CRAZY stories and i laughed afterword. p.s. I dont know whether i agree of dont. i seem to be in the mental state of forgiveness tonight. i dont want to engage in bitter feelings. The last couple of days wooooowiiiieee man my mind was crazy. thats probably because ive been drinking with friends.2 of which got me upset. when a childs involved i make a few considerations.
aisuru Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 well as its explained in the OP, then i agree also. Howver i dont know if it was done to make the OP jealous to gain a leverage of interest that he lost. that intertaining a possibility. i try to give things the benefit of the doubt. And just so the OP doesnt think i dont know what im talking about. MANNNN one of the girls i was with i didnt find out about what she did until way later. but it didnt hurt, just meant she wasnt my girl. I heard some stories man, some CRAZY stories and i laughed afterword. p.s. I dont know whether i agree of dont. i seem to be in the mental state of forgiveness tonight. i dont want to engage in bitter feelings. The last couple of days wooooowiiiieee man my mind was crazy. thats probably because ive been drinking with friends.2 of which got me upset. when a childs involved i make a few considerations. Uhhh, how many girls were you with at that time? Do you mind if I ask what country you live in? Because I just do not understand your thought processes and I'd like to get some background info to hopefully try and understand. OP, I do not envy you. I cannot imagine forgiving somebody in the situation you were in. I wish you all the best.
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Ill say it like this. The OP is in full range of any commited decision. that being the case my intent was while the right was reserved to her, to investiagte the level of what she viewed as quit possibly a reconciliation, if possible. Since it was stated that was not the case, the conversation assumed a discourse. That being the case, simply while maintaining certain principles i probed to see her interest in reconciliation. BECAUSE of this statement. "Sometimes I envy those who stick it out through thick and thin and keep trying to make it work." with that being the case, disregarding the preliminary half of the post i ventured and suggested possible CONSIDERATIONS. i only read what information is provided, Not what i cant see and i make quite possible assumptions. If the man wanted to remain in the relationship and not entertain getting back toghether with his EX-wife then i dont think he would have showed up to the doorstep. i was only suggesting at the comfort level of the op, if the range of possibility allowed she considered what i made in my statements. in regard to this "Oh thanks, simpleoldschool, I appreciate you answering" after declining my initial inquiry and suggestion, by the way in which she worded it i responded with this. "not that i beilieve you are wrong, but there is always a way to handle things. regret can transform people." i find it entertaining i have become a class A felon for making suggestions ;x i should have started IF i could say something as with my regular posts. To aisuru to entertain a portion of your post, regardless of whether or not you understand.circumstances-limited, in your own life providing only relative-expierience and me having to adress matters that involved peoples lives i would say this. WHATEVER floats your boat or sinks it. if you sink it ill watch, by all means. the discourse about abuse, was non-relative in the ways it was described since it didnt pertain to any expierience in-line with the OP.I didnt hear about any beatings, unless again i missed it. Im here to make suggestions. when i start making demands than get mad and upset. But until then, relax its an OPEN forumn gents and ladies. no reason to turn it into a war zone. If the OP could forgive and forget, forgive and forget. i never demanded a reconciliation just prompted a possible outcome. you guys man, seriously need to slow your roll.:lmao::lmao: also, if someone can regret something they have a working Conscience. The man apologized. So what do you do, cast further judgement? you guys really get bent out of shape. how many things have you all done you regret. dont cast judgements. i NON-judgementally suggested something. so go kick rocks yo. man you guys are sharks. Edited May 28, 2013 by Simpleoldschool
aisuru Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 To aisuru to entertain a portion of your post, regardless of whether or not you understand.circumstances-limited, in your own life providing only relative-expierience and me having to adress matters that involved peoples lives i would say this. WHATEVER floats your boat or sinks it. if you sink it ill watch, by all means. I'm not really sure which portion of my post this answers. Perhaps you could expound on this. OP, I wish you well. You'll know what is right for you. That is all that matters.
