OK....so duty trumps love!

[So happy together]

How about the FOW and FOM who have been there and done that? Does our opinion not count either? Should the only advice for women and men come from the 2-3 people who actually snared their AP's? I've definitely called more than a few OM a POS, because that is exactly what they were. And the OW were in great pain because of those POS, lying, asshats behavior.

 

I'm glad you're happy, but I also question why you feel the need to constantly berate BS's. I hope you truly are as happy as you profess to be, because your whole posting vibe comes off as an extremely unhappy person.

 

I think anyone's opinion counts as long as it isn't trying to make those of us in relationships with OM/OW hate ourselves (we don't) over the fact that the MM stepped outside their marriage. I like hearing different perspectives, I just don't like it when some feel the need to pick apart my life when they know nothing of it.

 

And the comment of me being jealous of the stbxw? Wow. Not even a little jealous. She is an unhappy person in her own right and she chooses it. I don't choose to be unhappy. My life is very full right now. I have a great guy who loves me, I have wonderful children (my DIL was just accepted into the premed program!), I have a great job, run my own company, and I'm happy. Am I tired of the stbxw drunk texting us? Yeah, I am. But if I vent that here, I'm told I'm a mean person because she is 'hurting' and her stbxh was a bastard to her. Not the case. She can't even sober up long enough to make dinner. She has fallen asleep sitting on the toilet more times that I can count, and I would feel sorry for her if she'd tried to do anything to change it. She refused counseling, AA and all other forms of help. So, he moved on. I'm happy for him, I'm happy for us, and every time I post something should not be a free for all for people to attack my personal situation.

 

I asked a fellow poster what her back story was the other day because I honestly could not remember. What she posted made me wonder if she was another poster that I confuse her with because in my head their names get confused. I was attacked even for asking that. Like I was being snarky. It's ridiculous. Vultures.

[So happy together]

SoHappy,

 

You yourself said "all BSs"...I was only responding to what you said. And in the other thread, it was the same kind of thing. If you don't believe "all BSs" then respond to the specific poster who made certain comments to you versus saying "I know all BSs wish this/think this", as the two type of responses are different. BSs didn't say it to you....a specific poster did.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get how it can be frustrating if you feel someone is trying to refute your happiness. But I think sometimes it just depends on what the thread is about and how you talk about your happiness. This thread for example is about bellasue...and her situation isn't your situation. I don't know if he is a POS or not, but she's not too happy, and the majority of OW who come here come with their A problems and not A happiness. I think usually it's in such threads that people will say the MM isn't worth it. What I see happens though, is a happy OW will come and give a story about her happiness and make it about proving her happiness in her relationship, as if it refutes the current OW's unhappy situation. When it doesn't. In discussion threads it's fine, but it's weird when it happens in someone else's thread who is currently unhappy.

 

You spoke at length about how you see your situation, and of course about his horrible wife, who gets mentioned in every single thread. Admittedly, it is very bizarre to me that every time you talk about your happiness..there is the ghost of the stbxw right there in the thread too. It's like you're happy but she is still an important part of your story, literally. Anyway....you said your bf respects you and I believe you. Yet, because this is true for you, doesn't really change the reality of bellasue's situation, which is very different from yours and which is the point of this thread.

 

You are correct. I shouldn't have used my story as an example to make a point. And I also apologize for saying all. I meant "Most on this forum".

[MissBee]

People who cheat are POS. I say this as a person who has cheated before. I fully expect the person who I cheated on and left for another guy to think I am worthless scum who belongs in the ninth circle of hell, even though he cheated on me as well.

 

Whether or not he's the love of your life is irrelevant. Cheating is a horrible thing to do, especially to someone who you once promised to spend the rest of your life with. If your boyfriend didn't want people to think he was a bad person, he should have, y'know, not cheated on his wife. As adults, we all have to accept that the judgement of other people is a consequence of our actions. When our behavior is something most people consider morally objectionable, we have to accept that those judgements are going to be harsh and negative. As the saying goes, if you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime.

 

I agree.

 

I think one thing I can't relate to as a fOW, is the need to defend As or the AP or even myself and to avoid judgment. While in the A I understood fully how many would perceive it. I myself didn't think it was a good thing. But I wanted to do it at the time and wanted to stay, so stayed. I wasn't on any forums discussing my relationship, so I guess no opportunities came up for me to defend it, but I had a grasp on reality though.

