MissBee Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 Miss bee I have never said we were in a serious relationship. I have said we were in a casual non exclusive multi-dating kind of situation. I have said that many times. I even made a point of telling M it was just my parents wanting to show their gratitude to hers and it wasn't anything more. (Could M have wanted it to be more?) I know you said this. So with that knowledge that you aren't serious, it seems like on one hand you aren't, but then want her to meet the parents and all that, which implies it is more. I was simply commenting that if you guys are so casual then why waste copious mental space analyzing her? Why try to get her to meet your family? I hear you...but as sweetkiwi said and I cosign, is that you're saying it's casual but still doing stuff that isn't in fact casual and then she freaks out. But you seem less freaked out and seem like you'd like more if she offered it, but she seems to be the one who is least invested. My advice is: it's casual so don't worry too much and don't try to treat her like a gf OR it isn't in fact casual, based on your emotional investment, and you then admit you want a bit more structure. Less men do what you're doing it seems, but as a woman who has done this and seen many women do it, it is really a waste of time to be in an ambiguous relationship where you do want more, but simply pretend you don't, but you analyze and worry about everything because in your heart you know you wish it was exclusive or the person was as invested. When you deny that, it doesn't change things, it just leads you to an online forum where you continue to analyze this person and second guess things...and that already is a red flag that things aren't as good as they should be. My 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 12, 2013 Author Posted May 12, 2013 I know you said this. So with that knowledge that you aren't serious, it seems like on one hand you aren't, but then want her to meet the parents and all that, which implies it is more. I was simply commenting that if you guys are so casual then why waste copious mental space analyzing her? Why try to get her to meet your family? I hear you...but as sweetkiwi said and I cosign, is that you're saying it's casual but still doing stuff that isn't in fact casual and then she freaks out. But you seem less freaked out and seem like you'd like more if she offered it, but she seems to be the one who is least invested. My advice is: it's casual so don't worry too much and don't try to treat her like a gf OR it isn't in fact casual, based on your emotional investment, and you then admit you want a bit more structure. Less men do what you're doing it seems, but as a woman who has done this and seen many women do it, it is really a waste of time to be in an ambiguous relationship where you do want more, but simply pretend you don't, but you analyze and worry about everything because in your heart you know you wish it was exclusive or the person was as invested. When you deny that, it doesn't change things, it just leads you to an online forum where you continue to analyze this person and second guess things...and that already is a red flag that things aren't as good as they should be. My 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth. I'll certainly think about what you are saying from my part and her's. We both have done things which are not what is usual for a casual situation yet we are both actin in ways that aren't really ...appropriate... for that. Like we'd both like the cake of a more adult, stable situation, with the cake of being free to date others too.
xxoo Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 If m told you this week that she'd thinks you are "the one" and she'd like to be exclusive and serious, how would you feel?
candie13 Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 Man, you either lead or your are being lead. You're being lead here. In order to protect yourself from emotionally unclear situation - one of them in front of you - you should put firm boundaries on your behavior and on your feelings. Allocate separate territories to separate feelings. Meaning if you are INLOVE and SERIOUS with someone you'd introduce them into your life: FRIENDS, FAMILY, FUTURE. If you're NOT INLOVE, you should keep them at arm's length from your life and what's important to you: FRIENDS, FAMILY and FUTURE. Keep them in the bedroom. Out of sight. Mix the two - people you're not serious about with things that matter to you and you'll end up caring for the people you're not serious about... and it's your OWN DOING, your OWN FAULT. Out of respect for a woman whom you WILL BE SERIOUS ABOUT in the future: how will you make her special, if you're already introducing someone who's casual to your closest friends and family? How do you show them they are special? You're inlove with your casual girl and that is the plain truth. That's why you're so tormented. Someone who is inlove requires another person inlove. Anything else is just a lie. That's why all these discussion, these misunderstandings. To make it worse, you're bringing both your families into this MESS. It's a bloody mess, with your blood all over the