Is it weak to attempt reconciliation?

[Athens]

You are not weak, to honor your vows for better for worse is a strong honorable thing to do. Now, does he deserve you, that's a different question and one I struggle with. We are closer than we have been in years and I love him more than anything, does he deserve it, I am not sure, but I will do continue with this until I am whole one way or another, that does not make me weak, that makes me strong. If next week I decide to end it, I will...if I decide to stay, I will. All I know is that I am in control of my life and its a good thing.

[Confused48]

You are not weak, to honor your vows for better for worse is a strong honorable thing to do. Now, does he deserve you, that's a different question and one I struggle with. We are closer than we have been in years and I love him more than anything, does he deserve it, I am not sure, but I will do continue with this until I am whole one way or another, that does not make me weak, that makes me strong. If next week I decide to end it, I will...if I decide to stay, I will. All I know is that I am in control of my life and its a good thing.

 

This is a really great way to think. I like your perspective. Thanks.

[Confused48]

Confused, I really do know what you mean. When my XH cheated on me year 8 into the marriage, I stayed with him. Honestly, I am not sure of the reasons, but I guess they were that I loved him, I thought anyone can screw up, I had a 7 yr. old son.

 

I do love my WS. And I do think often that but for a few variables, I could be the one that screwed up. That so challenges me all the time.

 

Kids too for me. But I'm thinking they will be better off if we separate than stay together, unless we can really reconcile.

 

 

Life rocked on and I didn't exactly regret it, but I felt a little icky about myself. I wish I could explain what I mean, but I just felt like I settled, I stayed despite saying I would never do that, I felt I deserved it, I felt I didn't deserve it.

 

No explanation needed for me! I totally understand what you felt. Unfortunately.

 

I didn't feel the same about myself after and that is the worst part and if I am being truthful, that contributed to the demise of my marriage 14 years later.

 

Interesting. Do you regret the 14 years of trying to reconcile?

;t I filed Chapter 13 this very day, today.

 

So sorry to hear that. Another tough thing to get through o n top of the rest.

 

We went to counseling, too, both times, although I can't tell you if we got that much from it. We both have FOO issues and I can say some of these were in play from the beginning.

 

Before the A my WS and I went to three different MC. I got a lot out of each. WS, nothing. WS quit each time. I'm not ready to try that again. IC is enough for me for now.

 

 

I offered cheap forgiveness to make it all go away and I (just me, now....not saying it is best for everyone), wish I had packed his sh** up, sent him to his love, called her husband and told every single person I could about just what an ass he had been. I think that would have been better for me, regardless of whether it was for him or not.

 

Like Drifter777 said earlier in this thread, we three offered cheap forgiveness. I did do the 180 though, eventually. I'd did tell the other BS about the A and beyond that devastated the AP's life without having to tell anyone who knows me or WS. But I was to soft on WS for a long time post Dday. Not anymore.

[Confused48]

Do you feel that you might be betraying yourself by staying?

 

Yes. That is my fear.

[Athens]

As long as you feel strong enough to leave if and when you want, you are not betraying yourself...you are honoring yourself....strong enough to stay, strong enough to leave, that's the goal!

[2sure]

Yes. That is my fear.

 

I felt stupid when my husband cheated on me. We ultimately divorced, but if I thought he could have stooped, I would have reconciled. I wouldn't let anyone else's judgement influence me. Advice and support only thanks.

 

The hardest thing for me to get over has been, thinking how I was stupid to have not have known. To have trusted him, to have trusted my judgement.

 

It takes a lot to regain that confidence in yourself, let alone a marriage.

 

If he isn't all in, it won't work.

You should let others close to you know so that you have a support system and to take away the power of the secret.

[BeholdtheMan]

I see a lot of posts here from people that say they would never try to reconcile with a WS. Some say its just not for them but that they can see why others might try it. Others go farther and say it is a sign of weakness and that anyone that reconciles is making a bad choice. Nofool4U - is one that comes to mind. (Sorry if I misunderstand you NoFool.)

 

Deciding to attempt reconciliation is "weak" if the decision is made out of weakness. Are you choosing to reconcile because you don't think you'll be able to find another mate or because you're just clingy and desperate for your spouse's validation? If so, you are weak.

