Why does the BW so badly need to "matter" to the OW?

[cocorico]

I have seen this manifest in so many ways, from the BW feeling a need to force herself into the OW's consciousness to "become real" to her, to BWs still disturbed years later that their WH's former lover was not dying to ask them anything when they forced a confrontation, to BWs getting really upset when OWs speak honestly about the negative traits of their lovers' (current, vestigial or former) spouses... And more. It seems that to many BWs, there is a burning need to feel that they really matter to the OW, and anything perceived as dismissive or minimising, even though it is not about them personally but rather about some other woman whose husband found love elsewhere, is interpreted as a full-scale attack.

 

Is this "need to matter" to compensate for their not mattering to their H during the A? Is it the analog of the fOW "needing to have mattered" to the fMM? Is it know sinister - some kind of narcissism that imagines that the planet really does revolve around them? Is it because the OW matters so very much in their lives, they can't conceive that they cannot reciprocally matter to the OW? Or is it something else entirely?

 

I'd be very interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter, as it seems to be a point on which a huge gulf of understanding exists from both sides.

[TigerCub]

But say that you had a friend, that broke into someone's house and stole from there. They did it repeatedly (For some reason that family didn't get a security system) wouldn't you really ask your friend

"Don't you ever think of that family and how you stole from them and traumatized them?"

 

I think it's a normal question when you see someone that's done something that wronged another.

 

I'm guessing maybe that's why some BWs think "Didn't an AP ever really think of how they wronged someone that didn't provoke them and didn't do anything to them to deserve the pain inflicted on them by the AP"

 

I suspect that you will say 'well the MM is the one that truly hurt them' and I do agree with that - but I still think that it's a normal thought that a BS would have in general.

 

If someone broke into my house and stole something valuable from me - I'd be pissed and I would wonder what kind of person does that! what are they thinking? Did they never know they are negatively affecting someone else? Did they take pleasure in hurting others.

 

I don't think it's a 'the world revolves around me' mentality. I think it's just an involuntary thought that most people that feel they were wronged or victimized by someone would think.

 

I have been an Ap and I did think of the BW and what my part in the A did. What's wrong with that.

I'm not judging APs..I know what it's like when one is in an A.

 

But why does it bother you so much if the BW wonders if an AP thought of how her actions affect the BW and her family?

[TigerCub]

Oh I think it's a normal thought to have.... and it doesn't bother me if they think it.. it's the obsessing about it that I find strange. The odd behaviors trying to force the hands of some to think of them. It's just weird.

 

Oh well I don't know about the examples of the odd behaviors to force them to think of the BW.

 

I guess if someone obsesses about something it most likely is because they haven't fully moved past it.

[cocorico]

I agree that it shows up in many ways and I just find it odd. I would think that the obsession (if there needs to be one) would come in the form of wondering why they didn't matter to their own spouse. I suppose it's probably easier to focus and direct all your anger and animosity at a 3rd party, especially if you are going to live with that cheater for the rest of your life you would need to not focus your resentment there, but why do they care if they matter?

I have seen people say that they should matter beause they are a person and blah blah blah... and they are "innocent of any wrong-doing" and a whole lot of other nonsense, but really, stil I ask why? I don't understand it, I truly may never.

I think you have some really good hypothetical reasons listed, and I woudln't be shocked to discover that it's all or at least some of them.

It may very well be that the "I must be the center of the universe" thinking that contributed to their spouse looking elsewhere to feel that he or she mattered as it did in the case of my situation. If my MM had felt more valued at home, and that the world wasn't required to revolve around little miss princess at all times and despite her behavior, perhaps things would have been different.

 

I think my H's xW's narcissism was probably also largely behind his finally resorting to an A. But I would like to think she's an extreme example, and not the norm.

[cocorico]

 

If someone broke into my house and stole something valuable from me - I'd be pissed and I would wonder what kind of person does that! what are they thinking? Did they never know they are negatively affecting someone else? Did they take pleasure in hurting others.

 

I don't think it's a 'the world revolves around me' mentality. I think it's just an involuntary thought that most people that feel they were wronged or victimized by someone would think.

 

Perhaps this is a cultural difference. I grew up in a country with a high crime rate and it was not something we ever personalised. We accepted crime as random, mostly opportunistic, and learned how best to minimise our chances of it happening, but accepted that if we were targeted, there was no way to prevent it outright. When my house was burgled, I did not spend a minute wondering what kind of person would do that - I knew, based on research and my observations of the crime scene, that it was someone who was poor, desperate, and whose personal needs outweighed any consideration they may have had toward their "victim". I certainly did not expect that they would have questions for me, should I confront them with my possessions, nor did I care whether they gave me a moment's thought or not.