 

Most people won't applaud cheating, even if it works out for me. So do it or don't, but if you do, have realistic expectations about what to expect from other people. *shrug*

 

One advice I would give anyone hellbent on an A is: if you are very sensitive to other people's judgments and opinions, AVOID an A or at least open forums where people from all sides of the triangle and track can say their piece about it.

[LoveBitesButSoDoI]

I'm not sure what you are wanting me to say. Do you think there is some hidden message in the words that he says? They seem pretty clear to me. I remember when I made my ex-mm repeat to me in his words that it was over so I could get it through my thick skull. Those words didn't sink in til months later and by his actions or lack thereof, I know he meant it. It's a matter of accepting what you settled for, or maybe you didn't settle...maybe the jerk off made you a bunch of promises & that's fine, but that was then & this is now. You are too good for games and definitely too good to be anyone's second best. The faster you NC, the faster you'll heal.

[So happy together]

You know, this is the attitude that really irks me.

I have never once assumed that you or any of the other BS that post here were fat, slovenly or alcoholic. (I can't add mean because there are a few BS's that have posted here at times that i do think are only here to be mean) but most aren't.

Maybe you are... I don't know, but it never occured to me that just because my MM's wife is a trainwreck that other BS's are. I never took it upon myself to assume or berate or talk down to any of the BS's here because of the way I feel about her.

BUT.... (and forgive me sohappy for jumping in here) why can't it be accepted that sometimes, the BS is a freaking disaster. That she (or he) legitiamtely is a nightmare and that it doesn't reflect on anyone else but them? Why SHOULDN'T those of us that deal with that say it?

Why shoudln't we comment on it?

I don't think all OW are nightmare bunny boilers either, but some BS post as if they are, or trashy, or money grubbing, or whatever current term is the insult du jour, but every time I see a post about one I don't feel inclined to go tell the BS who posted it that since she's so happy in her reconciliation she shoudl just go away and be happy.

 

So I just don't understand why this attitude is so prevalent.

 

 

Lots of MM, MW are POS. I think we all know that. In fact today I feel like reiterating that.

I think I see sohappys posts as defensive more than unhappy. I understand where she's coming from because I felt that way a lot. In fact, I don't knwo that she's trying to bash the BS so much as point out that the BS she is dealing with is NOT like most. I could be wrong. I'm surmising actually... but that's how her posts read to me.

I konw that I used to try and do that... now I just expect that everyone will read my posts and think the worst and hope that I've been here long enough that some people realize otherwise.

 

Well, here's the thing, why should you have to feel this way, if you are an OW on an OW/OM SUPPORT forum?

 

And just so we're clear, I don't think that Bs's are all terrible. I think that the one I dealt with is. I think, if the MM/MW decides to end the R and work on their M, that's great. That they should put all they have into it. If they don't that is their decision too. You don't see me ripping people apart for reconciling with their cheating spouse. To me, it just feels like whenever anyone posts anything about being OM/OW, people jump in with "End the affair", "Why do you let that person treat you badly" and a plethora of other negatives. How about just supporting their feelings without judging their situation? If I went to the infidelity forum and told the BS's that reconciled they were being used, treated shabbily, getting sloppy seconds, their H's were POS, and the best one, once a cheater always a cheater, I'd be banned in thirty seconds or less. So why the difference? I don't need someone to be my moral compass.

[So happy together]

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that you were jealous of the swbtx, so will guess you were speaking about another. I'm also curious how you know (really know) that this woman has fallen asleep on the toilet or doesn't cook, or is a whacked out drunk. Have you seen this first hand, or is this just the ramblings from her soon to be ex as an attempt to justify his crap behavior? Also, you do realize you can block her number so you can prevent those "drunk" texts.

 

Don't you and the bf live 3000 miles from this woman? I thought I'd read where you said that, if true, she really shouldn't be causing you any drama.

 

Yes, I know. He's recorded hours of video, taken pics, etc. in case of a court battle. We have mutual friends who also know.

 

I can block her number, but as I run a business, I can't block unavailable calls. I have blocked texts now, but the calls? No can do. Also kind of impossible for him to block her number as they share a child. He does block them now from 8 pm until 8 am.

 

And just so we are clear, my bf doesn't justify anything. It was crap behavior, but not anymore as we are an open relationship and he's left the marriage. She causes all kinds of drama... Even his priest applauded his leaving.

[Quiet Storm]

So happy together, I understand why you are defensive. Your relationship is important and fulfilling to you, and you don't like that others do not view your relationship as a valid one.

 

Many people think cheating is wrong, regardless of the circumstances. And many people think cheaters have character flaws, regardless of the BS.

