therhythm Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Sex is like anything else, as much as you do it as better as you get on it. There are obvious exceptions who will never learn and those who are natural talents but for the vast majority of people as much experience you get the better you will become in the matter. Having different partners will also help you to develop more experience as you will learn different things from different people. Nothing wrong with sleeping around if you are single...
Phoebe Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Sex is like anything else, as much as you do it as better as you get on it. There are obvious exceptions who will never learn and those who are natural talents but for the vast majority of people as much experience you get the better you will become in the matter. Having different partners will also help you to develop more experience as you will learn different things from different people. Nothing wrong with sleeping around if you are single... Having lots of different partners doesn't automatically mean that you're getting better at sex. Two of the best sexual partners I've ever had both mentioned that at some point in their life a regular partner taught them how to be better in bed. The couple of hump and dump types that I've been with in the past were terrible, lazy and selfish in bed. 2
CryForNoOne Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Whether someone is "good with women" or not is 100% irrelevant to this conversation. I do not need to be a physicist to know that free fall occurs at 9.8 m/s, nor do I need to be an electrician to know that that standard voltage of electricity in the US is 120 volts. There are simply some facts that can be acclimated by gaining a collective "database" of repeat occurrences and then coming to a conclusion. This is one of them. If I posted this question on a forum where everyone in the United States could respond, no doubt everyone would have a different "opinion" and a good amount of those would color the discussion or shift it away from the intended topic out of ulterior motives. I am not saying that anyone has tried to do that so far, but when people do things such as dismissing a point of view because it appears "juvenile", one must wonder why they are so ready to shove it under the rug. As far as the men who are not "good with women", I would even be more so inclined to hear what they have to say considering that they are the ones who have experienced sides of human nature that many normal people will never have to see. So in this discussion, the ones who I feel can contribute the most are the ones who are on both sides of the spectrum, whether it be that of the cocksman or the lonely virgin. Still, because I believe in an open and democratic society, I will listen to all points of view. Whether someone is "good" (I'd rather say "experienced") with women is extremely relevant. Your analogies are not comparable because those are physical attributes in nature that can be empirically observed and quantified. You cannot precisely measure romantic relationships. I am ready to shove his opinion under the rug because I know from EXPERIENCE that his approach will not work for building lasting relationships. You asked the question if there is a case for sleeping around using his style because it better prepares you for relationships. I am emphatically telling you his approach does NOT work. It empowers him to consistently hookup and reach the cusp of an LTR. But then he has NO IDEA what to do other than treat a low self esteem girl (only ones who stick around) like $h!t or walk away. It also enables him to maintain a high level of confidence with women DESPITE the fact that he is probably very insecure. And one should hope he is insecure, otherwise the explanation for that type of behavior is that he is a sociopath... 1
CryForNoOne Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Advice? No one is taking advice. I am taking opinions though. All of the people I know who are good with girls are I guess what you call "naturals". Most people at my age don't "learn" how to be good with girls. I suppose as I grow older, naturally the people who are good with women will demarcate into two camps, the "naturals" and the guys who learned to be good by ordering a product off of the Internet. I've learned at this phase that if you aren't attractive, you aren't getting anywhere. I was a virgin when I got out of college and was not good with girls. I "learned" and never ordered product off the Internet. The first thing YOU need to do is ask out that girl who obviously likes you instead of waiting for her to club you over the head (she won't). Also just curious, Harvard, MIT, Lesley? 1
therhythm Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Having lots of different partners doesn't automatically mean that you're getting better at sex. Two of the best sexual partners I've ever had both mentioned that at some point in their life a regular partner taught them how to be better in bed. The couple of hump and dump types that I've been with in the past were terrible, lazy and selfish in bed. That is maybe your own experience but the truth is that sex is no different that any other subject in life. While you can learn the most from a given teacher, learning from many teachers will also give you different inputs and ways to do things. Not every person is the same and not everyone likes the same things, if you just learn from a few partners the probability that you may not know how to properly satisfy the next one is much higher than if you had many different partners with different tastes when it comes to sex. The most important thing you need to have is of course to be willing to learn and to be willing to pleasure your partner, if a person is selfish will be selfish always, he/she will not learn anything because they don't find it important enough to try to learn it. If you have had problems with selfish lovers it has nothing to do with how many people they have slept with but with their selfish character.
