marrying for love, money, a combination?

[LittleTiger]

You did say "most" cases, which means that you realize that there are some situations where the cost of the gift makes a difference. Again, thank you for your lesson. I choose to define Love Languages in a way that makes sense for me and my marriage. Hope that makes sense.

 

For example, if my husband only spent $300 on my engagement ring, I would not have felt loved because that would have shown that he doesn't think I am worth the cost of a nicer ring.

 

For special occasions, I don't think a cheap drugstore gift is appropriate, unless we are talking about a sentimental card. I would never do such a thing to anyone I care about. My ex only wanted to spend ten dollars on me at Christmas and I thought that was tacky. He could have spent more and yes, if it was a special book I would have been happier.

 

We're getting off topic now but, from what you say in this post, I think point b) in my previous post describes your interpretation of 'receiving gifts'. That is, the value of the gift is directly proportional to your perceived worth in the eyes if the 'giver'. So I think we're actually in agreement here

 

In 'love language' terms it's how the gift makes you 'feel' that's important and not the cost of the gift although, for you, the two are clearly connected. Fortunately, this isn't the case for most people. If it was, there would be a lot of people at the lower end of the financial scale who would spend their entire lives feeling unloved.

 

I presume then that if your husband had only been able to afford a $300 ring you would not have married him - because he wouldn't have had the means to make you feel loved? If the OP has the same values then you're definitely right, she needs to marry someone with money. I think she's gone now though.

[Ninja'sHusband]

That is true, Carrie. But the idea of going into an M with zero butterflies is a bad one. Smoky needs to find a way to make guy #2 work or leave them both and wait to meet one with most of the things she needs.

 

And still, the butterflies are priceless. While they may disappear, they tend to come back...and disappear again...and come back. That's love.

 

But if she's the kind who will start to consider other men because of money...I agree with Carrie's original response, which was don't marry either of them.

 

After reading "His Needs Her Needs" I finally accepted that for women money is a common requirement for love. I think my wife would have left me 7 years earlier if I hadn't been well off. She was that kind of wonderful

[smoky eyes]

I'm back, and I've been thinking about the money thing. In my case it's certainly not about the price of gifts--well, who doesn't like to receive something expensive now and again, but I'd rather have a cheap engagement ring and spend the difference on a vacation, for example. I think I'm thinking of the money in terms of freedom.

 

For example, my ex, in an effort to get over me if I don't go back to him, has gone off to another country for a few months (sounds extreme, but that was our lifestyle). I have to admit I'm jealous, thinking of all the new experiences he's having, and also because with the financial security that comes from having a well paid job, you can do these things sometimes. Travel and experiences are very important to me, and this is what I'm scared of losing out on. The other guy has promised we can travel, move to my country, whatever I want, but I know what these things cost and I know I'm in for a major lifestyle adjustment.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I'm back, and I've been thinking about the money thing. In my case it's certainly not about the price of gifts--well, who doesn't like to receive something expensive now and again, but I'd rather have a cheap engagement ring and spend the difference on a vacation, for example. I think I'm thinking of the money in terms of freedom.

 

For example, my ex, in an effort to get over me if I don't go back to him, has gone off to another country for a few months (sounds extreme, but that was our lifestyle). I have to admit I'm jealous, thinking of all the new experiences he's having, and also because with the financial security that comes from having a well paid job, you can do these things sometimes. Travel and experiences are very important to me, and this is what I'm scared of losing out on. The other guy has promised we can travel, move to my country, whatever I want, but I know what these things cost and I know I'm in for a major lifestyle adjustment.

 

What about you? Do you have a job? Why does your level of financial security have to depend on the guy?

[findingnemo]

But if she's the kind who will start to consider other men because of money...I agree with Carrie's original response, which was don't marry either of them.

 

After reading "His Needs Her Needs" I finally accepted that for women money is a common requirement for love. I think my wife would have left me 7 years earlier if I hadn't been well off. She was that kind of wonderful

 

Yes, that was my response too. She shouldn't marry either of them. She should go home and wait to meet another guy who has most of the things she wants!! Having said that, butterflies remain priceless, IMO.

[findingnemo]

I'm back, and I've been thinking about the money thing. In my case it's certainly not about the price of gifts--well, who doesn't like to receive something expensive now and again, but I'd rather have a cheap engagement ring and spend the difference on a vacation, for example. I think I'm thinking of the money in terms of freedom.