 

When you say "BS is a drunk and nodding out on the toilet", it doesn't change the fact that your boyfriend was a cheater. Most will still see him as being a cheater, a liar and not a good candidate for a relationship.

 

You feel that his cheating was circumstantial. But myself, and many others, view cheating as a character issue. To us, this makes the goodness of the wife redundant. I would never cheat on my husband, whether he was an addict, an abuser, lazy, etc. My honesty, my integrity, my fidelity does not change, regardless of my spouse's behavior.

 

Everyone doesn't agree with this, but many people do. So if you consider that many of us view cheating in that light, you can understand where many BS, former OW are coming from.

 

Back on topic... there are different kinds of love.

 

Love as a feeling can be very fleeting or fickle. It can change based on the other person's behavior. It fades and sparks up again. You may hate him one minute if he acts like a jerk, love him again when he apologizes.

 

Love as an action is more stable, and expressed by commitment, or duty, and care. Think about an old married couple and the realities of their life. Most aren't kissing and having long late night conversations. They are helping each other take showers. Brushing a spouses hair. Making sure they take their medicine. Reminding each other of doctor appointments. Enjoying their memories, their history and finding joy in their family. I'm sure it's not too exciting to shave your husband when his hands shake too much, but it is an action that shows love. Not love based on feelings, but love based in duty and commitment.

 

Marriage is a mix of both feeling and commitment. During happy times, it's the feelings. You may want to be with him 24/7, love the smell of his sweat, the sound of his voice, talking & making love all night. During down times, when he's getting on your last nerve, when he's sick or injured, when there's not enough money, when your kid gets in trouble...the commitment and duty keep the marriage alive.

 

They didn't throw the vows for sickness & health, for better for worse, in there just because it sounds good. It's there because every marriage will have down times. It's a warning...things aren't going to be great all the time, but stick it out. What is a lover now, may evolve into a great friend, at the end. And that's okay.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I understand your pain. I, too, allowed myself to fall in love with my best friend. My allowing that to happen took my greatest joy and turned it into my greatest sorrow. Even though we both had marriages on the outside that LOOKED as if they were perfect, they obviously were not. We each had our own set of issues, which is why we turned to each other and crossed that line.

 

I have struggled with all of the whys, hows, what ifs, etc. over the past close to 4 years now (when the intensity of it began). I think I finally turned the corner beginning of this year and this forum has helped me do so.

 

Even though there are so many unanswered questions still, the one thing I do know is my xom loves his children immensely (and they are young) and he does love his wife - I question the depth of that love because of not only what he told me but also my daughters and others even after the final D-day - but make no mistake, he does love her and has obligation and responsibility. That trumps anything we had together.

 

This, unfortunately, is the price paid for falling in love with a married man.

[So happy together]

I'll drink to that!!

 

I never said that about any of you. But if you'd like to avoid it, you could always go back to your infidelity forum.

[MissBee]

Truce, Sohappy (waving white flag)! I couldn't resist! Just trying to lighten things up.

 

Look, we get that things are working out for you so far. Just don't make beating up on your MM's ex-W part of the fun. Many would argue that alcoholism is a disease - at the very least, it is an addiction that is extremely difficult to beat. Have some compassion for her.

 

Ditto.

 

I have no issues with anyone's happiness. But when it's "I'm soooo happpy...unlike that fat, cow over there :D" then it really stops seeming like happiness but like backbiting and bitterness with a facade of happiness coating it.

 

There are people I dislike and for valid reasons...but the beauty of being in love and happy is, the birds start chirping, the sun is brighter and the fat cow, I'm like awww...hope she's happy too. Or is it just me? When I'm happy, I'm overflowing with more compassion and just want all to be well or at least I don't care enough anymore about another person's faults to bring it up while basking in my own happiness. That's also a great way to know you're over your MM or any ex....once you stop needing to compare and contrast and curse their name. When I wasn't over my ex, every time something great happened for me I wanted to rub it in his face or would compare myself and my accomplishments to his latest gf of the moment....but slowly, I didn't care anymore. I didn't need to check my happiness against whoever he was dating and what he was or wasn't doing.

[threelaurels]

Ahh geez. They share a child, and you live across the county from each other? Why in the world would a father not have that child taken away from a drunken, toilet sleeping, non cooking, nasty woman?

 

Unless the child is now an adult.... But if her alcoholism has been a chronic problem, why did he allow the child to be raised in that kind of environment in the first place when the ex-wife was refusing help? That kind of situation is not healthy for any child.

