Letting Wife Take Over Initiation of Sex

[Glowy sun]

I went 9 months near the end.

 

Putting a date on things in your mind is just going to frustrate you would be my guess. If you've told your wife about this 'date' then that likely isn't going to work at all ... will just build a resentment I suspect.

 

What does re-evaluate, in this context, even mean? You will leave? See other women?

 

My wife at the time actually told me point blank to go and see an escort. She said she was perfectly happy, but didn't want sex. In fact both statements were completely untrue. She certainly wasn't happy (which was, of course, what led to the no sex), and she really _really_ didn't want me to see other women.

 

 

 

It may make her feel better, I hope so. I have no direct experience of anti-depressants, but I understand from reading around that many of these can completely kill your sex drive ... thus putting you, potentially, in an even worse position.

 

Anti-depressants are definitely a risky proposition when it comes to sex. It hasn't killed my sex drive, but it's definitely lessened it. But I hope it will help her become happy again. I think the depression is distorting her own perceptions and her actions and standoffish attitude (something I can speak of from experience).

 

My wife was initially against having an end date because she felt that it put a lot of pressure on her and made the whole relationship hinge on sex. Our therapist pointed out that sex was just the relationship problem that stands out the most (cuz it's, y'know, sex) and that the Labor Day end date didn't mean that if we don't have sex or enough sex that our marriage is over, just that it gives us a place to re-evaluated.

 

I guess what I mean by re-evaluate is that if there aren't any glimmers of a happier marriage/sex life, then yeah we're probably doomed. But since everyone says "these things take time" it gives us a mile marker. There comes a point where you realize you're just beating a dead horse.

 

I agree with you that sex is a kind of mortar in a relationship. Maybe that's just a male perspective though. I can't imagine a marriage without sex.

[Mumbles]

I guess what I mean by re-evaluate is that if there aren't any glimmers of a happier marriage/sex life, then yeah we're probably doomed. But since everyone says "these things take time" it gives us a mile marker. There comes a point where you realize you're just beating a dead horse.

 

Thats fair enough. You do reach this point ... or at least, we did. After some years of really struggling, and both of us being quite unhappy, we reached a point where someone threw out the option of divorce and the other sighed and agreed.

 

 

I agree with you that sex is a kind of mortar in a relationship. Maybe that's just a male perspective though. I can't imagine a marriage without sex.

 

I don't know that its just a male perspective. I had reached this opinion myself inside my marriage. My wife was simply so uninterested, yet I was still raring to go ... I thought too that maybe it was just a male thing.

 

However, I'm not at all convinced now. It just comes down to the relationship. In more recent relationships, post divorce, I've found that the mutual 'bonding' thing is as equally relevant to women as to men. Ones girlfriend always seems more loving and happy in your pairing when the sex is both regular and good.

 

For me, I've stopped pretending. For a long time in my marriage I tooled with the idea that maybe I could somehow keep my good friend, my wife, and learn to give up on sex. But I just couldn't, and nowadays I just won't. I have female friends who are just friends. If I'm going to be in a relationship with someone thats akin to girlfriend or wife or whatever then its got to include sex ...

[Glowy sun]

Thats fair enough. You do reach this point ... or at least, we did. After some years of really struggling, and both of us being quite unhappy, we reached a point where someone threw out the option of divorce and the other sighed and agreed.

 

 

 

 

I don't know that its just a male perspective. I had reached this opinion myself inside my marriage. My wife was simply so uninterested, yet I was still raring to go ... I thought too that maybe it was just a male thing.

 

However, I'm not at all convinced now. It just comes down to the relationship. In more recent relationships, post divorce, I've found that the mutual 'bonding' thing is as equally relevant to women as to men. Ones girlfriend always seems more loving and happy in your pairing when the sex is both regular and good.

 

For me, I've stopped pretending. For a long time in my marriage I tooled with the idea that maybe I could somehow keep my good friend, my wife, and learn to give up on sex. But I just couldn't, and nowadays I just won't. I have female friends who are just friends. If I'm going to be in a relationship with someone thats akin to girlfriend or wife or whatever then its got to include sex ...

 

Yeah, I agree with all of this. The frustrating thing for me, is that my wife wants an open marriage. She would let me have sex with anyone as long as I kept her first. She cans separate it, or at least she thinks she can. I know we can't because I did let my feelings get the best of me when we opened our relationship up last year. I need a full relationship where sex brings us closer together, not something we relegate to the outside.

[CarrieT]

Yeah, I agree with all of this. The frustrating thing for me, is that my wife wants an open marriage.

