Flashbacks and Mind Movies

[drifter777]

I wanted to provide a little update this morning. As I indicated I tried the technique that todreaminblue described, and it worked last night. I was able to get a full night's sleep and my thoughts are very clear this morning. I have a full day of work ahead.

 

I can now see that this whole experience has been building for several months; it did not just come out of the blue last Thursday when I had the flashback. I had been feeling a sense of discontent for awhile. I was enjoying work, but there was a sense of emptiness in general. Other than work, I was not taking part in any activities that I enjoy. In essence, I was slowly slipping into depression. Thankfully, I have never had an episode of depression. I'm beginning to think it may have been exposure to a depressed individual that was the actual final trigger. Perhaps, the sadness opened the door to let the little demon out.

 

Being rested, I am more optimistic that I can make changes in my life to be myself, and move forward. Looking back to yesterday, it is obvious as many of you probably know, there is an eerie truthful reality that is perceived through the lens of sadness and depression. I will just take it one day at a time.

 

I would consider that you may be pulled back down into the depression on a somewhat regular basis due to any number of triggers. I think that is a lousy way to live and something inside of you agrees with me.

 

You don't have to tell anyone to start working through this with your wife. You don't have to have an ultimate goal of divorce; just acceptance and peace of mind most of the time. Right now the memories and mind movies are on the rise, and taking them on head first is probably the best course of action for anyone and especially someone at your age and in your situation. I think you can try to have a conversation about this and tell your wife what it is you think you need in order to feel better. Tell her that you have attended to her physical needs for some time and now you need her to help you with your emotional needs. This seems like a reasonable approach that doesn't have to lead to high drama.

 

I'm still going to advise that you begin seeing a counselor that will help you work through these feelings.

[NewSouth]

"I would consider that you may be pulled back down into the depression on a somewhat regular basis due to any number of triggers."

 

If that is what happens, I will get my butt into counseling.

 

"Tell her that you have attended to her physical needs for some time and now you need her to help you with your emotional needs. This seems like a reasonable approach that doesn't have to lead to high drama."

 

Probably the best approach I have heard. Soften the startup of the conversation.

[TaraMaiden]

I just want to say thus far that this thread is phukking awesome.

 

Carry on.

[NewSouth]

I just want to say thus far that this thread is phukking awesome.

 

Carry on.

 

It been a great thread. It looks like it is playing out though. I don't have anything new to add. Perhaps I will start an update thread in a week or two. I will still monitor and respond to comments and input.

 

Thank you.

[road]

 

If there was a shred of truth in what I did learn about the affair, my son is my son. Supposedly the affair was over at least three months before conception. And you are right, I don't know if he could stand it.

 

 

 

 

And how do you know this to be true.

 

WW's lie. That is their MO. For whatever reason WW did not leave you. Many WW after laying their butts off repeatedly for the OM will then lie their butts of to their BH.

 

Many OM upon hearing their AP is knocked up pull a Houdini. Now WW needs a baby daddy.

 

So this leads to lie #1: The affair ended before I got pregnant.

[NewSouth]

And how do you know this to be true.

 

WW's lie. That is their MO. For whatever reason WW did not leave you. Many WW after laying their butts off repeatedly for the OM will then lie their butts of to their BH.

 

Many OM upon hearing their AP is knocked up pull a Houdini. Now WW needs a baby daddy.

 

So this leads to lie #1: The affair ended before I got pregnant.

 

There is no arguing that it could be true. I have not made any final decisions as how I will proceed. When this happened, I confided in three people: my sister, a psychiatrist friend, and another friend. I talked with my sister this morning. Not unexpectedly she did not remember our conversation from 40 years ago. Over the course of the hour we talked we did examine some breadcrumbs from the past, and we agreed that this was probably not the only affair and that my timeline and probabilities are probably pretty accurate. The psychiatrist should be long dead and wouldn't remember anyway. It was not an official appointment. I am trying to get a contact number for the friend. He has been in and out of that city for the entire 40 years. If I reach him he will be able to shine some light on it.

