curlygirl40 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Hello all! I had a very interesting discussion with a girlfriend of mine about a guy I'm dating casually. She says to me 'He's contacting you all the time, you're seeing each other on a regular basis, you have fun together, you're having sex, what is a relationship if it's not those things?'. I had to think about it for a bit. She has a point on the one hand. But yet I know it's not a relationship nor will ever be. It just doesn't have the 'feel' of heading in that direction. So I got to thinking about why that is, what is the difference when you're going through the motions but not really going there? It can be confusing at first glance because she's right about all of those things. He takes me out to dinner, to concerts, he talks about things we can do in the future, he texts me every single day. He initiates the contact and the dates 100% of the time. Last night he asked me if I was busy on Sunday, he wants to come down here (he lives just over an hour north of me) and take me out to lunch. He's incredibly sweet to me, a real gentleman when we're out. Holding doors, waits for me to order, things like that. So I thought about her question and this is what I came up with. The difference, to me, between dating someone and hoping it will turn into a relationship and casual dating is the fact that it doesn't feel like you're growing anything. It doesn't feel like we're building anything together. It doesn't feel like feelings are involved or will get involved. I don't feel like I will ever meet his family, his friends, his kids, be his plus 1 to a wedding. At this point feelings aren't involved, we're just having fun. We're both busy in our jobs right now, so it's just nice to have someone to go out with when you have a free evening. The sex is amazing. We laugh and joke a lot. We have a lot of inside jokes and have the same sense of humor. It's like we're both enjoying it for what it is but not worrying about what it's not. So I would love to hear your take on casual dating. What is the difference to you between casual dating (I'm not talking about casual sex, I'm talking about dating) and dating someone that you're hoping to eventually be in a relationship with? I'm not looking for advice on what I'm doing with this guy or where it's going, I'm looking for your opinion or your experiences on casual dating. Thanks!!!
BluEyeL Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Casual dating, the way you described it (because sex is involved, it is different than casual dating i.e. just going out together) is a friends with benefits thing. You are friends, joke, talk, go out to spend time together, AND have sex. You are also free to date others. Dating with the purpose of building a long term relationship is just that, involves long term plans and it is monogamous. But I don't think it's true that "feelings will never be involved". It's bound to happen, that's why it's a difficult thing to go into. 3
Author curlygirl40 Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 I agree about the feelings thing. I feel like it's playing russian roulette with your emotions because I just don't know how long you can go on without someone 'catching feelings'. Will let you know. lol 1
BluEyeL Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Well, also LTRs fail too, so it's always a roulette, but with the FWB is a sure thing, or higher chance that you'll get hurt. Usually the female, unfortunately.
Cutiepie1976 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 I know it's not a relationship nor will ever be. It just doesn't have the 'feel' of heading in that direction. This is how I distinguish between someone I go out on dates with on a casual basis and someone I am actually dating. There are other tell-tale signs as a result. Since there is no longevity expected of the arrangement, I don't care about age. (I attract mostly guys who are younger than me IRL. I'll date them but I'm not interested in a relationship with someone significantly younger than myself.) I don't care whether he wants kids or his other relationship goals, meeting family or friends, values, etc. I have no expectation of anything other than the date we are on. I also don't have sex with men I date casually, so that would be another difference. But the big internal tip-off for me are early discussions. If there is relationship potential, we both spend a chunk of our initial conversations discussing what we hope for out of dating. If it's casual, conversions are all "fluff" and no substance if you will. Nothing about what we might ultimately want. I take my lead from the guy. He decides where initial conversations go. That has always worked well for me. Guys who are serious are direct IME about what they want and about not wasting time with women who don't share their relationship goals. curlygirl, I mean no offense, but what you're describing is a friends with benefits arrangement. You have a friendly relationship that includes casual sex as part of the arrangement.