 

The fact that she wants an open marriage -- i.e., sex with other men -- and not you, should be a GIANT RED FLAG for you that your experiment will never work.

 

As one who did the same thing to my husband (proposed an open marriage because I wanted sex from anyone but him), I would say that your wife has already emotionally checked out of the marriage and is looking for a band-aid to appease you (by offering you the ability to cheat).

 

If you want to save your marriage, insist on counseling as soon as possible.

[Korea2000]

I think the most useful posts on this site are from people who have experienced similar things. In my instance I went for 2 dry years after effectively giving up initiating sex with my ex w. and practically living with incel for a few years prior to that, with the odd exception every few months. What I found was that gradually I became more and more resentful towards her, as it was as much about the lack of emotional support and attachment / tenderness as about the lack of sex. Ultimately I ended up divorcing her. fwiw if she wants to save her marriage you should warn her this is where it's headed.

[Mumbles]

fwiw if she wants to save her marriage you should warn her this is where it's headed.

 

You can't go down this road imho. Its a threat, in my view ... fyke me or I'll leave you. This can't possibly work when a woman has probably already turned off emotionally. Even if it _were_ to somehow fling you a freebie now and then, its extremely likely to be mechanical or starfish passionless sex ... and who really wants to live with that?

[Korea2000]

You can't go down this road imho. Its a threat, in my view ... fyke me or I'll leave you. This can't possibly work when a woman has probably already turned off emotionally. Even if it _were_ to somehow fling you a freebie now and then, its extremely likely to be mechanical or starfish passionless sex ... and who really wants to live with that?

 

I'd probably have settled for that at the time, personally. But I think you're right. It's no remedy really.

[Glowy sun]

You can't go down this road imho. Its a threat, in my view ... fyke me or I'll leave you. This can't possibly work when a woman has probably already turned off emotionally. Even if it _were_ to somehow fling you a freebie now and then, its extremely likely to be mechanical or starfish passionless sex ... and who really wants to live with that?

 

Yes I try hard to not come off like I'm pressuring her. But sometimes even just talking about the fact that we're not having sex comes off as pressure. I can't get into her headspace. I'm hoping the anti-depressants open her up because every little talk makes her brittle.

[Korea2000]

Yes I try hard to not come off like I'm pressuring her. But sometimes even just talking about the fact that we're not having sex comes off as pressure. I can't get into her headspace. I'm hoping the anti-depressants open her up because every little talk makes her brittle.

 

Because it ain't just about sex. It's about intimacy and affection. And you ain't gettin' any. The real issue is how long you can take it.

 

I take on board the very valid point about bullying for sex, but, truth be told, unless she does something your marriage will go past the point of no return.

[Mumbles]

I'd probably have settled for that at the time, personally. But I think you're right. It's no remedy really.

 

It isn't and I did.

 

We had a "trial separation" before the actual and final one. When we 'got back together' so to speak, we each had a list of things that we required of the other. Not a bad idea on the surface and I actually subscribe to this idea so long as its done in good faith and is realistic. However, our hurt was still real and the faith wasn't good.

 

One of my things was sex, once a week at least. After nine months or so of incel I thought I was being pretty darn generous actually (see - a problem right there). I'm a guy who likes sex 3-4 times a week, yes, even after 10 years of marriage. It isn't actually about the sex per se, its the intimacy, and this is touched on a bit further down.

 

 

Yes I try hard to not come off like I'm pressuring her. But sometimes even just talking about the fact that we're not having sex comes off as pressure. I can't get into her headspace. I'm hoping the anti-depressants open her up because every little talk makes her brittle.

 

Yep, I'm hearing echo's of my own past here. She just can't talk about it - she's switched off completely ... honestly, she probably doesn't want to have sex with you at all. Whatever it is thats brought you to this point has turned off her libido towards you. I say "you" but I'm really drawing on my own experience. My wife did actually want sex, but not with me. This was evidenced by our final separation. Within a week she'd hooked up with a random. This hurt me terribly and I really questioned if, maybe, I was just so crap in bed that she couldn't stand it. I guess a typical male insecurity problem.

 

Because it ain't just about sex. It's about intimacy and affection. And you ain't gettin' any. The real issue is how long you can take it.

 

Yep, this. I wanted and needed intimacy. Sure, part of that is the actual and physical act of sex, but its not only that. I wasn't get any of anything and in the long term I just wasn't able to cope.

 

I take on board the very valid point about bullying for sex, but, truth be told, unless she does something your marriage will go past the point of no return.

