Sheilalou008 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Me too. At work... I almost feel drunk from this nonsense.
Sheilalou008 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Look, you really have to stop thinking you can read my mind. I personally believe that a man can be deeply in love and be able to have meaningless sex with hookers. Sorry, but I do not believe you when you claim to know how ALL men in love feel. And it was not some excessive hooker use that replaced being intimate with me. EVERY ONE who knows him think it is just him, and he will NEVER lose his ability to use a hooker no matter HOW in love he is. He may find a women he loves deeper than he loved me, but not easily. I believe he loved me a great deal and still does. I do not believe all men are 100% monogamous in nature, irrespective of HOW in love they are. I have read too many studies, researched it extensively enough, and just intellectually believe that a man in love is capable of using a hooker or two. It would only have perturbed me if Andrew felt a need to do it, in order to BE HAPPY with me. My instinct and gut feelings told me that he would have been happy enough with me to forgo the hookers. I disagree. I am sorry but you just told me I should not assume I can read your mind but turned around and did the same thing. I never said all men, but I will go with most cus it ISN'T healthy! Period. Diseases aside, it is a self worth issue. We have exceeded issues...we are into subscriptions, folks. 1
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Sorry guys, I believe Andrew loved me. None of you are going to make me believe that Andrew will easily meet girls where he thinks " wow I didn't really love Leigh at all, I am so not able to have sex with a hooker ever again now cos I love this girl enough to lose my capacity to do that" I believe Andrew loved me as much as he could love a women. I don't believe what other people who do not know either of us think. Sorry. You really cannot convince me that he never loved me. I do not think all men lose the ability to have meaningless sex, no matter how in love they are. It does not mean I will tolerate it again. It just means that your COMMENTS regarding how he never loved me ARE NOT helping me, and serve no purpose. I know when I guy adores me, is crazy about me, and is in love with me. I know Andrew would do the same to any girl. End of story please. Your not going to make me think the way you do.
Sheilalou008 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Sorry guys, I believe Andrew loved me. None of you are going to make me believe that Andrew will easily meet girls where he thinks " wow I didn't really love Leigh at all, I am so not able to have sex with a hooker ever again now cos I love this girl enough to lose my capacity to do that" I believe Andrew loved me as much as he could love a women. I don't believe what other people who do not know either of us think. Sorry. You really cannot convince me that he never loved me. I do not think all men lose the ability to have meaningless sex, no matter how in love they are. It does not mean I will tolerate it again. It just means that your COMMENTS regarding how he never loved me ARE NOT helping me, and serve no purpose. I know when I guy adores me, is crazy about me, and is in love with me. I know Andrew would do the same to any girl. End of story please. Your not going to make me think the way you do. Men who grow up and realize there is more to life than sex will outgrow it. I have seen it with my very eyes. I believe he loved you. No one is questioning that, but did you love him as much as you protest he did? What did you do to show your love daily and what about him?
