I Wanna Jam, But He Won't Play With Me (Sorry, Long, and a bit Whiny)

[Honour]

Well, yes and no.

 

If we're talking about singing, maybe not.

 

If we're talking about playing an instrument, it absolutely applies. Any physical skill that requires muscle memory is the very thing I'm talking about. I was assuming this guy played an instrument.

 

 

A jam, by definition, is not "work" or a chore, or an obligation. It's a liberation of that musical expressiveness we feel, and when done right, there's a sweet spot that everyone can feel and experience and that makes it absolutely glorious for all those present.

 

What we're talking about is a musical conversation among like-minded people. One where I've seen people of greater AND lesser skills or talent being welcomed with equal enthusiasm.

 

For example, you are admittedly NOT a musician. You do not possess a musician's "sensibility". And yet, you are welcomed into the discussion as an equal, as a peer, as someone whose experience and opinions are worthy. Your contribution is valued in and of itself.

 

How would you feel if you were seemingly excluded from the discussion by mere virtue of lacking a penis (read other notes)? Or because you didn't have the same type of experience we did? Or because you're a scientist and not a musician at all?

 

In a jam, a good jam, there's room for EVERYone's point of view, and a good musician can accommodate virtually any level that comes at him or her. I know that when I participate in a song, my main focus is in making the song sound good, in producing pleasure in myself and those listening to it. And that is not always easy, trust me, lol.

 

But, it is so worth it. And that's all I want. Is to feel that wonderful satisfaction of making the song sound good with someone I love. Not a competition, not a free ride, not trying to denigrate or take away. Just to add to the possibilities of what we can experience together.

 

I'm still hoping it will happen. But, I am understanding a bit more, and that has been quite helpful to me, personally, for, I too am a bit of a scientist in my own way, and I don't find it dramatic at all to indicate that I am also a musician...it is merely a statement of fact, borne out by documented experience and witnesses thereof.

[RogerWallace111]

Creativity comes from years and years of practice. From copying songs and from improving your technical skills to get the songs out from the instrument.

 

I have almost never met a musician who is any decent who has not put in tons of hours over years. In fact, I can say never.

 

I had an ex-girlfriend who could sing really well along with the radio and at karaoke, and then when I played the same songs for her on the guitar, she couldn't sing along. She couldn't follow the beat. She never worked on it. Basically, she sucked.

 

The more work you put in, the higher level you achieve.

 

I strongly disagree with the bolded above, but of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Obviously a certain amount of practice / technical proficiency is required to translate one's musical ideas into sound. But take an instrument like the drums, for which that's a bit less true than knowing the fretboard of the guitar or fingerings of a bassoon. I know dozens of drummers. The one who I enjoy playing with possibly the most has the least amount of practice, guaranteed. He played casually when he was younger, and barely had touched a kit in years till I recently encouraged him to play some again. His feel is f*ckin badass. His natural sense of tempo/rhythm is awesome. He may not have the speed and technical skills of all the guys I know who spent the countless hours practicing but there's a raw soul in his playing that could NEVER be learned.

 

It reminds me of how Danny Elfman lacked any formal composition training when he wrote his first film scores, and had to orate the ideas he heard in his head to a highly-trained arranger. I find the importance in the music more than the physical human motions made to create it.

 

Anyway, sorry for getting off track.

[daisybuchanan55]

I'm an actress and it would be my worst nightmare to date another actor. I imagine my reasons may be similar to his.

 

1. Competition. Men don't deal well with their SO's competing with them on any level. Respect this. I would HATE having to worry about my boyfriend getting better roles than me. Actually, I can't stand dating any artistic person for this reason...the "who is more successful" aspect would drive me insane.

 

2. Bringing job into relationship -- Sometimes you want to come home from "the office" (or studio...) and not deal with that aspect. You want to relax and unwind.

 

3. Embarrassment -- Any art form is deeply personal. If he doesn't want you involved then respect this and move on. Maybe he is worried about judgement from you.

 

These are my two cents. Bottom line is you nagging will only make it worse. Leave him alone!!! Jam with other people.

[crederer]

As a former pro musician, everything daisy just said is exactly how I'd think if my girl was also a musician.