Simpleoldschool Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Im hanging this one up and putting it in the closet.
dreamingoftigers Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 I thought I would clarify what I was talking about in the other thread. XH cheated the 1st time back in 1997 with an old “friend” and then 2011 with another old gf. However, she knew that I knew and she became frightened that I would tell or maybe she just decided he was too intense – he did ask her to marry him…..ummm….he was already married and so was she. Oh well…such a little obstacle. I told him I was divorcing him and he continued to talk to her while he told me he did not want a divorce. He was routinely online with other women, trying to work something up, all of the while telling me he did not want a divorce. He even tried to get my son to tell me to stay with him and my son told him that he wanted me to be happy (and not be with his dad). During this time, XH also starting talking to a new old friend and he began seeing her. We were close to a divorce, but he was still asking me not to divorce him, despite the fact that he had started up with her (I was watching with k/l). So, I left…it was hard and I don’t ever want to repeat it. I think you know the background with him having a liver transplant and how I took care of him and we went into huge debt b/c he couldn’t work. Despite that, I cried and cried. 22 years and in the 3 years preceding this, he had been ill, hospitalized 3 times, my brother died, we were in danger of losing house. God, what an awful time that was. He and the gf went hot and heavy. He wouldn’t let me have house to pay for while we sold it, but he was never there. He told me later that they fought all of the time and that he had paid for several moving trucks and didn’t move. Sigh.. he also told me later that he was paying half of her mortgage while I was struggling to pay my son’s rent in college and working 2 jobs and that he also put the new stainless steel kitchen appliances in her house and put her old appliances in our house. He got those back, but at this point, who cares? So, he is filing BK and will have no debts; I am filing chapter 13 (because I work 2 jobs – although I may not be hired back due to budget problems) and will be paying off debt for 5 years, but not the house. That’s OK, I owe it, so I am supposed to pay it. He and gf broke up and he came back around –“I miss you, I miss my family, I really screwed up, I don’t know how to make it better, what can I do?” I explained that I was not really angry at him anymore, but wasn’t really certain that I could be his friend, either. I tried, though, and while he was over helping me with my yard, he told me that he was talking to the ex gf frequently, so I’m guessing he was hedging his bets. I told him to leave and that he should call her and get back if she would have him. Then mother’s day, he shows up with a dozen roses and a card. Last year he didn’t know I was alive. He is screwed up – cries all of the time he is with me. I feel for him, he is the father of my son and I had good years with him. I hate to see anyone in that much pain. I have been there. But, I have moved forward with my life and do not ever want to go backwards into that abyss again. I felt like I was drowning. Sadly, I think he has some character issues that he has always had. Even the 2nd old gf had issues with him doing this almost 30 years ago. He has so many good qualities, but is a habitual liar. Sometimes I envy those who stick it out through thick and thin and keep trying to make it work. I don’t really want to be alone forever, but I am not sure I have it in me to go through something like this again. But, I am not unhappy and my character has always been upbeat and optimistic, so I think I’ll be fine. More than you wanted to know, I’m sure, but I did not want to thread/jack any more than I had. It has sounded like you are not as settled as you were before. Are you OK? Oh cool, a thread with my name on it. Hi Steen, I'm sorry you went through so much garbage. How disappointing But you sound much happier now. You sound more assured and really, really over him and his BS. I am a little unsettled. I really am. It is okayish.... but not quite as well as I had hoped. The intimacy hasn't picked up as much as I'd like. And now that I am on the Wellbutrin (although cutting back to discontinue) we scrap a lot. Just in the last couple of days, we seem to be getting on the same page. It's been so tough. I have just three months left of school after a year invested. sigh. so much stress. I really want us to get to the brain clinic, but the finances as of yet just aren't there. He's willing to go and get a polygraph but the money that we had just marked out just had to go for expenses. Sigh. Our little daughter just turned four.:love: She's great! Today is our eighth anniversary of the day that we met, tomorrow is our seventh of the day we got married. I just didn't think that we would be.....here. Ironically today I got a letter in the mail auditing the two years of separation we've been filing. We have great documentation for the first year, but when we fought to get our daughter back, he moved back here, but I rented him the lower part of the up and down suites (to work on recon and so he could be close to his daughter). I am not even sure if the government will accept that now, I am so stressed because that means if they rule that we are not separated over the last two years, I might lose my school funding and have to repay a whole bunch of it. Ugh. So close to being done with my prerequisites too! I hope that you keep doing well. And yes, he isn't demonstrating anything worth thinking twice about. Especially after such a long investment. He needs something, but more of your time is not it.
WreckedDan Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Gotta side with Tara on this one, bringing soneone flowers while still with another woman proves he isn't repentant. Just my 2© Dan PS the exH sounds like a douche 3
dreamingoftigers Posted May 28, 2013 Posted May 28, 2013 Gotta side with Tara on this one, bringing soneone flowers while still with another woman proves he isn't repentant. Just my 2© Dan PS the exH sounds like a douche There must be an echo in here.
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