Do I expect too much?

[Sweetnothing]

So I broke up with my boyfriend a while ago because he just did not put in any effort whatsoever. In the almost 2 years we were together he took me out to dinner TWICE. He was selfish and unsupportive and I just couldn't take it anymore. I still miss him, but I've made a firm decision to hold out for something better.

 

Now I'm left with these irrational fears that I'm not going to ever find a guy who will meet my needs. As far as neediness goes I think I'm at a good middle-ground where I'm pretty self assured for the most part, but I do need a man who will go out of his way for me on occasion to make me feel like he cares. I don't need constant reassurance, but kind gestures mean a lot to me.

 

I want a guy who will call me to see how my day's going once in a while, bring over my favorite wine for no special reason, say sweet things out of nowhere, and actually make me feel like he's afraid to lose me, but is also independent and has his own life, and his "guys nights", hobbies, etc.

 

I don't want someone to drop their whole life for me and be completely clingy and obsessed with our relationship and I'm tired of dating guys who act so distant that I have to wonder if they even care at all!

 

Is that too much to ask?

[TaraMaiden]

What you 'need' is to get out of the mind-set that you 'need' a man at all.

 

And let me immediately add - if you were a man posting this, I would say the same.

 

personal validation is not dependent on having a SO in our lives.

What you have to strive for, is to be absolutely confident and self-assured in your 'single-person' status.

Comfortable, relaxed and independent.

 

Alone - should never mean 'lonely'.

Cultivate a healthy social life where you are good at keeping secrets when people confide in you.

 

Imagine a person you really look up to - then 'be' that person....

 

You'd be amazed at how many guys 'want some of that' when you come over as single, comfortable in your own skin, and with a true and genuine confidence in who you are and what you have achieved.

 

Establish yourself as a person with no 'needs'.

 

And trust me, you will fly this.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Honest answer...from my perspective...

 

First off, don't base your expectations and hold onto fears of how you spent those two years of your relationship with your ex with. Rest assured you can definitely, definitely do better than that.

 

I could probably spend hours talking with you about it and explaining to you about why this or that happened and why he was this way or that and didn't ever do the things you needed but the most important thing you take away from this is learning from your mistakes, because you can only control what you do and what role you play, not what other people do.

 

Don't allow someone to treat you that way, simply do not accept the treatment you don't like...that's the only fear you should have about ending up in that kind of a situation again. Remember that you don't have to be in any relationship you don't want to be in, build up your self-esteem and self-respect so that you walk away before you let yourself go through that again. That's the most important thing, or you'll end up settling for crumbs again, no matter how you feel or what you say now...you've got to act on it for it to count.

 

In order for men to value you, you have to value yourself. Men respond to that, if they see a woman acting like a doormat, they wipe their feet on you...it's that simple, you've got to be able to prevent that for yourself. The biggest problem with women is they cry wolf and say they won't tolerate that or take it, and then they're sitting right there, nothing makes a man lose respect for a woman faster, because then he's in control, you've given him the power to, you're not a slave, just a slave to your own emotions.

 

But be proud of yourself for moving on, that takes courage and strength. Now refine yourself as a woman, go into the dating world feeling good about yourself and being confident in who you are and how you expect to be treated, as long as you know how to communicate that and express it, you'd be surprised the hoops men jump through for you...I've known women that make men look like they're in the circus (not that you should abuse that power, but you seem far from that).

 

You need to carry a short leash, and when it's not there or up to your standards...move on. Don't sit there and try to make a guy do this or that or hope that he will, take it at face value and move on. As long as you're being reasonable and not crazy with your standards getting high and mighty like some women do, then use your own judgment and intuition.

 

Learn to speak up and communicate as well, tell men what you aren't going to tolerate or you don't like...men like a little fire in a woman, and you might find yourself liking that too. You've got nothing to lose, you need to change your behavior or you'll be like many women, kind of just sitting there whining about it but not having the ovaries to speak up for yourself, don't be passive then just blame the man...do your part too.

 

I always hear the same thing from women "why can't it just be simple!"...because it's not simple! for most people anyway, so learn to adapt or you may be saying that for a long time while you repeat the same stupid mistakes with men...because I can assure you, many men will take advantage of you if you let them and the good ones come off quite charming.