outsidethebox Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 OP, what you describe is one of the better relationships I've seen described here in quit awhile. Not sure what different is supposed to happen to be this real relationship you speak of. 1
Author curlygirl40 Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 OP, what you describe is one of the better relationships I've seen described here in quit awhile. Not sure what different is supposed to happen to be this real relationship you speak of. Well, I guess this was the point my friend was trying to make. Like 'what is a relationship if it's not those things you describe?'. And like BluEyeL said, there's no guarantee you won't end up heartbroken in a 'real' relationship either. And no, I'm not offended by the term FWB. I think that's overused for situations where people are just fbuddies though and I don't feel like it's that. cutiepie thanks for your input! I agree with a lot of what you said. For me, I think I was just tired of dating and looking for a relationship. I connect with so few and I really connect with him so part of me just said 'f it'. I have my eyes wide open though. I also feel like I have a little bit of work to do before I get into a relationship. I thought I was ready but I'm starting to wonder about that. I've recently bought a handful of meditation books and plan on spending some time this summer trying to quiet my mind and put myself back out there this fall. Thanks for your input!! 2
KungFuJoe Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 It's just like you said. You're dating someone...going out, having sex, having fun...but you know it's not going anywhere. I think when it's MORE than just casual, there is a natural progression. You date, you become exclusive, you say "I love you", you move in together, you get married, etc. The time frame obviously varies, but the person you're with has all the qualities you desire and you don't feel a need to be with anyone else. I was with a girl for a year...and I use the term loosely because we were so on and off, I really don't recall if it was a year, 6 months, or 18 months. We called each other bf and gf at one point, but there just was no "progression". The sex was amazing though, but we just did not get along. You could even say we didn't even really like each other all that much. I did end up sleeping with a couple other women while I was seeing her and I would be surprised if she wasn't doing the same. And nothing was spoken or expected of it. I stopped seeing her when I ended up with someone else who I was more serious about. 1
pteromom Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 What you said about growth is part of it. The other part is integration of your lives. You can be seeing someone, sleeping with them, calling them regularly, but if your time with them is still something completely separate from the rest of your life, then I would definitely categorize it as "casual". 3
BluEyeL Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Your situation seems to be more than the fbuddy, because you go out on dates and have a connection, but less than a relationship. I think it could evolve into one though, but I'm a little worried about you. You are already exclusive, I think your heart is already into it.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 Casual dating is just seeing someone casually, which includes sex, going out, the normal human things...without it progressing into anything long-term. And this experience can be drastically different depending on the man. Dating would be more serious, dating someone with the potential to turn into a long-term relationship. You obviously can't just directly jump into a relationship (in theory) from the first date, so whether you date for one day or 3 or 4 weeks before entering a relationship would have been progressive. I can see how many women would be confused by his behavior by the way he treats you from a woman's point of view. To me, from my perspective, experience and knowledge of men, is that how they treat you can have nothing at all to do with what potential they see in you, it just merely means they are either that way or feel like that's what they need to do in order to keep you happy/satisfied with the current arrangement. I personally treat women with respect, I am polite, considerate and unfortunately this seems to be an abnormality in the dating world often times...however I wouldn't be doing that specifically for you, that's just the way I am because that's the way I wish to treat someone...I think confident men don't worry about trying to please someone as much as they are about living up to their own standards that they set within themselves, regardless of outside influence or what's going on as the "norm" in society. So to me, how this man treats you alone can have nothing to do with his intentions towards being in a relationship, there is still a drastic difference. That's an entirely separate thing for men, that's an emotional, chemistry and compatibility thing, and that's something a man doesn't need if he's just casually dating someone, it's just FWB/casual dating situation really...FWB would be only having sex together mostly, doesn't mean you are restricted from going outside of the house though. The other things you mention to at least me are just things that you merely click on together... Amazing