 

For example, my ex, in an effort to get over me if I don't go back to him, has gone off to another country for a few months (sounds extreme, but that was our lifestyle). I have to admit I'm jealous, thinking of all the new experiences he's having, and also because with the financial security that comes from having a well paid job, you can do these things sometimes. Travel and experiences are very important to me, and this is what I'm scared of losing out on. The other guy has promised we can travel, move to my country, whatever I want, but I know what these things cost and I know I'm in for a major lifestyle adjustment.

 

Why is this about a man giving you a certain lifestyle? First get it on your own, then it won't matter who you love.

[smoky eyes]

Why is this about a man giving you a certain lifestyle? First get it on your own, then it won't matter who you love.

 

It's not necessarily about a man giving me a certain lifestyle, it's about what lifestyle I can achieve in CONJUNCTION with a man. I could afford my flight to go join my ex on another continent tomorrow if need be (although I couldn't afford all of the subsequent round the world trip I'm being bribed with) But if I'm the sole decent earner, options are more limited - I can't afford to take two people to wherever.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much of my feelings of missing my ex are missing him, and how many are missing the lifestyle. And why if I am head of heels for the new guy, which I certainly was, do I have all these cold feet feelings. The only thing he doesn't give me (apart from speaking to me in my own language) that my ex did, is the adventure.

[LittleTiger]

It's not necessarily about a man giving me a certain lifestyle, it's about what lifestyle I can achieve in CONJUNCTION with a man. I could afford my flight to go join my ex on another continent tomorrow if need be (although I couldn't afford all of the subsequent round the world trip I'm being bribed with) But if I'm the sole decent earner, options are more limited - I can't afford to take two people to wherever.

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much of my feelings of missing my ex are missing him, and how many are missing the lifestyle. And why if I am head of heels for the new guy, which I certainly was, do I have all these cold feet feelings. The only thing he doesn't give me (apart from speaking to me in my own language) that my ex did, is the adventure.

 

One of the things I learned over the years about relationships is that matching 'core values' are essential to long term happiness. It doesn't matter how much people think they 'love' one another, if they're not a good match and they don't want or need the same things from life, it's a long road to discontent!

 

It sounds as though freedom is one of your core values and it's the kind of freedom that only comes with a certain level of income. If you marry guy #2 the chances are you will resent him somewhere down the line for not contributing to the lifestyle that makes you happy. If you marry guy #1, you might get the lifestyle, but you will tire of the lack of sexual connection - you've already said that this is important for you.

 

Neither of these guys is right for you. When you find the right man you won't be asking for anyone else's opinion.

[Nyla]

We're getting off topic now but, from what you say in this post, I think point b) in my previous post describes your interpretation of 'receiving gifts'. That is, the value of the gift is directly proportional to your perceived worth in the eyes if the 'giver'. So I think we're actually in agreement here

 

In 'love language' terms it's how the gift makes you 'feel' that's important and not the cost of the gift although, for you, the two are clearly connected. Fortunately, this isn't the case for most people. If it was, there would be a lot of people at the lower end of the financial scale who would spend their entire lives feeling unloved.

 

I presume then that if your husband had only been able to afford a $300 ring you would not have married him - because he wouldn't have had the means to make you feel loved? If the OP has the same values then you're definitely right, she needs to marry someone with money. I think she's gone now though.

 

No, if all he could afford was a $300 ring I would have been fine with that.

 

However, I know he can afford far more and if he only chose to spend $300, I would not have been pleased.

 

Incidentally, My husband actually did buy me a ring for $400 when he proposed to me, but then upgraded that within a few months. He wanted to marry me and I wanted to say yes so I was willing to wait for a ring that made both of us happy.

 

When I give gifts to people I care about, I try to give the best gifts I can afford. I am a generous person and it is one way how I show my love, such as sending my little niece flavoured lip balm because I know she loves it.

[LittleTiger]

No, if all he could afford was a $300 ring I would have been fine with that.

 

However, I know he can afford far more and if he only chose to spend $300, I would not have been pleased.

 

Incidentally, My husband actually did buy me a ring for $400 when he proposed to me, but then upgraded that within a few months. He wanted to marry me and I wanted to say yes so I was willing to wait for a ring that made both of us happy.

 

So he proposed with a $400 ring and because it didn't cost enough you said no, until he could afford a better ring? Or you said yes, but only if he bought you a better ring in a few months when he could afford it?

 

Either way, you weren't happy with the ring he chose, because it didn't cost enough, even though it was all he could afford at the time?

