Why are white women so sought after(is the reverse true too?)?

May 26, 2013

So your argument about: "(1) Media is reflects natural desires" was primarily focused on western culture where white people are the predominate race? Huh? So media which is trying to sell to White America reflects the natural desires of white people? What is your point there again?

A growing percentage of non-whites also live in western countries.

See here you couldn't be more wrong.

I know nothing about India. Which is why I added the caveat earlier about talking primarily about western culture. Though western culture, particularly that of the US, is what I would speculate is the most influential media in the world.

Lets not move the goal posts here Hokie. The argument wasn't why tanned skin is more popularized by media today. The argument is that the cultural preference for fair skin is more due to the scarcity of that trait in certain East Asian cultures than the mass media. I brought up two points that you haven't been able to refute:

1) These preferences were in place prior to the advent of mass media

2) These preferences do not coincide with the image promoted by mass media.

I don't refute point 1. And my explanation above addresses point 2. Media has something to sell, so they will influence contra to prior preferences.

Now I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at here... So East Asians want to be more white because less of them are white...?

May 26, 2013

I personally prefer white men, just because of where I am from and it is all I know. So to me they are sought after

May 26, 2013

OKCupid has a thorough analysis of ethnic preferences based on percentage of replies to messages. It's probably as valid as anything available- objective, based on a large sample, and not self-reporting. The result is that white women are indeed the most popular, and black women the least. It's even broken down such that you can see who responds to whom.

Race and responses

I think the notion that media defines preferences is nonsense. We've only had media for about 60 years. Before that ethnic biases were much worse than they are today. If anything, the media has helped make interracial dating acceptable.

Edited May 26, 2013 by salparadise

May 26, 2013

I think the notion that media defines preferences is nonsense. We've only had media for about 60 years. Before that ethnic biases were much worse than they are today. If anything, the media has helped make interracial dating acceptable.

Hmmm, this is a good point. Well played.

May 26, 2013

Yea they are the most sought after, it is what it is. There's a reason why many minority men complain about troubles in interracial Dating what they're basically saying is " why don't white woman like me?". I've seen it time and time a gain.

As for the guys while I wouldn't say its at the level of the white woman you could say the same thing. Alot of it has to do with the media reinforcing the idea that white is the most desirable and its been generations of this. There's alot of black,hispanic,asian women who put white men up on a pedastal as the ideal man. Many would rather be a Bootycall to a White guy then be in a relationship with one of their own

May 26, 2013

I wonder what the LGBT females on Loveshack have to say though. I don't have a strong preference for white women. I feel that all races have beautiful women, but the one that I was the most attracted to was Puerto Rican.

May 26, 2013

I don't think it's the skin color itself, but the facial structures and features and the general physique exhibited by white people. It's why people of other races who exhibit "white" facial features are deemed so attractive compared to their peers of that race. Beyonce comes to mind.

Beyonce doesn't have white facial features. Her features are all black. But, what do you know, seeing as how you are an Asian man of no experience dating? It's so wierd the type of people who talk about black people and don't even know us or hang around with us.

Trust me: I am lighter than Beyonce; her features are nothing special in the black community. She simply has blonde hair on light skin. That isn't that big of a deal. If you think it is, look up Keri Hilson, Faith Hill, Keyshia Cole: all black women with blonde hair.

I don't ever talk about Asian guys. I don't think most women in general talk about Asian guys. You are about 2% of the population. I can't remember the last time I talked or thought about Asian guys, but so many guys keep black women on their mind, and we only represent 7% of the population. Well, we are the most memorable I guess.

May 26, 2013

OKCupid has a thorough analysis of ethnic preferences based on percentage of replies to messages. It's probably as valid as anything available- objective, based on a large sample, and not self-reporting. The result is that white women are indeed the most popular, and black women the least. It's even broken down such that you can see who responds to whom.

Race and responses

I think the notion that media defines preferences is nonsense. We've only had media for about 60 years. Before that ethnic biases were much worse than they are today. If anything, the media has helped make interracial dating acceptable.

Yeah, but if you read the study carefully, you will see the truth. If oKcupid is made of 85% of white people, then the sample sizes that are selected by people of minorities are very small: that is only 15% for all races. So, they are comparing about 50% of their white women to small sizes of all other minorities. Second of all, black women are only behind by A FEW PERCENTAGE POINTS. Wow! How significantly important it is! I guess I should sweat tears by 5% of men not responding to my message on Okcupid. Because that is all that is. Who responds to whom. Lastly, if you see the study, black women are still outperforming men of all races. Seeing as how black women are more likely to have children and/or carry extra weight, that means we are doing just as well as women of other races who are not as likely.

