OK....so duty trumps love!

May 15, 2013

The love for his wife trumps the love for you. Not 'duty'. The love is different with his wife, but it is long term and enduring, with shared experiences. It's very hard to let go.

In some cases I believe he does love his wife more, however what about the cases where he continues the affair after dday. Do you honestly believe a man loves his wife more yet continues to lie, cheat and betray? You got to be kidding me, that makes zero sense. I believe in those cases the mm doesn't love the AP enough to leave the marriage and he certainly doesn't love the wife enough to stop the affair. IMO the only one he truly loves is HIMSELF!!!!!!

May 15, 2013

Respect is earned, I do wonder how many MM respect the OW who expect so little and put up with so much

Never mind the ow, he certainly doesn't respect the bs. So are you saying the bs hasn't earned respect?

May 15, 2013

Respect is earned, I do wonder how many MM respect the OW who expect so little and put up with so much

Uhm, same could be said for the BS? Even more so?

May 15, 2013

Good Morning Bellasue*

Just wanted to how I feel about your topic.

It is out of My Love for my H and family that I have a sense of duty to them.

So when I Do things out of, "my duties & responsibilities" it is done out of love.

I hope that made sense*

May 15, 2013

Very well said.

This is the first time I have read something that really makes sense to me.

The only thing I really cant get my head around is, how if the MM is so in love with his BS why did he ever start an affair that he knew would hurt his BS and family so much? Affairs just dont happen in good healthy marriages.

Im not sure I will ever find an answer but you have helped me understand some of what nags at my brain.

I'm sure many BS's and OW would love to know the answer to this one.

Selfish married people can easily separate sex and love. And they don't think of consquences, they can justify their affair to rid of the guilt. That is, until D-day then it all comes falling down a card house..

Some marriages are healthy, that's the thing. Many BS's on here were totally happy and had great marriages, yet their H's still cheated. THOSE men are broken inside. And yes, some marriages weren't so great, but that isn't an excuse to go and cheat. It's easier to go and cheat, do as one pleases rather than face the heat and fix problems.

Glad to help, sybo!

May 15, 2013

Respect is earned, I do wonder how many MM respect the OW who expect so little and put up with so much

My bf respects me. He has a lot more respect for me than he does his stbxw. And I've earned it. I will say that we have known one another for 18 years and always had this connection but didn't act on it until 18 months ago out of respect for his R with his daughter and my R with my ex. Since his daughter is now grown and has left home, he felt that he had given his entire life to a woman that did not give back. I won't go into my whole story, you can read it in past posts if you like but he's given up a lot to be with me, and he regrets nothing. He would have left with or without me, I'm just glad it was with me.

The thing I've noticed about my R with my bf is that we have a very well rounded relationship. It does not stop at just sex, it is an entire R and I think a lot of OW feel that way, they don't feel their R is any less relevant than the M, and even may be more relevant because the MM sought them out, wanted them, needed them. We are their comfort. Their safety. Everyone talks about ego and selfishness... with us, it was simply that he was very lonely and so was I... we had always had love for one another, and backed away from it because it was 'wrong'. Now I just wonder why we wasted so much time. We compliment one another so well that it is ridiculous and when we are together (we are in an open relationship now) the world just falls away and all that matters is our family that we're making together and our future. Would I have found someone else if I hadn't made the choice to be with my bf? Probably. Would it be the fulfilling, sweet, giving, kind, physically fulfilling relationship we have? No way.

I wish we had not started the relationship when he was still with his stbxw simply because I don't want to have her blame the failure of her marriage on me when she is the one that gave up on it a long time ago. I feel guilt in my own head, not because I am all that sorry stbxw is hurting, but because I am a better person than to have an affair. I demanded a lot from him from the get go, and he demanded a lot from me as well. We gave each what they needed. Stbxw needs to have a long look at how she treated my bf and learn from it. That, or she'll become the neighborhood cat lady because nobody would put up with what she did.

May 15, 2013

No - a "better person" would at least have some compassion for hurting someone else. How are you a "better person" than to be having an affair when you are, in fact, having an affair??

Don't worry about the ex-W - she is going to be just fine. She just unloaded a POS liar and cheater, who will now be your problem. Spend more time having a "long look" at yourself.

