Time to leave?

May 23, 2013

Hi there,

I am new here and am hoping for some advice on whether it's time to leave my husband. I've been seriously considering it for a few months now and have given myself until the end of June to try and come to a decision. Also, as an added complication I think I've managed to fall in love with one of my closest friends, who is also married. Trying hard to seperate the second issue from the first...

We've known each other since we were toddlers, have been together since we were 20 and have been married almost 12 years. We're both 37 now. No kids.

I am in the classic "I love him, but I am not in love with him" situation. I am getting more and more resentful of him and don't really want things to get to the point where we hate each other. He's a good man. He makes a good living (as do I). But we don't have much in common anymore.

We enjoy all sorts of recreational activities together. But no physical passion and very little intellectual connection (which is very important to me). I feel like I can't really have a real conversation with him about anything that I am passionate about.

We're basically living like roommates right now. Not sleeping in the same bed. Haven't had sex in over a year. He struggles with ED. We hadn't had even semi-regular sex for a few years before that.

I almost left him about 6 years ago, when I was in law school. I met all these people that I shared common interests and beliefs with and it was the first time I started to realize how little my husband and I really had in common any more. We had when we were younger, but we had grown apart by that point. I decided to stick it out with him. Because, like I said, he's a good man. And I do love him. Now I am regretting that choice and feeling like I've just wasted both of our time for the last 6 years.

Now I am realizing that I just can't see staying with him for the rest of my life. At the same time, my biological clock has gone off with a vengance and I think my last chance to have a child is coming up pretty quick. But I realize doing it with him would be pretty insane, being that I am seriously considering leaving him and all.

To complicate matters even further, I had a very close friend in law school who I flirted a lot with then. I never let things go further (despite his trying), since I was committed to my husband and couldn't (at that point) conceive of cheating on him. My friend got married shortly after law school. I am still good friends with him and his wife. They have a 2 year old now, who calls me auntie. About a year ago, my friend and I confessed to each other that we were both still really into each other (we had acknowledged that one other time, shortly before he got married, and promised we'd be good friends forever). In the last few months we've been getting closer and closer. We're not having an affair, but we're getting closer and closer to it. We kissed for the first time a few weeks ago.

I don't want to hurt his wife, and certainly don't want to cause damage to his young family. And at the same time, I am coming to terms with the fact that I have been in love with him for a long time. As I have come to realize that in the last few months, it's become more clear to me that I should be making a decision about my marriage. I harbour no illusions that I am going to end up living happily ever after with him. I care about him too much to even contemplate wanting to break up his family. Sometimes I think I should stop seeing him at all, but we mean so much to each other. We're both going through such tough times. I want to be there for him and having him there is making things so much, if somewhat more confusing, better for me.

Back to the leaving my husband thing. I love him. I want to hurt him as little as possible and I know he's going to be devastated if I do leave him. I am terrified of being 38 and starting to date again. Right now, it seems like a straight line from that to being childless and alone for the rest of my life. Despite all that, I don't think I should stay in a passionless marriage for the rest of my days.

So I am wondering - should I leave him? Trial seperation? Find some comfort in having an affair with my friend while I try to figure things out? I am just at my wits end trying to figure out the best course

Any thoughts, advice, suggestions will be gratefully accepted. Questions are welcome.

Thanks

May 23, 2013

the first thing i noticed with your post is you have "GRASS IS GREENER FEVER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE" syndrome.

let me ask two questions. if you are willing to leave your HUSBAND for your BEST friend. is he really your best friend, if you could leave your husband?

second if your best friend would leave his wife, is he his wives best friend and is he yours.

if you cant resolve conflicts within your own marriage, what makes you think you can tackle the same problems, witha best friend, when you are bothing leaving situations for eachother?

also, havent had sex in over a year. NO WONDER YOU ARE UNHAPPY IN YOUR MARRIAGE. you are depriving yourself, in your own marriage relationship and home what makes it a good place to be. both of you feel it and both of you are at odds. i wonder WHY! no emotional needs and no physical needs being met. and all of a sudden when your doing this with someone else there is magic in the air? GTFO YO!