sex - some men are just good lovers Affectionate - some men are just affectionate Laugh and joke a lot - sometimes a man is just funny, and you share the same humor Takes you out to dinner/concerts - a man needs a companion too, he's got to take someone out if he does not wish to do it alone Does this equal relationship material for a man? not by any means. There's a whole other criteria for a woman to have that potential, so he may be casually dating you without even the expectation or possibility of ever being in a relationship with you, that could just be very well decided and never changed. So you are being wiser than your friend, because although he may giving you the "signs" in a woman's interpretation that you're already in a relationship, you already know you are just going to be casually dating and that'll be the extent of it.......right? What is confusing to men I think is how their actions are interpreted as this or that, without their verification or validation of that intent. A man doesn't need to do or say anything to justify anything, the woman will merely interpret his behavior and actions and determine what his interest level is....which unfortunately is quite a flawed system, you need to be able to communicate with men...unfortunately women are just fearful of jeopardizing the potential of the situation by pressuring for commitment or exclusivity at any time, so they just merely leave it in the hands of the man...which is absolutely the best thing you can do for a man who merely wants to casually date you, it's not that your "serious conversation" scares men away, it merely expedites the outcome that was already determined in this man's mind. 1
Author curlygirl40 Posted May 11, 2013 Author Posted May 11, 2013 Blu for some reason my heart isn't in it, and I'm not sure why. It's not typical for me. I'm breaking all of my rules and I just don't care at this point. BUT having said that, I'm not fooling myself. I know that at some point feelings will most likely get involved and I'll have to force myself to walk away. I know that and I know the longer I let it go on the more likely that will happen. I'm o.k with that. I actually have something on the back burner, I will PM you. so maybe you won't worry so much about me. lol Another friend asked me if I was catching feelings for him and at this point, honestly, no. And for some reason I think it's simply because I know that it's not going to go anywhere so I'm able to kind of put it in a neat little box and label it and not expect anything else. I'm not sure how I'm able to do that but I am. He's a great guy. When he's ready for a relationship, whoever the girl is that he's with is going to be one lucky girl. He's newly divorced, owns his own company and has 2 young kids. He coaches their soccer and baseball teams, he attends his daughter's dance competitions and takes her shopping, he takes his son fishing in some sort of fishing derby they joined, he works into the evening sometimes. He's so worried about how his kids are handling the divorce so it seems like he's thrown himself into being the best dad he can be. Which is very attractive to me actually. When I go to his house, it's totally a family home. His kids' artwork is on the walls, his school work is on the fridge, their little shoes are by the door. My take on this is between his business and the kids he just doesn't feel he has the time. I get that. But I also think that we only have so much control over our basic need for contact from the opposite sex. I think even if you don't have time for it, even if you're not ready for it, you will seek it out because you will want it in your life. Even if it's on a casual basis. Where people get themselves in trouble, I think, is expectations. I think a lot of women (and I'm sure some men) hear a guy say 'I don't want a relationship' but yet when the guy acts like this guy is acting they think 'well, when he gets to see how awesome I am, that I'm a good cook, that I'm going to treat him well, he'll change his mind'. Or they see that even though the guy says he doesn't want a relationship, the fact that he's taking them out on dates confuses the issue for them so they listen to his actions more than his words. I give A LOT of girls advice on this board with just that reasoning. When he says it, listen to him. Doesn't matter that he's treating you nicely, that he calls you, that he takes you to dinner. If he says he's not ready, he's not ready. Ninja- I agree completely with a lot of what you wrote. And, like you mentioned, I think this guy is just a gentleman and he treats me well because that's how he is, how he was raised, etc. it has nothing to do with how he feels about me. Agreed. Sometimes cake is just cake. Period. I'm not reading into his behavior, I'm not expecting a different outcome, I'm not hoping for more. I'm just enjoying exactly what it is. A great guy who I love spending time with who makes me laugh, and who is incredible in bed (and extremely good to me in bed! Holy cow! lol). It's good. I love hearing all of your thoughts on this topic though, as my friends and I seem to debate it often. 1
outsidethebox Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 I don't agree. What's this whole other criteria, and what is this guy not doing that would verify or validate it? I completely don't understand this mysterious missing thing that no one can describe.
