BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 No set time limit? By saying 'not the first date' you are setting a time limit. If it feels right to sleep with the person on the first date, I do it. I'm pretty sure it has no effect whatsoever on the fact or not we end up in a relationship. Guy who wants a relationship goes for a relationship no matter what - guy who wants sex will go for sex no matter what. Well, I'm sure that for ME, and just for me, it would be close to impossible to sleep with someone on the first date, because I'm shy and do not really like to touch strangers. But hypothetically, I wouldn't think that having sex on the first date would give me monogamy, on the contrary. 1
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Well there is where I would have a problem to wait.. if I ever know a girl used to have ONS makes me wait for sex I would assume she is not that attracted physically for me as she was for those other guys and that for me is the end of any possible relationship. I don't like when women use sex as a power tool to get into a relationship, I would feel stupid if someone tells me the girl I am dating for a month who has made me wait for sex used to have casual sex with other guys . I am speaking out experience on this one because it happened to me once and I hated it! She said that she wanted more with me than with the others but that didn't get my feeling that she was playing games out of my system... the thing never worked between us anymore. Funny thing she is still a fwb now What I said was just hypothetical, just to illustrate that I do not think that having sex on the first date is a pathway to monogamy, on the contrary.
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 No set time limit? By saying 'not the first date' you are setting a time limit. If it feels right to sleep with the person on the first date, I do it. I'm pretty sure it has no effect whatsoever on the fact or not we end up in a relationship. Guy who wants a relationship goes for a relationship no matter what - guy who wants sex will go for sex no matter what. To my opinion this is the way to go! :bunny: Things never come the way you plan, the best plan in dating is taking things as they come! 1
Maleficent Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 To my opinion this is the way to go! :bunny: Things never come the way you plan, the best plan in dating is taking things as they come! exactly! And if things don't turn out - well at least I got laid! lol 1
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Well there is where I would have a problem to wait.. if I ever know a girl used to have ONS makes me wait for sex I would assume she is not that attracted physically for me as she was for those other guys and that for me is the end of any possible relationship. I don't like when women use sex as a power tool to get into a relationship, I would feel stupid if someone tells me the girl I am dating for a month who has made me wait for sex used to have casual sex with other guys . I am speaking out experience on this one because it happened to me once and I hated it! She said that she wanted more with me than with the others but that didn't get my feeling that she was playing games out of my system... the thing never worked between us anymore. Funny thing she is still a fwb now Let me use my personal experience, since I cannot speak from other's experience to illustrate why a woman could potentially sleep with a guy she's not serious about, while not sleeping with one she is serious about. A few months ago I've met a guy who I was smitten with, really attracted AND he was a perfect match, I really wanted a relationship with. He pushed for sex early, but his wishy washy behavior made me think that sex is all he wanted and he will break my heart by disappearing after. If I had sex with him, although I really wanted him, I was pretty sure that I'd be suffering like hell. So although I really wanted to do it, I was very much into him, I refrained. About a month ago, I met a guy that was completely inappropriate for me, much younger, not much in common. Physically attractive. I CONSIDERED sleeping with him just for sex (not on the first date anyway) because I knew that if he left me after, I wouldn't suffer and there is no potential there. But I was afraid to do it. So that's just to illustrate a way of thinking from a female point of view. I'd delay sex with someone I like a lot physically and I'm into more than physically, until I know that they won't break my heart right after, while with someone I'm JUST physically attracted to I'd be less fearful. Hope this brings some light.
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 No set time limit? By saying 'not the first date' you are setting a time limit. If it feels right to sleep with the person on the first date, I do it. I'm pretty sure it has no effect whatsoever on the fact or not we end up in a relationship. Guy who wants a relationship goes for a relationship no matter what - guy who wants sex will go for sex no matter what. Also, I'd like to add that I said that I'd have sex with someone when I feel he will not leave me right after. It would potentially be difficult to gauge that within one meet. So I don't think it's an artificial time limit. Not saying that having sex on the first date never gives you a relationship, just saying that this is not a good STRATEGY to get a relationship and push men into monogamy, I maintain it is probably a losing strategy in that direction.