 

 

But why does it bother you so much if the BW wonders if an AP thought of how her actions affect the BW and her family?

 

A passing thought out of idle curiosity as part of the "who is this woman my H fell in love with?" scenario I could understand. Imagining that, years after the A ended, the OW would still be bursting with questions to ask the BW, I can't. Expecting every OW to speak respectfully as if every BW, including the spouse of their lover whose behaviour they may have witnessed up close, was made of spin loveliness and light, despite all evidence to the contrary... seems to me ideological at best, or downright delusional at worst. Of course some BWs will be awful, just as some OWs no doubt are - having an unfaithful spouse does not automatically sanctify anyone.

 

And it bothers me enough to post about it, because it is so far from my own perspective, and so difficult for me to get my head around, that I really would appreciate any insight!

[beenburned]

I guess it would depend on the circumstances of the affair and that particular BW.

 

As you know, my D's XH lied to everyone involved.(both OW and D) They all(BW and both OW) wanted to get the whole truth from each other since they didn't trust anything that came out of his mouth after d-day occurred.

 

He used all of them for his own selfish desires! When both OW got the whole sordid story of just how bad he had played them for fools, they apologized to my D!

 

They all dumped him immediately and he moved out of state.

 

But your question could also be interpreted as the BW simply wanting to know" why you didn't think it was wrong to get involved in an affair with a MM". Did you (in the beginning/early stages) not think about the consequences to the wife/kids? Or did you simply not care because you wanted the MM so bad?

[HonestNeurotic]

I think it just really depends on the personality of the BW. I've not had that exact experience, but I know that my ex husbands now wife, had real issues with me. We were divorced when they met, we live in different states, but still, she would make him call me and demand to change my last name back to my maiden name (cuz me living 2K miles away with the practically generic last name of Rivera was threatening her status?). Tried to throw away any pictures that had me in them as a family from before we were divorced. Pissed my kids off to no end. My daughter "saved" the pictures.

 

To this day, that woman places herself in competition with me. I dunno why. Our kids are adults and we (my ex and I) have no reason to speak to each other. I don't even have their phone number. I see him only at my children's weddings, and all other visits have nothing at all to do with him. She goes out of her way to endear my mother, which is nice for my mom to be pampered a bit, but it's all fake. I sincerely don't get it at all, and me and my boyz end up laughing at her.

 

I know it's not the same as a BS, but I see similar attitudes just like hers from many of the BS's on this board. OW's obsessed with the BS as well. I don't think it has all that much to do with the labels and/or roles that we are in, but it's just the inherent nature of our personalities. My ex's wife is seriously insecure. I think she wants what we had, and that's never gonna happen. My ex in laws still consider me the "wife" and aren't very friendly to her. She should just give up trying to trash me and competing with me.

[Owl]

I'm curious...can you give an example of this "need to matter"? (without violating TOS, of course)

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to here. I can't think of an example of what you're talking about, here on LS or in person.

 

My experience has been quite the contrary...BS's prefer to have the AP removed completely from their lives.

 

I have zero interest in any kind of interaction with OM in my own situation, for example.

[MissBee]

I have seen this manifest in so many ways, from the BW feeling a need to force herself into the OW's consciousness to "become real" to her, to BWs still disturbed years later that their WH's former lover was not dying to ask them anything when they forced a confrontation, to BWs getting really upset when OWs speak honestly about the negative traits of their lovers' (current, vestigial or former) spouses... And more. It seems that to many BWs, there is a burning need to feel that they really matter to the OW, and anything perceived as dismissive or minimising, even though it is not about them personally but rather about some other woman whose husband found love elsewhere, is interpreted as a full-scale attack.

 

Is this "need to matter" to compensate for their not mattering to their H during the A? Is it the analog of the fOW "needing to have mattered" to the fMM? Is it know sinister - some kind of narcissism that imagines that the planet really does revolve around them? Is it because the OW matters so very much in their lives, they can't conceive that they cannot reciprocally matter to the OW? Or is it something else entirely?

 

I'd be very interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter, as it seems to be a point on which a huge gulf of understanding exists from both sides.

 

For me, when I was the OW, I thought about the "BS", but she wasn't a focus. I also knew little to nothing about her, so it was near to impossible for me to really have many concrete thoughts, positive or negative, so any thought was always fleeting and had no intensity behind them.

