MyRuka Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 I can't seem to stop obsessing over what my H did. We have been married for five+ years and this past September I asked my H about a girl he told me he would stop talking to two years prior. He lied and tried to tell me she moved, that he hadn't seen or spoken to her. He didn't know that I had a print out of messages that went back and forth between them (I stumbled upon them doing work for his company). Once he knew I knew something, he confessed that he had talked to her and visited her at the bar she worked at. He swore nothing physical happened and she was just a friend he knew from going to the bars. I told him his behavior was unacceptable and that I wouldn't stand for it. I deserve better than how he was treating me and he promised he would change. I had a hard time trusting him. A few weeks later, through someone else, I find out that they once had a physical relationship before we were together. He admits to this but continues to defend himself saying he doesn't need to be accountable to me about every thing he does. He sees nothing wrong with his behavior and we end up fighting. In January, I insist we go back to the MC. The MC tells my H how destructive his behavior is and explains that most married people would not approve of what he did. My H continues to defend his behavior and disagree. We are in therapy for 3+ months but I can't help feel like I am missing something. Unfortunately, I degrade myself to snooping. I was going into his phone, pockets, social media and email accounts on a regular basis looking for something. I confess my snooping to my H in tears one morning telling him I feel like I am crazy and I am having a hard time trusting him. My H told me he wasn't surprised because that's how I found out about the other girl. Then he told me to go back to bed. In therapy, I confess to the MC and I ask if it would be reasonable to look at my H's call detail for his work phone. My H said no, that I need to trust him. The MC says he violated my trust and we are working to rebuild our relationship. My H tries to hand me his phone instead. I explained that a call detail would show that he wasn't deleting anything and that I was looking for regular ongoing contact with someone, not just a few texts here and there. My H finally agreed. Two days later, my H tells me he went to the cell phone store and that he has to tell me something. He says when I see his text detail I am going to see ongoing contact between him and a cocktail waitress at a bar he visits 2+ times a week. I tell him I can see up to 18 months of info and asked how long this had been going on. He said "over a year." Later, I learned that I can only see 3 months of his texting. The messages are gone, I cannot read what they say. My H deleted them at the end of each day so I wouldn't find them. He never came home and mentioned conversations with this girl to me. He swears they are just friends, that nothing happened. She is 27, he is 39. I can't think of what they might have in common. I synched up the texting for three months with my calendar. Some texts took place the day before I was out of town, while I was at the doctor, when he was too busy "with work" to help me prep for family holiday meals. He blew me off at a birthday party to do a "favor for a friend" and he was texting her. 28 texts and pictures (combined) back and forth in one bill cycle, same for the second bill cycle. Third bill cycle had 130 texts. That month, he texted me only 75 times. That's all I can see. And I know for a fact that on top of these texts, he visited the bar she worked at a minimum of twice a week, sometimes more. What I know for sure is that my H is a liar. He has had an emotional affair. I don't see how an emotional affair can exist for over a year and not escalate. I kicked him out of the house. My kids are 4 and 1.5. He is the great minimizer and people are telling me that I am overreacting. They tell me I will be destroying my kids if I divorce him. Now he swears he is going to quit drinking and hanging out with his buddies forever and go to therapy (so far, this seems to be true but it's been three weeks and I couldn't care less what he does now and I have no way of verifying). People say this might have been the scare he needed to straighten out. This happened three weeks ago but my relationship as I knew it is over. I am physically and emotionally sick and trying to keep myself together for my kids. I think my H would lie to save face, I think he is capable of lying again. I find it hard to believe he would change because if I wasn't smart enough to ask for a call detail, he would still be texting her today. People keep asking me how I can throw 5 years and our family out the window and yet only when I have hard physical proof can I get him to admit to a lie. I don't want to be in a marriage like this, it's not me and it's not healthy. But then why do I feel like the quitter? 2
CarrieT Posted May 17, 2013 Posted May 17, 2013 You are not overreacting. And you are not throwing five years away -- you are learning that the father of your children is not capable of keeping boundaries and keeping his marriage vows. I don't blame you for not wanting to stay in the marriage and you will need to teach your children that it is not okay to lie and keep secrets. My condolences. 4
Author MyRuka Posted May 17, 2013 Author Posted May 17, 2013 Thank you CarrieT. I keep trying to focus on my kids. They are too young to know what he has done at this point, but if I did decide to try to make it work, they would see a mom who doesn't trust their dad, who snoops, who cries, who doesn't trust and love. I don't want them to think that is what marriage is. Or family.