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Let me use my personal experience, since I cannot speak from other's experience to illustrate why a woman could potentially sleep with a guy she's not serious about, while not sleeping with one she is serious about. A few months ago I've met a guy who I was smitten with, really attracted AND he was a perfect match, I really wanted a relationship with. He pushed for sex early, but his wishy washy behavior made me think that sex is all he wanted and he will break my heart by disappearing after. If I had sex with him, although I really wanted him, I was pretty sure that I'd be suffering like hell. So although I really wanted to do it, I was very much into him, I refrained. About a month ago, I met a guy that was completely inappropriate for me, much younger, not much in common. Physically attractive. I CONSIDERED sleeping with him just for sex (not on the first date anyway) because I knew that if he left me after, I wouldn't suffer and there is no potential there. But I was afraid to do it. So that's just to illustrate a way of thinking from a female point of view. I'd delay sex with someone I like a lot physically and I'm into more than physically, until I know that they won't break my heart right after, while with someone I'm JUST physically attracted to I'd be less fearful. Hope this brings some light. I understand that is your way of thinking and is a self preservation thing... but how is that fair for the guy who actually want you for more than sex? We men have a strong ego when it comes to sex and I don't think many of us would like the idea that we have to work harder for something that has been given for free to others... 1
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 exactly! And if things don't turn out - well at least I got laid! lol I'm truly happy for you that you can compartmentalize, and I'm not being sarcastic. I think I could do that, i.e. be glad that "at least got laid" and compartmentalize, if I wasn't into a guy more than physically, but if I'm more invested than that, just getting laid won't cut it.
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 exactly! And if things don't turn out - well at least I got laid! lol Wow, I didn't know I had a woman alter ego! :bunny: 1
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I'm truly happy for you that you can compartmentalize, and I'm not being sarcastic. I think I could do that, i.e. be glad that "at least got laid" and compartmentalize, if I wasn't into a guy more than physically, but if I'm more invested than that, just getting laid won't cut it. Why not if I may ask? If you like the guy more than physically and you get only laid is that not better than nothing?
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I understand that is your way of thinking and is a self preservation thing... but how is that fair for the guy who actually want you for more than sex? We men have a strong ego when it comes to sex and I don't think many of us would like the idea that we have to work harder for something that has been given for free to others... I understand this ego thing, and with the first guy, I will always wonder if I wasn't wrong. He still replies to my messages if I message him, to this day, but that's it, doesn't initiate. But, you said "how is that fair for the guy who actually want you for more than sex?". Well, in the case I presented, the point is, he didn't convince me that he wanted me for more than sex. That's why I said that I'd sleep with someone after I felt in my gut that he didn't want me JUST for sex. So for the guy you asked how is it fair to him, the one who didn't want me just for sex, and who i wanted as well, it would be fair, because I'd sleep with him as soon as I realized that and felt safe. No time limits, although doubt it on the first date, for the reasons presented above (too early to call his intentions/feel safe, and I'm shy can't go to bed with strangers).
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Why not if I may ask? If you like the guy more than physically and you get only laid is that not better than nothing? Because I don't like to be in depression for months just for a lay. When you really like someone and they don't like you back the same way, it's better to have as little contact as possible, sleeping with them si probably worse than going no contact, you'll fall more for him. 1
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I understand this ego thing, and with the first guy, I will always wonder if I wasn't wrong. He still replies to my messages if I message him, to this day, but that's it, doesn't initiate. But, you said "how is that fair for the guy who actually want you for more than sex?". Well, in the case I presented, the point is, he didn't convince me that he wanted me for more than sex. That's why I said that I'd sleep with someone after I felt in my gut that he didn't want me JUST for sex. So for the guy you asked how is it fair to him, the one who didn't want me just for sex, and who i wanted as well, it would be fair, because I'd sleep with him as soon as I realized that and felt safe. No time limits, although doubt it on the first date, for the reasons presented above (too early to call his intentions/feel safe, and I'm shy can't go to bed with strangers). Ohh, I was actually not speaking about your case in concrete is more about your hypothetical case where you could have sex in the first date with a guy you only like for sex but you would make wait the guy who you actually would want to pursue for a relationship. The question stays as how is that fair for the guy who actually wants you for more than sex to have to wait for what other guy who only wanted you for sex could take in 1 day? (hypothetical question in your case). It is not that just using sex as a power tool to retain the man you like?