also i like how you are flirting with someone in law school.

man class act yo!!!!

find comfort in having an affair? HAHAHA the NON-REALITY fantasy of not talking about bills kids etc until one day you do and it looks exactly like your marriage so you hop...:bunny:hopppp.....:bunny::bunny: into the next relationship looking for a fantasy.

first of all be honest with yourself here. you are looking out for yourself and what you want. not what your husband wants and are turning this on him like its his fault to want to be with you.

dammmmnnnnnnn...... can we get married?

sorry for being seemingly rude but LMAO WTF are you thinking? because really it doesnt seem thoughtfull.

let me help. it would be insane being with him because YOU ARE CONSIDERING LEAVING HIM. yeah...thats why its just...insane. GOT IT. check of understanding.

FIRST OF ALL no you shouldnt leave him. BUST OUT A MIRROR AND TAKE A LOOK.

tell yourself your husband is considering having an affair is flirting and doesnt care about you. oh yeah and hes considering leaving you.

and now your kissing other men.... WOOOOOOO. that feels good maybe because you havent kissed your husband? WTF seriously WTF DID I JUST READ!!!!!

lady you got some NERVES!

if you came him for an approval to feel less guilty, COUNT ME OUT.

DIVORCE YOUR HUSBAND BECAUSE its good that he be cared for not to fufill selfish fantasies of the life unseen.

wooooow. WHY DID YOU OF ALL PEOPLE GET MARRIED!

serious.....

you --->

May 23, 2013

I don't want to hurt his wife, and certainly don't want to cause damage to his young family. And at the same time, I am coming to terms with the fact that I have been in love with him for a long time.

Have you noticed how casually you moved from "I don't want to hurt his wife and family" to should I seek "comfort in having an affair with my friend while I try to figure things out" ?

In other words, you'd trash his life, destroy his marriage and toss his wife and 2-yr old out on the street to see if it fixes what you see as your problems?

Does that sound right to you ???

Mr. Lucky

May 23, 2013

seriously, if you are a good person send what you wrote in this post to your husband in an email. my answer to leave him is no. focus on being a good wife most of all and the focus on your responsibilities in this marriage!

my 50 CENTS you know what... MY DOLLAR!

May 23, 2013

seriously you and a BEST FRIEND are leaving with eachothers problems and creating a relationship out of those problems and thats gonna give you a certified, bonified marriage.

OH YEAH WOOOOOOOO! problem solved.

you know what im going to stack up a mountain of dynamities right now and see if by igniting them ill take care of the problem of not taking out my trash tonight.

yup hey guys it worked. i blew up my house but the trash was taken OUT!

May 23, 2013

my favorite quote of them all

I want to hurt him as little as possible and I know he's going to be devastated if I do leave him ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

how do you want to HURT someone as LITTLE as possible.

example in comparision if it happened which it wont..ever

me" hey buddy i want to hurt you as little as possible so im going to shove this knife between the third intercostal rib right below your colar bone where all your nerves are the most sensitive but hey buddy i dont want to hurt you that MUCH. your lung may collapse and you may have a tension pnuemothorax which will ultimately lead to an overbearing pessure on your heart and finnally lead to cardiac arrest but i LOVE YOU !!!!!"

buddy: ok i understand right here man. high five!

quote. Back to the leaving my husband thing. I love him????????

reallllyyyyyyy?

where in this post could i have ever come to knowledge of that. someone who says they love their husband. hasnt slept with them in over a year. flirts and is considering having an affair , is playing kissy face with another man..... ive understood alot in the way of this. words are just words. what people do tells you about them.

mam just say it. your attracted to another man because hes in law school and makes big bucks and your husband works to get the scraps he uses to feed his family and sits in the backround defeated by a wife who wants to leave him.

hungry because he gave all he could and now someone with a full tummy gets to walk to the better life ahead.

man .....MANNNNNNNNN.

wooooooooooowwwwwwwww

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

May 23, 2013

Simple -

I don't think I've done a good job of explaining the situation. Or maybe I am triggering a few issues for you? I have tried my best here to be honest about a very difficult and complicated situation, but I may have missed some things.