[Sweetnothing]

What you 'need' is to get out of the mind-set that you 'need' a man at all.

 

And let me immediately add - if you were a man posting this, I would say the same.

 

personal validation is not dependent on having a SO in our lives.

What you have to strive for, is to be absolutely confident and self-assured in your 'single-person' status.

Comfortable, relaxed and independent.

 

Alone - should never mean 'lonely'.

Cultivate a healthy social life where you are good at keeping secrets when people confide in you.

 

Imagine a person you really look up to - then 'be' that person....

 

You'd be amazed at how many guys 'want some of that' when you come over as single, comfortable in your own skin, and with a true and genuine confidence in who you are and what you have achieved.

 

Establish yourself as a person with no 'needs'.

 

And trust me, you will fly this.

 

I don't feel like I NEED a man. Maybe I worded my post the wrong way. I've been single for a few weeks now and I am definitely NOT looking! I just dwell on the fear from time to time that "all men are the same".

 

I get what you're saying though and you're totally right. I have self respect but I am guilty of bending too far when it comes to relationships and I wind up with men who are very rigid. I'm going to stay single for a while and focus even more on my work and my friends. I'd rather have no relationship than a crappy one!

[Sweetnothing]

Honest answer...from my perspective...

 

First off, don't base your expectations and hold onto fears of how you spent those two years of your relationship with your ex with. Rest assured you can definitely, definitely do better than that.

 

I could probably spend hours talking with you about it and explaining to you about why this or that happened and why he was this way or that and didn't ever do the things you needed but the most important thing you take away from this is learning from your mistakes, because you can only control what you do and what role you play, not what other people do.

 

Don't allow someone to treat you that way, simply do not accept the treatment you don't like...that's the only fear you should have about ending up in that kind of a situation again. Remember that you don't have to be in any relationship you don't want to be in, build up your self-esteem and self-respect so that you walk away before you let yourself go through that again. That's the most important thing, or you'll end up settling for crumbs again, no matter how you feel or what you say now...you've got to act on it for it to count.

 

In order for men to value you, you have to value yourself. Men respond to that, if they see a woman acting like a doormat, they wipe their feet on you...it's that simple, you've got to be able to prevent that for yourself. The biggest problem with women is they cry wolf and say they won't tolerate that or take it, and then they're sitting right there, nothing makes a man lose respect for a woman faster, because then he's in control, you've given him the power to, you're not a slave, just a slave to your own emotions.

 

But be proud of yourself for moving on, that takes courage and strength. Now refine yourself as a woman, go into the dating world feeling good about yourself and being confident in who you are and how you expect to be treated, as long as you know how to communicate that and express it, you'd be surprised the hoops men jump through for you...I've known women that make men look like they're in the circus (not that you should abuse that power, but you seem far from that).

 

You need to carry a short leash, and when it's not there or up to your standards...move on. Don't sit there and try to make a guy do this or that or hope that he will, take it at face value and move on. As long as you're being reasonable and not crazy with your standards getting high and mighty like some women do, then use your own judgment and intuition.

 

Learn to speak up and communicate as well, tell men what you aren't going to tolerate or you don't like...men like a little fire in a woman, and you might find yourself liking that too. You've got nothing to lose, you need to change your behavior or you'll be like many women, kind of just sitting there whining about it but not having the ovaries to speak up for yourself, don't be passive then just blame the man...do your part too.

 

I always hear the same thing from women "why can't it just be simple!"...because it's not simple! for most people anyway, so learn to adapt or you may be saying that for a long time while you repeat the same stupid mistakes with men...because I can assure you, many men will take advantage of you if you let them and the good ones come off quite charming.

 

I'm definitely guilty of the whole "cry wolf" scenario that you brought up. I always expect men to just feel bad when they do something thoughtless or hurtful but I'm learning that they don't feel bad unless there's a direct consequence. I need to learn to think like a man. Thank you for your perspective you definitely brought up some valid points.

[Ed the 3rd]

No not really. Finding someone who will actually give a damn and take you out to dinner at least 3 times every 2 years should be child's play.

[mm4184]

Honest answer...from my perspective...