And your comment about how media defines preference is nothing really fails when you think how porn, a relatively new phenomenon, has shaped how men view sexuality. The media does define certain things. If you go to Vanuatu, a small country in the Pacific Island, they think all Americans are blondes because that is what they see in the media.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Pillow

May 26, 2013

If you think it is, look up Keri Hilson, Faith Hill, Keyshia Cole: all black women with blonde hair.

Faith Hill a black woman with blonde hair. Give me a break. Maybe we're not talking about the same Faith Hill.

Yeah, but if you read the study carefully, you will see the truth. If oKcupid is made of 85% of white people, then the sample sizes that are selected by people of minorities are very small: that is only 15% for all races. So, they are comparing about 50% of their white women to small sizes of all other minorities. Second of all, black women are only behind by A FEW PERCENTAGE POINTS. Wow! How significantly important it is! I guess I should sweat tears by 5% of men not responding to my message on Okcupid.

Quote from the OKC page referenced:

Men don’t write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them out for the cold shoulder.

Response rates, female sender:

Black 31 37 36 37 40 41 41 32 32

White 48 51 47 48 49 48 48 47 41

Looks like the percentage difference ranges from 7 to 17, with the average being 10.88 percent. I don't recall seeing anything about the survey samples being proportionate to actual proportions of registered users, or that 85 percent were white.

The largest differences are with Asian, Pacific Islander, and Black males. Males of all ethnicities responded to black women the least of any, with only two exceptions, Indian to Pacific Islander and Other to Indian, with 2 and 5 point differences respectively.

I am not making judgements, just quoting the research. I don't really care whether you like what the numbers say, or whether you believe the analysis to be valid, but I do think it's revealing that you start out saying, "...you will see the truth," and the proceed to make statements that are clearly not accurate with respect to what is reported on that page. I'm not going to bother arguing your other points even though I disagree.

May 26, 2013

Faith Hill a black woman with blonde hair. Give me a break. Maybe we're not talking about the same Faith Hill.

Quote from the OKC page referenced:
Men don’t write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them out for the cold shoulder.

Response rates, female sender:
Black 31 37 36 37 40 41 41 32 32
White 48 51 47 48 49 48 48 47 41

Looks like the percentage difference ranges from 7 to 17, with the average being 10.88 percent. I don't recall seeing anything about the survey samples being proportionate to actual proportions of registered users, or that 85 percent were white.

The largest differences are with Asian, Pacific Islander, and Black males. Males of all ethnicities responded to black women the least of any, with only two exceptions, Indian to Pacific Islander and Other to Indian, with 2 and 5 point differences respectively.

I am not making judgements, just quoting the research. I don't really care whether you like what the numbers say, or whether you believe the analysis to be valid, but I do think it's revealing that you start out saying, "...you will see the truth," and the proceed to make statements that are clearly not accurate with respect to what is reported on that page. I'm not going to bother arguing your other points even though I disagree.

Okay, got it!

This really just makes it sweeter when black people prove people wrong again.

Bowing out.

May 26, 2013

Trust me: I am lighter than Beyonce; her features are nothing special in the black community. She simply has blonde hair on light skin. That isn't that big of a deal. If you think it is, look up Keri Hilson, Faith Hill, Keyshia Cole: all black women with blonde hair.

I don't ever talk about Asian guys. I don't think most women in general talk about Asian guys. You are about 2% of the population. I can't remember the last time I talked or thought about Asian guys, but so many guys keep black women on their mind, and we only represent 7% of the population. Well, we are the most memorable I guess.

You are so right about this. Everyone thinks Beyonce is so beautiful when there are other black women within the community that make her look like last years old shoes. These women do not wear bleached blonde hair but embrace their own natural hair color. You'd never see these women because the media will never put them in the public's eye.

I think you meant Faith Evans instead of Faith Hill.

May 27, 2013

You are so right about this. Everyone thinks Beyonce is so beautiful when there are other black women within the community that make her look like last years old shoes. These women do not wear bleached blonde hair but embrace their own natural hair color. You'd never see these women because the media will never put them in the public's eye.

I think you meant Faith Evans instead of Faith Hill.

Yeah, I was gonna say Faith Evans (Faith Hill She's like the whitest woman in the world )

May 27, 2013

It's so wierd the type of people who talk about black people and don't even know us or hang around with us.

I went to a predominantly black law school and have dated a couple black women...

May 27, 2013

Beyonce doesn't have white facial features. Her features are all black.

I think it's her nose that stands out for me...

May 27, 2013

A growing percentage of non-whites also live in western countries.

I still don't understand your original point. If we both agree that the media largely plays to preferences of those that make the most money, then it is easy to understand why beautiful white people are predominant in US media. Sure there is a growing percentage of non-whites, but the majority of power/money is still held by white people. Furthermore, there are changes in the media, there are lot more non-white actors, models and spokesmen. As demographics of the US change, so will mass media. However, this takes time so I am not sure what you were trying to say.