I always find this funny, when what happens in cases 'like mine' is that the affair couple marry, stay married forever, and are happy. No lying, no affairs, just happy. I've looked at myself. And yeah, I made a bad choice, but I learned from it, so did he, and we made it right.

Edited May 15, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

May 15, 2013

Sohappy - First, and I mean this sincerely, you two truly, truly deserve each other.

Secondly, you are fooling nobody. Your username belies your real situation. If you were truly "so happy", you would not be wasting your time on these forums rather than nuturing your "love". Further, the fact that 99% of your posts include belittling of BSs makes it clear that you are still very jealous of your cheater's ex-W. Sad.

LMAO! Whatever helps you feel better. You've no idea why I'm on this forum. You don't know my story, and I have absolutely NO jealousy toward stbxw. I feel sorry for the sad alcoholic she is. If she had simply been a decent human being, my bf would not have strayed. He's just not the serial cheater type.

We're happy. Lovin' it.

May 15, 2013

Truthfully? I think if he's telling you the truth about how he feels, if he really feels that's the case... that I feel very sorry for him. I think that he's a sad individual who will live a very miserable life where he feels alone pretty much all the time.

Doubtful. If he loved and respected his wife the way he should have, then he wouldn't have cheated in the first place.

I don't understand people that think the way you do. Love is not a luxury. To me, love is more important than anything else.
I'd live on the streets with someone I loved long before putting anything else first.
Staying out of obligation and duty.. how sad. I wouldn't want someone to stay with me for those things either

With all due respect, she did say men...You are a woman, no?

I happen to agree with P4P on this..As a man this is true in far too many cases..We are raised to nurture, to take care of our families, to provide. To be the big, strong arms for our little kids when they feel hurt or down.. Its serious business...I cant tell you how many male friends I know that have "indifferent" relationships with their wives, yet will never leave..

Sex/intimacy in those cases? That ship sailed long ago...They "love" their wives, but definitely NOT in the way that is most ideal....

TFY

May 15, 2013

LMAO! Whatever helps you feel better. You've no idea why I'm on this forum. You don't know my story, and I have absolutely NO jealousy toward stbxw. I feel sorry for the sad alcoholic she is. If she had simply been a decent human being, my bf would not have strayed. He's just not the serial cheater type.

We're happy. Lovin' it.

S-H-T...You may not care what I or anyone else thinks..but the way your posts come across you act like the drunk at the AA meeting...

I would just tone down the flowers and unicorns and ease off the badmouthing of the BS...I am sure your perspective is welcomed, but you leave yourself open with your delivery..

$.02...

TFY

May 15, 2013

I am a woman... and as such I can't answer for men, I can only answer for myself, but I still think that thinking that way is very, very sad.

Ill agree..LFH....As they say..."Sad but true"

TFY

May 15, 2013

And I am trying hard to do just that. Make sense and move on.

My expectations were never that he leave his wife, but rather to live up to the things he also promised to me....which he did not.

So on the one had, he's honorable in that he stayed true to his vows. On the other hand, he did hurt another person who he *claimed* he loved and wanted to be with as much as possible.

It's all fine. Things are how they are. I hurt, but less so than I did a month ago. Life marches on......

I'm sorry you're hurting.(((hugs)))

What did he promise you, if you don't mind me asking?

But indeed life does march on and you'll feel better. I learned my lesson, that if I'm gonna trust anyone to keep promises,don't let it be a person who has obligations to another life and a marriage, as more often than not, it will be a case of they can only keep their promises to the OW secondary.That is, his duty and responsibility to his family, primary relationship comes first and then whatever else he promised you. If both are conflicting, then often when deciding which ones to not keep,it will be the ones with the OW.

May 15, 2013

Uhm, same could be said for the BS? Even more so?

Not in terms of expecting little and putting up with a lot.

If a BS keeps taking back a serial cheater, the same could be said. Because at this point she knows and puts up with it.In an affair, where the OW is a secret and the MM is carrying on as usual, the BS isn't putting up with anything or expecting little. She's just living her life and expecting what any married person expects from their relationship.

OW on the other hand met a married man and is choosing to date one with the parameters and constrains in place and chooses to be a secret and chooses to date a man who has a life with someone else.The BS didn't knowingly choose that. MM hides the affair because his wife didn't sign up for that and many won't put up with it and they know they are changing terms. OW did sign up for the triangle though,unless she was lied to...otherwise an OW agrees for a myriad of reasons to still date a MM knowing what she may be signing up for and knowing what he can/can't do. That's the difference re: expecting little and tolerating much.