 

...or are you deciding to reconcile because despite high self-esteem and no problems finding another mate, you're choosing to give this person a chance for valid reasons (absolute remorse on your spouse's part and a forgiving heart on your part)? If so, I wouldn't say you're weak. You're simply more forgiving than me.

 

Above all, be honest with yourself. Are you really attempting reconciliation for "weak" reasons or "strong" reasons? Deep down you know the answer. Don't lie to yourself.

[2sunny]

Yes. That is my fear.

 

I understand that fear.

 

You will know when you are honoring yourself - because you will no longer wonder if you are or aren't.

 

What if you separated for a long term - to see if you can work to the other side of your fears - and to understand what you really want and need?

[Confused48]

Deciding to attempt reconciliation is "weak" if the decision is made out of weakness. Are you choosing to reconcile because you don't think you'll be able to find another mate or because you're just clingy and desperate for your spouse's validation? If so, you are weak.

 

...or are you deciding to reconcile because despite high self-esteem and no problems finding another mate, you're choosing to give this person a chance for valid reasons (absolute remorse on your spouse's part and a forgiving heart on your part)? If so, I wouldn't say you're weak. You're simply more forgiving than me.

 

Above all, be honest with yourself. Are you really attempting reconciliation for "weak" reasons or "strong" reasons? Deep down you know the answer. Don't lie to yourself.

 

I don't think it is so black and white for me. Maybe it should be. But for example, I do not think I would find another mate. But that does not impact me greatly. I like living alone. I prefer it. I gave up living alone for this one special person, pretty late in life. I also don't like change so that may be a factor, an unhealthy one.

 

But even if I were totally coming from a place of strength in making this choice and even if my WS was the most remorseful WS ever, I still think I might not want to do this. Maybe I'm not as forgiving as I need to be to do this.

[BeholdtheMan]

But for example, I do not think I would find another mate. But that does not impact me greatly. I like living alone. I prefer it.

Well, to simplify it even more...

 

I simply ask myself "Am I making a decision because of fear?"

 

Can I honestly say that I'm not choosing a path out of fear of stepping into the unknown, fear of putting in effort, fear of being alone, or fear of losing another person's validation etc.

 

Deep down I know when my decision is "cowardly". I'm pretty good at telling when I'm making excuses (not being honest with myself). For instance, I don't like public speaking. I have a mild case of stage fright. My mind automatically makes excuses when I'm confronted with the prospect of speaking in public. A voice whispers in my head "you have nothing to gain, you're tired, just keep your head low, why waste the effort".

 

Great thing is...I can detect my own bull**** (as most people can). Deep down I know the reason I don't want to speak in public is fear. I get nervous. When I'm tempted to pussy out. I force myself to confront my fear. I haven't always been able to do it, but when I do, I feel much better than when I don't.

 

I recommend people do the same thing when they're contemplating leaving/staying in a marriage. Call out your own bull****. Recognise when the weak part of your brain is feeding you excuses. Slap yourself (figuratively of course) when your weakness threatens to take over

 

Are you really staying because you "really really love her" or are you staying because you can't overcome your own neediness/fear that you have no other options? Keep it real with yourself.

Edited May 15, 2013 by BeholdtheMan

[meat department]

The first time I caught my H cheating I attempted to reconcile. For a variety of reasons none of them were about the love I felt for him. I honestly did not love him but I was scared of having a small child and being on my own, I was also aware that if I did D I would be the first of all of my circle of friends to leave. I was embarrassed about his cheating, especially because it was with men. He promised to stop and be better. We went to MC and it failed. He wasn't willing to admit he was gay (which is a topic for another thread)

The second time I caught him cheating I left.

It was not done in anger but I looked at the big life picture and thought about myself for a change and realized that I could not forgive him, or continue to reconcile. The second time he cheated with a woman, and now lives with her. We are 15 months separated now and mainly I feel relief. If you are staying because of fear that is not a life well lived. It is a life of fear. I can say with all honesty that while I am going through a nasty divorce life is way better not having to deal with reconciling and all those wasted emotions. I firmly believe that I have made the right choice to end the marriage.

Good luck on whatever you do. There are sadly no easy answers or choices when it comes to marriage and cheating.

[drifter777]

Well, to simplify it even more...

 

I simply ask myself "Am I making a decision because of fear?"

 

Can I honestly say that I'm not choosing a path out of fear of stepping into the unknown, fear of putting in effort, fear of being alone, or fear of losing another person's validation etc.