 

DNA be damned; I raised my son. I do not want to drag him into this. It all becomes a cost benefit equation, and cost benefit analyses in emotional matters are very individual.

 

But I can't argue with your logic.

Edited May 24, 2013 by NewSouth
grammar

[Just a Guy]

Hi NewSouth, I have read your entire thread along with what other people have had to say with some interest. My interest has been aroused because you happen to be a counselor yourself and are, or have been, in the business of advising married couples about the problems in their relationship and how to go about solving them. At the outset I would be tempted to say" Physician, heal thyself" but that would be completely out of place. I think every one is entitled to come to this forum to seek advice, vent, seek solace and so on regardless who they are or what they do for a living. Having said that I have a few things to say and at the outset I would like to say that I am going to call a spade a spade.

 

Firstly, what is abundantly clear from your posts is that you have been hiding your head in the sand like an ostrich, for thirty five years or so and have refused to face the facts of your wife's infidelities head on. You have let her ride rough shod over you during this entire period of time and have literally let her off the hook. Why you have done so is probably because you have not taken courage into your hands and held on to the bull by it's horns, metaphorically speaking. By so doing you have disrespected your self and so have encouraged your wife to do the same. In all these years she HAS NOT respected you and that is a very sad thing to have to acknowledge. This is something you have to recognize if you hope to get a semblance of relief from the mind movies and flashbacks that you talk about. These mind movies and flashbacks are just your sub conscious mind's way of telling you that there is a problem and the accompanying pain and nausea indicate the seriousness of the problem.

 

 

Secondly, you have come to this forum seeking answers and probably a means to over coming the pain which is always there in the back of your mind. The fact is that the attitude that you have displayed in seeking these answers seems to me to indicate that you are looking for a panacea for your ills and not a real solution. If it were a solution you wanted then you would be prepared to be hard nosed about it. You are still in the mood to sweep things under the carpet or bury your head in the sand. Why would you not want all the facts from your wife including all the sordid details of all her multifarious affairs. She owes you that, at least now, after forty years of marriage and all the more because you are now her principal care giver. If she is reluctant to give you these details then you know that she is still NOT remorseful. Also, your contention that this information would do you no good or would be of no use to you is wrong. Your sub conscious mind is wanting these details so that it can finally lay to rest a sordid saga which, for it, has not been settled yet or had a final closure. It is your conscious mind that is fearful of what may come out and wants to shy away from the facts. However, you may keep beating about the bush but you will not get full closure unless you take on the problem head on.

 

Thirdly, I do not understand your contention that after forty years you do not want to upset the apple cart and so would like to continue to live under the same roof as your wife but without any real affection or 'Love' for her. You are not a paid professional care giver for your wife. As per your sentiments, you seem obligated to perform these tasks for her out of some sense of responsibility because she is technically your wife. Al Gore and his wife Tipper decided to separate after forty years together and there was no infidelity on either of their parts. I believe that although they are not divorced both of them are dating other people. I guess you, too, must be in their age group so there is nothing to stop you from separating from your wife even if you do not want to divorce her and get away from being around her. Maybe then the triggers that bring on your mind movies and flash backs will eventually disappear. The fact is that you do not have to feel responsible for your wife or her ill health. She stabbed you in your back when you were much more vulnerable and literally told you to lump it when you confronted her and so she does not deserve your loyalty and tenderness at this stage. You still have a life to live away from her and you should grasp it with both hands.

 

Guess all that I have had to sy will not sit well with you but I think it needed saying. What you do with it is your own business but be rest assured unless you take the bull by the horns as I said earlier, be prepared for these mind movies to periodically torture you for the rest of your life. Best wishes!

[worldgonewrong]

As a footnote to this thread, I have to ask the following of NewSouth- not out of some prurient interest, but out of sheer curiosity:

 

with regard to the mind movies, do you see the woman who cheated on you as she was 40 years ago? Or do you see her as she is now?

 

(Before my ex-W torched everything, I had the mind movies of her as 19/20-years-old, when we met, as opposed to the 40-year old woman that initiated all this deceit.)