Yasuandio Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Honey, I know it is always easier said than done. But there is nothing like a great example to shift your paradigm. Let me tell you some things that might help put this in perspective for you. And, indeed, I wish I was as smart as you are. I have possessed a Ph.D. for 20 years - and I am now convinced that dispicable conduct on the part of my former husband was been going on under my nose for the entire marriage. I certainly relate to your situation. In 2008, we separated. That is when I seriously took a close look at the phone details - and there it was. I order all the phone details for all the years we owned those cell phones, which was about 3 years = back to 2005. There it was, same number back then. In 2012, out divorce was final after a 4 day trial - and it was a huge hassle, and cost enough to buy two very nice homes. Between 3008 and 2012, I analized those cell records a number of times. Just in the eight months of 2008 bills that I had, there were 28 hours of calls. This is more time than I talked on the phone to my now deseased mother. And he hated talking on the phone. AND - the calls were so easy to see on the records!!!!!! As, he always talked no more than 1-3 min. to anyone. But the suspitious number - 20, 40, 45, 40, 45 minuites. Sometimes just 5 or 20 min. on day off, early in the morning. I did what you did - sinced with GPS data - which placed him at the very back of a neaborhood park in those short calls on his days off - I mean he had to drive past 18 tenis courts to get his car there. The worst part of my discovery - was that these calls were to a man. (But I will tell you now, I had those cell phone records, and it took me forever to figure out and accept this fact - whatever it means, which seems kinda obvious in light of other issues in the marriage.) You are smart. Don't doubt yourself. 5 years is nothing. In 2012, when this divorce finially got finished, the marriage had been 27 years. Don't make that mistake. He was a liar when I met him. I knew it when I married him. This is a character trait that will not change. I so Admire you for figuring it out early on. God bless you sweatheart. Sorry for mispellings, ets, Yas cannot find her glasses, again. But, I just had to respond to your thread. Y PS Hi to everyone in LS land! Edited May 18, 2013 by Yasuandio 5
Author MyRuka Posted May 18, 2013 Author Posted May 18, 2013 Thank you for your response, Yas. I am sincerely sorry to learn that this is FAR more common than I had initially realized. I can only imagine the pain and betrayal you are feeling. My heart goes out to you. It's funny, as I type out my story, I realize in my head that taking a step back and reading this makes me feel kind of foolish for even questioning myself. I don't have proof that something physical happened, but he protected his relationship with this girl even after the first girl. He continued it while I cried and even after he promised to change his behavior the first time. He continued it throughout therapy because he never thought he would get caught. And he only admitted to something when I had hard evidence that he was lying. You also mentioned that you knew he was a liar when you married him. My H lied in the beginning of our relationship, but I also thought he was a dog. Over time he grew on me. People like you and me WANT to believe our men are as honest and moral as we ourselves are. We want to believe they love us as we love them. No one can fault you for believing in a man who you cared for. Who says they can't change their ways when they meet the right woman, right? And we thought that was going to be us. I am trying to be grateful to have seen this now and have the opportunity to do something about it. I know 5 years doesn't compare to 28, but perhaps you can go on to find love again? Real love? Or perhaps happiness and joy. Without the fear of deceit, lies and betrayal. Live your life for you. Stay strong. I wish you the best.