 

This is why for me, when OW come to LS and go on and on and on and on, ad nauseum, in every thread about the BS, when the thread has nothing to do with BSs or they always find a way to insert their opinions about the BS into conversations, I don't get it. As they say, all publicity is good publicity. You either don't care about the BS or you do, because constantly spewing vitriol, truthful or not, is you taking the time to think about and share about this "unimportant" person. Not allowing me to know her by his own discretion about her, was the best thing my exAP ever did, as I see how damaging and toxic it can become when one knows way too much.

 

A BS genuinely not mattering to you is where you are neutral. You have little opinions and feelings besides on a surface level. That's how it was for me. However, it makes no sense for an OW to bring up the MM's BS all the time. On here, I can tell you about certain poster's MM's wives more than I can probably say about MM himself, or just as much. If this person didn't matter, I wouldn't be able to.

 

Your post presents the idea that to every OW the BS doesn't matter and to every BS the OW does, when this isn't true. Logically, most BSs don't know a thing about OW until dday while a lot of OW know about the BS, just because of the fact they are with a MM. And on LS some OW seemingly know everything about the BS. The things some OW here say about the BS, I wonder if they are the elastic band in her panties why they know so much . Many seem to bond with their MM over how terrible the BS is. What I have seen from most BSs, and rightfully so is, for OW considering an A, some try to say, this is how I felt as a BS, so consider that the BS in your situation is a human too who will be hurt. OR some want to talk to the OW, not to be important to her, but to piece together information to help THEIR reconciliation. I haven't seen any posts that come off as this narcissistic need to "matter" to the OW.

 

I don't think most BSs have to go through much to matter and be known by the OW and many in fact, from what I read here, had to go through great lengths to get the OW to leave them and their families alone, versus relishing in the OW's preoccupation.

[MissBee]

Oh well I don't know about the examples of the odd behaviors to force them to think of the BW.

 

I guess if someone obsesses about something it most likely is because they haven't fully moved past it.

 

I am genuinely trying to think of any posts I've seen that reflect such an obsession, forcing of hand, narcissistic need of a BS to matter and can't readily think of any. Most of what I have seen mimics what you've also observed Tiger. I posted my own post before I saw yours.

 

If anyone could PM me with such an example, it would be helpful in contextualizing the conversation, as right now I can't think of any posts that fit the description. If it is so common, there should be tons. I can't imagine I overlooked them, but it's also perception, so it would still be helpful to be shown an example that maybe I didn't perceive in that way but some others do.

[dreamingoftigers]

I find the premise of this thread very weird.

 

I don't think that I have seen an example where a BW/H has tried to make sure that OW/OM know that they matter, or tried to gain some type of validation from them.

 

I have never even reached out to my H's ex-OWs.

 

I saw enough of them from their messages and what have you.

 

The only thing that haunts me is that they showed up in my marriage at all. And yes, I said MY marriage, because my husband wasn't truly participating being married at all at the time. I wouldn't say hi to one on the street or in passing. They are just a void that helped waste some of my time and my life.

 

I am sure that some toxic, insecure folk out there want some validation or revenge on those that participated in the hurt. I couldn't care less. Not because I think the blame is solely on my H. It isn't. But honestly, talking to women who are so messed in the head to be searching for love on internet chat with a married man are not going to shift perspectives talking to me. And if they are looking just for sex, clearly they aren't too discerning about the person or venue given the circumstances.

 

Seriously, an encounter with one of the OW would most likely end in the following ways, (these are in general, not me personally, because as I said before, I did not search for info from them or try to discover their glorious motives.) In my case, their correspondence was plainly kept, so I saw enough to see that they were each just part of a pattern. I also think that him having multiple OW helped to actually slow the obsessive/wrack your brain part of the whole trauma. It made me realize that he wasn't chasing after diamonds. He wasn't cheating because they were so "amazing." (One was just disgusting!) He was cheating because he had a serious, sick set of issues.

 

So in a weird, weird way, thank goodness it wasn't one OW. Because at the age of 26 and eight months pregnant, I would've thought that whomever it was, was the Moon and Stars to him and it would've done something to me to be carrying the man who thinks of me as nothing's child.

 

Lucky me.