 

If the child is still a minor and he doesn't have primary custody, why is he turning off his phone at night? I guess he would rather find out at 8:00am that his kid is dying of bacterial meningitis in some hospital rather than inmediately when it happens. Father of the year, right there.

[Eggplant]

BUT.... (and forgive me sohappy for jumping in here) why can't it be accepted that sometimes, the BS is a freaking disaster. That she (or he) legitiamtely is a nightmare and that it doesn't reflect on anyone else but them? Why SHOULDN'T those of us that deal with that say it?

 

Let's suppose that the BS is a nightmare. An abusive alcoholic, for instance. This situation may justify divorce. It does not justify cheating. So when an OM or OW accuses the BS of being a nightmare, it may upset people because it sounds as though the OM or OW considers that he or she is not in the wrong.

 

What judge, jury, and executioner should decide whether a BS deserves betrayal? I don't think the WS or AP is unbiased, nor should they take that decision into their own hands.

[Eggplant]

One of the strangest things to me about the whole thing is before the affair started (I had known him for many, many years) I would have NEVER seen him as a man who would cheat on his spouse. In fact, in my eyes he was one of the most decent and honorable man on the planet. By all outward appearances his marriage looked absolutely perfect. He doted on her. Gave her public displays of affection, they laughed, etc. I was SHOCKED when he revealed he had some feelings for me!!!!!!!

 

He has some decency and honor. No wonder you fell in love with him. He is flawed, however -- he had an affair.

 

PS: Just so everyone knows, I know that what we both did was not right.....but I did fall in love with someone I considered my best friend. Outside of not hanging out together like we did, I'm not sure I could help falling for him--just shouldn't have ACTED on it. Cheers!

This recognition means you're strong enough to acknowledge reality -- kudos.

[bellasue]

There may be some truth to that alimony thing. They own several properties and from what I know, considerable assets. Maybe he's afraid she'd take everything. Who knows. I am more inclined to think that she's of a certain age and he feels like it's not right to be selfish and leave beyond an age that he perceives is too old to remarry.

 

Of course this is all my take on things. I could be totally wrong.

 

The only thing that bothers me about the whole thing is the abrupt ending. By telling his wife, he knew that would mean the end of our friendship in totality. No more shared activities. So dammit....the FRIENDSHIP meant nothing to him. That or he knew he'd never be able to keep his hands off me. HAHAHA.

 

And I am getting to the point where I can laugh and joke a little about it.

 

Y'all are great in your insights! Glad to be part of the community!

[Lillyfree]

 

Doubtful. If he loved and respected his wife the way he should have, then he wouldn't have cheated in the first place.

 

 

yes. he didn't love and respect his wife *the way he should have* when he was banging someone else. but he loved and respected his wife MORE than the OW.

 

...as per my post...

[2sure]

How do you know he told his wife? I'm sorry, I'm sure it's here somewhere.

You said he told her because he wanted to do it before you did.

 

But how do you know he did?

[bellasue]

2Sure: The break up text said "I told my wife everything. She requests you do not contact our family any longer. With those conditions, no one else needs to know." I went to see him a few days later to find out what happened. He was all over the map uncomfortable. I don't know the full story to this day. He said she became suspicious and he just decided to spill everything. I know he did it because she emailed me a day later with the "conditions." I did try to call him once and he hung up on me......a day later when she answered his phone she did the same. Now I'm blocked from all communication. So I'm pretty sure she knows.

[Lillyfree]

 

as hard as it may be for either side to accept, a wayward spouse cheats because they decide to cheat

 

That is all on them.

 

exactly. and whom WS loves or loves more is moot - in the end they love themselves first and foremost.

[Lillyfree]

 

Maybe. Or maybe not.

He may have cared more for his money, his social status, his property, his image...Every night when he's with his wife, he might secretly be wishing he was still with his girlfriend, but wasn't willing to give up his "stuff" for her.

Or maybe not.

 

You don't know. None of us do. We can't answer for him. He made the choice, and they all seem to have hurt someone. That sucks.

 

As for the OP. I'm sorry you are hurting. It's a common theme that their standing, their need to protect, etc often comes into play, I'm sorry you lost your friendship.

 

re: bolded.... if those things come first, then there's no love at all, apart from self-love.

[Eggplant]

No one said they DESERVE to be betrayed.

Some people may read it this way if not explicitly said otherwise. Whether they should read it that way is another question ...

But they aren't all necessarily made of cotton candy and spun sugar and fluff.