 

The problem is that this is very probably the reality. Though it will be a problem most likely caused by both of you, in my case, without a return to physical intimacy there just wasn't going to be a return to anything. I felt trapped - I wanted sex, but couldn't get any because I was married (or so I thought). What I should have done is what my wife suggested, seen an escort or a dozen - discreetly of course. I think this option shouldn't be written off. It might have allowed me to get my physical/hormone/sexual needs thing sorted out and taken it off the table as an issue, which would then have allowed me to look a closer look at what it was that _I_ was doing that was really causing my wife a problem.

 

But the incel was consuming me, I really couldn't think about anything else.

 

Incidentally, and I don't want to derail the thread, but there might be something useful in this next comment. I now see escorts regularly, my girlfriend, my actual girlfriend who I love and who loves me is herself an active escort. She has her clients, I have my ladies, sex simply isn't an issue in our relationship - we have sex with each other very often, really, you'd be surprised, and its passionate and loving, but there are no sexual games, leverage or problems relating to sex, its simply off the table as an issue ... we build, enjoy and have a relationship who's foundation is completely outside the sexual realm.

[dichotomy]

This conversation has evolved from OP. So I will add my thoughts as it is a bit more like other threads about sex and marriage.

 

Absence or near absence of sex in a marriage is not always as easy as intimacy/emotional/caring = sex. I say this because sex is different things even to women or men. It might be an internal issue, it might tied be resentment, it might be psychological/self esteem, past abuse or relationships, marriage and parental roles and energy, and even just a plain understanding of what love is in a long term marriage.

 

There is also a power and control aspect to some peoples view of sex. I know personal (and have read here) of women (ex-wives) who after a divorce engage in any number of casual sex encounters - with no emotional or intimacy involved or required. Ex-husbands can be bewildered by finding their cold ex-wife burning it up with random guys (and this happens to both good ex husbands and bad ex husbands). I also have a friend who's wife stopped having sex with him - he divorced her - and 10 years out from the divorce she has remained frigid and uninvolved with men. Meanwhile he is overwhelmed with several new middle aged GF's (divorced women) sexual appetites.

 

It is complicated. I have spent many years post Dday, dealing with the roller coaster that is my wife's sexuality. I have now turned this over to our new therapist, an experience female marriage therapist with a specialty in sex therapy. So far this female expert.... can't figure my wife out either.

Edited June 10, 2013 by dichotomy

[KungFuJoe]

This marriage is ****ED.

 

Get out. Run as fast as you can before you waste away whatever is left of the ONE LIFE YOU WILL EVER HAVE.

[Glowy sun]

I'm debating asking her to not get naked around me. She was getting dressed this morning and was putting on a see through bra that turns me on a lot. It was incredibly frustrating to see what I couldn't have, but I'm worried that she might take it the wrong way. That I don't like looking at her or something.

 

And glad it works for you, but I don't see escorts in my future.

[Mumbles]

I'm debating asking her to not get naked around me. She was getting dressed this morning and was putting on a see through bra that turns me on a lot. It was incredibly frustrating to see what I couldn't have, but I'm worried that she might take it the wrong way. That I don't like looking at her or something.

 

This has got to be tough - I can fully understand. I don't know how you can realistically deal with it either. I don't think asking her not to get naked around you is likely to go down too well ... just guessing, but it sorta sounds like a some sort of rejection doesn't it?

 

 

And glad it works for you, but I don't see escorts in my future.

 

Fair enough - I just threw it out there as a personal experience from my end. Forums like this one are great because people can tell real truths about their real situations and sometimes help others - but not every 'solution' is going to fit every reader.

[CarrieT]

I'm debating asking her to not get naked around me. .... I'm worried that she might take it the wrong way.

 

She *would* take it the wrong way but not in the wrong way you are anticipating.

 

It would be passive/aggressive at best and would continue to hit home to her that she is not putting out. It would be just as bad a reminder that you two are not having sex as the actual whining about not having sex.

 

Don't go there...

[Feelin Frisky]

I've never been married. But using those I know who are as a reference, it appears that if there are basic problems, they usually just get worse. I don't know anyone who went from unhappiness to happiness with the same partner. OP, you could let her initiate for a while but how long is too long? More often than not people seem to accept the once in a month deal. My longest LTR where we lived together got around to that. I always initiated. I'd often get head to shut me up but that's not what you're looking for in your 20's and 30's. Three times a week, absolute minimum.

[Glowy sun]

This has got to be tough - I can fully understand. I don't know how you can realistically deal with it either. I don't think asking her not to get naked around you is likely to go down too well ... just guessing, but it sorta sounds like a some sort of rejection doesn't it?

