LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 ok so I'm new here and been the OW for 7 months now and currently am, I feel VERY alone as its really hard to talk to anybody about our "relationship", but to answer your questions here goes; yesterday my MM told me he loved me for the first time, we text everyday which starts as a "goodmorning baby" type text and ends with a sweet goodnight message. It reallly hurts to know he still lives with his wife but I do love him its really hard this situation, we see each other at least a few times a week and wow i'm in deep.. it sucks but like i said i really do love him. I am a good person with a big heart and treat everybody nice and with respect except it seems myself by ready feedback that alot of other mistresses get. He calls me his girlfriend and I call him my boyfriend, hes older than me by 10years and I we started out as him being my boss in a workplace that forbids boss/employee contact so i quit my job to protect his. This, right now is the first time I've ever opened up about our relationship even though its anonymus but it feels good to be here and have feedback. i dont know what to do. Somedays I wanna write a book about our affair just to get it off my chest.
ComingInHot Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 ladies, in light of this topic, I am wondering something (.. I can feel ya'll shaking your heads thinking, oh great. What now. )* These things that your MM/MW told you, if you had heard them from a single person, would you have had the knee-jerk reaction of, "oh whatever! You're just trying to get some" or would you believe them even more because they have no reason to lie? I'm just wondering because as I sit here, I remember the first time my H told me he Loved me and was going to Marry me. It was after just a couple weeks of meeting him and I thought he was completely full of it. It wasn't but ten months later, I believed him because he purposed etc... Is there something about the "way" that a WS says things that sway you into believing? (And I know there are three gals here that this question doesn't apply to... they Did get or are happy in their A & that's fine for what works for them *)
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Our relationship, from the get go we set out guidelines and had open conversations about what was going on, I from the first time meeting him was instantly "in lust" as he tells me he was/ He was more concerned about our work finding out than his wife, and I feel as though our relationship has progressed as a "normal" relationship would be expected to, i dont know how long of our 7mnths of being together he has been in love with me, Ive been in love with him for a long time, he said it to me yesterday for the first time while saying goodbye in a way kinda like hes been saying it for forever... he was in a hurry to get to work, he was running late so he kissed me said "see you after work, ok, i love you, bye" then left... it all happened so fast i had to call and ask him, did you just say you love me?! he replied yes baby, i do That made my day
findingnemo Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 A couple of posters have described the lies their xMMs told and then wondered why they still miss them. That's a very good question and one I've pondered for years. How is it that human beings are still able to love a person who hurts them again and again? Sometimes we have to choose between two imperfect situations. For xMM, it was a choice between leaving his M and being with me and staying in his M. Leaving his M meant losing 100% access to his kids, losing the person with whom he had gone through both good and bad times (his W), losing their mutual friends and the extended family that comes with M. Losing me meant losing his best friend, the person he could tell anything, the one person (apart from his mother) who he knew with absolute certainty loved him and whom he loved. We didn't have much except our time together. I understood his choice. There was really no way he would forgo all that and cause everyone such pain just so that he could wake up next to me every morning. If it were me, I would have done the same thing. The lies of omission enabled him to keep seeing me. It was selfish on his part but the fact is his lies served us both. His lies gave us more time together. Had he been open, we would have been fighting from day one. Some argue that I would have been able to make the decision to leave him had he not lied. In my case, I'm not sure what I would have done but leaving him would have been hard. I would have fought for us. So while I may be angry about the lies, I am aware that I was in a sense complicit in them. I needed them in order to get a little part of him. I can tell you why I still love him after all the drama. As a party to the A who knew he was M, I made a choice by default to set aside all my values just so that I could be with him. I didn't need to lie because I was single. He needed to lie because he was M. In the A, he too made a choice to set aside his values. We are equally to blame. So I can't "hate" him for something I am guilty of. I think some APs know on a basic level that As create negative atmospheres and understand deep down that the MM or MW wasn't out to purposefully hurt anyone. So while our minds say the WS' are evil, our hearts know that they can't possibly be unless we too are evil. So your heart loves him/her still. I hope that makes some sense. 8