TaraMaiden Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 .... people are telling me that I am overreacting. They tell me I will be destroying my kids if I divorce him... . .....People keep asking me how I can throw 5 years and our family out the window ...... "People" like this make me mad. Tell "people" that perhaps they'd like to try living under a thousand different lies for 5 years.... how about what He is destroying? How about what he is throwing away? You've both been to counselling, and the Counsellor has been supportive of you because they could see the sham your husband is.... Tell "people" that until they know all the facts, they can keep this kind of criticism to themselves. Let them go through what you went through - then tell you the same thing. Insensitive jerks. :mad: 3
Yasuandio Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Thank you for your response, Yas. I am sincerely sorry to learn that this is FAR more common than I had initially realized. I can only imagine the pain and betrayal you are feeling. My heart goes out to you. It's funny, as I type out my story, I realize in my head that taking a step back and reading this makes me feel kind of foolish for even questioning myself. I don't have proof that something physical happened, but he protected his relationship with this girl even after the first girl. He continued it while I cried and even after he promised to change his behavior the first time. He continued it throughout therapy because he never thought he would get caught. And he only admitted to something when I had hard evidence that he was lying. You also mentioned that you knew he was a liar when you married him. My H lied in the beginning of our relationship, but I also thought he was a dog. Over time he grew on me. People like you and me WANT to believe our men are as honest and moral as we ourselves are. We want to believe they love us as we love them. No one can fault you for believing in a man who you cared for. Who says they can't change their ways when they meet the right woman, right? And we thought that was going to be us. I am trying to be grateful to have seen this now and have the opportunity to do something about it. I know 5 years doesn't compare to 28, but perhaps you can go on to find love again? Real love? Or perhaps happiness and joy. Without the fear of deceit, lies and betrayal. Live your life for you. Stay strong. I wish you the best. Aftr it became evident we were to divorce, I saw something on TV or a movie that really made me feel much better about the anger and betrayal (of which, technically - I have NO EVIDENCE OF - and he made sure to remind me of that). Well, the statement on the tele was something like "he also gave up his youth for you." And he did spend the portion of 23 of those years together with me - living under the same roof - and he had his outstanding qualities. The best quality I would say is his Provider instinct and ambition to make something of himself. He never went a day without working, and working hard. He was not a citizen of this country - his parents dumped him here, basically on the street at 17 years old, in Chicago. I'm not making excuses for him - but he had to learn language - and did not have easy life here or in his original country with a military government (his bald head had huge perminent lumps from something devistating - this was obvious to me - or his mother dropped him on the rocks in the sea when she popped him out). I loved him, I still love him, and I will always love him. He said same to me. I am only a human being. AND SO ARE YOU. You will always be connected in some way with this husband, if only because of your kids. Even without kids - it is like losing a limb - when you lose a relationship you've had for more than half your life. So honey - please listen to Tara, and people experienced here, and most important yourself. You know, cause you are smart. With kids involved, I would imagine this man's future antics, and their future affect on you might have problematic side effects on shaping the your children's characters, personalities, and expectations in life. Excuse me for writing so randomly, I am very protective of anyone that is coming up on a situation like this. Tara might agree that you investage the now psychological term "gaslighting" for future reference. At least I think you need to prepare yourself for how your mind can be jacked around without you knowing it. As for me - I enjoyed my marriage - the good parts, and that is how one must look at this. I enjoyed being his wife, I loved cooking and making a home. I love the nice things we were able to have, because both of us worked hard, and he was able to re-locate at anytime for my career - because his working industry (restaurant, painting, etc.) is all over the place. I so enjoyed my time - I am disappointed I was not as wise as you to see many things, but I was very busy in my career, and really didn't care to look. My career is over, and I have an illness, which makes this problem more difficult to deal with. But over the past years, and especially on LS, I have learned you must get happy on your own (alone), without the spouse to depend on for your happiness (that is sort of how I was in my career - presenting at conferences all over the world with my research, teaching my students that looked up to me, and being amidst colleagues that admired me. Now that I am not in this life - I have to continue working on developing and re-inventing myself. And I am doing that, even if I get stalled once in a while - I pick myself up. And I count my blessings. I have a nice house, I have nice things. I have all the art supplies to make what ever art creations I want to make. I have food, water, everything. Nice dogs, a pretty car (it's older - but it's hot). Plus I'm hot! Getting away from that toxic little Natzi has done wonders for my figure! I don't eat for emotional reasons anymore. I wear mini-skirts, hot ankle boot, I so rock. I got my hair done yesterday, put the top down on the little red beemer Z, and had the best time! I got flirted with all over the place - even at the grocery store. Can you believe that? I had so much fun! I am smiling all the time - which means, I think, that I am recovering. It is all there - I just have to do it. You can do the same thing. I so wish you luck and thinking of you. I hope it helps to see hope my mind is working on this issue. I am sure - even if it is "only" 5 years, with kids, this has got to be really devistating. I am trying to tell you to see any positive that you can see. Anything bad - try to flip it - to a good side. 1. For you and me - we have "freedom." (Of course, without kids, I have a little more than you!) 2. Your kids will be raised with great example (vs complicated, dysfunctional example). 3. You are available to possibly find a perfect partner and future great Dad for the kids while they are still young. 4. You found out early and acted before it was too late! Yea!!! (There was no intenet LS when I was married only 5 years.) 5. You can fix the homestead the way you want it! In fact, you can do what ever you want to do - you do not have to get anyone's permission or approval or imput. That's only five. Can you think of more? I will keep looking in on you. I hope I didn't overdo this. Just trying to give you incentive. Yas 5
TaraMaiden Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Good post there Yas. Yup, I'm with you on that...... Though please don't take me as any kind of authority. But I completely agree with Yas' post, MyRuka..... 1
Author MyRuka Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 Thank you Yas and Tara. I really appreciate the support and knowing that my thought process isn't insane. I agree with you both and I have said as much to my H. He keeps writing me letters and buying flowers. It makes no difference to me.... it falls on deaf ears. Yas I am really impressed with your post about how you have not let this keep you down. You go, rock on!!!!!!!! I will keep you posted on my situation, but there isn't much new to report. I am sure he will eventually grow tired of sleeping on his buddy's couch and will force my hand one way or the other. I'm really scared of going through this whole process and being out there on my own but I know lots of great women who have done this before me. My heart goes out to all who are in this situation. It's just all around bad.