 

Don't allow someone to treat you that way, simply do not accept the treatment you don't like...that's the only fear you should have about ending up in that kind of a situation again. Remember that you don't have to be in any relationship you don't want to be in, build up your self-esteem and self-respect so that you walk away before you let yourself go through that again. That's the most important thing, or you'll end up settling for crumbs again, no matter how you feel or what you say now...you've got to act on it for it to count.

 

In order for men to value you, you have to value yourself. Men respond to that, if they see a woman acting like a doormat, they wipe their feet on you...it's that simple, you've got to be able to prevent that for yourself. The biggest problem with women is they cry wolf and say they won't tolerate that or take it, and then they're sitting right there, nothing makes a man lose respect for a woman faster, because then he's in control, you've given him the power to, you're not a slave, just a slave to your own emotions.

 

But be proud of yourself for moving on, that takes courage and strength. Now refine yourself as a woman, go into the dating world feeling good about yourself and being confident in who you are and how you expect to be treated, as long as you know how to communicate that and express it, you'd be surprised the hoops men jump through for you...I've known women that make men look like they're in the circus (not that you should abuse that power, but you seem far from that).

 

You need to carry a short leash, and when it's not there or up to your standards...move on. Don't sit there and try to make a guy do this or that or hope that he will, take it at face value and move on. As long as you're being reasonable and not crazy with your standards getting high and mighty like some women do, then use your own judgment and intuition.

 

Learn to speak up and communicate as well, tell men what you aren't going to tolerate or you don't like...men like a little fire in a woman, and you might find yourself liking that too. You've got nothing to lose, you need to change your behavior or you'll be like many women, kind of just sitting there whining about it but not having the ovaries to speak up for yourself, don't be passive then just blame the man...do your part too.

 

I always hear the same thing from women "why can't it just be simple!"...because it's not simple! for most people anyway, so learn to adapt or you may be saying that for a long time while you repeat the same stupid mistakes with men...because I can assure you, many men will take advantage of you if you let them and the good ones come off quite charming.

 

So I broke up with my boyfriend a while ago because he just did not put in any effort whatsoever. In the almost 2 years we were together he took me out to dinner TWICE. He was selfish and unsupportive and I just couldn't take it anymore. I still miss him, but I've made a firm decision to hold out for something better.

 

Now I'm left with these irrational fears that I'm not going to ever find a guy who will meet my needs. As far as neediness goes I think I'm at a good middle-ground where I'm pretty self assured for the most part, but I do need a man who will go out of his way for me on occasion to make me feel like he cares. I don't need constant reassurance, but kind gestures mean a lot to me.

 

I want a guy who will call me to see how my day's going once in a while, bring over my favorite wine for no special reason, say sweet things out of nowhere, and actually make me feel like he's afraid to lose me, but is also independent and has his own life, and his "guys nights", hobbies, etc.

 

I don't want someone to drop their whole life for me and be completely clingy and obsessed with our relationship and I'm tired of dating guys who act so distant that I have to wonder if they even care at all!

 

Is that too much to ask?

 

I REALLY love your post Ninja. It brings light to my situation as well but it's if us women can actually get past the dwelling and heartache of the issues then it would be easier to follow your advice. When we overanalyze and overthink things, we then obsess and want everything in our control. (At least with me) Then we get to a place where we can't even focus on bettering ourselves, being confident, because we're fixated on the situation we want to figure out. (I just posted my ISSUE) So how do we get to a place where we can actually not think about the man or at least not think about him as a priority anymore and work on ourselves? Because that's where I'm stuck. I cry and have anxiety because I don't know how to "fix" the situation I'm in which I know it's not up to me- ultimately if someone wants to be with you, they will make sure they do all they can to keep you around and do so.

 

And Sweetnothing, I feel for you! This guy I'm dating has taken me out on half ass dates. But 2 dates in your whole relationship is NOT ACCEPTABLE. That is just plain ridiculous. How did he get you to be his girlfriend in the first place! I also share your fears that there will be no good guys anymore. And I hate the thought of putting ourselves out there- approaching guys, going on dating websites, to meet potentials and just keep getting let down. I know that's life, but how do we make it fun for us and not stressful when we have this notion of this man that should sweep us off our feet, say good morning and good night and just call to hear your voice, surprise you for nothing, etc. Where do we even find quality men now? I know they're out there, but I get tired even just thinking of having to go out and do so. I go out at night of course when I feel like it, but when people say "don't look, it will come" what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Yes, enjoy life and go out with friends. But some of our clock's are ticking and we are not getting any younger. It doesn't help when all your friends are getting married and having kids either! That's me ranting. I really hope things work out for you!