dreamingoftigers Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 That is maybe your own experience but the truth is that sex is no different that any other subject in life. While you can learn the most from a given teacher, learning from many teachers will also give you different inputs and ways to do things. Not every person is the same and not everyone likes the same things, if you just learn from a few partners the probability that you may not know how to properly satisfy the next one is much higher than if you had many different partners with different tastes when it comes to sex. The most important thing you need to have is of course to be willing to learn and to be willing to pleasure your partner, if a person is selfish will be selfish always, he/she will not learn anything because they don't find it important enough to try to learn it. If you have had problems with selfish lovers it has nothing to do with how many people they have slept with but with their selfish character. I've had the same experience. Men without regular partners but high-number counts have also really stunk in bed for me too. In fact, the sexual chemistry with the two men I devirginized was off the charts in comparison to most of my other encounters. Most likely because they had a relatively clean slate and were watching for "my" responses instead of a generic "threshhold." 3
therhythm Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) I've had the same experience. Men without regular partners but high-number counts have also really stunk in bed for me too. In fact, the sexual chemistry with the two men I devirginized was off the charts in comparison to most of my other encounters. Most likely because they had a relatively clean slate and were watching for "my" responses instead of a generic "threshhold." Or because you have a fetish for virgin guys... Saying that a virgin guy has been one of the best sex you have ever had is telling me the quality of sex you have had in one only sentence! I guess when someone doesn't know better, not bad seems the equivalent of good... Edited May 22, 2013 by therhythm
dreamingoftigers Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Or because you have a fetish for virgin guys... Saying that a virgin guy has been one of the best sex you have ever had is telling me the quality of sex you have had in one only sentence! I guess when someone doesn't know better, not bad seems the equivalent of good... LOL, I've had more than just virgins. Jeepers, my own husband is a Sexual Addict. It is a generalization of what I have experienced overall. I was also in long term relationships with both of them. The first one, we waited six months to complete the deed, so he knew his way around me pretty well by then. Same with the other, a waiting period where we got to know each other physically. I didn't fall dead below the waist by 20! 1
Author Pompeii Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 Well. It seems this thread has grown quite a bit. Time to address some things. It sounds like he might have plenty of experience of starting and ending relationships, and of casual sex, but what about maintaining relationships? I'm sure he'll be fine when the time comes. In a much better state than I, that's for sure. OP, that is the philosophy of a foolish, young, misguided, man. Lol. But still, chances are that he will be more successful than anyone on this forum when he leaves college. You'll learn that treating others like a piece of meat or s**t is the way to success?! Well, if these girls didn't like being treated like used up gum stuck to a wrapper, then he wouldn't have the success he has now. Some of these girls that he has "disposed of" have come back to him repeatedly. I'm not making a case arguing for treating others like crap. I couldn't even pull it off considering I'm not even attractive. If there is a lesson to be learned here, it's that treating women like disposable objects yields a higher success rate than being a "nice guy". Is it something I'd do? No. Is it something I'd advocate for? No. Why? Because it's not part of my nature. If you want to play the game, these are the rules that you must play by. All of the players that I know all have some Machiavellian tendencies. They do whatever it takes to win and that's what has gotten them to the mastery level of success with women. To me, success with women is having options at hand - and lots of them. Women want to have "the perfect gentleman". The guy who treats women with respect yet has hordes of women lusting over him, reinforcing his value in her mind. They settle for the next best thing: the player. No one wants to be a castrated male in a relationship with a controlling woman that has infinitely more experience than you do whether it be life or sexual. That relationship is inevitably doomed to failure. Of course, one could just walk away but as someone said earlier, sex is important to many men and going without for long periods of time sex is not something they wish to do. Of course, everyone wants to find their picturesque-perfect person for them and find "the one" and live happily ever after. But I am a realist and I know that given my past failures and my current lack of success that I will probably never find that person and if I do, it will be when I am near death and way past my prime. So yeah. Whether someone is "good" (I'd rather say "experienced") with women is extremely relevant. Your analogies are not comparable because those are physical attributes in nature that can be empirically observed and