 

Anyhow, the results of reaching out to "try to matter" to OW would have most likely been:

 

1. Accused of harasssing/stalking her.

2. Some lame tripe about "their love" which would've made me gag.

3. Some accusation of how it's my fault. See: gagging

4. Some crappy justification about sexual needs and humans not being monogamous.

5. Some lame excuse about being lonely. Too lonely to date even a single Seven-Eleven clerk. Had to be my husband..... LOL

6. Some tripe about me being "possessive..

7. Some low-self-esteem needing validation crap that I wouldn't want to have to deal with.

8. Perhaps some unbalanced woman attacking me.

9. Perhaps a whole new level of crazy entering my life if she decides to make trouble for me confronting/asking her anything.

10. MOST LIKELY simply being dismissed out of hand and then feeling ashamed for even trying to talk to someone so wooden-headed as to try to get with my married husband.

11. Sexual details that would simply scar. I have plenty that I live with every day.

12. A half-hearted apology.

 

None of this benefits me, him or the marriage.

[dreamingoftigers]

And frankly, they all knew I existed and didn't care enough to NOT sleep with my husband.

 

Why would I give a sh_t if I matter to someone like that?

[Benedictatu]

She does not matter and I wish she was dead.

[dreamingoftigers]

To be completely 110% honest, if my husband were to step out again and it be for "love with OW" I would be the most supportive person I could be to that relationship.

 

I appreciate my husband's better qualities but on the fidelity front, to be frank, he's been a fat pain in the arse.

 

I like not having to worry so much now and he is preparing to go to polygraph for me next month (deposit's down) to prove that he hasn't stepped out since getting help. So if he were to contravene all of that, I've been through so much in the last four years, that compartmentalizing him out really wouldn't be as big of a deal as it would have been if he just picked up an OW at midlife and blindsided me.

 

The first infidelity is tough, the second is even worse, after that and acknowledging his sexual addiction, the pain comes in second to the planning and protective instinct developed to bulletproof my own life. Hence, my own personal savings etc. I don't know what this has done to the intimate dynamic of the relationship (for him) but we are pursuing more MC to see if a healthy intimacy can be restored.

 

But if he threw that all away plus every step I've taken in the last four years to deal with this SA crap that I didn't sign on for and didn't know about, I think that it would show how consisently lacking he was pretty much always going to be as a partner towards me. I would let him go to be someone else's hard work and problem. Because this marriage does take a lot of work. We both have some pretty heavy histories.

 

I'd be spending more time on dealing with divorce paperwork than reflecting on OW and how I can matter to her.

 

How do I know? I've been there already and it's already a planned quantity. Right down to how I would deal with his belongings.

 

Depends on what bed he wants to make. (and no, I've never blah blahed to him about "if you go and do this, I'm gonna do that." No threat tohim whatsoever.) But if he is going to go about again behaving like an untrained dog spewing garbage all over mine and my daughter's home through his infidelity, after so much time and focus spent on those issues...... I would not treat him any differently than the dog. I would remove it from my house. I would care for either one, but I'm not going to allow either to destroy the place for no good reason whatsoever.

 

OW probably would really wonder why I was sending them giftcards for dates.

Edited May 19, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[dreamingoftigers]

The reason BS needs to be acknowledged by AP is the same reason why courts give victims the ability to be heard by their perpetrator. Regardless of what APs want to believe being cheated on DOES feel like being on the recieving end of a viscious attack. People NEED justice to heal correctly.

 

I can see that.

I can see and feel the need to tell an OW, "what your actions are really doing is really hurting a lot of innocent people (I.e. Me, my kids etc.)

 

I also think though, most MUST know and if they do, they don't cate and have fashioned the BW as either a quantity to be ignored or someone so lacking in being able to please their mate that they just don't matter.

 

And if they are naive and just don't know, I'm not sure how much that could really be explained to someone that naive. A lot of times if they are younger they won't get it until a marriage and kids of their own.

 

Plenty of criminals are the same. True, many end up eventually "getting it." but so many don't and go on to be "career criminals" with "nothing to lose." just as many OW go on to many MM as almost a "relational career."

 

There's just something that pulls them right into that dynamic.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dang girl, you sound like one strong woman. I'm not familiar with your story, but sounds like your husband has put your through it.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, he has and I stuck through it, in varying degrees.

 

I had to make some major personal shifts as well.

 

You just get to a point where after you start to recover from the emotional kick to the head you start examining where the worthy time and energy investments in your life are.

 

If he cheats again, it was obviously a bad investment, and would have proven to have been even after restructuring took place. Like any poor investment in my life, it would simply have to be removed or limited in it's impact in my overall portfolio.

 

But overall in regards to love/marriage, I'm willing to invest a lot in long-term if it's reasonable.

 

Our 8th (of being together) and 7th (of being married) anniversaries happen on the 27th and 28th of this month.