First off, in case you missed it, or I wasn't clear: it is not my choice that there is no sex in my marriage. My husband has been struggling with erectile dysfunction for some time. It is because I am feeling so deprived in that department that I am even considering having an affair. Maybe the best thing is just to leave--that is what I am trying to work out. I am clear on the fact that I can't continue to be celibate any longer!

You made reference to me not kissing my husband and that also isn't right. We do often. We have a close relationship and get along well--it's just not passionate and not intimate anymore and hasn't been in a long while.

What I was saying would be insane would be trying to have a child with my husband, given the misgivings I am having about our relationship. Not staying with him.

I am absolutely not thinking about leaving my husband for my friend (I don't think I ever described him as my BEST FRIEND as you keep saying, but he is a close friend and has bee since we met in school several years ago). We are both having troubles in our marriages and have ended up seeking comfort from each other. I do not want him to leave his family for me and I feel terrible that the comfort I get from him add to problems for him and his wife. At the same time, I want to be there for him because he really does need someone right now. I have been struggling to remain his friend and not cross the line. A few weeks ago we kissed (this was the first time since we started dating at 19 that I have kissed anyone but my husband). I am scared of where it's going to end up if we continue on this path, but we have gone there yet. At all. I do not want him to leave his wife and I have no illusions whatsoever that we might end up together at the end of all this. I am certainly not thinking about leaving my husband FOR him.

Oh and I married him because we were young and in love. That was 12 years ago. Things have changed. And I am very sad about that. I just don't know if it's better for each of us to keep struggling trying to make it work at this point.

May 23, 2013

Wow, Simple - you're posted a lot more while I was working on that reply!

A couple more points you've raised that I want to clear up:

My husband makes plenty of money. My husband is not working to "get the scraps he uses to feed his family". For one thing, we have no kids and, for another, I have a successful career of my own. I think you may be projecting a bit here? None of this has anthing to do with money, or success. My husband, myself and my friend are all successful professionals, well out of school by this point.

And, yes, I really do love him. If I didn't I wouldn't be going through much of a struggle here--leaving would be a pretty obvious answer. I recognize that leaving him will hurt him. If/when I do it, I want to minimize the pain it causes. I was hoping I might get some advice on how best to accomplish that. What's wrong with that? Are you suggesting I should stay with him for the rest of my life to make him happy even if I am not? I don't think that make either of us happy in the end and I don't want to waste his time in a marriage that isn't working any more than I want to waste my own.

May 23, 2013

heres something.

since there is no clarification.

have you ever tried to help your husband with his erectile dysfunction. advise him on what he should do. tried different things to see if the lack of intimacy could be made up for.

this whole thing about not being in love anymore i consider non-sense. to me, it really is. You dont fall out of love you fall out of feelings. thats across the board here, obviously. not that i have settled i can actually take time to get to the core of this.

in all honesty i have a photogenic memory i dont know if i cross hashed something with what i read in a different post, with yours.

and yes you should end this relationship with the other man, as two, married people who have different responsibilities. your choice to leave your husband should not have anything to do with his leaving his wife. you are confusing him and ruining something his wife has. a family.

dont take what you cant have for yourself. thats the truth here and i think it fits.

second it has to do with problimg solving. having said you went to law school i beilieve harvard or yale is where you went. sure its easy to develope emotions outside of a marriage if your filling your emotional space with what your marriage doesnt have and become giddy about it. thats how marriages break apart.

first ED isnt something your husband can control. no use in being resentfull or mad. thats energy in the opposite direction not the right one.

plain and simple.

and no i am not suggesting that you be unhappy but no one is perfectly happy and no one has a perfect marriage. case and point this part of the forumn. you say you have no illusions but you cant accept the reality of your life and enhance it with who you choose. whats wrong with that, you stopped trying.