thefooloftheyear Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 A couple of posters have described the lies their xMMs told and then wondered why they still miss them. That's a very good question and one I've pondered for years. How is it that human beings are still able to love a person who hurts them again and again? Sometimes we have to choose between two imperfect situations. For xMM, it was a choice between leaving his M and being with me and staying in his M. Leaving his M meant losing 100% access to his kids, losing the person with whom he had gone through both good and bad times (his W), losing their mutual friends and the extended family that comes with M. Losing me meant losing his best friend, the person he could tell anything, the one person (apart from his mother) who he knew with absolute certainty loved him and whom he loved. We didn't have much except our time together. I understood his choice. There was really no way he would forgo all that and cause everyone such pain just so that he could wake up next to me every morning. If it were me, I would have done the same thing. The lies of omission enabled him to keep seeing me. It was selfish on his part but the fact is his lies served us both. His lies gave us more time together. Had he been open, we would have been fighting from day one. Some argue that I would have been able to make the decision to leave him had he not lied. In my case, I'm not sure what I would have done but leaving him would have been hard. I would have fought for us. So while I may be angry about the lies, I am aware that I was in a sense complicit in them. I needed them in order to get a little part of him. I can tell you why I still love him after all the drama. As a party to the A who knew he was M, I made a choice by default to set aside all my values just so that I could be with him. I didn't need to lie because I was single. He needed to lie because he was M. In the A, he too made a choice to set aside his values. We are equally to blame. So I can't "hate" him for something I am guilty of. I think some APs know on a basic level that As create negative atmospheres and understand deep down that the MM or MW wasn't out to purposefully hurt anyone. So while our minds say the WS' are evil, our hearts know that they can't possibly be unless we too are evil. So your heart loves him/her still. I hope that makes some sense. Well said...Makes all the sense in the world... Its refreshing to read someone who actually "accepts" their role in the mess. I know there is a lot of hatred and bitterness for the MM/MW, the reality is that if the OW/OM wasnt lied to at the outset about the marital status of the MM then they, as the other party, need to accept their part... Thanks for your perspective TFY 4
Got it Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Wondering how many of you OW were swept into a lot of lies by your exMM/MM/OM that made the relationship more intense. For example, did he say he was going to divorce? Wanted to be with you? Wanted to marry you? Wanted to have kids with you? Were his soulmate? Were his "real" wife? What types of things did he do to "prove" his love to you? How long was your affair? Who ended it? Why? Yes he said he was going to divorce, wanted to be with me, I don't recall us discussing kids then, nothing about soulmates (I find that terminology humorous). I am not one to get caught in the fairydust of anything so would have corrected him if he said anything about a "real" wife. I reminded him, if he got into too much wishing what the reality was and the ability he had to make his wish a reality so outside of that put up or shut up. I don't want to hear someone wax poetic on something that they are only discussing and not doing. So I wanted action not words. He may have said things but I really took someone's advice and tried to turn off the volume and just pay attention to the actions. I knew what a high probability this situation was going to lead me to getting hurt so I tried to keep myself grounded as much as possible. Hope for the best prepare for the worse. 1
Got it Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 There is no special formula on whether someone's words are going to become actions or just pie in the sky thinking. It comes down to the specific details in each situation, the emotional make up of the WS, the events that ensue, etc. The best advice is to watch actions, personally I think don't assume or even truly believe they will leave, prepare for the fact they won't and go from there. Yes in my case, I left and he left but if you talked to me at the beginning of it there was no way of truly knowing and many would jump on small details showing potential indications he was never leaving, using me, etc. and vice versa. At the end of the day the only person who knows is the WS and they may not even know. It is a high stake gamble if one is looking for a jackpot winning of a WS leaving and a happy ever after. It may happen, statistics show a definite bell curve but the reality is the bell is biggest in the middle and so one is most likely going to end up in some muck in the middle. Everyone does things differently. I did things the way it worked best for me, I had a short timeline, a clearly laid out agreement (in writing), and certain expectations/milestones that needed to be hit to show forward progress. And to be honest I also always had one foot out the door, kept my life busy and fulfilling, and considered him the icing on my cake. He was not taken seriously or given priority status until well into separation period. And I asked myself every day, what are my dealbreakers, what can I compromise on, and what works best for me. From the start, I said I wanted a man that wanted me not needed me and vice versa. He is amazing, I love him more than I have loved anyone, but I made sure that I loved myself more so if I was being fed bull then I would spot it and do something about it. You don't truly know until you are looking in the rearview mirror and by then it is too late. Everyone makes certain assumptions, hopefully they are reasonable ones based on some verification and then you hope for the best. But the relationship cannot define you, so if it is lies, it doesn't evaluate one's self worth, it isn't about whether one is worthy enough or good enough. It means it just doesn't work for both parties. The most important lesson I have learned, with all relationships, is that you should never be afraid of walking away. If you are afraid you are subjecting yourself to a lesser role. Walking away can mean standing up for yourself and saying this is my bar, make it or eat my dust. Know your value and be vocal about it. The lies don't matter, what matters is what you do if you are told them. 3