 

Keep the relationship the relationship, you don't need to get all "white stripes" about it.

[Adele0908]

Honour, what I think is that he just wants to have a separate life from you, one that is just FOR HIM ONLY.

 

He doesn't want to include you, but its not YOU. It's not anything YOU DID or are doing.

 

He just wants to have his own thing going.

 

It is normal, and a sign of a healthy man, in my opinion.

 

Would you be attracted to him if he always wanted to be around you, playing music with you, and basically demanded that the two of you play music together? Think about it.

 

Don't take it personally that he wants to have his own life. He wants to still have his freedom while seeing you, the same way you might want to have your freedom to do the things that you enjoy doing.

 

You are not "cheating" if you find other people to play your music with.

 

How about just inviting him to see you play?

 

That way he is included in your world without you intruding on his.

[Honour]

All great insights, and thank you. Once more, though, to clarify.

 

There has been no nagging, no demanding (that, apparently, was the purview of the ex).

 

I have no interest in intruding on his deal.

 

I am/was just talking about maybe, perhaps, finding it in our hearts to croak out a couple of tunes together for, oh, I don't know, FUN.

 

No one would ever need to know. It could be our dirty little secret. His separate, independent, professional professionalism could remain untainted and intact, completely white-stripes free.

 

It just feels like this is part of a larger, more significant, communication issue. Now it's like this "thing" and it really didn't need to be.

 

He really IS a great guy otherwise, though, and I'm not too bad myself.

[Honour]

I guess what I mean to say is, thank you.

 

All these replies have really helped me to better understand where he might be coming from, allowing me to view him more sympathetically. I also feel somewhat vindicated (by those who share my sensibilities with regard to the matter) and feel more driven to do what I need to do for myself.

 

Definitely see some good results coming from this!!

[RogerWallace111]

All great insights, and thank you. Once more, though, to clarify.

 

There has been no nagging, no demanding (that, apparently, was the purview of the ex).

 

I have no interest in intruding on his deal.

 

I am/was just talking about maybe, perhaps, finding it in our hearts to croak out a couple of tunes together for, oh, I don't know, FUN.

 

No one would ever need to know. It could be our dirty little secret. His separate, independent, professional professionalism could remain untainted and intact, completely white-stripes free.

 

It just feels like this is part of a larger, more significant, communication issue. Now it's like this "thing" and it really didn't need to be.

 

He really IS a great guy otherwise, though, and I'm not too bad myself.

 

The "maybe he just wants it to be his thing separate from the relationship, everyone needs their thing" stuff is a logical enough stance to take I suppose, but I would still be thinking the same as bolded above.

 

If I were dating a chef I'd still expect to her to cook with/for me once in a while. Whether it's her work or her solace, or not.

 

And I fully believe he's a great guy otherwise, this is just some weird hangup of his that likely has more to do with the nagging musical ex than anything else.

Edited May 29, 2013 by RogerWallace111

[Honour]

 

If I were dating a chef I'd still expect to her to cook with/for me once in a while. Whether it's her work or her solace, or not.

 

Yeah! Like, if he were a surgeon, I wouldn't expect to be on his surgical team by mere virtue of having applied a band-aid (no pun intended, arf-arf), but I might enjoy playing "doctor" once we got home.

[daisybuchanan55]

You should find another way to include him in your musical life. He clearly doesn't want to jam for fun or anything other reason and there isn't anything you can do to change this, so try changing your expectations.

 

Go to more concerts together. Send him music you think he'd like and ask him to send you some stuff. Ask him to come to your shows. Ask his opinion on your work but don't give unsolicited opinions/advice on his.

 

You will be happier if you change your expectations.

 

If all else fails, play Rock Band together

[Divasu]

Yeah! Like, if he were a surgeon, I wouldn't expect to be on his surgical team by mere virtue of having applied a band-aid (no pun intended, arf-arf), but I might enjoy playing "doctor" once we got home.

 

Are you sure this is about playing a guitar together, or is it really code for something else...I'm not a musician, but, I've never come across a thread about jamming together via guitars as a 'dating problem' per se.

