That's Crazy! I'd Never!

[ComingInHot]

So reading through some responses of late, I've noticed some insinuated, "that's crazy" & "I'd never" comments w/regards to A's.

Is it really that crazy as a BS, to "monitor" by whatever means available, the whereabouts of the WS?

Is it more crazy as a WS to resign and comply to the demands of the BS when the A is "outed"?

How more or less crazy is it that an OW/OM actually engage in an A w/a MM/MW in the first place?

 

After going through having to deal w/a my H's A, I'd have to be honest and say I've learned I AM some kind of crazy.

I'm a little crazy for allowing WH back for a second chance.

I'm a but crazy for putting up w/how OW treated me after she outed the A.

I'm sort of crazy for allowing my H to treat me SO bad during the A.

Wrap it all up with a bow, and that a whole lot of crazy!

 

What's your take on crazy but try to also be crazy nice of you can with such a topic*

Edited May 17, 2013 by ComingInHot

[Jenn.Smith]

It's not crazy to lay down some rules. But it is crazy to go to far. You cannot change people or control their actions. And it is crazy to think you can. In example. Before affair your ws wasn't good at communicating feelings. After affair you ask them to try. But you can't make then suddenly know how to communicate. Or want to.

 

The best recovered R I saw post affair was when the bs conpletely trusted the ws again. Now that sounds crazy! No email checking no phone checking. The bs said it was because they weren't going to become their spouses parent. They were confident enough that the confessed affair was not going to repeat. And that if it did, they'd just leave. The BS was hurt and angry but decided to choose forgiveness and move on. BS's conpletely unselfish love broke WS. Its been a long time and things have gone well as far as i know.

 

I don't think many people can do the above. Most would call that crazy. But I get where BS was coming from. They couldn't live in a constant state of watch dogging. I am sure it was not easy but they did it.

[ComingInHot]

I did the "watch dog" thing as you say for about to months. It was exhausting!

When I allowed WS to come home to attempt R, I told him (in small understandable words) that I needed what I needed to feel secure. I knew he was/is smart enough that he could , if he wanted find a way to see her/communicate w/her. He knew that'd be it. D.

 

I think I was crazy to even consider R w/him, but I did.

I actually think it was more crazy for the exOW to even cheat w/a MM then to come after me when it didn't work out for her.

 

But I can see (like you jenn.smith) how difficult it would be to let go of the promises MM gave you to then see try R and then for the AP to let go and move on.

[dichotomy]

I went into total watch dog super spy mode for a long time, and still in partial watch dog even now. I have received therapy in the past after d day for my feelings of esteme and depression. Is that crazy? or just an appropriate counter measure and emotional reaction? I am fine with this crazy.

 

What i am not fine with - is that my own moral code on cheating is weakened after so many arguments with wife. I sometimes think if I was out of town on business trip....and some nice looking gal - who did not care if I was married - offered it up no strings.... Ya thats real bat **** crazy and THAT bothers me - because I would have never even thought this - considered this - at all before this all happened. Crazy - I'd never, well now maybe I would....think about it.

[Ninja'sHusband]

It's not crazy to lay down some rules. But it is crazy to go to far. You cannot change people or control their actions. And it is crazy to think you can. In example. Before affair your ws wasn't good at communicating feelings. After affair you ask them to try. But you can't make then suddenly know how to communicate. Or want to.

 

The best recovered R I saw post affair was when the bs conpletely trusted the ws again. Now that sounds crazy! No email checking no phone checking. The bs said it was because they weren't going to become their spouses parent. They were confident enough that the confessed affair was not going to repeat. And that if it did, they'd just leave. The BS was hurt and angry but decided to choose forgiveness and move on. BS's conpletely unselfish love broke WS. Its been a long time and things have gone well as far as i know.

 

I don't think many people can do the above. Most would call that crazy. But I get where BS was coming from. They couldn't live in a constant state of watch dogging. I am sure it was not easy but they did it.

 

Doing this when someone has proven themselves to be liars and cheats is just inviting further injury. You are right it's crazy. It's also stupid. For some people the temporary snooping will give the peace of mind that their WS is indeed trustworthy again and maybe there will be a happy ending. If the WS can't accept some consequences, then they are not truly remorseful and R should not happen. I'm glad I kept checking up on WW, because I found out what an idiot I was for thinking she was trying to make things work. No, she was still lying and manipulating for her own selfish means. You are right that it's exhausting to snoop like a crazed parent but when forced to reevaluate you have to verify for a while. It meant the difference between me thinking my wife had only been with OM 1 night and knowing the truth, that it had been 4 months. I found she was still texting him. I learned that our marriage was dead with no chance of revival. To stay would only continue to poison me and prolong the damage that builds when your spouse doesn't work. I'm so glad I know the truth and that I needed to get the hell out of that marriage. She wanted to rebuild trust. She used lies, wrong decision. Some WS's make better decisions, I'm truly happy for those couples. It makes me happy that some people can R and I don't tell people they shouldn't.