May 15, 2013

I always find this funny, when what happens in cases 'like mine' is that the affair couple marry, stay married forever, and are happy. No lying, no affairs, just happy. I've looked at myself. And yeah, I made a bad choice, but I learned from it, so did he, and we made it right.

I'm sure that is what all BS's want to believe, that it will be awful. Nope. It won't be. He's so glad to be away from his drunken, slovenly, lazy, stbxw, and I'm glad for him.

I think I mentioned this in another thread, because it was totally out of left field, but why do you take the chance to belittle BSs as a monolith at every turn? It's very weird. Even when the topic at hand isn't related to the BS.

At least be fair. People hate, as I'm sure you do, when people act like ALL OW are X way...yet it seems you have no problems making categorically negative statements about BSs.

At this juncture you are not married to your exMM forever or married at all from what I recall....so it's premature to put your situation into the "we will stay married and happy forever" category. I hope you will....and I hope with the years you won't feel the need to belittle all BSs. Because frankly, happy people tend to want others to be happy. I never met a genuinely happy person who always tries to contrast their happiness against the faults of another or every declaration of happiness is followed by a dig at someone else or a whole other group of people.

May 15, 2013

I think I mentioned this in another thread, because it was totally out of left field, but why do you take the chance to belittle BSs as a monolith at every turn? It's very weird. Even when the topic at hand isn't related to the BS.

At least be fair. People hate, as I'm sure you do, when people act like ALL OW are X way...yet it seems you have no problems making categorically negative statements about BSs.

At this juncture you are not married to your exMM forever or married at all from what I recall....so it's premature to put your situation into the "we will stay married and happy forever" category. I hope you will....and I hope with the years you won't feel the need to belittle all BSs. Because frankly, happy people tend to want others to be happy. I never met a genuinely happy person who always tries to contrast their happiness against the faults of another or every declaration of happiness is followed by a dig at someone else or a whole other group of people.

Well, let me be clear. I don't think ALL BS's do anything. I think that a lot of the BS's on this board like to pick apart my, and others' happiness in our relationships, whatever they are. Are you seriously telling me that a lot of BS's don't come to this forum and belittle the OW and tell them that their men are a... letsee, what was it? A "POS"? Yeah. Do you, personally, think it is kind to call the love of someone's life a POS? I hear it nearly every time I post. I am a member of other forums, and never have I seen such rancor. And I get my dander up because I think it's a little ridiculous that a BS or FBS thinks they are helpful by saying that stuff. Even now, when I say this, some BS will refute me with the fact that he is the love of my life. It's crap, and the BS's are just as guilty of it, moreso as this is a OW forum, not the BS's beat up on OW forum.

May 15, 2013

Well, let me be clear. I don't think ALL BS's do anything. I think that a lot of the BS's on this board like to pick apart my, and others' happiness in our relationships, whatever they are. Are you seriously telling me that a lot of BS's don't come to this forum and belittle the OW and tell them that their men are a... letsee, what was it? A "POS"? Yeah. Do you, personally, think it is kind to call the love of someone's life a POS? I hear it nearly every time I post. I am a member of other forums, and never have I seen such rancor. And I get my dander up because I think it's a little ridiculous that a BS or FBS thinks they are helpful by saying that stuff. Even now, when I say this, some BS will refute me with the fact that he is the love of my life. It's crap, and the BS's are just as guilty of it, moreso as this is a OW forum, not the BS's beat up on OW forum.

So report them.

And leave us fat, slovenly, mean alcoholic BSs out of your posts.

If you are happy, go. be. happy.

May 15, 2013

All I ever expected is respect for me as a woman. If he needed to end it, end it like a man and do it face to face. Because we were friends for so long prior to the affair, I didn't expect a one line text about how he told his wife and I was no longer part of his life.

I respect my friends way to much to treat them like dog doo. The truth is at this point I would still offer respect in terms of my treatment of him. Obviously I am owed nothing, but I think the way some WH and WW treat the OW/OM is shameful.

I do respect all of your opinions, and thank you for them. : )

bellasue....If he could lie, sneak, and avoid conflict with his wife to be with you, why do you think he would show you MORE RESPECT, MORE KINDNESS, more courage in ending it with you, than in his treatment of her?