tryingto Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 There is no special formula on whether someone's words are going to become actions or just pie in the sky thinking. It comes down to the specific details in each situation, the emotional make up of the WS, the events that ensue, etc. The best advice is to watch actions, personally I think don't assume or even truly believe they will leave, prepare for the fact they won't and go from there. Yes in my case, I left and he left but if you talked to me at the beginning of it there was no way of truly knowing and many would jump on small details showing potential indications he was never leaving, using me, etc. and vice versa. At the end of the day the only person who knows is the WS and they may not even know. It is a high stake gamble if one is looking for a jackpot winning of a WS leaving and a happy ever after. It may happen, statistics show a definite bell curve but the reality is the bell is biggest in the middle and so one is most likely going to end up in some muck in the middle. Everyone does things differently. I did things the way it worked best for me, I had a short timeline, a clearly laid out agreement (in writing), and certain expectations/milestones that needed to be hit to show forward progress. And to be honest I also always had one foot out the door, kept my life busy and fulfilling, and considered him the icing on my cake. He was not taken seriously or given priority status until well into separation period. And I asked myself every day, what are my dealbreakers, what can I compromise on, and what works best for me. From the start, I said I wanted a man that wanted me not needed me and vice versa. He is amazing, I love him more than I have loved anyone, but I made sure that I loved myself more so if I was being fed bull then I would spot it and do something about it. You don't truly know until you are looking in the rearview mirror and by then it is too late. Everyone makes certain assumptions, hopefully they are reasonable ones based on some verification and then you hope for the best. But the relationship cannot define you, so if it is lies, it doesn't evaluate one's self worth, it isn't about whether one is worthy enough or good enough. It means it just doesn't work for both parties. The most important lesson I have learned, with all relationships, is that you should never be afraid of walking away. If you are afraid you are subjecting yourself to a lesser role. Walking away can mean standing up for yourself and saying this is my bar, make it or eat my dust. Know your value and be vocal about it. The lies don't matter, what matters is what you do if you are told them. Wow! Great post!!!! This doesn't apply just to an affair relationship... it should apply to ALL relationships! Thank you! 1
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 I can tell you why I still love him after all the drama. As a party to the A who knew he was M, I made a choice by default to set aside all my values just so that I could be with him. I didn't need to lie because I was single. He needed to lie because he was M. In the A, he too made a choice to set aside his values. We are equally to blame. So I can't "hate" him for something I am guilty of. I hope that makes some sense. See this is what goes through my mind day after day. In life I feel, today could be our last day, I was in a terrible marraige and left my H before I started the affair but thats how I am, I knew I had feelings for my MM and I couldnt imagine sharing myself with two people, one being the MM who is so gentle, kind and mature and the other my xH who was very mean and all take very little give. My MM on the other hand has a dieing mother who he doesnt want to stress out with the news of a pending divorce as well in-law and his W who treat him VERY poorly and have a track record of influencing children against him now that hes married to her so he's terrified of what will happen after they divorce. So we communicate all day and everyday about everything and see each other a lot, he shares photos and stories of his parents and his siblings know about me and are happy for him to be finally treated right. Our values I think are with each other and I treat him like a king like hes never been treated before and he treats me like a queen which I appreciate and love him for. To us its a sticky situation but I think and hope our values and morals are good, we better each others lives and in the end isnt that all that matters? I speak of his W nicely and when she's sick or has issues we talk about them and I am actually concerned and ask her well being all the time. I do hope one day we can be together, and hope its not all not just smoke and mirrors, but we are at core best friends and lovers and both have never been happier. So I like to think that we have good values, thoughts?
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 I dont feel any guilt, never been involved with or had any other MM nor would I ever plan on it, as well as he,,,, I can tell by the way we connected physically the first time that I was the first OW he had touched since being married he and I took it slow and I could feel his nerves in our first kiss, but it really felt right He asks me all the time, why him, he thinks I am much more physically attractive than himself, hes not rich and doesnt take care of my financially, although we both more than take care of eachother emotionally, he asks me all the time if I am happy and "ok" with our current situation, I think if I made him choose her or I he would choose me, but I cannot do that, I respect his feelings far too much to make him rush our relationship.