you asked whether you should leave this is my advice. dont cross over emotional feelings with actual love and put a temporary badge and say this is what we have now. you say that you dont share anything in common anymore. its because your sharing everything you do and want to do with everyone around you except your husband.

your not happy with your marriage because your happy outside of it. doing everything but something in a marriage you have now.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

May 23, 2013

to be honest if you say you arent in love with him, but you love him let me tell you. thats how love actually is. accepting someone without the constant need to feel something for them or about them. you sound like you need to be constantly gratified. i understand that it may be difficult for you two sexually but since you make so much money toghether there is an option. adoption.

there are things you can do to help this. your husband is probably embarrased about the fact he has problems there. who will support him during that struggle. the person who is his wife.

i want you to take consideration to the fact and not resentment.

since you already are having an emotional affair its difficult to see sexually, what propects your husband has. thats why its hard to think about this marriage anymore. because you already stepped in a direction where you are replacing feelings lost over time. he could do quite a few things to stimulate you. try new things that dont involve his penis. how about that? it may be awkward but atleast hes trying and your doing the same so its nontheless awkward for you both. maybe if he became more confident in time he could get it up with certain types of medication and support from his wife. maybe he cant. hes no less human and i think hes wanted sex alot longer in his life then you have since he has ED

May 23, 2013

Have you noticed how casually you moved from "I don't want to hurt his wife and family" to should I seek "comfort in having an affair with my friend while I try to figure things out" ?

In other words, you'd trash his life, destroy his marriage and toss his wife and 2-yr old out on the street to see if it fixes what you see as your problems?

Does that sound right to you ???

Mr. Lucky

No - totally doesn't sound right. Not what I was trying to say, although I see how it came across.

The way I look at it is this: whether I am unfaithful to my husband is my business; whether he is unfaithful to his wife is his.

I am not sure whether the better choice for me is--given how I feel and the fact that I (not through my choice) find myself in a sexless, passionless marriage--I should leave my husband first and have sex with someone else after or whether having sex outside the marriage might actually lead to figuring out some sort of a non-traditional arrangement with my husband that could work for us. As I said, I do love him and there are aspects of our relationship that really value--it's just not enough for me.

As for my friend. He has pursued me. He is the one who kissed me. I did not initiate any of what has happened between us. (I have turned him down a number of times, and recently realized that--given the state of my marriage--I wasn't really sure why I was saying no anymore.) As I said, I think it's mainly his responsiblity whether he decides to be unfaithful to his wife. I don't believe, whatever happens, that I will be the cause of any trashing of his life or tossing out of his wife or child. If I did believe that was a realistic possibility, I wouldn't do it. That said, I am ambivalent on the question of whether I can put myself in the role of being the "other woman". Truth is, I think the problems in his relationship are at a point where he'll likely to be looking elsewhere (maybe already is, for that matter) if we don't end up there soon.

Thanks for the comment. I think it's a fair point, especially given the way I framed things.

May 23, 2013

to be honest there a re a million and one options but they all tie in the fact ending the emotional affair before it becomes a real one. with a tide of emotion overwhelming who your husband is and what it means to you because of another man you cant see anything good about your husband.

there is something called talking. this is called communication. talking about your fears and wants not hideing them behind resentment for what you arent getting. i am a firm beiliever love is not deserving of itself.

this is called problem solving, mam. i beilieve your a lawyer so arguing with yourself at times must be hard.

i think there are infinite possibilities for this marriage. all in a positive direction. its hard to kick the bucket and if you are a lawyer making finanacial income by divorce clients i understand why you dont see divorce as a big deal. thats why you cant make good judgments in marriage being a lawyer. thats why good people cant both be a good lawyer and a good person. in good conscience of the fact people who live off of divorcing others cant see the prospect of marriages other than the divorce client.

i really think you need to step outside of yourself and talk to your husband about your sexual frustrations so you can turn them into intimacy. you havent got it in a while so your husbands touch might get the water works started. that might even turn him on. experiment. thats what you do in chemistry, you experiment to see what happens, am i right?

im not telling you what to do, im telling you what might turn a marriage around considering certain facts simply at "first look".