 

Doesn't that contradict your first sentence here?

 

By the way, I'm not judging you in any way. Your values are your values, just as the OPs are. I just don't follow your logic.

 

If you were in the OPs shoes, would you marry guy #2, even though he would probably never be able to buy you expensive gifts? Or would you hold out for the ideal 'combination'? As I've already said, given her core values I think the OP should hold out so, again, I'm not judging. I'm just curious. Do you believe you could feel loved, long term, by a guy who didn't have much money?

[smoky eyes]

You sound destined to be perpetually unsatisfied no matter who you are with.

 

Some therapy might help you figure out your priorities a little better.

 

Why thank you, Cook. I realize you know what my priorities should be more than I do.

 

I want to make whoever I'm with happy, and I generally do. I just want to make sure I'm making myself happy in the process. Sheesh.

[Nyla]

So he proposed with a $400 ring and because it didn't cost enough you said no, until he could afford a better ring? Or you said yes, but only if he bought you a better ring in a few months when he could afford it?

 

Either way, you weren't happy with the ring he chose, because it didn't cost enough, even though it was all he could afford at the time?

 

Doesn't that contradict your first sentence here?

 

By the way, I'm not judging you in any way. Your values are your values, just as the OPs are. I just don't follow your logic.

 

If you were in the OPs shoes, would you marry guy #2, even though he would probably never be able to buy you expensive gifts? Or would you hold out for the ideal 'combination'? As I've already said, given her core values I think the OP should hold out so, again, I'm not judging. I'm just curious. Do you believe you could feel loved, long term, by a guy who didn't have much money?

 

I said yes. My husband told me he would upgrade my ring, after I said yes. I did not ask him to upgrade my ring.

 

I wasn't happy with the ring because the diamond was too small, obviously because it was cheap.

 

It does appear that you are judging me for my values, but you are entitled to your viewpoint. I married my husband when he had nothing, so I would marry for love instead of money.

[LittleTiger]

It does appear that you are judging me for my values, but you are entitled to your viewpoint. I married my husband when he had nothing, so I would marry for love instead of money.

 

I'm sorry you get the impression I'm judging you Nyla. I can assure you I'm not. I'm just interested in how people think, especially when it's different to the way I think. I was teased in college for asking too many questions! I'm obviously doing it here too, so I'll call it quits and just remain curious!

 

If it helps you to feel less judged, I'm actually a lot like the OP. I fell in love with my fiancé when he had absolutely nothing. Would I have stuck around if I hadn't seen his potential to haul himself off the bottom? Possibly not - although it has nothing to do with his ability to buy me expensive gifts It just so happens that I like a bit of adventure - as well as a man with ambition, guts and determination. Unlike the OP though, I was never prepared to consider anything but the whole package.

[Nyla]

It sounds like he got the perfect ring for you in the first place.

 

Well, there was also a noticeable defect in the ring, so it was hardly the perfect ring for me or for us.

 

In any case, the upgrade was a great choice.

 

Marrying purely for money is never a good idea.

[JourneyLady]

The butterflies are priceless!!!

 

Not if they are accompanied by having to support the other person to the point of resentment they aren't.

 

I still get butterflies with ex-boyfriend 5 yrs, but I was butterflying myself right into massive credit card debt. (Not the only thing, but a huge contribution to it.) I was trying to help him be happy and content. Could not be done.

 

Love him deeply, but let him go. I also had no time to devote to the pursuits that feed my spirit...

 

Yes I'm glad to have had the butterflies, but would not make that choice again.

[LittleTiger]

Yes I'm glad to have had the butterflies, but would not make that choice again.

 

Don't rule it out. It is possible to have butterflies for someone who is actually good for you. Someone who will be a great partner even if/when the butterflies fade.

[2.50 a gallon]

To most of the posters, do not be too harsh on smoky eyes until you have walked in her shoes. Wealth can be very appealing.

 

When I separated from my Ex at age 35, I swore that I would never love or marry again. When in my 40's I met this geeky nerd woman who was only 28. She was mensa intelligent, software engineer. Her world was the world of the nerds, parties were for playing chess.

 

Although she had a great body, she had lived a life trying to make herself unattractive. Short straight hair, baggy clothes, no make up, stupid looking glasses, there was no doubt she was a nerd. She had had only two short term lovers prior to meeting me. I talked her into changing her ward robe, glasses, and let her hair grow out, and within 6 months, she had all kinds of guys hitting on her.