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 He tells me everyday at least a few times he misses me on days when for life reasons we cant see eachother. I really do feel happy. Although I am human and the day I saw them together, and they didnt look like lovers just people who were in the same place together I had that overcoming feeling of "hey, thats my man" kind of jealousy, but I was honest to him about that and he was honest to me that his heart is with me and we do belong to eachother. Sorry about the multiple posts, just thoughts keep arising, and it feels good to get them out... this really is the first time in our 7mnth relationship I have ever "vented" about my feelings and such. So thank you all for listening and I appreciate and respect all your feedback, and feel a kinship already with pervious posters here
So happy together Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 ladies, in light of this topic, I am wondering something (.. I can feel ya'll shaking your heads thinking, oh great. What now. )* These things that your MM/MW told you, if you had heard them from a single person, would you have had the knee-jerk reaction of, "oh whatever! You're just trying to get some" or would you believe them even more because they have no reason to lie? I'm just wondering because as I sit here, I remember the first time my H told me he Loved me and was going to Marry me. It was after just a couple weeks of meeting him and I thought he was completely full of it. It wasn't but ten months later, I believed him because he purposed etc... Is there something about the "way" that a WS says things that sway you into believing? (And I know there are three gals here that this question doesn't apply to... they Did get or are happy in their A & that's fine for what works for them *) For me, it was when his words had action behind them. If he'd just said things and done nothing, I would not have believed him. 1
findingnemo Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) LilGirl, I know what you're saying because I felt the same way. But I think we must learn to separate issues in order clearly define what is what. In an A, there is the internal life (ie WS and AP's R) and then there is the external life which involves other Rs for both parties. Between the WS and AP, there may very well be love. The real thing even. There may even be 100% truthfulness between them. They may treat each other kindly and lovingly. Neither of them needs to be resentful of another human being. In my A, I never spent time discussing the BW and I always asked how the family was. I genuinely had nothing against her. So if my values were to be weighed based on how I treated xMM, then I was an angel. The problem arises from the external life and the effect the A has on other Rs. The WS has to be the opposite of kind and loving in order to perpetuate the falsehood of a faithful H and loving father and the same goes for a WW. To be kind and loving to a OW, the MM must take away from the BW and his kids. He does this by lying to them, by stealing their family time in the case of the kids. He basically jeopardizes the safe haven that is a necessity for the kids by risking a D. As for his W, he gives away a lot more than just kisses and touches. Most Ws believe that their Hs think they are special. They remember every compliment and come to rely on their Hs always having their backs. They depend on the eternal existence of the love the H professed. The WH is basically pulling the rug from under her feet. By having an A, he is saying his W is not special. He is saying that their private little world which all lovers have isn't unique. While she has chosen him and no other, he finds her replaceable. I could go on but the point is a WH is giving to another woman things which the BW feels belong to her. Obviously his values here are either non-existent or have been put on the back burner. A lot of people don't discuss the effect of being in an A on an AP's family. Many Moms and Dads will be heartbroken to learn that their son or daughter (no matter the age) was in an A. Personally, this was my worst nightmare. In my part of the world, the scandal would have reflected really badly on my parents and siblings. While the West is said to be more "modern", almost all the Americans and Europeans I know subscribe to pretty traditional values. An AP is basically trashing all other important Rs in order to have the A. So while your values remain in place for your lover in the A, they are tossed out for everybody else. The thing about values is that they are applied universally. You can't say you love children and then hate someone's baby. You (general) can't say you believe in your parents M which has been long and loving and then engage in destroying someone else's M. The only way anybody can justify being in an A and still believe they have certain "values" intact is by refusing to see the bigger picture and focusing only on the one R - the A. I'm not an expert, far from it. When I was an OW, I hardly thought these things. I was not comfortable with the situation but I didn't know why. When I got M, I began to understand the reality of what xMM and I had done. I now had my own family that I wanted to protect and preserve. I understood my xMM's W's position. Our A put her and her kids in jeopardy just as my xH's As did to me. I understood xMM better too. I realized that even if I had an A, I would never leave my family. There was simply no justification for it. (Sorry this was long!) Edited May 21, 2013 by findingnemo 1
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Nemo, I appreciate your feedback and who knows maybe one day my MM will turn into my xMM and my thoughts will change, see this is what I'm scared of, cause I really am a nice and respectful person, I generally always put other before myself and feel alot in the past that this had led me to be taken advantage of. So I really hope this isnt the case in my current relationship, cause I feel my MM is the first person I have been involved with who truely does care about my feelings and trying to set me up for success in life with his emotional support, he reminds me all the time I need to be my own #1. On the flip side I'm 30 and he's 41 and I've never been involved with such a mature man so maybe his kindness, affection and attention is something I could find in many older men, I just happen to love this particular one... I really hope my heart doesn't get destroyed, which, from numorous google searches about mistresses and their MM I feel that's where they all lead no matter how wonderful and fulfilling they seem during the A....