 

Deep down I know when my decision is "cowardly". I'm pretty good at telling when I'm making excuses (not being honest with myself). For instance, I don't like public speaking. I have a mild case of stage fright. My mind automatically makes excuses when I'm confronted with the prospect of speaking in public. A voice whispers in my head "you have nothing to gain, you're tired, just keep your head low, why waste the effort".

 

Great thing is...I can detect my own bull**** (as most people can). Deep down I know the reason I don't want to speak in public is fear. I get nervous. When I'm tempted to pussy out. I force myself to confront my fear. I haven't always been able to do it, but when I do, I feel much better than when I don't.

 

I recommend people do the same thing when they're contemplating leaving/staying in a marriage. Call out your own bull****. Recognise when the weak part of your brain is feeding you excuses. Slap yourself (figuratively of course) when your weakness threatens to take over

 

Are you really staying because you "really really love her" or are you staying because you can't overcome your own neediness/fear that you have no other options? Keep it real with yourself.

 

When you have deep-seated emotional issues, such as codependency, your mind will fool you into believing you are staying for the "right" reasons. It is a method of self-protection that worked really well for you at some point in your life but usually stops working when you reach adulthood. It's then you need to learn a better method of coping and that's a hard thing to do. I'm not saying the OP is codependent, I am saying it sounds like he is and I'm hoping he discusses this with his IC.

 

My point here is that it may not be a "choice" on OP's part as to how he reacted on d-day and the feelings of shame and anger he is feeling now.

[Confused48]

When you have deep-seated emotional issues, such as codependency, your mind will fool you into believing you are staying for the "right" reasons. It is a method of self-protection that worked really well for you at some point in your life but usually stops working when you reach adulthood. It's then you need to learn a better method of coping and that's a hard thing to do. I'm not saying the OP is codependent, I am saying it sounds like he is and I'm hoping he discusses this with his IC.

 

My point here is that it may not be a "choice" on OP's part as to how he reacted on d-day and the feelings of shame and anger he is feeling now.

 

I understand this and will take this up in IC next session for sure.

[Confused48]

We reconciled..it worked for us, but it was long, hard, and while I am for the most part very happy, there are still times when, for five cents, I would kick his sorry rear end up and down the street for what he did:laugh: ( just joking)...

 

no one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but I can tell you that's it's okay, and completely normal, to be confused. there's a new paradigm in your relationship, and if you are to stay together you'll have to find new ways to be married...

 

 

one thing to keep in mind is that just because you love him, that doesn't mean you need to stay with him. Love isn't always enough, there's so much more...

 

It's okay to stay together if that is what works for you...it doesn't make you weak or unable to stand on your own...

 

It's also okay to go your separate ways...that doesn't make you weak either...

 

Maybe try giving yourself a bit more time, get some counseling, and maybe, if you can swing it somehow, take some time on your own ( a short vacation maybe?) and try and get some clarity on your own without taking anyone else's feelings into consideration but your own...after all, the decisions you make will affect the rest of your life...you don't need to rush into anything

 

This is all very good. But the last line of course I have to remember, this is not a timed event. I'm not going to rush the decision.

[Steen719]

Interesting. Do you regret the 14 years of trying to reconcile?

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. While my son doesn't think he was better off with his dad and I living together, I think that is just anger and feeling abandoned the last year. I believe that his dad's influence was better than him not having him intimately in his life.

 

For me? We had some really good times in the that 14 years, but his betrayal after all I had done for him during his illness, including the incredible debt we owed d/t it has left me feeling cheated of time. Some may disagree with that, but my feelings are just that - my feelings.

 

Good luck to you. It is a tough go, but some people manage to make it work. I hope you are one of them. You do whatever you think is right and don't worry about what other people think of it.

[Confused48]

Do you have a friend or family member that you can maybe go stay with for a couple of weeks. Maybe if you had no contact with him at all for a couple of weeks to get your head straight and think things out, with out pressure from anyone, it would help?

 

I did a 180 at one point and got some distance. Was NC for a short period of time. I was very surprised at how good I felt. Felt no need to end NC. (WS persuaded me eventually.) It gives me confidence that I will be more than ok if I decide to leave. But no, I can't just go away for an extended period to think about it.

[2sure]

I think that if you are in a position where you know you could leave, you have the ability to leave...