[crude]

If we reversed the genders, this would be considered an ideal relationship. The woman doesn't take the man out, expects him to do little things for her, big things for her, while she sits silently in judgement. One-sided relationships are the norm, but it's usually the woman who contributes little. Now you know what it's like to be a man who cares for a woman who does nothing in the relationship, because she wants to be wooed like the goddess she thinks she is.

[ChessPieceFace]

OP, if you want to improve yourself and question your behaviors, that's good. Look into researching feminism and its pitfalls. Listen to men's rights advocates and consider their position. Work on a better perspective on what's fair and equitable for both genders to expect in modern society. If you do, you'll be far ahead of most women and setting yourself up for a happy relationship, where you have realistic expectations both of yourself and your partner.

 

As far as the things you mentioned -- your ex sounded like he didn't care much, so I think you made the right call. It's good that you have the humility to question it though.

[Sweetnothing]

I REALLY love your post Ninja. It brings light to my situation as well but it's if us women can actually get past the dwelling and heartache of the issues then it would be easier to follow your advice. When we overanalyze and overthink things, we then obsess and want everything in our control. (At least with me) Then we get to a place where we can't even focus on bettering ourselves, being confident, because we're fixated on the situation we want to figure out. (I just posted my ISSUE) So how do we get to a place where we can actually not think about the man or at least not think about him as a priority anymore and work on ourselves? Because that's where I'm stuck. I cry and have anxiety because I don't know how to "fix" the situation I'm in which I know it's not up to me- ultimately if someone wants to be with you, they will make sure they do all they can to keep you around and do so.

 

And Sweetnothing, I feel for you! This guy I'm dating has taken me out on half ass dates. But 2 dates in your whole relationship is NOT ACCEPTABLE. That is just plain ridiculous. How did he get you to be his girlfriend in the first place! I also share your fears that there will be no good guys anymore. And I hate the thought of putting ourselves out there- approaching guys, going on dating websites, to meet potentials and just keep getting let down. I know that's life, but how do we make it fun for us and not stressful when we have this notion of this man that should sweep us off our feet, say good morning and good night and just call to hear your voice, surprise you for nothing, etc. Where do we even find quality men now? I know they're out there, but I get tired even just thinking of having to go out and do so. I go out at night of course when I feel like it, but when people say "don't look, it will come" what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Yes, enjoy life and go out with friends. But some of our clock's are ticking and we are not getting any younger. It doesn't help when all your friends are getting married and having kids either! That's me ranting. I really hope things work out for you!

 

I got to a point where I could stop focusing on my ex after I wrote out a LONG list of his habits that hurt me and I kept re-reading it several times a day and adding on to the list when I thought of something else. Seeing the cold hard evidence that he was NOT treating me right took away any and all desire to fix the situation. It was like breaking an addiction. My past attempts to detach myself from him failed because a day or two after not seeing him I would forget the bad things (I'm terrible at holding grudges) and remember all the times he made me smile. When we were together, I was so enamored by his intelligence, wit, charm, and good looks that I saw past everything else. He truly was the most inconsiderate and selfish guy I have ever dated. He would show up hours late with no explanation or apology. He was stubborn and inflexible when it came to making plans. He never cared if I was having a bad day or try to console me if I was upset. In fact, he even would leave to hang out with his friends if I was too upset or tired to go out! He would invite me, but if I was stressed about something he'd pretty much say "whatever see you later" and go out. I always spent WAY more on gifts for his birthday, Christmas, valentines day, and our anniversary than he ever spent on me. Not that money is a big deal to me (if it was I would have never dated him in the first place) but it seemed like he would always rather spend money on himself whereas I was extremely generous throughout our relationship. It just felt like he didn't WANT to make me happy. He never tried to hurt me, he was indifferent. I tried talking to him at least 20 times about why I was upset and felt neglected and every time we talked he would agree and promise to change, but he never changed.

 

I keep a copy of the list in my purse and read it everyday and it has been the most helpful thing in this whole process. Throughout our relationship I hoped he would one day change, but reading the list over and over serves as a strong reminder that he won't and I've given up on my fantasy of him suddenly becoming "the one". He has not contacted me since we broke up and I am slowly becoming ok with that.