I don't refute point 1. And my explanation above addresses point 2. Media has something to sell, so they will influence contra to prior preferences.

Now I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at here... So East Asians want to be more white because less of them are white...?

Yes, is that such a flimsy argument? People like what is rare. East Asians have a preference for fair women because there are few fair women. In a country where there are plenty of fair women (US) people prefer slightly tanned skin, because it is more rare.

Why do blondes get so much attention? Why do people like blue eyes or green eyes? Because those traits are rare.

There is nothing inherently more attractive about blonde hair or blue eyes, but since those traits are more rare, they are more appreciated.

May 27, 2013

I still don't understand your original point. If we both agree that the media largely plays to preferences of those that make the most money, then it is easy to understand why beautiful white people are predominant in US media. Sure there is a growing percentage of non-whites, but the majority of power/money is still held by white people. Furthermore, there are changes in the media, there are lot more non-white actors, models and spokesmen. As demographics of the US change, so will mass media. However, this takes time so I am not sure what you were trying to say.

Non-whites in Amrrrca are raised to love white people.

Yes, is that such a flimsy argument? People like what is rare. East Asians have a preference for fair women because there are few fair women. In a country where there are plenty of fair women (US) people prefer slightly tanned skin, because it is more rare.

Why do blondes get so much attention? Why do people like blue eyes or green eyes? Because those traits are rare.

There is nothing inherently more attractive about blonde hair or blue eyes, but since those traits are more rare, they are more appreciated.

I understand your point now. A lot of Asians are very careful to not get tanned, as fair skin is deemed a desirable trait. They even hold umbrellas up on sunny days...

But going to the point of blondes being desired for their rarity, gingers are even more rare, yet why are they not deemed the most attractive...?

I hesitate to say "lawyered" quite yet, as I'm curious to see what you come back with.

May 27, 2013

Non-whites in Amrrrca are raised to love white people.

This the same thing you did with the Bollywood thing where you claimed that Indians who met the "white standard" of beauty are the ones who become Bollywood actors.

You are shoehorning things to make things fit whether they are true or not. You have such strongly held beliefs about your own race that, regardless of the evidence provided to the contrary, you can't see things the way they are. Instead, you find someway to make them fit in your world view.

It is somewhat insulting (insulting is too strong a word) to say that the only reason why non-whites are considered attractive in US is because they have "white features". I believe that is wrong and I believe that every ethnicity has has its fair share uniquely attractive people. Physical attractiveness is a human thing, not a white thing.

I understand your point now. A lot of Asians are very careful to not get tanned, as fair skin is deemed a desirable trait. They even hold umbrellas up on sunny days...

But going to the point of blondes being desired for their rarity, gingers are even more rare, yet why are they not deemed the most attractive...?

I hesitate to say "lawyered" quite yet, as I'm curious to see what you come back with.

"Lawyered" my a$$, YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

This is a simple answer.

The US is full of fair skinned people. Tan skin is considered more attractive than fair skin. If normal white skin is not considered that attractive, then you can see how Gingers, who have even more pale skin, are "not deemed the most attractive".

How many tanned Gingers do you see? Exactly 0 because Gingers don't tan, they burn.

May 27, 2013

This the same thing you did with the Bollywood thing where you claimed that Indians who met the "white standard" of beauty are the ones who become Bollywood actors.

Well I misspoke on India. I don't know anything about that culture except for the snippets of what I see in western media, i.e., the most popular Indian actresses.

You are shoehorning things to make things fit whether they are true or not. You have such strongly held beliefs about your own race that, regardless of the evidence provided to the contrary, you can't see things the way they are. Instead, you find someway to make them fit in your world view.

I have strongly held beliefs on all races, not just my own. I tend to think that I see things too much as they are. Objectively and without emotion. That's why I can be unpopular around here with my views. Political correctness and emotional empathy are a powerful force that is often very influential in people's views.

It is somewhat insulting (insulting is too strong a word) to say that the only reason why non-whites are considered attractive in US is because they have "white features". I believe that is wrong and I believe that every ethnicity has has its fair share uniquely attractive people. Physical attractiveness is a human thing, not a white thing.

And this goes back to the political correctness and emotional aspect of viewpoints. Is a viewpoint wrong simply because it is insulting?

And to each his own...?

The US is full of fair skinned people. Tan skin is considered more attractive than fair skin. If normal white skin is not considered that attractive, then you can see how Gingers, who have even more pale skin, are "not deemed the most attractive".

How many tanned Gingers do you see? Exactly 0 because Gingers don't tan, they burn.

And tanned skin had nothing to do with my point. It had to do with rare traits, specifically blonde hair and blue eyes. Your point was that rare traits are more attractive than more common traits. So I presented traits which were even more rare, that is extremely fair skin and red hair, yet were not more desirable than less rare traits (blonde hair and blue eyes).

My argument was to discount your theory on rare traits being more attractive simply due to their rarity.