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

May 23, 2013

ill wait for a reply having made "mistake of fact" by not fully understanding certain details that i now know.

i qould politely request you actually read the rest of my posts here that i have made to your OP discounting certain previous posts.

May 23, 2013

Thanks for all the thoughtful coments Simple (much nicer to read now that you've calmed down some!).

No - I am not a divorce lawyer! I do not take divorce casually at all. That is a big part of why I have stayed with my husband as long as I have.

And yes, arguing with myself can be quite difficult.

Clarification on the ED point - We have tried various means of improving our sex life--medical and he attended some therapy. I'll admit we could try more. If I decide to stay with him we will have to.

The thing is, I am feeling like our problems are really more fundamental than the sex issues (distracting as they are--for me at least--at the moment. I really fear that we fell in love too young (I've literally known him since we were toddlers, we were friends all through school and started dating at 19), before we'd really become the adults we became. By the time I was in law school (my late 20s) we'd already been married a few years. It was then that I realized that we had started to grow apart (and, yes, I did end up flirting with my friend after I came to that realization). I've tried hard since then to make things work and be happy together.

We love each other in a comfortable, pleasant way. We get along fine. We have a comfortable, pleasant life. We enjoy recreational activities and travelling together. BUT we share little intellectual connection (and this is really important to me). He can't carry on much of a conversation about the things that are important to me (social justice issues, politics etc) and I don't have much interest in the things that he is passionate about. Between that and the lack of sexual connection, I am pondering if we'd both ultimately be happier if we went our seperate ways. If possible, I want to do that in a way that causes him as little pain as possible (recognizing that it will be very hard for him no matter what) and where we might actually manage to continue to be friends eventually. I hope that there is something out there for me that would be more fulfulling and I think he could likely find someone who is a better match for him than me.

I am interested in the perspective you come at this from Simple - do you believe it's always best to try and save a marriage? I really do appreciate your comments about what might turn our marriage around. It's just that I am at the point of wondering if turning it around is the right way to go.

May 23, 2013

since the choice of ending a relationship is always convaluted with what might be better i still beilieve, what we have as people might be the best. not all the time.

As far as intellectual conversations or intellectual input have you ever just considered that you can share those things with other people get gratification there and still enjoy the marriage in the ways, from what i can tell are pleasing. your husband doesnt need to be good except in the areas he is.

as far as divorce is concerned. im glad about mine. i dont want that women and i hope i never see her again. i honestly dont want her around. no negative feelings i just know negative things happen having been abused for over a year in anyway you could thing.

my marriage was filed with all the CLASS A reasons to divorce someone and i didnt. i let her pay for it but in all her lies she left me with some good paperwork to catch her if the day ever comes.

i would like you to think of it this way and my father told me this.

its best to share moments with other people that gratify you. ie conversations and such but not everyone is the same. the reasons we love people shouldnt be based on our personal enjoyment but really how much they are doing for us. how much they have sacrificed. how much they have lost trying to help us where we are now.

i know no women will ever be able to compete with me intellectually. im not saying that to be mean or to be rude but i dont think its possible so i get to know them and interact with them in a way thats best for us both. thats something we can share in. thats a common place thats distinctive to our relationship and thats what i see here with your husband.

i always beilieve people should try unless someone is trying to take the other persons life.

that happened a couple times in my marriage. not by me.

from all ive read in your last post you and your husband have a very healthy relationship despite certain struggles that make it difficult. all marriages are difficult its the test of the marriage that really cerifys if it ever was one or if things werent what they seemed.

as far as certain things go i beilieve it takes an entire lifetime with one person to love them the right way and for both people to reach a point where they are both, generally, for the most part if not entirely satisfied. its been their life moment by moment with someone. if two people are commited like that, there is some gold in that relationship.

i dont know how hard youve tried nor can i from some simple posts but it sounds like your husband actually loves you. for someone to be in love with you says a great deal of what that person means to you. more than any expectation that could be made. they are satisfied with who you are. who you become and want to be there for the next moment they get to share toghether. honestly both people will question a relationship at one time or another. i also beilieve the best time in a marriage is its recovery. people learn more and become very, very strong. as for the rest your husband obviously isnt dumb if he has a high paying job. hes quite smart.