 

As for future relationships, I have to repeatedly remind myself not to worry even though I can't help it sometimes. There are billions of men in the world and there have to be at least a handful of them who would appreciate me and care for me. Plus, as someone else on this thread said if we improve ourselves and become more independent, guys will treat us with more respect. We just need to remind ourselves that we are worthy of respect and don't accept any less.

[Sweetnothing]

If we reversed the genders, this would be considered an ideal relationship. The woman doesn't take the man out, expects him to do little things for her, big things for her, while she sits silently in judgement. One-sided relationships are the norm, but it's usually the woman who contributes little. Now you know what it's like to be a man who cares for a woman who does nothing in the relationship, because she wants to be wooed like the goddess she thinks she is.

Actually I DID take him out. I don't expect a guy to bend over backwards for me nor do I want that. I would be very lucky to have a guy treat me the way I treated my ex.

[Sweetnothing]

OP, if you want to improve yourself and question your behaviors, that's good. Look into researching feminism and its pitfalls. Listen to men's rights advocates and consider their position. Work on a better perspective on what's fair and equitable for both genders to expect in modern society. If you do, you'll be far ahead of most women and setting yourself up for a happy relationship, where you have realistic expectations both of yourself and your partner.

 

As far as the things you mentioned -- your ex sounded like he didn't care much, so I think you made the right call. It's good that you have the humility to question it though.

I don't really believe in gender roles in relationships. I took my ex on dates, surprised him with things, complimented him, etc. To be completely honest an ideal relationship for me would be a totally equal one. I'm not whining that my ex never took me out on dates because I believe "that's what men should do". I'm upset because I realized he had no desire to make me happy when I regularly went out of my way to make HIM happy. I realize now how pathetic and desperate I was. If I do meet a nice guy some day I certainly won't force society's standards for a boyfriend on him so no worries there

 

I just used the dates as an example of how little effort he put into the relationship.

[Woohoo]

As a piece of productive advice. The "rules" of a relationship are set early on. If a man isn't doing what you want, DEMAND otherwise. Once you are both used to how the relationship works, that is how it will be.

 

And the issue of how much space is especially difficult because early on both parties will be nervous.

[hppr]

Is that too much to ask?

 

No it's not you just have to know how to look for it. The thing I have learned is that those sorts of features don't often come in the kind of package you are looking for. Also your ex's qualities that bugged you are probably what attracted you to him in the first place. So what you need to do is find a guy who doesn't have those same qualities, break the pattern, otherwise you'll be back here in a year or two wondering why the current one is just as self-centered as the last one.

[MikeyBe]

I doubt anyone's going to read your post OP and tell you you're expecting too much but I suspect you already knew that because you sound like a clever gal.

 

I agree with what hppr is saying. Generally in life we get what we seek out. You were with your ex for over 2 years for a reason and you normally date guys that are distant for a reason. Thinking that most men are like this is the wrong train of thought as is thinking that finding a guy that simply appreciates you is as rare as a handful out of billions.

 

So you're going to have to break this pattern in some way so you don't repeat it.

 

 

 

I keep a copy of the list in my purse and read it everyday and it has been the most helpful thing in this whole process.

Ack, sounds like a red flag! You don't need it and IMO you never did. Throw that thing in the garbage.

[Sweetnothing]

 

Ack, sounds like a red flag! You don't need it and IMO you never did. Throw that thing in the garbage.

Ummm...why not? If I don't remind myself why I dumped my ex I start missing him and if I miss him too much I'll want to reconcile and that would be the worst idea.

[MikeyBe]

Ummm...why not? If I don't remind myself why I dumped my ex I start missing him and if I miss him too much I'll want to reconcile and that would be the worst idea.

Its not helping you get over him, its helping you cling to him. You need to get to the point where you don't have to write a list to tell yourself what you already know. Getting rid of it will be symbolic of you breaking this pattern of the guys you normally date.

 

What I'm prying at, like what hppr said earlier, is that you seem actively seek out these types of men for whatever reason. So instead of asking if there are guys out there that will appreciate you in a relationship you should be asking why you're not interested in that kind of man but the opposite.