SunshineToday Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Nemo, I appreciate your feedback and who knows maybe one day my MM will turn into my xMM and my thoughts will change, see this is what I'm scared of, cause I really am a nice and respectful person, I generally always put other before myself and feel alot in the past that this had led me to be taken advantage of. So I really hope this isnt the case in my current relationship, cause I feel my MM is the first person I have been involved with who truely does care about my feelings and trying to set me up for success in life with his emotional support, he reminds me all the time I need to be my own #1. On the flip side I'm 30 and he's 41 and I've never been involved with such a mature man so maybe his kindness, affection and attention is something I could find in many older men, I just happen to love this particular one... I really hope my heart doesn't get destroyed, which, from numorous google searches about mistresses and their MM I feel that's where they all lead no matter how wonderful and fulfilling they seem during the A.... I hate to tell you this but your MM is very textbook. From reading your few posts I can tell, you are living the typical OW fog. He says what you want to hear so & you "want to believe" You are so happy to hear him say ILY, even though he is married and still sleeping with (oh yes, please don't believe he is not sleeping with his wife) saying ILY to someone doesn't mean SHYT unless it's backed up by actions. Okay your 11 year age difference may not be the worst, but I see a 41 year old man hooking up with a woman just our of her 20's. RED FLAG. He seems to be in this with you, not because of how he feels about you---but because how YOU MAKE HIM FEEL ABOUT HIMSELF. And that is not love. It's so hard to see it when you are in the affair though, so I'm glad you are googling and seeing that most of the times--these kind of affairs end very badly and many people get hurt. Best of luck. 4
LilGirlandOW Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 See this is all what worries me Its hard cause I feel I am in deep, so you think he is still having sex with her and myself? ouch that part makes me grossed out, why do you think a MM does that? If sex with her is loveless and mundane, when they would do the deed in the past it was as many marraiges become missionary and borring, why have passionate sex with the OW regularily as well with the wife still? This boggles my mind, not trying to pretend it doesnt happen but why?
SunshineToday Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 LilGirl~ Q: If his sex is so loveless and mundane with his wife (as you say he tells you)then why is he with her? Why not leave? Who wants to live like that? A: Because their marriage is probably a lot different then the picture he is painting for you. 2
MissBee Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 A couple of posters have described the lies their xMMs told and then wondered why they still miss them. That's a very good question and one I've pondered for years. How is it that human beings are still able to love a person who hurts them again and again? Sometimes we have to choose between two imperfect situations. For xMM, it was a choice between leaving his M and being with me and staying in his M. Leaving his M meant losing 100% access to his kids, losing the person with whom he had gone through both good and bad times (his W), losing their mutual friends and the extended family that comes with M. Losing me meant losing his best friend, the person he could tell anything, the one person (apart from his mother) who he knew with absolute certainty loved him and whom he loved. We didn't have much except our time together. I understood his choice. There was really no way he would forgo all that and cause everyone such pain just so that he could wake up next to me every morning. If it were me, I would have done the same thing. The lies of omission enabled him to keep seeing me. It was selfish on his part but the fact is his lies served us both. His lies gave us more time together. Had he been open, we would have been fighting from day one. Some argue that I would have been able to make the decision to leave him had he not lied. In my case, I'm not sure what I would have done but leaving him would have been hard. I would have fought for us. So while I may be angry about the lies, I am aware that I was in a sense complicit in them. I needed them in order to get a little part of him. I can tell you why I still love him after all the drama. As a party to the A who knew he was M, I made a choice by default to set aside all my values just so that I could be with him. I didn't need to lie because I was single. He needed to lie because he was M. In the A, he too made a