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 look guys, I don't believe I was some useless women in his life who he didn't give a damn about and used for sex for almost 3 years. I believe he loved me as much as he could love a women. I just think he has the ability to use hookers when he is in love and crazy about a women. There is no use in telling me how my ex felt about me. I do not think people online could have a better idea than I do, regarding how he felt. And in any case, I do not really need people telling me that he never loved me and therefore I should move on because he does not miss me, and in fact,never gave a damn anyway. Sorry. Can you not see that your not changing my mind about him? I believe I am moving on from a man who still loves me and simply cannot be with me due to my personal issues. I do not think he will easily move on and soon find a women and magically realise that wow he never loved Leigh and blablabla
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 "I know when I guy adores me, is crazy about me, and is in love with me." Because you hold him down and threaten to cut him if he doesn't say it, right? Or boil his rabbit in his kitchen. That's when he'll know she means this is true love. 1
Sheilalou008 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 "I just think he has the ability to use hookers when he is in love and crazy about a women." This is twisted and not normal thinking. 2
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 look guys, I don't believe I was some useless women in his life who he didn't give a damn about and used for sex for almost 3 years. I believe he loved me as much as he could love a women. I just think he has the ability to use hookers when he is in love and crazy about a women. There is no use in telling me how my ex felt about me. I do not think people online could have a better idea than I do, regarding how he felt. And in any case, I do not really need people telling me that he never loved me and therefore I should move on because he does not miss me, and in fact,never gave a damn anyway. Sorry. Can you not see that your not changing my mind about him? I believe I am moving on from a man who still loves me and simply cannot be with me due to my personal issues. I do not think he will easily move on and soon find a women and magically realise that wow he never loved Leigh and blablabla I haven't heard one person say he didn't like you at one point. We're just saying this relationship wasn't healthy. And that your current dialogue about the relationship is not healthy. We basically think you need therapy. Unlike other threads, there is not one person here justifying and supporting your viewpoints. I think that should tell you something. 1
TaraMaiden Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Look, you really have to stop thinking you can read my mind. I deserve nothing less than a guy who is totally crazy about me and loves me deeply. And who you will feel exactly the same about....? Andrews DAILY actions towards me showed that he adored and did indeed love me. Otherwise, I would not have been happy to be with him. and you did exactly the same for him, and showed that you adored and did indeed love him.... ? I personally believe that a man can be deeply in love and be able to have meaningless sex with hookers. Love doesn't mean respect. I'm not sure he can be.... Sorry, but I do not believe you when you claim to know how ALL men in love feel. Accepted.... And it was not some excessive hooker use that replaced being intimate with me. EVERY ONE who knows him think it is just him, and he will NEVER lose his ability to use a hooker no matter HOW in love he is. That remains to be seen... He may find a women he loves deeper than he loved me, but not easily. I believe he loved me a great deal and still does. Do you love him as deeply? Do you still love HIM as much as he loves you? I do not believe all men are 100% monogamous in nature, irrespective of HOW in love they are. No man or woman is monogamous by nature.... period. I have read too many studies, researched it extensively enough, and just intellectually believe that a man in love is capable of using a hooker or two. he may be capable of love, but it will always be conditional.... It would only have perturbed me if Andrew felt a need to do it, in order to BE HAPPY with me. what makes you so absolutely sure he didn't? My instinct and gut feelings told me that he would have been happy enough with me to forgo the hookers. so why didn't he? Leigh.... I really think you have a problem with 'giving out'.... because it doesn't seem to figure anywhere in your vocabulary, either about Andrew or your eventual FWB. I think you need crave and expect adoration. Possibly rooted in your self-esteem issues - you feel you should have it, deserve it and are entitled to it.... But I think you actually find it impossible to love in the same way - to the same degree, to the same measure....and that's to stop you being hurt deeply, long-term. I actually think you've blocked 'love'..... 2
Sheilalou008 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 If my bf told me wanted to bang hookers for some meaningless sex but loved me to the ends of the earth, worshiped the ground I walked on and adored me. I would run for the hills. No way in hell would I ever be ok with it. No matter if it was once.
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Look, Andrew showed me daily his love. I honestly do not get into relationships with men who I don't adore me and love me on some level. Here area few things that you will probably slam anyway, since there is obviously nothing I can bloody SAY or DO that will convince anyone here that he did in fact love me. He woke up and would act happy to wake up next to me. Some days he would say " wow I am so happy to have you in my life" He would often say while he was holding me in bed that " there was no place he would rather be" He would be genuinely happy to come home to me, and this did not dissipate as time went on. I was clearly the closest person to him in life: he felt the need to see his best friends once a week and that is it, for a poker night. And NO I did NOT make him spend most of this time with me. I NEVER once moaned about him wanting to make other plans. He has good friends and loves to be independent, yet still chose to spend most of his life with me; not because he had no options. He said he fell more in love with me as time went by HIS JOURNAL highlighted how much he loved me, and how he was scared how he would do anything for me He expressed several times that he thought of marrying me, but he could see I had issues I needed to address in order for the relationship to move forward. ANYTHING you see the loved up couples doing, he did for me. We always hugged and held hands and genuinely WANTED to touch each other out of love, and not out of wanting to be connected or needing to act that way to prove something ............................................. Before me, his best friends told me at length how he never called a girl gorgeous, beautiful, or sweetie the way he did me. He is not the type of man who just goes and says those things to just ANY GIRL he comes across!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is what I liked about him: he was not the type of men to say goodnight gorgeous" every day and to every women. He does not readily throw affectionate terms around to women, and in fact, had not done so before he met me. His journal., which he to this day does not know I looked in, DETAILS how he NEVER called a girl gorgeous, beautiful, or anything like that UNTIL ME. .......................... Now I am not a rocket scientist, but I would say that he loved me as much as he could love a women. He was in the popular group growing up in sunny Australia - there were hot girls all around him who fancied him. A few told him they loved him even. He never found a girl he was into until his ex, and then me. His ex was a model with a masters degree and is way more awesome than I am, on paper and in the looks department... He DOES NOT have low standards and he does NOT date women for the hell of it.