Adele0908 Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Its not necessarily having sex on the first date, but definitely within a month, or the guy thinks he is being friend-zoned and moves on. I'm merely saying there are some women (perhaps many women) who expect sex to lead to monogamy even at the 3rd date. The sex could be bad, or the guy just sees better options with the other women. Sure, it is bad to use a woman's body, but I'm merely saying that sex does not lead to monogamy, even if the woman becomes emotionally attached. I think woman falsely believe that sex at any time will lead to monogamy by the man, and then they complain when the guy dumps her or cheats on her. Its not because he is a player, its because the girl is nothing special, or at least not special enough to be monogamous, and that is the painful truth. Its easier to blame the man for cheating, but its more painful to deal with the truth that the woman doesn't want to be alone and single. I see what you're saying. Basically, a lot of women who are seeking committed relationships use sex as a tool. Firstly, we live in a society that makes women AND men feel ashamed of their sexual desires. So a lot of people have skewed ideas toward sex, and try to come up with ideas of how things "should be". As adults we should know that sex doesn't always lead to monogamy. A mature man or woman knows that sex is not enough to keep a partner. If a guy dumps a woman after having a sexual relationship with her, to me that does not mean she is "nothing special". She is not special to him, but she can and will be special to someone. Usually what the case is is that a man may see her as nothing special because SHE sees herself as nothing special. A woman using sex to get a man or keep a man does not see the value in herself, therefore it will be difficult for a man to see her value. But a woman who has sex with her man because she enjoys it and it makes her happy is not using sex as a tool, which to me is more genuine. If a woman wants to wait to have sex that is fine too. On another note, some men don't realize how fulfilling and sensual that sex can be for us women. Satisfying sex can be a healing experience. The afterglow of great sex can last days or weeks. Many women are multi-orgasmic. It's best in a love relationship in my opinion but theres lots of scenarios that work for different people. If a woman sees sex as a duty, tool, or chore, she is repressed in some way. 6
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Because I don't like to be in depression for months just for a lay. When you really like someone and they don't like you back the same way, it's better to have as little contact as possible, sleeping with them si probably worse than going no contact, you'll fall more for him. Yeah, I guess I look at it from a male perspective, in my case if I won't get the girl but I at least got laid I would be only half depressed:p 1
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I see what you're saying. Basically, a lot of women who are seeking committed relationships use sex as a tool. Firstly, we live in a society that makes women AND men feel ashamed of their sexual desires. So a lot of people have skewed ideas toward sex, and try to come up with ideas of how things "should be". As adults we should know that sex doesn't always lead to monogamy. A mature man or woman knows that sex is not enough to keep a partner. If a guy dumps a woman after having a sexual relationship with her, to me that does not mean she is "nothing special". She is not special to him, but she can and will be special to someone. Usually what the case is is that a man may see her as nothing special because SHE sees herself as nothing special. A woman using sex to get a man or keep a man does not see the value in herself, therefore it will be difficult for a man to see her value. But a woman who has sex with her man because she enjoys it and it makes her happy is not using sex as a tool, which to me is more genuine. If a woman wants to wait to have sex that is fine too. On another note, some men don't realize how fulfilling and sensual that sex can be for us women. Satisfying sex can be a healing experience. The afterglow of great sex can last days or weeks. Many women are multi-orgasmic. It's best in a love relationship in my opinion but theres lots of scenarios that work for different people. If a woman sees sex as a duty, tool, or chore, she is repressed in some way. I am in love :love: 1
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Ohh, I was actually not speaking about your case in concrete is more about your hypothetical case where you could have sex in the first date with a guy you only like for sex but you would make wait the guy who you actually would want to pursue for a relationship. The question stays as how is that fair for the guy who actually wants you for more than sex to have to wait for what other guy who only wanted you for sex could take in 1 day? (hypothetical question in your case). It is not that just using sex as a power tool to retain the man you like? I'm not sure that I see this as a war where we use tools to do this or that. Anyway, for me it's just about what's right for me, I don't owe the humanity sex on first, second, 5th date, and I don't need to be fair to all men on the planet, I just need to be fair to myself and try to get what I think is right for me. The guy who wanted me (hypothetically) for more than just sex would get what he wanted sex+relationship soon enough. If he REALLY wanted me for more, he'd understand, and he'll wait, it wouldn't be like he would have to wait forever. If he just gets butt hurt for having to wait until I feel comfortable, I'm sorry to say, he really wasn't into me as much. I was just one of the options, and he'd move on to someone else. "Just using sex as a power tool to retain the man you like". Yes, you could see it that way if you want, but it is the opposite of this thread, i.e. it is using witholding sex to get the man you want. The thread suggests that women use sex on the first date to force a man into monogamy. I think that's not a good strategy if anyone is trying that. 1