See, you have to ALWAYS judge a man by his actions and how he treats ALL the others in his life, not JUST the way he treats you.

And I understand why that could be hard to do in an affair when you are convinced he is in that poor, loveless marriage, maybe with a slovenly, lazy, alcoholic to boot!

But my oldest brother told me that men are not too far removed from when we were all cave dwellers. Keeping that clan together is primal for men.

An unhappy wife will pack up those kids and leave if financially able to do so. Women live and die by our romantic relationships.

Men will romantically enjoy whatever comes there way, but they rarely will give up wife, home and hearth for it.

Is that duty? Responsibility? I don't know.

May 15, 2013

Honestly, I'm skeptical of the "duty trumps love" statement.

It seems to me that many people who engage in affairs feel profoundly guilty and also profoundly defensive at the same time. That's the essence of the "split self" affair, and it results in an endless series of justifications and rationalizations. The MM/MW just really needs to not be a cruel/bad person, even as s/he knows that what's happening isn't right/honorable.

And there are plenty of ways to spin a narrative to make that feel true - one of which is to create a false love/dichotomy storyline. That has the benefit of making you look good whichever one you choose. Choosing love is romantic; choosing duty is honorable. Win/win! Sounds to me like he created this narrative early on, and has wrung everything he can out of it.

I'm sorry, OP, because I know that sounds callous - I know this is painful to you, and breaking up in a text message is shxtty. I'm not trying to minimize your pain. I'm just skeptical of him.

He may well be unhappy in his marriage, but nothing is ever so black-and-white. These boards are FULL of that fake love/duty dichotomy, and to me, it's just one more tired, over-used way of doing spin control.

May 15, 2013

Are you seriously telling me that a lot of BS's don't come to this forum and belittle the OW and tell them that their men are a... letsee, what was it? A "POS"? Yeah. Do you, personally, think it is kind to call the love of someone's life a POS?

People who cheat are POS. I say this as a person who has cheated before. I fully expect the person who I cheated on and left for another guy to think I am worthless scum who belongs in the ninth circle of hell, even though he cheated on me as well.

Whether or not he's the love of your life is irrelevant. Cheating is a horrible thing to do, especially to someone who you once promised to spend the rest of your life with. If your boyfriend didn't want people to think he was a bad person, he should have, y'know, not cheated on his wife. As adults, we all have to accept that the judgement of other people is a consequence of our actions. When our behavior is something most people consider morally objectionable, we have to accept that those judgements are going to be harsh and negative. As the saying goes, if you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime.

May 15, 2013

And there are plenty of ways to spin a narrative to make that feel true - one of which is to create a false love/duty dichotomy. That has the benefit of making you look good whichever one you choose. Choosing love is romantic; choosing duty is honorable. Win/win! Sounds to me like he created this narrative early on, and has wrung everything he can out of it.

Couldn't edit in time, but I meant the bolded - typo.

Also meant to add that a second-tier benefit of this strategy is that you can (vocally and with great profundity of tone) choose first one and then the other, and the poor OW/OM is confused about how to be mad at you about either.

Edited May 15, 2013 by serial muse

May 15, 2013

I agree, he loves his wife more than he will admit to you. Affairs are about putting yourself first, and those that put themselves first do what's best for them, do what they want, so if he is with his wife, it's because that's what he wants. As someone going through reconciliation, I can tell you it's not the easy way out, it's painful and emmotional and you can not go through it unless its what you want and you love the other person. My husband has said, facing up to who he is has been the hardest thing he has ever done. Having an affair, lying and cheating was cake compared to dealing with the aftermath, but his love and devotion to us makes it worth it, walking away would have been easier, except for the part where he loves me.

May 15, 2013

One of the strangest things to me about the whole thing is before the affair started (I had known him for many, many years) I would have NEVER seen him as a man who would cheat on his spouse. In fact, in my eyes he was one of the most decent and honorable man on the planet. By all outward appearances his marriage looked absolutely perfect. He doted on her. Gave her public displays of affection, they laughed, etc. I was SHOCKED when he revealed he had some feelings for me!!!!!!!

Also, throughout the whole thing I learned some things about his emotional self. I think he is like a fragile little boy in a lot of ways. Doesn't express emotion. Claims no matter what his life situation is like, he'll make himself "happy." There were several times he indicated he would like if his life was different.