Yes, they may be the devil.

As far as whether or not it upsets someone to read it, and this will be unpopular, but WHO CARES?

You asked "why it can't be accepted"? I wasn't saying you shouldn't upset people, but rather providing a possible explanation for the reaction, which you wondered about.

 

It sounds as though in this case the OP's MM's BW is not a horrible person.

[So happy together]

Ahh geez. They share a child, and you live across the county from each other? Why in the world would a father not have that child taken away from a drunken, toilet sleeping, non cooking, nasty woman?

 

Their child is an adult. And we won't be living far from one another for much longer.

 

She also texts or calls when she needs money, which he happily gives.

 

And she is everything you said. What's the matter? Did this post hit a nerve?

[Lillyfree]

And that was my point.

He obviously didn't love his wife the way he should have if he cheated, so to act like he stayed out of some altruistic motive is silly. It just makes him sound better.

 

completely agree.

 

so, in conclusion, MM staying with their wives is either out of love for their wives or love for themselves.

 

either way, OW shouldn't sit there picking apart and analysing his words and actions/lack of.

because if he stays married, she comes second on the 'love ladder'. every time.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

re: bolded.... if those things come first, then there's no love at all, apart from self-love.

 

Let me tell you something, that was the thing that upset my husband the most initially with my affair - the fact it's a no fault state and everything got split 50-50 - he even tried to get me to sign papers a month after d-day so that I would sign away any right I had to some property that we owned together because his parents had gifted it to us over a period of years. Of course after over 30 years of marriage, children and supporting him while he was in school I refused to do so - pissed him off royally

 

Now after his own affair, you can bet this is all number one on his mind. He knows exactly what would happen to the assets we have. He also knows that he would be paying me alimony for quite some time. I think he loves me, but I honestly believe that if it weren't for the loss of "stuff" he would be gone. I have seen both sides of it and even though I have to guess about why my xom was thinking I know he is definitely about his "stuff" - his expensive (and I mean expensive) guitars, boat, truck, etc. - it would absolutely kill him to part with any of it let alone sell it. I am watching my husband go through this. I am sorry to say the "stuff" is important to them - as well as whatever reputation they may think they have to protect.

 

It's kind of sad really.

[threelaurels]

Their child is an adult. And we won't be living far from one another for much longer.

 

She also texts or calls when she needs money, which he happily gives.

 

And she is everything you said. What's the matter? Did this post hit a nerve?

 

So why did MM allow his child to be raised in an unhealthy household? Sounds like CPS should have intervened. People don't just become alcoholics overnight.

 

And now she only calls and texts him for money? Sounds like they don't have a great relationship. I call my mother every day.

 

Your reply wasn't to me, but I happen to be a person who can't stand irresponsible parents who put their own needs before their child's... So it touched a nerve.

 

 

Nope if he stays married it's cause he loves himself or his stuff. Cause if he loved his wife... really loved her, he wouldn't cheat. Period.

As far as coming second on the love ladder, doesn't everyone? Sadly almost everyone puts themselves first..which makes everyone else second.

 

And if he really loved OW, he would divorce and go be with her exclusively, but apparently he likes his house, TV, and reflection in the mirror more than the love of either woman.

[So happy together]

So why did MM allow his child to be raised in an unhealthy household? Sounds like CPS should have intervened. People don't just become alcoholics overnight.

 

And now she only calls and texts him for money? Sounds like they don't have a great relationship. I call my mother every day.

 

Your reply wasn't to me, but I happen to be a person who can't stand irresponsible parents who put their own needs before their child's... So it touched a nerve.

 

 

 

 

And if he really loved OW, he would divorce and go be with her exclusively, but apparently he likes his house, TV, and reflection in the mirror more than the love of either woman.

 

 

He stayed in the relationship because he was afraid that if he left that he would not be there when his daughter needed him. He was afraid of what would happen when it was her time, because it is not illegal to drink. And for other reasons. CPS didn't intervene. Why would he call them on himself?

 

And it's his stbxw who calls about money. He is very close with his daughter, who was absolutely horrible when she first found out he was leaving the marriage, but is now okay with things. My boyfriend is close with his family, parents, brother etc. They know how his stbxw was and are glad he is out of that situation and they are fine with me.

 

 

As an aside, I know this question was for someone else, but it is possible for OW/OM to be in an EMR and be okay with it. It is possible that they never wanted MM/MW to leave. That the relationship is enough. I know several OW who have this arrangement and are perfectly happy. So is MM.