walls, man. YOU'RE in DENIAL, you're head over heel inlove with "M". So stop lying to yourself and admit that. Admit that it was wrong to meet her family. It was wrong for her to meet your family. It's wrong to bring someone who's casual with you, so close to you and to people you care about. No matter how mature, modern, intellectual you try to be about it, there's just no other way. Learn from this: next time, you shall not allow anyone you're not serious about occupy so much space in your life. If she's casual, she should only belong in your bed, and not at a table, near your mom and dad. In your bed, during the week, not during the weekend, because weekends are priority one for people you care about. On Mondays, when it rains outside and you don't feel like hitting the gym. Casual people rank last, in front of your time with your mates, time with for your hobbies, time with your parents and time with any other people who potentially matter to you. LAST! You're far from that. So just let it go and learn from your error of judgement and error of behavior. 1
MissBee Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Man, you either lead or your are being lead. You're being lead here. In order to protect yourself from emotionally unclear situation - one of them in front of you - you should put firm boundaries on your behavior and on your feelings. Allocate separate territories to separate feelings. Meaning if you are INLOVE and SERIOUS with someone you'd introduce them into your life: FRIENDS, FAMILY, FUTURE. If you're NOT INLOVE, you should keep them at arm's length from your life and what's important to you: FRIENDS, FAMILY and FUTURE. Keep them in the bedroom. Out of sight. Mix the two - people you're not serious about with things that matter to you and you'll end up caring for the people you're not serious about... and it's your OWN DOING, your OWN FAULT. Out of respect for a woman whom you WILL BE SERIOUS ABOUT in the future: how will you make her special, if you're already introducing someone who's casual to your closest friends and family? How do you show them they are special? You're inlove with your casual girl and that is the plain truth. That's why you're so tormented. Someone who is inlove requires another person inlove. Anything else is just a lie. That's why all these discussion, these misunderstandings. To make it worse, you're bringing both your families into this MESS. It's a bloody mess, with your blood all over the walls, man. YOU'RE in DENIAL, you're head over heel inlove with "M". So stop lying to yourself and admit that. Admit that it was wrong to meet her family. It was wrong for her to meet your family. It's wrong to bring someone who's casual with you, so close to you and to people you care about. No matter how mature, modern, intellectual you try to be about it, there's just no other way. Learn from this: next time, you shall not allow anyone you're not serious about occupy so much space in your life. If she's casual, she should only belong in your bed, and not at a table, near your mom and dad. In your bed, during the week, not during the weekend, because weekends are priority one for people you care about. On Mondays, when it rains outside and you don't feel like hitting the gym. Casual people rank last, in front of your time with your mates, time with for your hobbies, time with your parents and time with any other people who potentially matter to you. LAST! You're far from that. So just let it go and learn from your error of judgement and error of behavior. I actually agree with this post A LOT! The stereotype is that it's mostly women who get gungho over a man who sees their relationship only as casual, and women are the ones who usually are in some casual/ambiguous relationship saying they're fine but they actually really care, while the man has his head screwed on straight and is clear in his mind about where she really stands. However, clearly, men can also get caught in this trap. Protecting yourself from emotionally unclear situations is so true, and what I was saying to MrLonely. If you are casual...be casual i.e. don't do other stuff that isn't casual and then still try to act casual. If you feel more, admit it and decide if this situation provides for that. But to simply deny it but clearly be tormented and constantly analyzing this "casual" relationship makes no sense...as you're only fooling yourself and everyone else can see plain as day that it's NOT casual, and you're waay invested or you'd not be constantly making threads about this girl/situation. I have been in real casual and fake casual like the OP...the two are very different. In real casual, I didn't mix things and didn't care much. I find real casual hard to do though for me. However, in fake casual, I accepted less than I wanted while hoping for more and secretly expected him to treat me as a legit gf, and when he didn't, I would be soo hurt. I lied to myself and it was such a waste of time. Your limits and boundaries between casual/serious are also my own personally and what I expect in a man. I DO NOT bring men whom I'm unclear about what we are around my family. Heck, even when we have a label, I don't bring them around until I feel secure that we're serious. Only