his interests might be different than yours sure. two different people will always have different interests. even couples with alot in common. life and its direction changes with time but someone whos been there even while its been changing has true character to still stick around, in my book.

i honestly dont beilieve in the fairy tale endings everyone is looking for. a movie is desighned and so are books etc etc to be fantasy. fantasy is good as long as it doesnt breach beyond reality. to me reality is much better than any fantasy. ive learned that time and time again. i use to live in a fantasy world i did for almost a year. but life is great now without that dragon in my life.

since your husband isnt a tyrant i really think you two should come toghether and make some good talking points about your relationship. dont get frustrated with him.

i remember 2009 i sat in a class and the person teaching the material said i would rather stay in a relationship with someone who is willing to learn about themselves their partner and what it takes to make a relationship work than someone who is dragging you down and throwing you to the far side.

trying to make something work is usually what it takes. a marriage is as beautifull as a plant that sits in a pot thats taken care of and just like a plant if its deprived of anything it withers.

people grow, people change but no matter what people will always be different in one way or another. i think you need to find levels where you connect and not focus on areas you dont.

first you need some sexual stimulation. thats obvious. alot in a short period of time. dont rush your husband as he wont be getting much and this will make him angry but there could be talking points.

i have noticed one thing about ED the medication works to an extent the individual feels confident and comfortable with their partner. if one thing is a miss the emotion and fear will overide the medication.

your husband has probably been afraid of lack of performance. to be honest its more cognitive than anything. there have been times and i dont have ed where my fears dropped it like a flag waving in the wind.

i think really support and help along with comfortability would help this issue. learning and discovering new selves both towards eachother to fall in love with. if you changed both of you fall in love with your new persons but always remeber your husband has been around.

i lived by this staple of my own mental battles. someone who has stayed around as long as i have cant claim that its ok to leave. both investments have been made both ways one person cant claim its ok to just walk if that person has been there too. i think on one end its selfish. and really hurts someone else.

really i think this is just about establishing lost feelings. and sure there will be times where it seems like it doesnt work but if you want to get to the point where it does you have to put in that effort.

he may have ed but he loves you. my thoughts.

May 23, 2013

Simple, I've read through your posts again, and I think I've answered (and have considered) the points you've made.

A few more things:

- Re having essentially abandonned my marriage emotionally in favour of an emotional affair with my friend. I don't think that's what's happened here. The marriage had fallen apart (sex-wise and otherwise) and then my friend and I sort of rekindled this old flirtation. I agree that if I decide to work on putting the marriage back together, I will need to (at very least) re-establish some different boundaries with my friend, possibly including not having him in my life for sometime at least--the emotions I have for him at this point are too strong to try and kick-start the marriage around.

- I really do see lots of good in my husband. I just wonder if we could both be happier in other relationships.

- My references to resentment were not primarily on the ED issue, but to my broader frustrations about the state of our marriage. I don't think I am particularly restentful, either, but if we are going to end things I would rather do it before resentment builds up and we end up hating each other.

- This is a total aside from the issues raised in my OP, but I consider myself a good lawyer and a good person and believe that many of us are. I work in a field related to social justice and I am very proud of what I do.

Have I missed something?

May 23, 2013

Just read your last post Simple. Thanks for your thoughts - I appreciate you taking the time to share time. I will consider them as I try to sort all this out.