 

But some people shouldn't R, you prolong the hell and damage if you don't provide yourself with what we all need....THE. TRUTH. Sometimes, as we've seen over and over, the WS needs a BS who has had enough and has the resolve to let go completely and draw their boundaries for what is acceptable. There's STDs to worry about, out of marriage children, secretly deteriorating feelings etc. What you don't know CAN hurt you.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Ninja'sHusband

[Furious]

The greatest tool for a cheater is their spouse's trust, without that trust there wouldn't be the opportunity to be "working late" or "that business trip" or "going out to run a few errands"....etc.....

 

Trust is fluid and is precious in any relationship. On d-day the betrayed spouse can't even trust that the sky is blue or believe a single thing a WS says. Also if there's gas lighting by the WS is just adds to the crazy making.

 

Becoming hyper vigilant is common in the early days and months ahead and it's reason is twofold in that it's a naturally instinctive attempt as self protection from further harm and it allows the betrayed spouse to base any decisions they make as to whether to end the marriage or attempt reconciliation.

 

Hyper vigilance is a form of dealing with trauma and is usually short lived until the betrayed spouse feels satisfied they have the truth. A truly remorseful WS will be proactive in being completely transparent and work hard at restoring the trust they broke.

 

Eventually, with time, the need to verify and second guessing will subside as the reconciliation enters a new stage. Trust is very fragile and it takes both the betrayed and former WS to rebuild it.

 

For those who have never been betrayed may see the process of reconciliation as a whole lot of crazy, but for those who are reconciling "crazy" has a whole new meaning as it's a perfectly normal and natural stage in early days and months after d-day.

[Bittersweetie]

Is it really that crazy as a BS, to "monitor" by whatever means available, the whereabouts of the WS?

Is it more crazy as a WS to resign and comply to the demands of the BS when the A is "outed"?

 

Immediately after d-day, my H did monitor me. He wanted me to text when I got places, and wanted full access to my phone, email, FB, etc. At first this made me uncomfortable but I soon realized this was a small, tiny way to rebuild his trust and rebuild my integrity.

 

After six months, I messed up. I had an email acct where I'd saved one email. He saw it. At that point he said, I am not going to monitor you anymore. You can do what you want. And I deleted the account, and afterward monitored myself. I worked on rebuilding trust and integrity myself. I understood that he wasn't my watchdog; he was my husband. It was my job to monitor myself if that makes sense.

 

Now, three years plus later, maybe he still does monitor me...it doesn't matter. I have nothing to hide. He can look at what he wants...I tell him everything anyways.

[MissBee]

As are a crazy-making enterprise.

 

My dad is a serial cheater and I have watched my mom throughout the years put recording devices in his car, getting phone bill print outs, installing keylogger software and the list goes on. No doubt his behavior has led to this....but it is no way to live.

 

I know women who even just dating, before cheating happens, they believe monitoring their man is the norm and the prudent thing to do to prevent cheating. I've never subscribed to that school of thought and I have so much in life already that I have to oversee and worse if I'm married with kids, I don't want becoming an FBI agent assigned to my H to be another job.

 

I understand how in the beginning of reconciliation where zero trust exists why a BS would do that...but I also think the spouse should be volunteering this info and being transparent and the BS shouldn't be the one still seeking and searching. But I do get how one can feel like one has to gain the control one lost during the A and gaslighting by doing it.

 

I have been around serial cheating since birth and I think my tolerance for a cheating spouse may be less than others who have had no such experience. I think that because I've resented my mom for staying, in my attempt to avoid repeating her mistake, I may be apt to just drop a cheater without working on it. However, I also know while I am in the situation I may feel differently. But for me, if I need to monitor you hardcore and it's not a case where I feel like you've laid yourself bare and are being transparent, I simply don't see myself having the energy or inclination for the exhaustion that comes with hypervigilance.

[ladydesigner]

Actually I think Reconciliation is the craziest thing to try at the moment:laugh:

 

After the 1st DDay I was trusting his word (and see where this led me).

 

2nd DDay I became super hyper-vigillant

 

3rd DDay I became suicidal, barely monitoring

 

4th DDay I was done with him and done monitoring

 

Today we are in R and I only monitor every now and then and verify. My WH is always forthcoming and accountable with his time and whereabouts.

 

Eventually I will not monitor at all as I was never this person before my WH and I hope to never have to be this person again.

[ComingInHot]

You know what I find crazy?!

That will all that happened, I Finally trust him again.

Every now & again I will verify but most times H verifies for me. It's pretty cool*

 

 

Bittersweetie, I think you stated my H perfectly. He understood (after a few months) that it was up to him to monitor His actions & behaviors. Not mine. He understood perfectly the consequences going forward.