few men have been afforded that privilege. Anyway MrLonely....I think a big way to solve your dilemmas would be to be honest with yourself and also ask "M" where you two stand and what she would like? I think you're scared to ask because you're afraid she will instantly drop you.....however, reality is, "no pressure" and just pretending to go with the flow to her face, then worrying about it in your mind and asking people online to dissect her mentality, won't get you very far. Not asking her won't change the reality, just prolong it. I'd from today be CLEAR about what's going on. I am speaking from experience as a woman who has in the past been the type to sign up for casual but secretly wanted more and thought if I acted cool about it, and no pressure and so long as I had him around, he would eventually wake up to the reality of my greatness and want to be serious ....it didn't happen and was a disservice to me. Nowadays, I avoid all such situations and demand clarity and if I am unsure, I am cautious and I hold back investing emotionally and doing things that will increase my feelings for them. Edited May 12, 2013 by MissBee
Star Gazer Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 She's as much in a relationship with me as she is with him. It's not exclusive. If all you're going to to is dump on people who multidate, I get it, you don't get it. They are different ways to approach the problem. Remember she did put me in a position to meet her family. Wha? I'm not dumping on multi-dating by asking what I did. Having a girl's parents meet the guy's parents is appropriate only for those in serious, exclusive relationships with each other. Since you're not, it's inappropriate. It seems like you're trying to jockey for position by doing this. Again, inappropriate. 1
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 12, 2013 Author Posted May 12, 2013 Wha? I'm not dumping on multi-dating by asking what I did. Having a girl's parents meet the guy's parents is appropriate only for those in serious, exclusive relationships with each other. Since you're not, it's inappropriate. I actually used to think that, but there are people on this thread who have Said they introduce people they aren't so serious about to their parents. Indicating that M may take the same attitude. It seems like you're trying to jockey for position by doing this. Again, inappropriate. Nah. My parents thought it proper to extend the offer since her parents had spent so much time on energy on us. To us if the shoe were on the other foot not making such an invite would look classless.
Star Gazer Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 I actually used to think that, but there are people on this thread who have Said they introduce people they aren't so serious about to their parents. Indicating that M may take the same attitude. Nah. My parents thought it proper to extend the offer since her parents had spent so much time on energy on us. To us if the shoe were on the other foot not making such an invite would look classless. Having her meet your parents is light years apart from your parents meeting her parents. 1
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 12, 2013 Author Posted May 12, 2013 oHaving her meet your parents is light years apart from your parents meeting her parents. I see. Well that's all you needed to say. If you re read my OP without predjudices you will see that I agree with that. Save it for the engagement party. Thanks. That gets right to the heart of the matter. As I asked in my OP. Let me have you're reads on the situation..... I said, with a bit of a sarcastic edge, I'm sorry and got up to walk away. She said, It's just that the whole thing is inappropriate, it's inappropriate. Upon reflection I am thinking that she picked up on how uncomfortable I was, and more or less agree'd with me. That her "leave me alone" wasn't that I should piss off forever, but that this was just a bit much to deal with. (That and it's midterms.) Not to press for our parents to meet eachother (Which does not bother me to press for at all). Does my read on the situation sound sane? Based on the last two responses the answer is that my read of the situation sounds sane. She picked up on how uncomfortable I was asking, and boy was I uncomfortable. Then reacted honestly out of her own discomfort and noticing mine. For what it's worth, mama wanted to invite them to stay in our house! (They had said that we could stay in theirs though we choose not to). I was able to put a stop to that one. I have to navigate the seas between Hurricane Mama and superstorm M to survive this.
xxoo Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 Does your mother consider this a serious dating relationship? So many mixed messages!
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 12, 2013 Author Posted May 12, 2013 Does your mother consider this a serious dating relationship? So many mixed messages! It may be a message that both our families have gotten based on the way we talk about eachother. I mean her parents told me they haven't been to Chicago in all the time that M's been here and now, suddenly they are coming out after my trip there. :/ I think both sets got the wrong idea.