[Honour]

Are you sure this is about playing a guitar together, or is it really code for something else...I'm not a musician, but, I've never come across a thread about jamming together via guitars as a 'dating problem' per se.

 

 

You're right, I had never seen one before either, which is why I posted this one. And, the replies have been wonderful in helping me to better understand where he's coming from, and it has been comforting to know that I'm not the only one who has experienced this. Kind of felt vindicated, actually. (Except for the non-musicians who've responded, lol.)

 

Yes, it really is about the music itself, and it's about the communication involved in figuring out why something that could have evolved so naturally and easily given that we're both into the same thing became such a seeming ordeal.

 

And, yes, it is a bit of a code for something else because when the music is awesome, when there's a chemistry involved, when you hit that sweet spot on the harmonies or on a riff that complements another riff perfectly, there's this most incredible feeling, and I wanted to share that with someone I love. Like a heightened emotion in addition to the music.

 

Let me put it this way. Let's say you were really into movies and he was really into movies, but you each had a group of friends that you went to movies with before you were together.

 

Yet now, even though you're together, you don't go to movies with each other, you still go with your old group of friends.

 

After a while, you might start thinking "I'd really like to go see a movie with him so we could experience it together" but he's like "Um, I don't know about that, whenever I go to a movie with a date, it never goes well, and I'd just rather keep going with my friends. Why don't you just go with YOUR friends."

 

But then, your friends, who consider that you're with him, figure you're going to movies with HIM and no longer invite you. So now, you kind of don't have anyone to go to the movies with, something that you've always enjoyed immensely. Say hello to DVDs at home alone or going to the movies on your own, or in my case, making your own movie.

 

Does that explain it at all?

 

It's not about competition or wanting to take anything away from anyone. It's just about wanting to add to what we're feeling as a couple where both of us happen to be musicians. That's all.

 

As it happens, thanks to some of the great insights y'all have provided, I've settled down quite a bit and been better able to see where he might've been coming from. I've continued to make my own movie, as it were, and just done my best to accept and understand as I would hope he would too.

 

And, darn if it hasn't started happening slowly but surely. There has been (what I consider) progress. The occasional joining in when I'm singing something. The mere fact of being able to address the issue calmly and conversationally. And the dawning comprehension on both our parts that neither one of us means the other harm and that we can work this out.

 

I do hope this thread helps other musicians, artists, writers, etc., who are striving to build a good relationship with a fellow creative, because it sure helped me. If nothing else, I, personally, feel better, which I'm pretty sure is a great beginning for good stuff to happen.

[Els]

I'm not really a musician - I mean, I do play a couple of instruments casually, but it's been a once-in-a-blue-moon activity as of late. I think I understand how it feels, though, because I have interests in a fairly male-dominated field that my SO shares, too.

 

I can totally get the annoyance at him not wanting to share a casual jam session with you. Honestly, my personal opinion is that he should at the very least indulge you on occasion, even if he doesn't feel like doing so regularly (which could be understandable, because music might be 'work' from him and he wants to take a break from it at home). What use is a common hobby if you're never going to do it WITH your SO, ever? There is absolutely no advantage having a similar hobby in that case. You might as well be tone deaf for all the difference it makes to your R.

 

I think it's great that the two of you have been talking about it and hopefully working towards a compromise. Just wanted to chime in to let you know you're not being needy, clingy, or insecure by desiring to share a mutual hobby.

[Honour]

I'm not really a musician - I mean, I do play a couple of instruments casually, but it's been a once-in-a-blue-moon activity as of late. I think I understand how it feels, though, because I have interests in a fairly male-dominated field that my SO shares, too.

 

I can totally get the annoyance at him not wanting to share a casual jam session with you. Honestly, my personal opinion is that he should at the very least indulge you on occasion, even if he doesn't feel like doing so regularly (which could be understandable, because music might be 'work' from him and he wants to take a break from it at home). What use is a common hobby if you're never going to do it WITH your SO, ever? There is absolutely no advantage having a similar hobby in that case. You might as well be tone deaf for all the difference it makes to your R.

 

I think it's great that the two of you have been talking about it and hopefully working towards a compromise. Just wanted to chime in to let you know you're not being needy, clingy, or insecure by desiring to share a mutual hobby.