[merrmeade]

There is no arguing that it could be true. I have not made any final decisions as how I will proceed. When this happened, I confided in three people: my sister, a psychiatrist friend, and another friend. I talked with my sister this morning. Not unexpectedly she did not remember our conversation from 40 years ago. Over the course of the hour we talked we did examine some breadcrumbs from the past, and we agreed that this was probably not the only affair and that my timeline and probabilities are probably pretty accurate. The psychiatrist should be long dead and wouldn't remember anyway. It was not an official appointment. I am trying to get a contact number for the friend. He has been in and out of that city for the entire 40 years. If I reach him he will be able to shine some light on it.

 

DNA be damned; I raised my son. I do not want to drag him into this. It all becomes a cost benefit equation, and cost benefit analyses in emotional matters are very individual.

 

But I can't argue with your logic.

 

Oh, NS, do be careful with yourself. I identify with some aspects of your situation and you. I started posting here a year ago next month after discovering my H was having an affair with my sister-in-law. That discovery uncovered more.

 

One similarity is that the first affair was also about 40 years ago. I hadn't seen anyone else as old as I or married as long, so I've carefully kept this fact under wraps all these months. Silly now that I read your matter-of-fact inclusion of that information. It's not an area that LSers seem to pass judgment.

 

I'm also a caregiver and have gone through some life-and-death situations with my spouse as well. When you've been married this long, it's part of the territory. It makes the question of whether to leave or stay much more complicated - especially when you don't want to burden your children or other relatives with a job that usually falls to the spouse. In fact, it's pretty clear in my case that my leaving my H for too long dependent on the good will and support of MY relatives is actually what laid the groundwork for his A with my SIL. (Yuck is right.) Of course, I did not make them do the actions that may have destroyed my marriage.

 

Also, I tended to be so freaking logical and objective in my posts. I think it must be the PTSD. You sound eerily disconnected with the visceral damage of this investigation you've begun - and talking to your sister did begin it. I have spent the past year waking up several times a week with yet another realization of some event in the past and new doubts about other times. I see that as where you're probably headed.

 

I just wanted to address one matter that I just recognized in your thread. Everyone is different in their approach here, but I am particularly grateful to whoever said to me in the beginning (something like) Take what feels right and relevant and leave the rest. I see you being so appreciative and seemingly obligated to respond to each and every post, good counselor that you are. There are many ways to deliver unassailable logic and facts this painful can and should be suggested with as much respect, tact and kindness as the English language supports.

 

Nevertheless, I would simply suggest one bit of logic that you might consider for your son's sake: Is there any reason that the DNA should not be damned? Possible health decisions based on genetics?

 

Otherwise, I think that sometimes, some of us do have to weigh the necessity of brandishing every detail of our excruciating discoveries in the name of truth. Myself, I'm still weighing.

 

Have you gotten another psychiatrist or therapist lined up for this? If not, it's time! You would know that better than anyone.

[NewSouth]

@ Just a Guy

 

I appreciate your honesty in calling a spade a spade. I am actually moving slowly to where I agree with the essence of your post. Thank you for taking the time to read the thread and make such a thoughtful post.

[NewSouth]

As a footnote to this thread, I have to ask the following of NewSouth- not out of some prurient interest, but out of sheer curiosity:

 

with regard to the mind movies, do you see the woman who cheated on you as she was 40 years ago? Or do you see her as she is now?

 

(Before my ex-W torched everything, I had the mind movies of her as 19/20-years-old, when we met, as opposed to the 40-year old woman that initiated all this deceit.)

 

As it was 40 years ago.

[NewSouth]

One similarity is that the first affair was also about 40 years ago. I hadn't seen anyone else as old as I or married as long, so I've carefully kept this fact under wraps all these months. Silly now that I read your matter-of-fact inclusion of that information.

 

Age and time do matter

 

I'm also a caregiver and have gone through some life-and-death situations with my spouse as well. When you've been married this long, it's part of the territory. It makes the question of whether to leave or stay much more complicated - especially when you don't want to burden your children or other relatives with a job that usually falls to the spouse.

 

Yes, life does get more complicated as the years pass, yet I respect the posts that cut to the chase.