xxoo Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 Parents do often get the wrong idea. That's one reason it is more important to look at what M says and does than to analyze the behavior of her parents. Sometimes, young adults allow their parents to get the wrong idea because they want to keep another love interest secret.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 Parents do often get the wrong idea. That's one reason it is more important to look at what M says and does than to analyze the behavior of her parents. Sometimes, young adults allow their parents to get the wrong idea because they want to keep another love interest secret. That could be the case though I don't know who it could be. The "Other" guy mentioned in other threads..... has met her sisters when they visted Chicago a while back. It was posted on facebook. Anyway. My read on the overall situation is this. M isn't trying to be tied down by anyone or to anyone. Neither am I really. That said, there is certainly a great deal of emotional content to our ... thing... which could lead some folks to believe it is very serious. All I'm going to do is leave M alone to deal with herself for a while. Meanwhile I need to focus on doing what I need to do to graduate. If she comes around by then she comes around by then. If not then it has been really nice knowing her. 1
clia Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 I don't think you are delusional. Obviously you have some type of relationship with her. However, I get the impression that you put great importance on things that may in reality be no big deal. I will give you one example. In one of your previous threads, you state that you "have made the trip to her home town with her, met her family". While this is true, the reality (from what I understand) is that you were on a trip with a bunch of people, including her, that happened to be to her hometown, and you, along with a bunch of other people, had dinner with her parents. This is a far cry from what you insinuate, which is that you and she went on a trip together to her hometown to meet her parents. I don't find it all that mind blowing that her parents had dinner with you all and wanted to meet her fellow students given that she was in town. I can easily picture a scenario in my mind where you sat down next to her parents as opposed to the other way around, and because you hit it off or they knew anything about you you started thinking more was there than actually was. It just doesn't seem like any grand scheme orchestrated by her for you to meet her parents. It just feels like a normal thing to do since she was in town. Obviously you are the one who was there, so you know more than I do, though. But from where I'm sitting, you've got a girl who was purposely kissing another guy in front of you and has told you to leave her alone. That doesn't sound like a girl who would be raving to her family about you in terms of relationship or boyfriend material. 2
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 Clia You have a very legitimate point of view which I can see someone would have based on my writings. However, I have also explained how her family acted towards me on that trip and at that dinner. It was like they practically ignored everyone else there and talked to me. I guess you would have to have been there to get where I'm coming from. Just please trust that I have no motivation to lie to you or to myself. As for her kissing that other guy, as I have explained many times we don't have an exclusive relationship. I talk to and spend time with other girls too. As for her telling me to leave her alone. In a week or two she will be all up in my face again. I'm sure you have had a relationship experience where someone wanted you around when you weren't around, then once they had you didn't want you so much anymore. People who study such things call it a push-pull relationship dynamic. If you have never experienced that then I envy you.
Star Gazer Posted May 13, 2013 Posted May 13, 2013 In order to have a push-pull relationship dynamic, you have to have a relationship. I agree with Clia on all other counts. You're insinuating everything is a bigger deal and more serious than it is. Why?? Because that's the way you want it to be. You may be seeing other girls (not sure I believe that, though), but you're not starting thread after thread about them. You're starting thread after thread about this girl, and having your parents meet her parents, which to 99.9% of te population is a pretty big deal (many parents don't meet until after a couple is engaged!). If you're dating others, you're clearly just going through the motions, hoping this one will want to be serious with you. Unfortunately, all signs point to that never happening.
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 13, 2013 Author Posted May 13, 2013 SG, Let me spell it out for you. ... I am really trying to be a gentleman about it but let me make it plainer. We have had more than friendly physical relations, you understand my meaning? Is that relationship enough for you? I know it sounds strange given that M at one point after that was all "uncomfortable" with being hugged in public by me. Then don't forget, I'm not the most socially acceptable guy now am I? (Being gender non conforming, and out as a bisexual and all that) M also was there for me when my family had to deal with a serious medical issue. I can go on. Between the physical and emotional intimacy what is this if not some species of relationship? The reason I don't talk about the other ladies, SG, is that I don't have much to say about them. It is simply not involved enough to have a issue worthy of asking for advice. Three other graduate students. They simply aren't as close to me, or as dear to me, as M has been. Am I really the only one here who has been in a complicated situation like this before?
Author Mrlonelyone Posted May 15, 2013 Author Posted May 15, 2013 An update which will clarify things. M and I have been frosty today. I totally ignored her today even as I interacted with others and others interacted with me. Freely interacting with , people who know the whole situation as they have watched it germinate start to bloom and stunt... the start again. She still has interest as she spent time finding reasons to stare at me and always had her eyes on me when she thought I could not see. (my but computer screens are reflective). I think we'll at least be ok with eachother again.
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