May 23, 2013

what i request are these things.

first i want you to understand because of tv and movies and books alot of things that actually happen in relationships we dont get to see. where the movie end thats where those couples have their problems.

second, i want you to actual picture without the fantasy all of the negative expieriences you might actually have with another man that you dont with your husband.

third i want you to picture with this OM what fights and yelling and screaming you dont see going on in his house with his wife and now picture that with the few moments you two are shareing.

to be honest your marriage actually sounds wonderfull. really wonderfull. except a small problem that can be overcome, i think.

its easier to see whats only going on with the people you spend time with but when you live with them different things are seen. how they get frustrated what they like when they are mad what they do when they are mad and now i want you to picture with this OM if he does have a good marriage leaving his wife and beheading her legally. now i want you to picture six years with him and him doing the same to you.if he did it to her you arent untouchable by his choices in a new marriage. we like to intertain the phantasy, the pretty while ignoring all the reality. ignoring what really happens when we live with someone.

thing about the fall-through if he decides he doesnt want to be with you and wants her back. now you arent married to either men and you are in for the hurt.

because i know it true of myself and others when we protect ourselves, WE PROTECT OURSELVES. there is no length and no measure we dont include in the fight.

sure it may seem nice because you and this other man are getting what you arent from your marriages but add that with everything your marriages are suffering because of, or more problems and most likely different problems.

ive said it any man who has a wife and has an affair isnt a good man. good men dont wint and dine another mans wife they stay away from them. they realize boundaries and they consider marriage a sacred act between a husband and his wife. not a sacred happy affair.

i really want you to think about all the uncomfortable things you arent because you cannot turn back time and you cannot turn back hearts. if you give this up, what are you really getting in exchange. the fruit eve and adam ate tasted and looked good. what happened there?

to me a good husband and a good wife only have one place they leave there heart. at home.

its easier to see things that arent there. its like that person who looks the glass and is looking at a watch or a piece of jewlery. man is that thing shiny. whats the price? i dont care i will PAY THAT PRICE. then you get what you want. looking at it all the time it doesnt look the same anymore. it looks different but really how are we looking at it. did we see something else we liked? all of a sudden it sits there. neglected, rejected and later thrown a way. we find out after buying a couple hundred maybe the first one want all that bad. funny thing is all of our new watches dont tick anymore. but the old one worked just fine. it didnt have anything to detract from its original purpouse.

its easy to rekindle an old flame. to play out what we never saw but we forget what we have and that we are trading oppurtunitys.

seriously, you and your husband were toddlers and are married. thats cute man. thats a story. man. i think thats lucky. i think thats wonderfull. i think alot of things about that, actually. you have plenty of reasons to smile. to be honest i think you need to find levels to connect.

also you said your leaving the other man out for some time. even that is setting up now for this marriage to fail. you cant limit a marriage and no one who is married should weigh options like there are at the salad bar thinking about mc donalds.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

May 23, 2013

more opinions above that i added at the end.

May 23, 2013

Thanks Simple.

I have considered all the things you've requested.

First, to be clear - I am not in any way considering having a life with the "OM". Would never want him to leave his wife and child. He has never suggested that he would. I have no fantasies in that respect. If I "give up" my husband/marriage, it would be for the possibilty of finding something more fulfilling, not the hope that I could steal my friend away from his wife and start a life with him

The rest of what you suggest seems to come down to a question of whether I should be scared of ending up in a worse situation than my current marriage. I try not to make my decisions based on fear. But you do get at the crux of issue, and exactly what I am struggling with. Is it better to stay with what I know, imperfect as it is or to try for something more. I keep asking myself if I'd rather be 80 and feeling like I "settled" or be 80 and regret taking a chance on something more (for me and for my husband). Problem is the real answer depends on whether we get the something more or not (and that I won't know unless I try).

The discussion has been helpful. Thanks.

May 23, 2013

i will leave you will final comments because ultimately it is your decision.

I have learned if two people put down the axe, the tree really wont fall.

ive learned that the consequences of a bad decision arent seen if we really dont make the bad decision.

whatever you do, do it with your husband in mind and no one else.

your good at cross examining so thats an area i dont need to talk to you about.

i really need to get to bed though and do me all day tommorow.

i really cant change any mind thats made up but i cant talk to the mind willing to entertain advice.

remember whatever choice you may you will never see anything of what could have been you will only be seeing what your choice has allowed you.

also it is in my knowledge as it exists to this day when one person is vulnerable or makes themselves that way they make themselves approachable. that has everlasting opurunities. when two people are wielding the axe, both get cutt and bad.

i know you dont want to hate eachother but you are both responsible if you do and you both can avoid that.

ill be praying for whatever decision you come to terms with and for both people to ultimately be happy toghether in this relationship or the one who is hurt the most by it, to have a day of their own peace.

goodbye mam. i am hopefull for your marriage.