 

 

 

 

Fair enough - I just threw it out there as a personal experience from my end. Forums like this one are great because people can tell real truths about their real situations and sometimes help others - but not every 'solution' is going to fit every reader.

 

Yeah, I can see how it would work for some people. No judgement from me. We already tried an open relationship and it just revealed all these problems in our own relationship.

 

She *would* take it the wrong way but not in the wrong way you are anticipating.

 

It would be passive/aggressive at best and would continue to hit home to her that she is not putting out. It would be just as bad a reminder that you two are not having sex as the actual whining about not having sex.

 

Don't go there...

 

I did tell her tonight. She just kind of said "I'm not trying to lord it over you" and said she liked she could get naked without me trying to have sex with her I used to initiate it spur of the moment when she got dressed, which she said was sweet, but she usually just liked to get dressed.

I insisted she read some books on it. I need to see that she's actually working on the issue. I can tell it's a concern for her, but I need to at least see some action on her part. Plus I told her to think of something I can do to help cause just playing the waiting game for things to get better is driving me nuts.

[Korea2000]

Yeah, I can see how it would work for some people. No judgement from me. We already tried an open relationship and it just revealed all these problems in our own relationship.

 

 

 

I did tell her tonight. She just kind of said "I'm not trying to lord it over you" and said she liked she could get naked without me trying to have sex with her I used to initiate it spur of the moment when she got dressed, which she said was sweet, but she usually just liked to get dressed.

I insisted she read some books on it. I need to see that she's actually working on the issue. I can tell it's a concern for her, but I need to at least see some action on her part. Plus I told her to think of something I can do to help cause just playing the waiting game for things to get better is driving me nuts.

 

 

You clearly love your wife.

 

You equally clearly still desire her.

 

You also will remain loyal to her.

 

You are a good guy and a good husband. So don't beat yourself up about this. The problem is HER and if she could only see what damage she is causing by enforcing this incel on you she'd understand.

 

I know it's not a long term solution but surely even passive, boring sex on get part is better than nothing right now? At least she would be demonstrating she cares enough for you to relief? Seriously, sex is a part of the matrimonial contract even if tenderness isn't.

 

I think your marriage can be salvaged but the way I see it is that the ball lies on your wife's court, and somehow someway she needs to be alive to the threat that you'll just stop caring enough about her and eventually get a divorce.

 

Counselling surely has to be the way to go dude.

[Korea2000]

 

There is also a power and control aspect to some peoples view of sex. I know personal (and have read here) of women (ex-wives) who after a divorce engage in any number of casual sex encounters - with no emotional or intimacy involved or required. Ex-husbands can be bewildered by finding their cold ex-wife burning it up with random guys (and this happens to both good ex husbands and bad ex husbands).

 

Yeah, why is that?

 

You saying its a control / empowerment rather than sexual gratification thing?

[dichotomy]

Yeah, why is that?

 

You saying its a control / empowerment rather than sexual gratification thing?

 

 

In some instances yes, that is what I have seen. People (men and women) have sex for all sorts of reason, power and control is one of them. I knew a woman who's ex was very emotionally abusive and degrading, telling her no man would want her and she would be alone. She set out to prove him wrong and also to show the world she was a strong desirable woman and used sex to prove this with a number of men during the year or two following her divorce. Not saying there was not sexual gratification all around - but there was a desire for power and control (and self esteem) behind it and not a desire for emotional connection and intimacy.

 

One of many reasons to have sex.

[Mumbles]

I know it's not a long term solution but surely even passive, boring sex on get part is better than nothing right now? At least she would be demonstrating she cares enough for you to relief?

 

I don't agree - coming from my own experience. The 'obligational' type of sex is the worst kind. I got to this stage with my wife a few months before we finally decided to throw away the marriage. I too thought that as the incel was driving me bonkers that sex, any sort of sex, would help ... it really didn't. She deeply resented me essentially 'levering' her into this position. I had to remind her, as if she'd forgotten, that it was 'sex day' and she'd dutifully disrobe and throw me a free one ... but it was awful, really awful. I wouldn't subject myself or a woman to this again ever in the future. It seemed like a road to somewhere, and I was desperate to save our marriage ... willing to try anything .. but this is _not_ the answer.

 

I know escorts aren't the answer for the OP and I won't go into a huge diatribe about it, but believe me, in comparison to obligating your wife to sex you up, escorts willingly do the business with at least a bit of passion and willingness. People either want to have sex with you or they don't ... its all in the mind.

 

 

Seriously, sex is a part of the matrimonial contract even if tenderness isn't.