 

With me she was able to let go sexually, and fell in love with me. Then came the surprise, her dad was worth over a hundred million, and she herself was already a millionaire several times over.

 

That is when the offers started, all expense paid trips to Hawaii, cruises to Bermuda, Mexico. I almost bit on that one as we would have visited ruins.

 

I liked her enough to become exclusive at times, but we had several differences, the money and she was an ocean gal, and I was a mountain man.

 

We ended up in an on again, off again relationship that lasted for many years. She pushing to marry and starting a family, and me running. Then her parents got involved. They had gave up on her ever getting married and giving them more grand kids. Were we to marry, their grand kids would need a good home in the proper location, naturally close to where they lived. Our wedding gift was to be half the value of a million dollar home, plus they would help with the payments. And all expenses honeymoon, to Europe, and the Mediterranean was dangled in front of me. Her parents also had other grandkids and every summer, trips were planned for them to see the world. As would be the case with our off spring.

 

All very tempting to a guy who was making $18 an hour. I liked her a lot, and yes I loved her, and there were times that I felt I was in love with her, but alas those times always faded. I didn't mind her making more money than me, the problem was the amount, she had so much more than me I felt that when push came to shove, I would not have a voice. Married, divorce, and they can exclude me from my kids life. Etc.

 

The straw that broke the camels back was her last offer was a scuba diving trip to Tahiti. I came so close to going that it scared me. I saw a romantic beach, a few potent mixed exotic drinks, and me saying yes.

 

So I packed up my gear and moved a thousand miles back to my home town.

Edited June 8, 2013 by 2.50 a gallon

[2.50 a gallon]

smoky eyes

 

My old GF did not give up on me. She visited me several times and stayed for weeks.

 

Three months after I moved home I met a long legged, divorced mother of two teenage kids, who worked for minimum wage. Two years later, first kiss, and I was in love and had to inform the old GF that I would not be taking that trip with her to Disneyworld.

 

We are coming up on our 18 year anniversary, and still happily in love. I know I made the right choice.

 

As for ExGF, she did date, but has never married.

[Nyla]

Wealth is appealing, but not worth selling your soul for.

 

I could have had a child for a rich man. I was 25 and he was 50. I knew that I didn't want kids and even if I did, I would have wanted to have a child with a husband and not some old man.

 

I would have been set for life, but I would also be bought by someone who would demand that I stay exclusive to him in return for financial security. So not worth it.

[2.50 a gallon]

I have twice failed to get this posted, so will break it up

 

When we enter into a relationship over time we will make some changes in our life style and see things a little differently. In short it is a combining of two different people, and it is only natural that some of my life style will rub off on her and vice versa.

 

For example. I have always been a t-shirt and blue jeans kind of guy. At Christmas time my mom used to roll her eyes as I continued to show up for Xmas dinner in my clean new T-shirt and blue jeans. I could count on always getting a pair of slacks and a nice sweater for Christmas presents from her. Which I always took home and stuffed in a closet to never be seen again.

 

But this all changed when I started dating my XGF. Her dad dressed like Ward Cleaver, sweater and slacks, and I soon did the same when we went to her parents place, especially for the holidays. Xmas and Turkey day.

 

Her mom used to take the two of us out to dinner several times a year and always to a exclusive, read, high priced restaurant, in order for me to be dine there with I had to adopt. Hey it was a small price to pay for a free and fantastic meal like I had never tried before. And though nothing was ever said, what did it hurt if on special occasions I made them happy by dressing up a little.

[2.50 a gallon]

For the most part, other than one sister, the whole family tried to hide their wealth by blending in. Her parents and she both had normal cars, her dad had a pickup, a small Isuzuz.

 

Their one exception was with rings. They used rings as a status symbol

 

Her dad had given their mother a fancy large diamond ring at a renewal of vows ceremony, which she wore only on special occasions.

 

We had been together over six months when she decided to reveal her family secret and she did it with a ring. The previous weekend I had taken her camping and she repaid me the following weekend with a trip to a B&B in an ocean resort. That is when she began using the term "LOVE"

 

While window shopping she stopped at a jewelry store, and began looking at the rings. At her instance we had taken a closer look and entered the shop, at that time she told me to pick one out as she wanted to give me a friendship ring. I was totally stunned as there wasn't a one that didn't cost at least a couple of hundred. She then asked the owner to bring out the most expensive rings out of the vault for us to look at. And again told me to pick one out. I finally settled on one which she was not too happy with as it only cost a couple of hundred dollars.