quantified. You cannot precisely measure romantic relationships. I am ready to shove his opinion under the rug because I know from EXPERIENCE that his approach will not work for building lasting relationships. You asked the question if there is a case for sleeping around using his style because it better prepares you for relationships. I am emphatically telling you his approach does NOT work. It empowers him to consistently hookup and reach the cusp of an LTR. But then he has NO IDEA what to do other than treat a low self esteem girl (only ones who stick around) like $h!t or walk away. It also enables him to maintain a high level of confidence with women DESPITE the fact that he is probably very insecure. And one should hope he is insecure, otherwise the explanation for that type of behavior is that he is a sociopath... But whether they are empirical or not is irrelevant. They can still be readily observed. By observing a relationship over a period of time, I can easily come to a conclusion of who holds the power in that relationship. When the man holds the power, the relationship usually sails smoothly. When a woman is steering the ship, the relationship is headed for being sand barred on the beach. That's how it has been in all of the relationships I've seen with friends. A lot of women let emotions get the best of them and it wreaks havoc on the relationship. For some reason, there is always a default of the girl being of "low-self esteem" or whatever because she decides to go with a player. It should be quite known that players know what buttons to push on women. So it is not only "low-self esteem" women that get with them. And as I said before, most players exhibit Machiavellian tendencies. Whether that constitutes sociopathic behavior is an entirely other discussion.
Author Pompeii Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 I was a virgin when I got out of college and was not good with girls. I "learned" and never ordered product off the Internet. The first thing YOU need to do is ask out that girl who obviously likes you instead of waiting for her to club you over the head (she won't). Also just curious, Harvard, MIT, Lesley? That saga is over. I'm not asking her out. School is over until September. There would be no point. That girls isn't doing any clubbing over MY head that's for sure. I've seen how girls act around guys they REALLY want and judging by her response, I can see that she was just being friendly. I was a fool for thinking otherwise. I go to an excellent school in the city of Cambridge. That's all you need to know.
Pillow Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Well. It seems this thread has grown quite a bit. Time to address some things. I'm sure he'll be fine when the time comes. In a much better state than I, that's for sure. Lol. But still, chances are that he will be more successful than anyone on this forum when he leaves college. Well, if these girls didn't like being treated like used up gum stuck to a wrapper, then he wouldn't have the success he has now. Some of these girls that he has "disposed of" have come back to him repeatedly. I'm not making a case arguing for treating others like crap. I couldn't even pull it off considering I'm not even attractive. If there is a lesson to be learned here, it's that treating women like disposable objects yields a higher success rate than being a "nice guy". Is it something I'd do? No. Is it something I'd advocate for? No. Why? Because it's not part of my nature. If you want to play the game, these are the rules that you must play by. All of the players that I know all have some Machiavellian tendencies. They do whatever it takes to win and that's what has gotten them to the mastery level of success with women. To me, success with women is having options at hand - and lots of them. Women want to have "the perfect gentleman". The guy who treats women with respect yet has hordes of women lusting over him, reinforcing his value in her mind. They settle for the next best thing: the player. No one wants to be a castrated male in a relationship with a controlling woman that has infinitely more experience than you do whether it be life or sexual. That relationship is inevitably doomed to failure. Of course, one could just walk away but as someone said earlier, sex is important to many men and going without for long periods of time sex is not something they wish to do. Of course, everyone wants to find their picturesque-perfect person for them and find "the one" and live happily ever after. But I am a realist and I know that given my past failures and my current lack of success that I will probably never find that person and if I do, it will be when I am near death and way past my prime. So yeah. But whether they are empirical or not is irrelevant. They can still be readily observed. By observing a relationship over a period of time, I can easily come to a conclusion of who holds the power in that relationship. When the man holds the power, the relationship usually sails smoothly. When a woman is steering the ship, the relationship is headed for being sand barred on the beach. That's how it has been in all of the relationships I've seen with friends. A lot of women let emotions get the best of them and it wreaks havoc on the relationship. For some reason, there is always a default of the girl being of "low-self esteem" or whatever because she decides to go with a player. It should be quite known that players know what buttons to push on women. So it is not only "low-self esteem" women that get with them. And as I said before, most players exhibit Machiavellian tendencies. Whether that constitutes sociopathic behavior is an entirely other discussion. Haha. You sound very impressionable; here you are going to bat for your idol: your friend. You defend him like he's Socrates and you're Plato. Would you date your friend too? If you were a girl or a gay guy? Tell me: would you want to date him? Rap stars, actors and athletes can sleep with lots of women, but I know very few who are good with them. 1