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Leigh.... I really think you have a problem with 'giving out'.... because it doesn't seem to figure anywhere in your vocabulary, either about Andrew or your eventual FWB. I think you need crave and expect adoration. Possibly rooted in your self-esteem issues - you feel you should have it, deserve it and are entitled to it.... But I think you actually find it impossible to love in the same way - to the same degree, to the same measure....and that's to stop you being hurt deeply, long-term. I actually think you've blocked 'love'..... NO way. I think I can love to the fullest extent. I loved Andrew. I loved him more than I did my own parents. Or just as much:o I looked at him and it scared me because I knew I would have stuck by him if anything happened to him. I really would have stood by him if he lost his legs or of anything terrible happened to him. My love is as deep as the next person.
TaraMaiden Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I have always said, for the record, that I hold the firm belief that human beings are not PROGRAMMED to be monogamous. CONDITIONED, yes. Programmed...? No. If we were, we'd all still be with the first person we ever gave our hearts to. But I also say, repeatedly, that if someone dedicates themselves to a monogamous relationship, then they should keep their word, and keep their legs firmly snapped shut, except for their chosen partner. An open relationship, is a choice. BOTH members of the relationship have the right and privilege - accorded to them by their partner - to have sex with someone else. But if you're in a one-to-one, really, fundamentally, that's the way it should stay. 3
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Ohhhhhh no Tara, sorry about this one, but I believe your mistaken. I loved everything about him. The way he talked, walked, and just was. In the beginning, the things I found annoying or slightly off putting, I looked at with such love. Little things, just his voice and the way he was. I did love him even though I have issues. I do not think I will ever love someone "more" per say.. And I believe it to be the same with him. I think we will both move on to love another person in a different way, but not more than we did each other. My family friend who is very experiences in relationships and love and who is mentally stable and is of high emotional and intellectual intelligence recommended to me that: " it is not like you love the next person MORE than the last; with me, each relationship was beautiful in their own way, and each mad taught me a lot more about myself, which did make me happier in my next R as I knew who I was and what I needed from a man" I do not think either of us will love MORE; sorry Andrew and I BOTH felt that we loved each as much as we could love a person. Perhaps our love was not fully complete or developed, due to my inability to be... mentally healthy all of the time. And he had issues too.