Author curlygirl40 Posted May 11, 2013 Author Posted May 11, 2013 I don't agree. What's this whole other criteria, and what is this guy not doing that would verify or validate it? I completely don't understand this mysterious missing thing that no one can describe. Well I think it's hard to describe for a handful of reasons. For one, it's probably different for every person. Like many of the posters here have tried to describe, it's like a feeling. A feeling that you're building something, growing towards each other, can see yourself blending your lives together in the future, have feelings for each other, see yourself in the other person's life for a long time to come, have goals that you're working towards together. Moving in, meeting family, things like that. When those things are missing, you're just dating but not dating to the point where it could turn into a committed relationship. I think sometimes people do this because they are not ready for a serious relationship and the time that takes to really grow a relationship, sometimes people are scared, sometimes they like you enough to date you but can't see themselves with you in the future (like KungFuJoe mentioned with his girl), and other reasons like that. So even though on the outset it can look like a relationship, like you could check things off of a list like each other, check attracted to each other, check talk or text daily, check go out on dates, check plan future dates, check sexually compatible, check it doesn't mean it's going to grow into anything more than what it is. And if it never will and one party wants that in their life then you're just not compatible and at some point the person who wants more will need to move on.
outsidethebox Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 I think the only thing more you can do is get engaged.
Author curlygirl40 Posted May 11, 2013 Author Posted May 11, 2013 I'll mention that the next time I see him. LOL You're right, it is the next logical step after all. 1
BluEyeL Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 Curly, glad that you have your eyes wide open. And it all seems so good, that I'm almost envious. OK, not almost, I am envious. 1
Cutiepie1976 Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 Sometimes we don't need or want something serious, as is the case for both of you here. Sounds as if you needed a bit of a breather from the serious dating experiment. When you're ready, you'll take the plunge again. In the meanwhile, have fun...meditate...recenter and refocus. 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Ninja- I agree completely with a lot of what you wrote. And, like you mentioned, I think this guy is just a gentleman and he treats me well because that's how he is, how he was raised, etc. it has nothing to do with how he feels about me. Agreed. Sometimes cake is just cake. Period. I'm not reading into his behavior, I'm not expecting a different outcome, I'm not hoping for more. I'm just enjoying exactly what it is. A great guy who I love spending time with who makes me laugh, and who is incredible in bed (and extremely good to me in bed! Holy cow! lol). It's good. I love hearing all of your thoughts on this topic though, as my friends and I seem to debate it often. Oh I know what you mean girlfriend! ::snaps fingers:: I often debate with women in real life about these "dating" and "relationship" conundrums...which ends up quite funny and entertaining. That's really where I can get a grasp of the entire situation instead of a tiny shred of information on a forum, the problem is women always explain their "perspective" which is obviously not the situation in it's entirety, so questions are very important. If anything, many women make it more difficult at times because they try to hide/mask/glaze over the parts they really should tell you about, sometimes you gotta pull it out of em...well that's because they know what you're going to say to it too. However they want to tell you EVERRYYY little detail because to women those make allll the difference...that part can drive me crazy sometimes because for men that's mostly irrelevant, but I don't mind hearing it as it helps me get a more accurate picture. A woman is typically going to want you to know everything she feels is substantial and important before wanting to hear your real advice/perspective, they want to make sure you have all the facts! Otherwise, they can easily dismiss your opinion because of "what you don't know", even if it doesn't make a lick of difference, because I know the man isn't registered/affected or influenced by that. Unfortunately or fortunately for me, men are just really not that complex, not in the manner of how they conduct themselves in dating/relationships anyway. The things they're hiding they sure as hell ain't going to tell you, and if they're not telling you something or giving you a straight answer, well it's for a reason and men often react in posture/behavior to everything you do and say to them that they are triggered as "evolving" or "changing" in some way...men don't like change, they just want things just the way they are. And if they want things to change, they want to be the one who initiates that. My biggest fear in giving advice to women will be my inability, or impossible task of being able to address all their concerns and emotions, which must be validated first in order to progress further with them. Often times those details can make a woman feel her situation is entirely different, and If I miss one of those elements, my advice will be derailed entirely by that...however my naysayers would be surprised how much I would understand about their relationship, If I only knew them on a more personal level, because then I can gauge how men perceive you, which of course affects and helps me understand how men will treat you and see you...sometimes they make mental notes without changing behavior, men often cut you off of that long-term potential category without expressing any indication at all...so it doesn't help that women are so silent and fearful of speaking to men about their emotions and thoughts, that's a major problem/hurdle for many women to overcome, and often costs them dearly on the emotional level...sometimes causing irreparable damage to their psyche for the future, as men are often aloof to a woman's emotional investment/state, and she is typically unaware of the man's true emotional level/investment/expectations. Edited May 11, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas
candie13 Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 Well I think it's hard to describe for a handful of reasons. For one, it's probably different for every person. Like many of the posters here have tried to describe, it's like a feeling. A feeling that you're building something, growing towards each other, can see yourself blending your lives together in the future, have feelings for each other, see yourself in the other person's life for a long time to come, have goals that you're working towards together. Moving in, meeting family, things like that. When those things are missing, you're just dating but not dating to the point where it could turn into a committed relationship. I think sometimes people do this because they are not ready for a serious relationship and the time that takes to really grow a relationship, sometimes people are scared, sometimes they like you enough to date you but can't see themselves with you in the future (like KungFuJoe mentioned with his girl), and other reasons like that. So even though on the outset it can look like a relationship, like you could check things off of a list like each other, check attracted to each other, check talk or text daily, check go out on dates, check plan future dates, check sexually compatible, check it doesn't mean it's going to grow into anything more than what it is. And if it never will and one party wants that in their life then you're just not compatible and at some point the person who wants more will need to move on. Please don't judge me to harsh for the following post, as I'm gonna give you my honest opinion. You two are well together. He is there for you and initiates contact. What does this mean, to a full of energy, thinking and full of personality girl such as yourself? IMHO, you're getting a bit bored. What is he started to not contact all that often? Be a little bit less available? LEt you guessin' some more? I can tell you, you will have all your attention on him . It doesn't mean you don't love him, it only means he's a bit less of a challenge to you. There are guys who know how to make themselves appear or be more of a challenge and yet be shallow inside. So, with regard to your relationship, there are two sides: one is the DEPTH the other one is the BEHAVIOR. If there is a real exchange with this guy, if there is depth, if he brings you something, as a person, that you may reconsider him. If however you only fancy him because he gives you attention - he adopts the approved behavior of a "boyfriend" - but in the end, he leaves you cold... start thinking how yo'd feel if he started to play a bit, to spicy things up. You might be surprised of your answers !
candie13 Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 as for the difference between dating and casually dating, to me it's simple: - I am casually seeing someone, when irrespective of how often that person initiates contact, I don't really bother to know things about them or their daily life - I care more about the dates and having a good time; I know I am casually seeing someone when I feel that person is not that interesting to me, so I'm not really trying to get to know them not am I projecting myself in the near future with them - I am dating a guy, if other than when he contacts me, I find myself thinking about them, or remembering something they said and actually looking forward to seeing them again, to share a funny story about something they like. I'm interested. I'm not sure all relationships start with casual dating. If I am casual about someone, I'm not really interested in them, I don't really take them seriously... chances are, I'm half way gone already... that's just me, I either like a guy or not... 1
happykat Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 OP, I get what you mean about the feeling of "building something" together.. But how do you know he's not feeling that? Maybe his perspective is completely different.. Also, since you two are exclusive how do you know when to get off this ride? lol
tuxedo cat Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 I don't understand the purpose of these "relationships." It feels like you're just going through the motions, pretending to be together. Why waste your time with someone you're not into? It almost seems depressing and degrading to your self esteem to spend so much time around somebody who doesn't like you enough to want a full blown relationship with you. 3
happykat Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 It almost seems depressing and degrading to your self esteem to spend so much time around somebody who doesn't like you enough to want a full blown relationship with you. I love this! As far as men go, how long do you think it takes before they know if they want a full blown relationship with you? After a few months, if it's not going anywhere, do you think it never will?
outsidethebox Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 Why does everyone including OP say it isn't going anywhere? Where the hell do you think other people go? And now this guy's getting ragged on when you would think it'd be impossible to be ragged on, but leave it to this crew, they'll find a way.
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