Author Pompeii Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 Haha. You sound very impressionable; here you are going to bat for your idol: your friend. You defend him like he's Socrates and you're Plato. Would you date your friend too? If you were a girl or a gay guy? Tell me: would you want to date him? Rap stars, actors and athletes can sleep with lots of women, but I know very few who are good with them. It doesn't matter whether I'd date him or not. He gets results. 1
therhythm Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 It doesn't matter whether I'd date him or not. He gets results. Your friend play by his own rules and is wise by doing so. Today's day is normal and acceptable that a woman sleeps around, those who speak against it are told to be old fashioned and retrogrades (I actually support that way of thinking, sex is something too enjoyable to deprive from it just because other people do not like you to enjoy your body) but if a guy understands how the game is played and decides to use the women's sexual liberation in his own advantage he is demonized and attacked by the same people who were so open minded when it was their own gender the ones that needed to be liberated! It is cynical and hypocritical Your friend is a young lad and is enjoying his time, if I would be you I would follow his example, there will be enough time to commit to a monogamous relationship once you are older, now just "carpe diem" enjoy the moment!
ThaWholigan Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Your friend play by his own rules and is wise by doing so. Today's day is normal and acceptable that a woman sleeps around, those who speak against it are told to be old fashioned and retrogrades (I actually support that way of thinking, sex is something too enjoyable to deprive from it just because other people do not like you to enjoy your body) but if a guy understands how the game is played and decides to use the women's sexual liberation in his own advantage he is demonized and attacked by the same people who were so open minded when it was their own gender the ones that needed to be liberated! It is cynical and hypocritical Your friend is a young lad and is enjoying his time, if I would be you I would follow his example, there will be enough time to commit to a monogamous relationship once you are older, now just "carpe diem" enjoy the moment! I hear you, but while I don't think it's bad necessarily to "sleep around", I think that being a "retrograde" to me isn't bad either - if it's your style, why go against it? There are those who personally benefit from it, and others who don't. The diversity is a good thing to me.
phineas Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 The very idea honestly baffles me. If a guy only wants to get off, he can just as easily (or actually way easier to) masturbate. What distinguishes sex and masturbation is sharing proximity and intimacy with another person. If someone sounds that controlling on this ground, I wouldn't feel like getting intimate with them in any shape. Everyone has had that friend or friend who fell off the face of the earth when he finally got a GF. Only to show up on your doorstep 8 months later like a lost puppy after she cheated on him or dumped him for someone else. I don't know why women do this. It was stated why men put up with it. They are afraid they won't find another woman.
Author Pompeii Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 Your friend play by his own rules and is wise by doing so. Today's day is normal and acceptable that a woman sleeps around, those who speak against it are told to be old fashioned and retrogrades (I actually support that way of thinking, sex is something too enjoyable to deprive from it just because other people do not like you to enjoy your body) but if a guy understands how the game is played and decides to use the women's sexual liberation in his own advantage he is demonized and attacked by the same people who were so open minded when it was their own gender the ones that needed to be liberated! It is cynical and hypocritical Your friend is a young lad and is enjoying his time, if I would be you I would follow his example, there will be enough time to commit to a monogamous relationship once you are older, now just "carpe diem" enjoy the moment! Don't you get it? I CAN'T play the game. In order to play "the game", you must have Machiavellian personality traits which I do not possess. You must do everything in your power to get what you want - at whatever cost. I have already stated multiple times that I will not become that person. Even if I forced myself to be that way, it would create cognitive dissonance within me that would be at odds with my true personality, in effect creating a schism between my true personality and the one I have adapted. The harrowing effects prolonged over a period of time are something that I would wish to no man. It is no fun to be at odds with yourself. I am currently attempting to allay these desires until I can see a prostitute in the fall when I travel to Amsterdam.