TaraMaiden Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 NO way. I think I can love to the fullest extent. I loved Andrew. I loved him more than I did my own parents. Or just as much:o I looked at him and it scared me because I knew I would have stuck by him if anything happened to him. I really would have stood by him if he lost his legs or of anything terrible happened to him. My love is as deep as the next person. Do you know....? I really want to believe that. But I can't. because you are not behaving in the normal pattern or manner that a person who has just ended an 2.5 year relationship does. This isn't normal. To be discussing sharing your sexuality with a FWB situation, one day after you have implemented NC - is frankly, bizarre. And to be discussing just how head-over-heels in love Andrew is with you, in the same thread as you talk about casual sex with another man - is actually breath-takingly callous. 3
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 I have always said, for the record, that I hold the firm belief that human beings are not PROGRAMMED to be monogamous. CONDITIONED, yes. Programmed...? No. If we were, we'd all still be with the first person we ever gave our hearts to. But I also say, repeatedly, that if someone dedicates themselves to a monogamous relationship, then they should keep their word, and keep their legs firmly snapped shut, except for their chosen partner. An open relationship, is a choice. BOTH members of the relationship have the right and privilege - accorded to them by their partner - to have sex with someone else. But if you're in a one-to-one, really, fundamentally, that's the way it should stay. I wish others shared our view on that... Most people seem to wrongly believe that because a guy like Andrew saw hookers, that he was not that in love with me; that he would easily find another women where he would lose the ability to see hookers. I think he could have seen hookers in the manner in which he did, with any women. The reason I do not want that in a relationship again, is because I do not desire to do it and therefore I need a totally monogamous relationship. Things like you have told me about the relationship either being open or not, have helped me to realise what I need the next time around...... Hence why I come on here; not to get slammed by people on here who claim to know that Andrew never loved me to begin with. I come to listen to people like you, who try to advise me that it would be healthier for me to find a guy who is like me; into being totally monogamous
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Here are just a few of the things my ex did to show he loved me: Cleaned my kitchen or did my dishes at my house without being asked (actually, this used to drive me a little bonkers but his heart was in the right place). Brought me coffee in bed in the mornings. Ran errands for me during the day if I didn't have time. Picked up books at the library he knew I wanted to read. Brought me leftover dinner from whatever he cooked if I got home late at night so I wouldn't have to cook after a long day. Gave me foot massages almost every night. Made sure he had all my favorite personal hygiene products at his house so I wouldn't have to "pack a bag" to go back and forth. Held me while I cried and listened to me when I needed to vent. Supported me in my career ambitions. Filled my car with gas or washed it to surprise me. Made me dinner, lunch, or breakfast. Stayed in on lazy Saturdays after I had a long work week, even though he wanted to get out of the house. Hung my curtains in my house, without me asking him to. Asked his mom to make a turkey the first time I went home with him for Thanksgiving because that's my traditional T-Day meal. They are Japanese and normally have all Japanese cuisine and sushi (which I love so would have been fine). And so many other countless things I can't begin to remember or mention here. It wasn't about holding hands, kissing, cuddling or sex. He actively did things for me, with or without asking me, that demonstrated to me he really truly loved me. Sometimes it drove me a little bonkers, but I know he did it because he cared about me and this is how he showed me. He also never slept with hookers. You need to think about these things. Put things into perspective. 3
PogoStick Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 First just like to say I love when she says "hookers", especially "banging hookers". Second, Leigh may have her issues but ya'll are pretty obsessed with her. Third, absolutely a guy in love can have meaningless sex with hookers, or more correctly with women. And why limit this ability to just men? If it worked for their relationship then bang away.
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Do you know....? I really want to believe that. But I can't. because you are not behaving in the normal pattern or manner that a person who has just ended an 2.5 year relationship does. This isn't normal. To be discussing sharing your sexuality with a FWB situation, one day after you have implemented NC - is frankly, bizarre. And to be discussing just how head-over-heels in love Andrew is with you, in the same thread as you talk about casual sex with another man - is actually breath-takingly callous. I am not ready to do it yet. I am just thinking about the future and my movements as I move forward. I know he would be heartbroken if I hooked up with someone. The last time we saw one another he told me that he wants me to tell him if I do; that he cannot handle it, as he does not want to put an end to us for good Of course I will not move on ANY time soon. It just helps me to look forward to enjoying my future, It helps me to look forward, and for me, being sexual is a big part of who I am. I was just thinking about something I would do in the future. I am hoping in 6 weeks during the trip, that this is a long enough time period after the break up to move on and potentially hook up. By then it would have been TWO MONTHS since he left me. I do think that is enough of a grace period, in so far as being considerate of his feelings?