 

Now what the future holds... I don't know.

I DO know I can & Will be happy*

 

After everything I'd STILL Never cheat. Now THAT'S Crazy!

[ComingInHot]

lovebites wrote, " 1

 

I respect people trying to reconcile however.

 

Usually OW's who are holding on to broken promises are still fresh out of the relationship. Over time the OW will let go just as she would with any regular relationship that didn't last. I respect people trying to reconcile, but when you start mentioning 3, 4, 5 more D-days...I'm sorry. It's hard to respect that. He clearly doesn't respect you. You clearly don't respect yourself, so how in the world are outsiders supposed to respect you?"

 

EXACTLY!! Only I think that goes for BOTH BS & OW/OM*

But, I guess lovebites that for you & me the above would be one of "our" I'd Never things.

 

AND... How freekin crazy does your post (and I'm agreeing w/you here) make the WS?!?!

Or is the cheating spouse in a category All His/Her own after continuing on after 2,3,4... DDays?

[ComingInHot]

lovebites, wrote, " Indeed, the waywards that cause multiple D-days are in a class of their own...the entitled, narcissistic, arsehole class. Once the wife & OW realize their value & worth, it won't be up to them to save him, the relationship or the marriage. Sometimes you gotta put your foot down and stand up for what's right. Divorce can be a beautiful thing."

 

(Doing my virtual "touchdown" dance) exactly again**

I WISH I could just UNRAVEL my story because (like w/most here) there is SO much more to the story. I'm afraid w/all the members getting tossed that I'd lose my BS Support (not that I wouldn't retain the great support I've also gotten from Most OW/OM as well). But I feel I need the balance. It's important But anyway, I write this because even though H & I have R'd if, IF he cheats a second time. "I'd Never" stay!

It would HAVE to be D. Here it is now... and D for me would be Just as CRAZY as staying After a second DDay because of the UnKnown things I just said I can't mention.

 

It (the D) would/could, most likely be really REALLY bad.

So, maybe Crazy is as Crazy does?! **

[waterwoman]

How's about 'that' s crazy! I'd never shag someone else's husband!' ?

 

[ComingInHot]

I was thinking how sometimes the BS has a "revenge A"...

Then that person becomes a BS, OW/OM AND an AP. EeGads!!

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I was thinking how sometimes the BS has a "revenge A"...

Then that person becomes a BS, OW/OM AND an AP. EeGads!!

 

My husband IS that person - the bs, the xom and an xap. I am the xmow, the bs and the xap.

 

It is crazy and what's crazier is if you had told me this would be what I would be walking through five years ago I would have too you that YOU were crazy.

[ComingInHot]

lil'miss wrote, " It is crazy and what's crazier is if you had told me this would be what I would be walking through five years ago I would have too you that YOU were crazy."

 

AhhHahaha. It IS Crazy!!

 

lilmiss, when you roll up all the craziness and look at your life now. What do you see?

Do you find that it's just as crazy that you & your H are still together and R??

 

I'm happy for you lilmiss'

[lilmisscantbewrong]

lil'miss wrote, " It is crazy and what's crazier is if you had told me this would be what I would be walking through five years ago I would have too you that YOU were crazy."

 

AhhHahaha. It IS Crazy!!

 

lilmiss, when you roll up all the craziness and look at your life now. What do you see?

Do you find that it's just as crazy that you & your H are still together and R??

 

I'm happy for you lilmiss'

 

I don't know. I know that there is sadness - sadness that we have lost friendships (my xom and his wife were our friends and he feels that loss as well), our circles have drastically changed, our church, etc. He has to live with the fact that a long time employee had to leave her job because of his relationship with her. It doesn't make him feel good that he is part of the cause of that.

 

Today we are okay, but who knows if tomorrow is the day he says he's leaving? Who knows if tomorrow I can't do it anymore?

 

He is now facing a possible medical issue and I have one of my own I am dealing with so we are leaning on each other for support. We are friends, we are still lovers, we are parents and grandparents. There are too many years to throw it all away. We will be friends even if we aren't together in years to come.

 

But what I have learned is that I live for TODAY. And today, it is beautiful out and I am going to make a rum and coke and go watch the sunset and he will most likely join me. We will make a good memory today and it will be one that we will remember tomorrow and next week and next year.

 

We have been through a lot together and will mostly likely go through more in the next year or two, but it has made us thankful for what IS.

 

But I digress - so sorry - haha - time for that rum and coke.

[ComingInHot]

lilmiss,

That rum and coke... it wouldn't by any chance be Captain Morgan's Spice Rum & coke now would it? That's my Dad's fav AND my H.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

lilmiss,

That rum and coke... it wouldn't by any chance be Captain Morgan's Spice Rum & coke now would it? That's my Dad's fav AND my H.