 

I think it must be the PTSD. You sound eerily disconnected with the visceral damage of this investigation you've begun - and talking to your sister did begin it. I have spent the past year waking up several times a week with yet another realization of some event in the past and new doubts about other times. I see that as where you're probably headed.

 

Interesting. It is PTSD, just not the military variety. I am not disconnected I have learned as have good doctors to be able to maintain objectivity in the middle of crisis. Trust me, the pain is there. Yes, I am going to be digging up bones until I am satisfied.

Take what feels right and relevant and leave the rest

.

 

Exactly. Only I can make the choice.

 

Otherwise, I think that sometimes, some of us do have to weigh the necessity of brandishing every detail of our excruciating discoveries in the name of truth. Myself, I'm still weighing.

 

This is respecting the autonomy of the individual. Everyone is different.

 

It was nice to see your perspective.

[NewSouth]

I agree with merrmeade re you seeming somewhat disconnected from this and I can see lots of valid reasons you would be, but the thing it highlights to me is that this is essentially what you did with your marriage......disconnected from it.

 

You are correct. Very prominent in the discussion with my sister.

 

You spoke of marrying for the wrong reasons, but after pages of this thread, I dont think you have said anything about ever loving your wife or being happy with her.

Or whether you feel she loved you for that matter.

 

I can't say we ever did, which is probably confirming the negative. Very sad.

[merrmeade]

This is respecting the autonomy of the individual. Everyone is different.

 

It was nice to see your perspective.

 

But what about the question of your seeing someone professionally as well (as your sister) to work through this? I am sure you know the value of it and realize that you cannot possibly "maintain objectivity in the middle of crisis" to the extent you think can or need. I'm sure also that you know all the reasons why this would be a good idea. For example, congratulations on being able to " maintain objectivity in the middle of crisis" but is that necessarily desirable all the time? And maybe your objectivity is a bit skewed and you're skirting some basics that another professional would help you recognize? I can't imagine you haven't already thought of this but then our brains can get shorted out during this trauma - the BS fog. Don't put yourself completely in the hands of your own training is all I'm saying and maybe consider the need to vent every now and then without that yoke of objectivity.

[merrmeade]

As a footnote to this thread, I have to ask the following of NewSouth- not out of some prurient interest, but out of sheer curiosity:

 

with regard to the mind movies, do you see the woman who cheated on you as she was 40 years ago? Or do you see her as she is now?

 

(Before my ex-W torched everything, I had the mind movies of her as 19/20-years-old, when we met, as opposed to the 40-year old woman that initiated all this deceit.)

 

if we were in the room together, wgw, talking to our new friend NS here and you said this, I'm sure I'd turn to you and say, "Good grief, world, to ask a question like this out of "sheer curiosity" may not reflect prurient interest but insensitivity - yes." Have a heart, world.

[merrmeade]

I hope you are okay, NewSouth. I think we were all - myself included - rather clumsy in making certain suggestions to you in this thread. On rereading, it sounded like you were really struggling to cope with the strength of your memories and still you tried to respond to each post on your thread. There was a time that the forum did more harm than good for me. Some posts felt too direct, pushy or oversimplified.

 

I don't know if there is a better way than enduring the shock and impaired functioning for a while. Trauma and pain that complex require a real-life therapist, I discovered. My obsession was getting the truth -- piecing together the real past, not the fake one that I thought we'd lived. I made my WH wrestle through it with me, witnessing every spasm and detour. We actually separated until recently. This time I said I had divorce papers ready if I was not satisfied that there were no more secrets, he understood what he'd done, who he'd been and why. I said I had no choice and could not live with him unless I was sure.

 

I am mentioning this because I thought there were some similarities with our situations -- our advancing age, spouses' fragile health and their dependence on caregivers. In spite of these issues, I delivered my ultimatum and feel a huge relief now. I am satisfied at his response, but even if I hadn't been -- because I made a stand, I'm free from the craziness.

 

I really feel this time I've purged the demons and taken possession of the last of the 'secrets.' I own my past again and can, therefore, think about the future.

 

It's never over, but I hope you are able to purge your demons and find your resolution ane peace.