May 27, 2013

And this goes back to the political correctness and emotional aspect of viewpoints. Is a viewpoint wrong simply because it is insulting?

Nope, it isn't wrong because it is insulting. I believe it is wrong because it is just flat out wrong. You have some strongly held beliefs due to so some past negative experiences and that is why I believe you hold the views that you do. We probably grew up in similar environments exposed to similar mass media, yet on this issue we are at opposite ends.

And tanned skin had nothing to do with my point. It had to do with rare traits, specifically blonde hair and blue eyes. Your point was that rare traits are more attractive than more common traits. So I presented traits which were even more rare, that is extremely fair skin and red hair, yet were not more desirable than less rare traits (blonde hair and blue eyes).

My argument was to discount your theory on rare traits being more attractive simply due to their rarity.

You are over simplifying the "rare traits more attractive" concept. Dwarfism is rare, yet no one sees it as more attractive either. Why? Because that trait is pushing to one negative extreme (extremely short). Gingers are also pushing to one negative extreme. Thus in US culture Gingers aren't deemed the most attractive. Blonde hair or blue eyes aren't pushing to one extreme that is considered negative.

May 27, 2013

Nope, it isn't wrong because it is insulting. I believe it is wrong because it is just flat out wrong. You have some strongly held beliefs due to so some past negative experiences and that is why I believe you hold the views that you do. We probably grew up in similar environments exposed to similar mass media, yet on this issue we are at opposite ends.

Why do you use the word "believe" for something that is "flat out wrong"...? Is there room for doubt, or is it just reflective of your personal opinion? Perhaps we observe the same things but just come to different conclusions based from those observations.

You are over simplifying the "rare traits more attractive" concept.

I only went off of what you presented, quoted below. You made the "rare traits are more attractive" concept pretty simple and straightforward. There were no caveats as to "extreme negative" rare traits.

People like what is rare.

...people prefer slightly tanned skin, because it is more rare.

Why do blondes get so much attention? Why do people like blue eyes or green eyes? Because those traits are rare.

There is nothing inherently more attractive about blonde hair or blue eyes, but since those traits are more rare, they are more appreciated.

May 27, 2013

Why do you use the word "believe" for something that is "flat out wrong"...? Is there room for doubt, or is it just reflective of your personal opinion? Perhaps we observe the same things but just come to different conclusions based from those observations.

Sure there is room for discussion, if someone makes valid points to contrary, but I haven't seen that in this thread. Conversely, I have made multiple points as to why US mass media doesn't set the standard for beauty in foreign countries and how some cultural beauty standards precede mass media.

I only went off of what you presented, quoted below. You made the "rare traits are more attractive" concept pretty simple and straightforward. There were no caveats as to "extreme negative" rare traits.

Yes, but I also never said all rare traits are attractive, you extrapolated that on your own. I was giving explanations as to why certain traits might be considered culturally more attractive.

May 27, 2013

Sure there is room for discussion, if someone makes valid points to contrary, but I haven't seen that in this thread. Conversely, I have made multiple points as to why US mass media doesn't set the standard for beauty in foreign countries and how some cultural beauty standards precede mass media.

I'd have to learn more about Indian media and specifically Indian facial features to continue on with this...

Yes, but I also never said all rare traits are attractive, you extrapolated that on your own. I was giving explanations as to why certain traits might be considered culturally more attractive.

You probably should have if you wanted to prevent extrapolation of your words.

June 20, 2013

As a white woman, I find it creepy when skin colour gets fetished.

I feel the same about women who go blonde, especially when it looks obviously fake (platinum blonde) or when it doesn't fit their skin tone (blonde only looks good on people with a Nordic-pale complexion). I was born natural, but I started hennaing my hair 3 years ago and never looked back. I'm lucky I have the type of complexion where I can get away with either color.

June 20, 2013

I read and hear so much that in many places white women are regarded as the epitome of beauty. So many different races have a strong desire for white women, why is this?

Also, does this also apply to white men?

I've also heard of this being common in many impoverished countries. Pretty much any Caucasian woman...even if she isn't that attractive is seen as beautiful.

June 20, 2013

This issue has, surprisingly, very little to do with beauty, and a lot to do with politics. For several centuries, until the present day, the "white" countries, pretty much monopolized most of the wealth in the world. In many cases, during the colonial/slavery period, actual political power was confined to the "white " nations. At one time there were very few non-white nations ruled by non-white people. Ergo, it was good to admire white people, to emulate white people, to try to do the things white people do and act the way white people act, and like the things white people like. White Standards were felt to be superior and as the media and fashion outlets were controlled by white people, it shouldn't be surprising that white women too , are considered superior. I'm a mixed race man, who finds ALL women have their own special beauty, and race has very little to do with it.

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Why are white women so sought after(is the reverse true too?)?

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