May 23, 2013

also mam. ask your husband this. does he really think there is more out there than you. if his answer is no, then maybe you really have something great with this man because finding someone to be with who truely creates a world for you in their heart is the best place to be. i cant answer any questions for you but i really think its best to talk everything out with him. non-judgementally and ask him how he feels about you. maybe you will find out you are more important to him than you could ever be at a work place.

understand this and this is a cautioun. when you make your way up to the top and have everything you want. you WILL have time to think. pray your thoughts dont eat you.

and always measure this.

find out what you want, then find out what you really want. thats the crux of the issue. because what we beilieve we want isnt nescisarrily good or nescisarrily bad.

what you really want is both what you want and what you need. dont confuse what im saying. sometimes settling is more than whats out their. the other type of more is not always, better.

take it from an idiot who made blind mistakes holding the canvas of what he wanted and where it got him. he got a canvas to hang on the wall but in actuality there really wasnt any place for him to put it up because when he looked at it. what he had before he started wanting was much better now hes just got a damn canvas.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Simpleoldschool

May 23, 2013

Well, at first I was a bit riled at this too. But, I can see your point of view...

I would suggest this to you; tell your husband that you love him. Tell your husband that you are feeling conflicted about some of the loss of intamacy, and that it's very important to you. Tell him you feel you need marriage counceling and that without it the probelsm will continue to grow like cancer.

Go to the couceling, get individual couceling.

Do I think you should stay in a relationship where you are unhappy? No

Do I think you and your husband deserve a chance at regaining what was obviously important to you at one point? Yes

Take the MC slow, don't blast him with a bunch of disapointment out of the gate. Take some time with this. You've pit in years... what's a couple of months to make it right?

If you and he both are given a chance to change and listen to each other you may find you are where you want to be, if not, then at the very least you tried, and you have him a shot to make things work...

My 2©

Dan

May 23, 2013

End the emotional affair. Your "friend" is betraying his wife and child for a potential. He is not a good man, anything you created with him would be tainted by that. It would eat at you eventually, and him as well, not to mention the destruction it would cause to a small child's developent...

Trying to be a voice of reason,

Dan

May 23, 2013

The way I look at it is this: whether I am unfaithful to my husband is my business; whether he is unfaithful to his wife is his.

Couldn't disagree more. Let's say you were single, free and completely unattached - would you want to be involved with a married man? Be a participant in the lies, deception and pain? Be partially responsible for the destruction of his marriage? I understand that in your eyes, you're not the criminal here. But you'd at least be driving the get-away car and the law holds you equally culpable. I'd hope you'd hold yourself to a higher standard than what you seem to be contemplating.

As for my friend. He has pursued me. He is the one who kissed me. I did not initiate any of what has happened between us. (I have turned him down a number of times, and recently realized that--given the state of my marriage--I wasn't really sure why I was saying no anymore.) As I said, I think it's mainly his responsiblity whether he decides to be unfaithful to his wife. I don't believe, whatever happens, that I will be the cause of any trashing of his life or tossing out of his wife or child. If I did believe that was a realistic possibility, I wouldn't do it. That said, I am ambivalent on the question of whether I can put myself in the role of being the "other woman". Truth is, I think the problems in his relationship are at a point where he'll likely to be looking elsewhere (maybe already is, for that matter) if we don't end up there soon.

Ending a marriage is difficult, involving issues both planned and unanticipated. It's a time to reflect on your own role in the relationship and what can be learned and carried forward. It's a chance to be a better person and grow into being a better partner in your next relationship. Sinking into the ethical and moral swamp of an affair with a married man is the antitheses of that personal development and a completely unnecessary and unproductive one. Fix your own situation and let your friend be responsible for his...

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