TheGuard13 Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 According to him, the more experience one has with women, the less likely he will be pushed around in a relationship when the time does come. Umm...sort of. But that has next to nothing to do with sex. It has to do with actually being in relationships and knowing how to set boundaries about your happiness and what you will and won't tolerate, not with just randomly sleeping around. Sexually, he views inexperience as a bane, something that women will inevitably hold against the guy even though they do not say it. If a girl has massively more experience than a guy, she will hold it over his head and she will be the one to gain the upper hand in the relationship. As a guy, you apparently always want to have the upper hand or else you will become another one of the many pussy-whipped men in relationships. He said that you want to be able to walk away at a moment's notice and throw everything away if it all falls apart. While it's a good idea not to be so invested in something that you couldn't walk away if it got bad, it sort of sounds like he has some power issues. There's literally no reason why you should need to "have the upper hand" in a relationship. You should only need to have confidence and inner strength. He's probably a bit too obsessed with power games giving his "player" status. 1
joystickd Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I think the main thing is having confidence. Confidence in yourself and abilities. When it comes to dealing with women you can't put the P on a pedestal. You can't be afraid to look at a woman and tell her "Look just like I got you I can get someone else so if you don't like what I'm doing hit the door". They have to understand they can be replaced without hesitation. I look back on what happened to me and I got told that because she understood I wasn't waiting for her to think about it. It really surprised her that I had an FWB and was trying to talk to another female even though I liked her. Which I really did but I had no plans of waiting around for her to figure out what she wanted.
serial muse Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I actually think he's very intelligent. He didn't get into this school as a juvenile frat boy. Though I do not agree 100% with his insight, I do believe that there is a balance of power that runs through all relationships. One person always holds that power, whether it be 51-49 or 75-25. In the relationships that are 51-49, they appear equal to the casual observer, but if one turns an intense eye towards the interactions of the two, one will see who has that *slight* advantage. So if you think that we live in a utopian paradise where relationships are and can be 50-50, you better wake up and smell the coffee. The expression "she's got him by the balls" and "pussy-whipped" don't exist for the hell of it. I think that the one obsessed with power dynamics, who looks for it compulsively in every aspect of relationships and determines behavior accordingly, is generally the one on the losing end. Better to let that anxiety go and do what you want to do. 1
Author Pompeii Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 I think that the one obsessed with power dynamics, who looks for it compulsively in every aspect of relationships and determines behavior accordingly, is generally the one on the losing end. Better to let that anxiety go and do what you want to do. I definitely wouldn't say my friend is "on the losing end".
ThaWholigan Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I definitely wouldn't say my friend is "on the losing end". Perception is everything 1
therhythm Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I hear you, but while I don't think it's bad necessarily to "sleep around", I think that being a "retrograde" to me isn't bad either - if it's your style, why go against it? There are those who personally benefit from it, and others who don't. The diversity is a good thing to me. I don't have anything against "retrogrades" as long as that attitude is about their own way of living their life but when they would try to dictate how I do need to live mine then is a total different story Don't you get it? I CAN'T play the game. In order to play "the game", you must have Machiavellian personality traits which I do not possess. You must do everything in your power to get what you want - at whatever cost. I have already stated multiple times that I will not become that person. Even if I forced myself to be that way, it would create cognitive dissonance within me that would be at odds with my true personality, in effect creating a schism between my true personality and the one I have adapted. The harrowing effects prolonged over a period of time are something that I would wish to no man. It is no fun to be at odds with yourself. I am currently attempting to allay these desires until I can see a prostitute in the fall when I travel to Amsterdam. I think the one who doesn't get it is you. You don't need to have any kind of Machiavellian personality to embrace into casual sex and be successful on it. The only thing you need to do is to understand that women like sex as much as you do and if you have the minimum physical traits required for it and you show confidence and ability approaching women you will be successful, you don't need to be a "bad guy" or to lie to get what you want, there are enough women who do not need to be lied to in order to have sex with you in a casual way.
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