 

Over an ice cream cone she revealed her family secret.

 

Later I would notice at parties and get togethers, how many of the guests were wearing fancy expensive rings. It was like and insider thing, a way to show off their wealth

 

The XGF had 3 sisters, all college graduates, my EX, the genius nerd who got into chemistry and microbiology (possible doctor) the others were steered toward degrees in finance. Two of the sisters had married rich guys. And both of them had big fancy expensive rings.

 

The oldest one was now on her third marriage. The other one had gone the ROW-DAY-OH drive route. Lexus, bigger boobs, married to a dude in the wine industry. And now lived on a winery in France that they partly owned, which in turn meant shopping days in Paris.

 

The youngest sister was an enigma. Had fallen in love with a guy who was 7 years older while in college. At the time of her graduation, under pressure from her family had broken up with him to play the field. We'll call him Dave.

 

Dave too had a college degree, but it was not in anything that would make him rich. And was very happy being a part owner and worked in surveying, which he loved.

 

She had gone out several times over the next 9 months with likely candidates, but was not interested. Then one night her date had returned home without her. They had gone bowling, with some of his friends and she had noticed some of her college friends at the other end of the lanes, had gone down to say hi, and the last he had seen of her was them walking out the far door.

 

Three hours later the mystery was solved when she called to say she was now a married woman. Dave had been with her friends and she knew what she wanted and they had eloped that night.

 

Of all the sisters she was by far the happiest. They already had their first kid and was later had second. The two of them were basically doing it on their own. Dad had offered to help them with their house, and the only thing they had accepted was a small green house for her flower raising. She raised flowers, including orchids to donate to hospitals, her church and senior citizen centers.

 

Dave was one hell of a nice guy, a great father and they were very much in love and it showed. Church on Sundays. Her grand parents lived in a fancy senior citizen center, and almost daily Dave stopped by on the way home, it was oh his way, to spend a few minutes with them.

 

But time after time, when she was out of ear shot, the sisters would remark on her wedding ring. It was too small too plan and too cheap and where did she get the guts to wear such a thing in public.

 

Never mind that she was by far the happiest of them all. In their mind the marriage was a failure due to that cheap ring.

Edited June 9, 2013 by 2.50 a gallon

[Nyla]

Most people view wedding jewellery as status symbols. Men are under pressure to be able to afford a large rock and women judge each other based on such things. This is why people immediately look at the ring finger when someone says she is engaged.

[2.50 a gallon]

Nyla

 

I disagree with the term most.

 

My ExW suckered me into buying her an expensive ring.

 

Prior to her, there were more than a handful of GF's who would have been over the moon had I given them any engagement ring. In fact they all had the attitude of my ex fiancé who just wanted a cheap ring, as she put it "It was a waste of money". Money that we could use towards buying us a home to raise our babies in.

 

It was only when I was with my ExGF and her family that I noticed the size of the ring.

[Nyla]

Nyla

 

I disagree with the term most.

 

My ExW suckered me into buying her an expensive ring.

 

Prior to her, there were more than a handful of GF's who would have been over the moon had I given them any engagement ring. In fact they all had the attitude of my ex fiancé who just wanted a cheap ring, as she put it "It was a waste of money". Money that we could use towards buying us a home to raise our babies in.

 

It was only when I was with my ExGF and her family that I noticed the size of the ring.

 

Your experience is the exception and not the rule.

 

How do you think De Beers got so many men to spend six months salary on engagement rings?

 

The average price of an engagement ring is more than $2,000. This means that most men and women are well aware society's expectations for such things.

 

My husband knew that we couldn't afford a wedding or afford to own property in this city. My gorgeous ring set is compensation for giving up some important things, just so that I could be with my husband.

[2.50 a gallon]

In my adult life I've lived in the midwest, the southwest, and the left coast and over the years had at least a dozen women propose that we get married. It was only the two on the left coast who wanted a big expensive ring.

 

Two in the southwest wanted their rings to have turquoise as a stone. In fact the Ex wanted a Zuni friend of ours to make hers, until we moved to the coast and then she had to have a diamond.

 

I lived on the left coast for about a dozen years, then returned back to my roots. I always told my coast buddies how the women back home were down to earth.

 

Two years later I hook up with my current love, been with her for coming up on 18 years and we have no need for a ring.

 

I am her's, she is mine. That is all we need