choice to set aside his values. We are equally to blame. So I can't "hate" him for something I am guilty of. I think some APs know on a basic level that As create negative atmospheres and understand deep down that the MM or MW wasn't out to purposefully hurt anyone. So while our minds say the WS' are evil, our hearts know that they can't possibly be unless we too are evil. So your heart loves him/her still. I hope that makes some sense. This is such a great post, filled with clarity . To the bold: this is so true! I felt the same. I KNEW for the sake of the A he had to lie by omission. BSs get lies for one end, and OW get lies for another end most times. But as OW, we're complicit in it. Most of us know it won't last forever, but in the mean time, the sweet lies which keep it going are fine by us. 2
Got it Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 LilGirl, I know what you're saying because I felt the same way. But I think we must learn to separate issues in order clearly define what is what. In an A, there is the internal life (ie WS and AP's R) and then there is the external life which involves other Rs for both parties. Between the WS and AP, there may very well be love. The real thing even. There may even be 100% truthfulness between them. They may treat each other kindly and lovingly. Neither of them needs to be resentful of another human being. In my A, I never spent time discussing the BW and I always asked how the family was. I genuinely had nothing against her. So if my values were to be weighed based on how I treated xMM, then I was an angel. The problem arises from the external life and the effect the A has on other Rs. The WS has to be the opposite of kind and loving in order to perpetuate the falsehood of a faithful H and loving father and the same goes for a WW. To be kind and loving to a OW, the MM must take away from the BW and his kids. He does this by lying to them, by stealing their family time in the case of the kids. He basically jeopardizes the safe haven that is a necessity for the kids by risking a D. As for his W, he gives away a lot more than just kisses and touches. Most Ws believe that their Hs think they are special. They remember every compliment and come to rely on their Hs always having their backs. They depend on the eternal existence of the love the H professed. The WH is basically pulling the rug from under her feet. By having an A, he is saying his W is not special. He is saying that their private little world which all lovers have isn't unique. While she has chosen him and no other, he finds her replaceable. I could go on but the point is a WH is giving to another woman things which the BW feels belong to her. Obviously his values here are either non-existent or have been put on the back burner. A lot of people don't discuss the effect of being in an A on an AP's family. Many Moms and Dads will be heartbroken to learn that their son or daughter (no matter the age) was in an A. Personally, this was my worst nightmare. In my part of the world, the scandal would have reflected really badly on my parents and siblings. While the West is said to be more "modern", almost all the Americans and Europeans I know subscribe to pretty traditional values. An AP is basically trashing all other important Rs in order to have the A. So while your values remain in place for your lover in the A, they are tossed out for everybody else. The thing about values is that they are applied universally. You can't say you love children and then hate someone's baby. You (general) can't say you believe in your parents M which has been long and loving and then engage in destroying someone else's M. The only way anybody can justify being in an A and still believe they have certain "values" intact is by refusing to see the bigger picture and focusing only on the one R - the A. I'm not an expert, far from it. When I was an OW, I hardly thought these things. I was not comfortable with the situation but I didn't know why. When I got M, I began to understand the reality of what xMM and I had done. I now had my own family that I wanted to protect and preserve. I understood my xMM's W's position. Our A put her and her kids in jeopardy just as my xH's As did to me. I understood xMM better too. I realized that even if I had an A, I would never leave my family. There was simply no justification for it. (Sorry this was long!) I disagree, values are not universal. If they were, we would never kill period, for example. So yes I can say I support my parents/brothers/sisters/friends marriage but not support all others. It may make someone hypocritical but it doesn't mean that it isn't a value of theirs it just means that it is a selective or limited value. Societies do not tend to have universal values as there are exceptions to most rules.