 

It empowers you and gives you strength because you don't feel trapped, you are in control of your decision, and you know that your motives are not generated from need.

 

That makes reconciliation an act of courage, a risk you have the strength to withstand, and truly just a beautiful thing to do ...to put yourself out there in life and love.

[Confused48]

You could get legally separated and see how you feel in a year. You seem like you are really not going to be happy staying with him.

 

It's complicated. I'm really not happy about what WS did. It pains me greatly. But right now I am happy with and enjoy being with WS. I just have this feeling that the past will haunt me. Does haunt me. Makes me feel that despite this moment being good, I'm settling for a WS. That despite the M being good it is an M with a WS and so it is somehow not good enough.

[Benedictatu]

If you have walked away from a marriage it is very hard to go back. I thought he would come running after me because he couldn't live without me but he didn't, and I had to go back to him. He made me promise all kinds of things and it was not easy. I don't think reconciliation is for the weak.

 

And then even after he got everything he wanted he still left me.

[Confused48]

If you have walked away from a marriage it is very hard to go back. I thought he would come running after me because he couldn't live without me but he didn't, and I had to go back to him. He made me promise all kinds of things and it was not easy. I don't think reconciliation is for the weak.

 

And then even after he got everything he wanted he still left me.

 

Wow. That sent shivers down my spine. I'm making demands and getting mostly everything I want. Thinking that I can figure out how to structure this so that recon will be ok. But I can see that maybe there won't be enough that WS can do for me to make it ok.

[Snowflower]

It's complicated. I'm really not happy about what WS did. It pains me greatly. But right now I am happy with and enjoy being with WS. I just have this feeling that the past will haunt me. Does haunt me. Makes me feel that despite this moment being good, I'm settling for a WS. That despite the M being good it is an M with a WS and so it is somehow not good enough.

 

I completely understand your confusion.

 

Confusion was the predominant emotion for me from about 1 year post d-day until about 6 months ago. So yep, for 3 years I lived with that confusion.

 

On one hand, I really loved (love) my husband and we could always have a great time together. We liked a lot of the same things and had similar mindsets in getting things done. We were a great team. I am speaking of before and after his affair.

 

48, I hear the same things in your postings. You love him but you hate what he has done to your marriage. You go back and forth between thinking you can make it and then you think you can't/won't/shouldn't. I totally get it!

 

All I can say is that is an individual decision and a very individual journey in order to get to that place of decision.

 

I am not sure if you have children involved. Not even sure if you're a BW or BH from your postings. One suggestion I would make because I think I would have done it in my situation if I did not have children with my H...was to go ahead and divorce. Maybe we would have continued to live together with combined finances. Hung out together and basically act as the married couple we always had been.

 

But there would have been a difference for me...no broken vows, unkept promises or that feeling of living in a sham? insincere? broken? (not sure what exactly is the right word to use) marriage. The pressure would have been off, no lies, no pretending, I don't know.

 

My H and I could have still been together because we loved each other but there would have been no "expectations" like you have in a marriage. Sorry, this is hard to explain.

 

I'm rambling...but I do understand your confusion.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Snowflower

[Confused48]

I completely understand your confusion.

 

Confusion was the predominant emotion for me from about 1 year post d-day until about 6 months ago. So yep, for 3 years I lived with that confusion.

 

On one hand, I really loved (love) my husband and we could always have a great time together. We liked a lot of the same things and had similar mindsets in getting things done. We were a great team. I am speaking of before and after his affair.

 

48, I hear the same things in your postings. You love him but you hate what he has done to your marriage. You go back and forth between thinking you can make it and then you think you can't/won't/shouldn't. I totally get it!

 

Yes, this is it. Exactly.

 

I am not sure if you have children involved. Not even sure if you're a BW or BH from your postings. One suggestion I would make because I think I would have done it in my situation if I did not have children with my H...was to go ahead and divorce. Maybe we would have continued to live together with combined finances. Hung out together and basically act as the married couple we always had been.

 

But there would have been a difference for me...no broken vows, unkept promises or that feeling of living in a sham? insincere? broken? (not sure what exactly is the right word to use) marriage. The pressure would have been off, no lies, no pretending, I don't know.

 

My H and I could have still been together because we loved each other but there would have been no "expectations" like you have in a marriage. Sorry, this is hard to explain.