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Leigh, I really wish you were in a good headspace to read your posts neutrally to see what we see. You're not. So I'm bowing out. This is just too sad and depressing to watch at this point. Hopefully some day, you will get it. You will get that you deserve more than what you're providing yourself. I wish you well. 1
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Here are just a few of the things my ex did to show he loved me: Cleaned my kitchen or did my dishes at my house without being asked (actually, this used to drive me a little bonkers but his heart was in the right place). Brought me coffee in bed in the mornings. Ran errands for me during the day if I didn't have time. Picked up books at the library he knew I wanted to read. Brought me leftover dinner from whatever he cooked if I got home late at night so I wouldn't have to cook after a long day. Gave me foot massages almost every night. Made sure he had all my favorite personal hygiene products at his house so I wouldn't have to "pack a bag" to go back and forth. Held me while I cried and listened to me when I needed to vent. Supported me in my career ambitions. Filled my car with gas or washed it to surprise me. Made me dinner, lunch, or breakfast. Stayed in on lazy Saturdays after I had a long work week, even though he wanted to get out of the house. Hung my curtains in my house, without me asking him to. Asked his mom to make a turkey the first time I went home with him for Thanksgiving because that's my traditional T-Day meal. They are Japanese and normally have all Japanese cuisine and sushi (which I love so would have been fine). And so many other countless things I can't begin to remember or mention here. It wasn't about holding hands, kissing, cuddling or sex. He actively did things for me, with or without asking me, that demonstrated to me he really truly loved me. Sometimes it drove me a little bonkers, but I know he did it because he cared about me and this is how he showed me. He also never slept with hookers. You need to think about these things. Put things into perspective. I agree that it is not just about the hand holding and the thing you see men doing in the movies. Andrew did a few of the things you guy did for me too; nice things without me having to ask him to. He had no money and he still filled my car with gas when I he knew I needed help. Andrew did a lot of similar things your ex did. He actually opted to almost cancel his plans, fun plans with friends, because " I was acting cute and he wanted to be around me and watch TV at home with me" instead of going out. Sorry but the fact your ex did not sleep with hookers does not mean that he loved you more than Andrew loved me. You have no way of measure love, and assuming there is less love because a man is capable of having sex with hookers. I personally feel that Andrew loved me as much as he can love a women, and I do not think he will EASILY meet other women where he will suddenly treat them a whole lot "better" than he treated me.
Author Leigh 87 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 aisuru I'm sorry, but your not going to convince me that Andrew did not love me very much, and only had be around for convenience. I believe he loved and adored me. Some men operate differently. The men you know that are deeply in love are not able to have meaningless sex with hookers. My ex, and other men I believe, are not like this. Not all men who are in love are capable of the same things. Most of the time I was extremely happy with Andrew and the way our relationship ended up being like.
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I agree that it is not just about the hand holding and the thing you see men doing in the movies. Andrew did a few of the things you guy did for me too; nice things without me having to ask him to. He had no money and he still filled my car with gas when I he knew I needed help. Andrew did a lot of similar things your ex did. He actually opted to almost cancel his plans, fun plans with friends, because " I was acting cute and he wanted to be around me and watch TV at home with me" instead of going out. Sorry but the fact your ex did not sleep with hookers does not mean that he loved you more than Andrew loved me. You have no way of measure love, and assuming there is less love because a man is capable of having sex with hookers. I personally feel that Andrew loved me as much as he can love a women, and I do not think he will EASILY meet other women where he will suddenly treat them a whole lot "better" than he treated me. I never said my ex loved me. Or that he loved me more than Andrew loved you. I never said one was better than the other. I was just pointing out some things. In fact, stating some of these things made me realize my own faults in my ex relationship. But I'm no NC and deserve all that entails. You show people how they can treat you. Hopefully some day, you figure all of this crap out. Cause if you don't, you'll just find yourself in another unfulfilling relationship. Good night Leigh. 1
aisuru Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 You deserve a medal... You lasted longer than most. VODKA. I needed the distraction tonight. Sleeping pill is kicking in. Nighty night!
Recommended Posts