findingnemo Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 I disagree, values are not universal. If they were, we would never kill period, for example. So yes I can say I support my parents/brothers/sisters/friends marriage but not support all others. It may make someone hypocritical but it doesn't mean that it isn't a value of theirs it just means that it is a selective or limited value. Societies do not tend to have universal values as there are exceptions to most rules. Your values (your own) are applied universally. In other words, applied in all situations. If you value marriage, you can't respect the marriage of your parents and disrespect the marriage of your neighbours. You can't claim to value marriage as an institution and have an A with a MM without setting aside that value. Support is an entirely different thing. And I was referring to personal values, not societal ones. 1
Quiet Storm Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Its hard cause I feel I am in deep, so you think he is still having sex with her and myself? ouch that part makes me grossed out, why do you think a MM does that? If sex with her is loveless and mundane, when they would do the deed in the past it was as many marraiges become missionary and borring, why have passionate sex with the OW regularily as well with the wife still? This boggles my mind, not trying to pretend it doesnt happen but why? Because sex is what most married people do. Many MM enjoy sex with BW. Even if it's missionary, it's still a connection for mutual pleasure. MM just want different sex with a different person because it's more exciting for them. One of my favorite comedies is Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. I've probably watched it 100 times over my lifetime. I know what's going to happen next. There's no mystery. But I crack up laughing every time. Why? Because I like it. It's funny. People do seek excitement & new experiences, but they also find comfort in the familiar & the routine. With many MM, history & comfort trump excitement (if they must choose). OW sex is often extra sex. In addition to their married sex. It's like taking a vacation. Or eating desert. Or renting a fancy car when yours is in the shop. You can still love your house, even though you love being on vacation. You can still love meatloaf & potatoes, even if you love cake, too. You can still love your old car, and also enjoy a new one. Some OW think it must be either/ or. If MM loves OW and have sex with OW, then he doesn't love BW or have sex with BW. If he's attracted to OW, then it means he's not attracted to BW. If he's cheating on BW, then he doesn't want to be married to BW. Many MM love his wife AND the OW. Sexually, there are things they love to do with BW, and there are things they love to with OW. BW may have certain sexual skills, OW may have other ones. He may love BW's boobs, & love OW's legs. It's not a competition to see who meets MM's needs the best. It is a collaboration, a combined effort. OW and BW are both meeting different needs & offering different positive qualities. Many women say they cannot romantically love more than one man at a time. If they love their OM, often their sexual feelings for their husband fade. If most women are like this, it's understandable why many OW assume that MM feels the same. And men know this... they know that all women want to be "the one", the primary relationship. So they allow both BW and OW to make assumptions & draw conclusions. (and most people assume & conclude based on their own feelings, what they would do). Many men are capable of romantically loving more than one woman. They can appreciate & enjoy the qualities of each woman, simutaneously. I call it "a la carte"...getting different needs met by different people. 7
Author Goodbye Posted May 21, 2013 Author Posted May 21, 2013 See this is all what worries me Its hard cause I feel I am in deep, so you think he is still having sex with her and myself? ouch that part makes me grossed out, why do you think a MM does that? If sex with her is loveless and mundane, when they would do the deed in the past it was as many marraiges become missionary and borring, why have passionate sex with the OW regularily as well with the wife still? This boggles my mind, not trying to pretend it doesnt happen but why? Sometimes they do it so the wife doesn't suspect anything different is going on.
bellasue Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 That's exactly what xMM did. His wife wanted to be intimate once every couple of months, mostly if she was feeling bad about something or he was down. (Of course this is what he said). One time when we were supposed to meet, she called him and told him to be ready to be romantic that evening. He freaked out and we canceled our plans. I was very upset *knowing* what they would be doing. Later he told me it was a complete failure and he felt like he was cheating on ME by having sex with her. As much as I tried to say I would never wish Erectile Dysfunction on anyone......it did give me a little ego boost knowing he could only be aroused by me. *disclaimer* I know he could totally be lying about that too.
ComingInHot Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 lilgirlandow wrote, " n they would do the deed in the past it was as many marraiges become missionary and borring," I think Less than what you assume lilgirl* The whole boring sex thing, can be just same old same old With same old. You may be Very surprised by what MM's Wife would say about how often they, you know... make love:o, scromp like bunnies, shake the walls this way, that way, in ways You may not have graduated to yet? I don't know. YOU Don't Know. But you could... if you Asked Her?? Stop him from lying. To You*
Praying4Peace Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 My exMM saved all the lies for her and told me very few. I knew whenever they had sex and he would make every excuse in the book not to 'cheat' on me. I saw texts so I know its all true. However, with each Dday it was harder to say no to her and still convince her he was all in emotionally. Its very hard to have a deep emotional and sexual connection with someone and then be with another, at least for SOME men. He was like that. A bit girlie, no? However, I'm sure with me out of the picture he has no problems getting it from her. She is attractive and cute and I think for him it was just lack of emotional intimacy with her as compared to me. When you can't get emotional/physical from more than one place then you make do with what you have (and make it better). Ah well.
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