GuyInLimbo Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 "People" like this make me mad. Tell "people" that perhaps they'd like to try living under a thousand different lies for 5 years.... how about what He is destroying? How about what he is throwing away? You've both been to counselling, and the Counsellor has been supportive of you because they could see the sham your husband is.... Tell "people" that until they know all the facts, they can keep this kind of criticism to themselves. Let them go through what you went through - then tell you the same thing. Insensitive jerks. :mad: BRAVO! Right on, Tara. 1
revitup Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 YAS says, I'm hot!...... I wear mini-skirts, hot ankle boot, I so rock. I got my hair done yesterday, put the top down on the little red beemer Z, and had the best time! I got flirted with all over the place. Please send pic for therapeutic measures.:)Thank you REVITUP 2
imtooconfused Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 I'm gonna get beat up on this thread, but I have to let it out... I am a firm believer that everyone has expectations and boundaries and partners should mutually respect those boundaries. If a couple doesn't mutually respect those boundaries, then they are not well suited to be a couple. Your boundary is no female friends for your husband. He has a female friend from before he met you and that crosses the line for you, end of story. But if a partner of mine had a boundary that limited my ability to have a friend from 1/2 of the world's population, especially someone that I knew before meeting the partner, I would be quicker to the trigger to break off the relationship. It would be a dysfunctional relationship that in the long run would break up over any number of other trust issues. In my mind, the constant suspicion and jealousy to a certain extent balance the lying.
robfos Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Before I found out my ex was cheating on me I found texts on her phone with the OM. I started looking at the phone bill and she was texting him 10 times more than she was me. I freaked out and confronted her and she denied anything physical ever happened. I wasn't sure how to trust her so I asked her to swear on my mom (who had passed away when I was 12) and she did it without blinking. I found out 3 weeks later that she had lied to my face. If you ask me, I think he is lying and has had more than an emotional affair. You don't hang out at a bar and have that much conversation with someone for an "emotional" connection. That's not how the world works... 3
GuyInLimbo Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 If only the inventor of text messaging knew how it would radically transform relationships for the worse... It really is astounding. 2
Author MyRuka Posted May 28, 2013 Author Posted May 28, 2013 I'm gonna get beat up on this thread, but I have to let it out... I am a firm believer that everyone has expectations and boundaries and partners should mutually respect those boundaries. If a couple doesn't mutually respect those boundaries, then they are not well suited to be a couple. Your boundary is no female friends for your husband. He has a female friend from before he met you and that crosses the line for you, end of story. But if a partner of mine had a boundary that limited my ability to have a friend from 1/2 of the world's population, especially someone that I knew before meeting the partner, I would be quicker to the trigger to break off the relationship. It would be a dysfunctional relationship that in the long run would break up over any number of other trust issues. In my mind, the constant suspicion and jealousy to a certain extent balance the lying. My boundary isn't that he can't have female friends. In fact, he has quite a few friends from his earlier days and female friends he has made throughout our marriage and I have no problem with them. My boundary is that all relationships with members of the opposite sex should be TRANSPARENT. Once you start keeping secrets, deliberately omitting meetings, misleading your partner about the context of your previous relationship, and having inappropriate conversations that may give signals from the married person, then the "friendship" isn't transparent. I agree with you that constant suspicion and jealousy aren't honorable qualities, and I am not proud that I had to stoop so low to find out what he was hiding. It is definitely dysfunction, but it wouldn't have existed if I didn't have reason to be suspicious in the first place. That is why I can't continue in this relationship.... a glance will no longer be just a glance. A smile will no longer be a smile. And I refuse to live that way.
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