I guess that's part of my disconnect too. I'm not saying he would be happier with me per se, just maybe happier if his life took a different turn at a much younger age when it was more reasonable to do so.

Hope that makes sense. Don't even know if it's relevant to the discussion anymore, but it's therapeutic to get stuff out!

PS: Just so everyone knows, I know that what we both did was not right.....but I did fall in love with someone I considered my best friend. Outside of not hanging out together like we did, I'm not sure I could help falling for him--just shouldn't have ACTED on it. Cheers!

May 15, 2013

I've read a few posts that are much like my situation. xMM told wife of the affair because he thought I would eventually do it anyway. But he always told me "duty and responsibility trump love and affection." OK. He also told me on dday or shortly after that it didn't matter one iota what HE wanted. He was there for her. Period. Dot. End of story.

What do you all think?

Did he tell you beforehand that he planned to confess to his wife? Why did he believe that you would eventually tell her?

May 15, 2013

Well, let me be clear. I don't think ALL BS's do anything. I think that a lot of the BS's on this board like to pick apart my, and others' happiness in our relationships, whatever they are. Are you seriously telling me that a lot of BS's don't come to this forum and belittle the OW and tell them that their men are a... letsee, what was it? A "POS"? Yeah. Do you, personally, think it is kind to call the love of someone's life a POS? I hear it nearly every time I post. I am a member of other forums, and never have I seen such rancor. And I get my dander up because I think it's a little ridiculous that a BS or FBS thinks they are helpful by saying that stuff. Even now, when I say this, some BS will refute me with the fact that he is the love of my life. It's crap, and the BS's are just as guilty of it, moreso as this is a OW forum, not the BS's beat up on OW forum.

I don't think anyone is refuting that he is the love of your life. You were emotionally entangled with him for 18 years ( according to your posts) before you two stepped it up and started a more intense affair that led to him leaving.

I totally believe that he is the love of your life.

But that doesn't insulate you from the reality of the situation. Or the likely issues that people have told you they were worried about for you.

And it doesn't explain why you lash out at every opportunity.

I think people are concerned for you. We can see through the bravado. And most people don't wish for bad things to happen to other people.

May 15, 2013

Well, let me be clear. I don't think ALL BS's do anything. I think that a lot of the BS's on this board like to pick apart my, and others' happiness in our relationships, whatever they are. Are you seriously telling me that a lot of BS's don't come to this forum and belittle the OW and tell them that their men are a... letsee, what was it? A "POS"? Yeah. Do you, personally, think it is kind to call the love of someone's life a POS? I hear it nearly every time I post. I am a member of other forums, and never have I seen such rancor. And I get my dander up because I think it's a little ridiculous that a BS or FBS thinks they are helpful by saying that stuff. Even now, when I say this, some BS will refute me with the fact that he is the love of my life. It's crap, and the BS's are just as guilty of it, moreso as this is a OW forum, not the BS's beat up on OW forum.

SoHappy,

You yourself said "all BSs"...I was only responding to what you said. And in the other thread, it was the same kind of thing. If you don't believe "all BSs" then respond to the specific poster who made certain comments to you versus saying "I know all BSs wish this/think this", as the two type of responses are different. BSs didn't say it to you....a specific poster did.

Don't get me wrong, I get how it can be frustrating if you feel someone is trying to refute your happiness. But I think sometimes it just depends on what the thread is about and how you talk about your happiness. This thread for example is about bellasue...and her situation isn't your situation. I don't know if he is a POS or not, but she's not too happy, and the majority of OW who come here come with their A problems and not A happiness. I think usually it's in such threads that people will say the MM isn't worth it. What I see happens though, is a happy OW will come and give a story about her happiness and make it about proving her happiness in her relationship, as if it refutes the current OW's unhappy situation. When it doesn't. In discussion threads it's fine, but it's weird when it happens in someone else's thread who is currently unhappy.

You spoke at length about how you see your situation, and of course about his horrible wife, who gets mentioned in every single thread. Admittedly, it is very bizarre to me that every time you talk about your happiness..there is the ghost of the stbxw right there in the thread too. It's like you're happy but she is still an important part of your story, literally. Anyway....you said your bf respects you and I believe you. Yet, because this is true for you, doesn't really change the reality of bellasue's situation, which is very different from yours and which is the point of this thread.

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OK....so duty trumps love!

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