 

Wow, thank you, and we are. But, at the end of the day, that's what I really wanted/needed to hear, from someone who understands. And, like I said, it's actually getting better. I feel much more relaxed about it now that I understand a bit better, too.

[Divasu]

You're right, I had never seen one before either, which is why I posted this one. And, the replies have been wonderful in helping me to better understand where he's coming from, and it has been comforting to know that I'm not the only one who has experienced this. Kind of felt vindicated, actually. (Except for the non-musicians who've responded, lol.)

 

Yes, it really is about the music itself, and it's about the communication involved in figuring out why something that could have evolved so naturally and easily given that we're both into the same thing became such a seeming ordeal.

 

And, yes, it is a bit of a code for something else because when the music is awesome, when there's a chemistry involved, when you hit that sweet spot on the harmonies or on a riff that complements another riff perfectly, there's this most incredible feeling, and I wanted to share that with someone I love. Like a heightened emotion in addition to the music.

 

Let me put it this way. Let's say you were really into movies and he was really into movies, but you each had a group of friends that you went to movies with before you were together.

 

Yet now, even though you're together, you don't go to movies with each other, you still go with your old group of friends.

 

After a while, you might start thinking "I'd really like to go see a movie with him so we could experience it together" but he's like "Um, I don't know about that, whenever I go to a movie with a date, it never goes well, and I'd just rather keep going with my friends. Why don't you just go with YOUR friends."

 

But then, your friends, who consider that you're with him, figure you're going to movies with HIM and no longer invite you. So now, you kind of don't have anyone to go to the movies with, something that you've always enjoyed immensely. Say hello to DVDs at home alone or going to the movies on your own, or in my case, making your own movie.

 

Does that explain it at all?

 

It's not about competition or wanting to take anything away from anyone. It's just about wanting to add to what we're feeling as a couple where both of us happen to be musicians. That's all.

 

As it happens, thanks to some of the great insights y'all have provided, I've settled down quite a bit and been better able to see where he might've been coming from. I've continued to make my own movie, as it were, and just done my best to accept and understand as I would hope he would too.

 

And, darn if it hasn't started happening slowly but surely. There has been (what I consider) progress. The occasional joining in when I'm singing something. The mere fact of being able to address the issue calmly and conversationally. And the dawning comprehension on both our parts that neither one of us means the other harm and that we can work this out.

 

I do hope this thread helps other musicians, artists, writers, etc., who are striving to build a good relationship with a fellow creative, because it sure helped me. If nothing else, I, personally, feel better, which I'm pretty sure is a great beginning for good stuff to happen.

 

I'm glad the other replies help!

 

Like I said, I am not a musician so I don’t understand all this ‘creative’ stuff. Though, I’m pretty creative with computer graphics and images, which I do a lot of for work and enjoy doing. Not sure how much I would mind if my other half didn’t share the same passion nor spent time with me behind a computer screen creating images.

 

I understand though the desire to have/share hobbies together, especially if you both play guitar, and how much you enjoy it. It’s something you can do together. Having said that, many couples don’t share all of the same hobbies together and they manage just fine. Some couples even start new hobbies together, which can be fun to learn together and create a bonding experience. You'll have to dig a bit deeper with him to understand why, if you BOTH enjoy playing guitar, why he refrains from doing it together with you. OR, except that he likes to do it privately and likes to keep it separate.

 

When I think about it, I don’t know any couples who both play guitar together, though I am sure it exists (it’s usually a guy who is the musical instrument player and the woman does the vocals/sings). Pat Benatar’s husband is the guitar player in her band. Similarly ABBA and I believe Fleetwood Mac, at one point.

 

An ex was a HUGE football fanatic (I wasn’t) and he would always want me to go to games with him, and I did because I know he enjoyed sharing that hobby with me (albeit, I did complain a bit when it would be 15 below freezing and/or if/when it started interfering with things I wanted to do). I enjoy dancing, he hated it because he wasn’t great at it. But we hardly did it. Booo.

 

The movie reference is a good example though. If he doesn’t come around, might I suggest being naked wearing nothing but a tie and high heels? Maybe he’ll want to jamalama then. Ha!