Maleficent Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Also, I'd like to add that I said that I'd have sex with someone when I feel he will not leave me right after. It would potentially be difficult to gauge that within one meet. So I don't think it's an artificial time limit. Not saying that having sex on the first date never gives you a relationship, just saying that this is not a good STRATEGY to get a relationship and push men into monogamy, I maintain it is probably a losing strategy in that direction. And what I'm saying is there are no strategies to get a relationship or push a man into monogamy. It happens or it doesn't. 1
Maleficent Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Because I don't like to be in depression for months just for a lay. When you really like someone and they don't like you back the same way, it's better to have as little contact as possible, sleeping with them si probably worse than going no contact, you'll fall more for him. Seeing as you would probably find out he doesn't like you back in a few days/weeks, I doubt you would be in depression for months...Or at least I hope so!
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 And what I'm saying is there are no strategies to get a relationship or push a man into monogamy. It happens or it doesn't. I 100% agree. Do what feels right for YOU at any point in time and what's meant to be, it's meant to be.
Maleficent Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I'm truly happy for you that you can compartmentalize, and I'm not being sarcastic. I think I could do that, i.e. be glad that "at least got laid" and compartmentalize, if I wasn't into a guy more than physically, but if I'm more invested than that, just getting laid won't cut it. Exactly how invested are you on the first date anyway? 1
therhythm Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 I'm not sure that I see this as a war where we use tools to do this or that. Anyway, for me it's just about what's right for me, I don't owe the humanity sex on first, second, 5th date, and I don't need to be fair to all men on the planet, I just need to be fair to myself and try to get what I think is right for me. The guy who wanted me (hypothetically) for more than just sex would get what he wanted sex+relationship soon enough. If he REALLY wanted me for more, he'd understand, and he'll wait, it wouldn't be like he would have to wait forever. If he just gets butt hurt for having to wait until I feel comfortable, I'm sorry to say, he really wasn't into me as much. I was just one of the options, and he'd move on to someone else. "Just using sex as a power tool to retain the man you like". Yes, you could see it that way if you want, but it is the opposite of this thread, i.e. it is using witholding sex to get the man you want. The thread suggests that women use sex on the first date to force a man into monogamy. I think that's not a good strategy if anyone is trying that. The thing is that love is not really something that blows you away from one second to the next one, you build that up and as a man (and I am particularly speaking about me and not as representative of the male gender) one of the things I can't accept as much as I may like a woman is that someone plays games with me. I agree with you that a woman does not owes sex to any man and can choose when and where she wants to do it but men do not owe commitment to any woman...and in my case I would chose a early retirement from the battle as women who like to play games with sex are not what I want for a relationship.
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Seeing as you would probably find out he doesn't like you back in a few days/weeks, I doubt you would be in depression for months...Or at least I hope so! See, everyone is different. I know I would be in depression for months if I REALLY liked the guy. I know it because it happened.
Maleficent Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 See, everyone is different. I know I would be in depression for months if I REALLY liked the guy. I know it because it happened. And this happens after a first date?? 1
BluEyeL Posted May 27, 2013 Posted May 27, 2013 Exactly how invested are you on the first date anyway? Told you I never slept with anyone on the first date, and I don't think I'll ever do it, for the reasons I outlined (shy, can't touch strangers mainly). Why so much rushing, people? Why can't we refrain just a little bit? I personally never felt comfortable sleeping with someone on the first date. Just wasn't, nothing imposed. And btw, off topic, what does it mean "sex is bad". I know how a man could give bad sex, i.e. not enough foreplay and no orgasm for her. How is a woman "bad in bed". Just inactive? I always wondered what does that mean.
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