 

Yes, I 100% agree. We couldn't get past this blockage and the contract had to end. Marriage isn't about cohabitation with a good friend resulting in incel ... it just isn't. There is a lot directly and implied in the social contract that is marriage, and sexual togetherness is one of them - to enforce incel is to deliberately invalidate the contract in my view.

 

But contracts are fine to talk about however no real person lives their life in a contractual way - we're human. The whole marriage thing has now become so warped and ultimately technically businesslike that its probably worthless. Wait until you actually get a divorce to find out how much 'tenderness' is actually in a marriage contract ... none ... its business baby.

[imtooconfused]

I find that the more time I put in doing things for her during the day(chores, texts while at work, offering to cook, hugging and touching for no reason), the greater the success rate later.

 

^ All men who would like women to think about them sexually and not simply be pissed off at them should start by doing what's stated in the brilliant post above.

 

This backfired on me all the time since doing "her chores" made her think that I thought she was incapable of doing them and she hated hugs.

 

Putting a date on things in your mind is just going to frustrate you would be my guess. If you've told your wife about this 'date' then that likely isn't going to work at all ... will just build a resentment I suspect.

 

Yes, this will be a disaster. She will not be ready at the end of the time limit and you are going to be furious that she doesn't respect your needs.

 

My wife at the time actually told me point blank to go and see an escort. She said she was perfectly happy, but didn't want sex. In fact both statements were completely untrue. She certainly wasn't happy (which was, of course, what led to the no sex), and she really _really_ didn't want me to see other women.

 

Yup. This is like anniversary gift test. "Oh honey, we have a lot of bills this year, so you don't have to get me anything for our anniversary." Pitty, the husband who falls for that.

[imtooconfused]

I'm debating asking her to not get naked around me. She was getting dressed this morning and was putting on a see through bra that turns me on a lot. It was incredibly frustrating to see what I couldn't have, but I'm worried that she might take it the wrong way. That I don't like looking at her or something.

 

This is the most interesting part of this whole thread. I can't think of a situation where someone who feels no intimacy towards you would be OK with being naked around you (other than the obvious answer - strippers - who do it for $$$). Even if she is just trying to make you jealous and drool, that means she still has feelings for you and wants to see how you react. My feeling is that she does want to be intimate, but not unless it's on her terms. I don't mean that in the sense that she wants to be the one to initiate. It might be that she wants you to show appreciation and respect for her and her body. It might be something else that's blocking her from desiring intimacy, but there are clues that she is not totally turned off, but needs the right trigger.

 

You might try the opposite approach... "Gee honey, I'm happy to know you are still comfortable around me. I just love watching you get dressed in the morning."

[Glowy sun]

This is the most interesting part of this whole thread. I can't think of a situation where someone who feels no intimacy towards you would be OK with being naked around you (other than the obvious answer - strippers - who do it for $$$). Even if she is just trying to make you jealous and drool, that means she still has feelings for you and wants to see how you react. My feeling is that she does want to be intimate, but not unless it's on her terms. I don't mean that in the sense that she wants to be the one to initiate. It might be that she wants you to show appreciation and respect for her and her body. It might be something else that's blocking her from desiring intimacy, but there are clues that she is not totally turned off, but needs the right trigger.

 

You might try the opposite approach... "Gee honey, I'm happy to know you are still comfortable around me. I just love watching you get dressed in the morning."

 

No, she likes that we are comfortable enough that we can just be naked around each other. I like that too, it's just lately I've been uncomfortable with it (because of the incel). She has a poor body image. No matter how much I tell her she's beautiful or she looks good, she doesn't believe it. Certainly that's contributing to her low desire for sex. And it's a big reason why she wanted the open marriage, to prove to herself that she was desirable.

 

I don't doubt that she does want to have sex on her terms, which I can understand, but we've been having sex on her terms for years. I have needs and desires too. I'm done begging.

 

Lately she's been saying "I can't believe our marriage is hinging on sex," which drives me nuts cause it minimizes my feelings. And of course it doesn't just hinge on sex. Tip of the iceberg.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Glowy sun

[Mumbles]

I have needs and desires too. I'm done begging.

 

There must be so many men who go through this. A lot of your story, really, a lot, directly parallels mine.

 

As for the begging ... it emasculated me, completely. By the time our marriage was done I was a hollow shell of a man and its taken me years to understand myself and get back in touch with my needs and desires.

 

 

Lately she's been saying "I can't believe our marriage is hinging on sex," which drives me nuts cause it minimizes my feelings. And of course it doesn't just hinge on sex. Tip of the iceberg.

 

Yes, similarly for me, I got a similar line. I never had the balls to say it, but I certainly thought it ... "I can't believe you think you can keep a man without there being any sex"