 

I totally get this too. I did file. I am thinking why not complete it and then if recon does not work then the leaving will be easier and quicker. Like one poster said, we can always decide to get remarried if recon does work.

[Confused48]

I completely understand your confusion.

 

Confusion was the predominant emotion for me from about 1 year post d-day until about 6 months ago. So yep, for 3 years I lived with that confusion.

 

So it is over for you, the confusion? You are now completely comfortable with your H? What facilitated that change, the passage of time with good behavior?

[KathyM]

It's not weak to attempt reconciliation if you feel there is enough there in your marriage and your relationship to try to save it, and you feel you would be able to get past the betrayal and broken trust, and your spouse is remorseful and working on the marriage with a humble and contrite heart. But if you are only staying out of fear of change, or fear of the unknown, or fear of being alone, I would say there is weakness in those reasons, and you would not be giving yourself enough credit for being able to handle these things. Many people do decide that the betrayal and broken trust is too much to work through, and their relationship has been so damaged because of it that they would not want to invest more of their life into it, so they divorce. There is strength in that position as well. Both decisions require strength, but to reconcile only because of fear and need to keep the status quo because of fear of change is like reconciliation by default and not by a position of strength. Personally, I would want my independence if my husband ever betrayed me, because I believe trust is the foundation in a marriage, and I would feel that if he didn't value me and our marriage enough to remain faithful, then he doesn't deserve my love and fidelity, and I would want to find someone who does deserve it, but that is my own opinion. Both decisions require strength to carry out. But if the decision to stay is made out of fear, then I would say that shows weakness, and you would be shortchanging yourself and not giving yourself enough credit to be able to handle change. JMO.

[Snowflower]

 

 

 

I totally get this too. I did file. I am thinking why not complete it and then if recon does not work then the leaving will be easier and quicker. Like one poster said, we can always decide to get remarried if recon does work.

 

Exactly! ^^^

 

Now, I'm not telling you to go through with the divorce, that is your decision. I just wanted to explain the option, which it seems like you have been thinking the same thing, along the same lines!

 

 

 

So it is over for you, the confusion? You are now completely comfortable with your H? What facilitated that change, the passage of time with good behavior?

 

Yes, the confusion has ended for me. It was long process; one that I fought internally for way too long.

 

I am at peace with my decision to remain with him and I am comfortable with my H. But remember, this has now been 4.5 years and I'm still seeing my feelings evolve in this. You're still very early on.

 

The questions you ask are difficult ones! I am still in this process although it is very different for me now. You are very correct in that it was somewhat the passage of time and good behavior (mostly) from my H.

 

Really what facilitated the change were some changes within me more than him almost. I had to quit trying to rationalize or "explain away" his choice to have an affair. I took on way too much of that burden in trying to intellectually understand what had happened.

 

So, I am at an odd place now. My youngest child will leave for college in the fall, we are in the process of downsizing our living quarters, I had a big promotion at work...all ingredients for making some major life changes, if you know what I mean.

 

And maybe because of these changes and opportunities I am at long last at peace with what happened. It will always hurt but there is no way around that whether I stay or go. No, by staying with my H, I have chosen to stay with the "devil I know."

 

Oh sure, I could divorce him and move on to someone who would theoretically "never cheat on me." Which is the common advice given to someone who has been in our situation.

 

But you know, I'm just a little too jaded for that now. I will never, ever be that naive or trusting again. Even in a new relationship, I would always be worried...maybe even more so because no matter how great or honest this new man seemed, he could STILL CHEAT...just like my H did. In some ways, it would be worse because I would have to go through all that again with someone whom I presumed/hoped wouldn't do that.

 

It's kind of like staying with a "known quantity" KWIM? Besides, like you, I still love my spouse. I love him being in my life and I know that he loves me back, despite his fatal errors. That isn't something I can easily walk away from. If he didn't love me or I no longer felt the same about him, it would be a different story.

 

However, I could go to the courthouse and file for divorce today if I decided that was best. I am perfectly okay with that. It is a strange dichotomy and an odd way to live out my romantic life.

 

Although, I must admit, I have never felt freer in many years...since well before his infidelity. I know I've posted about this change of mine in other threads. Might want to look at some of my recent postings about this.

Not sure if any of this helps you...but it kind of helps ME writing it out like this.