 

Haha- yes it was! Love captain but my fav is sailor Jerry.

[ComingInHot]

Frozen wrote, " vigilant...if he was going to stray, he'd do so no matter what I did or didn't do."

 

I AGREE w/you Frozensprouts. My H's a smart man. If e wanted to continue his A, he'd find a way. And it would work... for a while.

But what's done in the dark, eventually comes to light.

 

And why I'd Never do this is because of All the Time, Energy, Emotion, Distraction from my kids & family, career and life.

 

I look at my fWH, and just think how Nuts he was during his A and shake my head...

[lifelesson101]

Many years ago my first husband had long term affair. When the affair was discovered I instinctively knew I did not have it in me to monitor his every move - there was no way I was going to live like that. I also had no interest in reconciling. I did not want details of the affair, and never got any. His apologies and "groveling" that he would spend the rest of his life making it up to me were making me sick to my stomach the fist week. I filed for divorce within weeks of discovery. Maybe it was easier for me because I knew we should have divorced a long time before the affair hit.

 

My ex-H is still with his affair partner; it has been years and they are truly happy. I know he is not cheating on her. As I have said in other posts, I have to come to like her, she is not the devil incarnate, and I know they are a much better fit than we ever were.

 

Many years later. . . I am the OW. I was abruptly dumped. It was horrible, but I went away quietly and will continue to stay away without incident or drama.

 

Things do not have to get crazy. I do not get how people, even months and years later, can live with having their every move monitored by a non-trusting spouse. How an OW/OM cannot let go and continue to interfere in the life of their ex-AP? The exhaustion of living that kind of life would do me in.

[ComingInHot]

j'adore wrote, " Yeah I said that once."

 

Heya j'. I think your above remark is part of the "I'd Never" group.

I also believe many here feel the same as you did. Ie; I'd Never have an A, I'd Never cheat, I'd Never bang a MM, I'd Never ________________. Then one day people realize not only would they, but they did or are doing.

 

When I think about your story, I (and I mean it nicely*) think it's crazy you and MM still "hit it", are Both still M, MM Still hasn't filed for D (I don't know if you have or not), and the jackhole MM slapped you & you forgave him...

I have to believe there is so much more to your story that just can't be written here to make you continue w/all the crazy in your A, M & MM's BW that makes you believe and continue.

 

It just seems that A, maybe more so LTA's, would be Exhausting, crazy drama filled mascochistic (sp) relationships for the two In the A and then everyone else if there's a DDAY..

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I applaud those that are able to stand firm. But like you FS, I was a very black and white thinker - still am to some degree. I never, ever thought I would be here - truly I didn't.

 

Now that I am, I can honestly say I never want to be in that position again and I now know that I was dealing with my own deficiencies that go way back into my childhood that I never dealt with and I think I have the tools to now avoid those situations in the future. But I truly thought I had the moral fiber to stay out of it before - I really did.

 

It still shocks me today that I allowed it all - and I mean I ALLOWED it.

 

God willing I will never experience that kind of pain again nor will I inflict it on others. I just don't want to be that person anymore.

[Bittersweetie]

The only thing I really find crazy is when people say they KNOW they would never have an affair. Thinking you aren't suceptible because "you would never" is actually pretty crazy, when if you ask almost everyone that HAS had an affair (not serial cheaters because I think after the first one they know they are capable) they will tell you that they never thought that they could either. Personally I think thinking you are bulletproof leaves you vulnerable. You don't have to admit to anyone else that if the right set of circumstances occured that it could happen, but you should realize yourself.... that even if you can't FATHOM what could make you do it... that you just might.

 

Maybe it's a little different because I was a WS, but I can and will claim that I know I will never have an affair again. I saw firsthand the destruction it caused to my H. Recently a good friend of mine found out her H was having an EA, and I saw her pain up close. And finally there's the pain I felt both during and after my A.

 

I have no intention of causing that pain again...whether I'm married or even single (i.e. men in relationships will not be considered by me). Maybe that is crazy of me to think that way...but based on my own personal experience...it is not a world I want to enter ever again.

[ComingInHot]

Frozen, it not crazy to experience what you have and KNOW based on that experience that you'd Never cheat, or enable a person to cheat.

 

I also think that a little of what LHF said had a point or rather leads me to this:

As humans it is important to realize that we are capable of just about Anything. It's in the acknowledgement & understanding of this that we as individuals set Boundaries and be aware when we approach or near those Boundaries so that we can turn away from harmful horrible things such as an A.

It is Also in those boundaries that we see when others who do Not acknowledge or accept the pain and betrayal associated w/A's, so as Not to allow them to "push" or lead us to cross those lines.

 

It's crazy the power all of us can give to others to lead us down a path that we should know on she level will cause great pain to ourselves and/or others*