honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 This is a complex topic, so I wasn't sure where to put it. It boils down to "dating", so that is why it's here. If it needs to be moved, I apologize. Anyway, on to the question. My boyfriend and I have been together for 4 years now. There is an age difference (he is 25 years older than me). His wife died 10 years ago. We have been a very strong couple for the last 3.5 years. We fell for each other very effortlessly and lovingly. We moved in together after 6 months (which I normally wouldn't do, but everything just fell into place). The relationship has always been very easy. He is very good to me, likewise, I am good to him. We are happy people. We fight on occasion, like any couple, but it's not anything serious. My question is... he seems to hate the idea of marriage. We have talked about it, he usually sidesteps, or worse, seems put out having to talk about it. Sometimes I feel it's a chore for him to discuss (but this could be my own exasperation on the subject). I have been upfront with him, explained this is something I want/need, and I need to know where he stands -- as it's not fair to me to keep me hanging on. He always says he sees us getting married "someday", that he wants to do it on "his own time". He also says he wants us to be together for as long as we can, he says he only sees me in his life. So, what the heck? Is he still struggling with his wife's death? Is he "just not that into me"? I cannot believe he doesn't love me, as he treats me with such love and respect. I'm getting frustrated.
Woggle Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Many men these days view marriage as not worth the risk. Why not ask him why he is so much a against marriage and really listen when he says what he feels. A woman actually showing some empathy for a man's fears is sometimes all that is needed to make a man look at marriage in a different light. 2
apple OR orange Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 hes been married once, he doesnt want it again. This doesnt mean he doesnt want to stay with you, just wants to choose to stay with you, not have a signed contract over his head. Which is better, choice or made to stay?
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 Many men these days view marriage as not worth the risk. Why not ask him why he is so much a against marriage and really listen when he says what he feels. A woman actually showing some empathy for a man's fears is sometimes all that is needed to make a man look at marriage in a different light. I have asked him why he doesn't like discussing it, or if there is something he feels is holding him back, something I am doing, etc... He always says he wants to do it on his own time, and basically that anytime I bring it up, it pushes the possibility of marriage back that much more, because he feels pressured. I've probably broached the subject on 3 separate occasions. 2 as of recent. I don't wanna talk about it incessantly, yknow? But at the same time, I wanted him to know I was seriously thinking about it.
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 hes been married once, he doesnt want it again. This doesnt mean he doesnt want to stay with you, just wants to choose to stay with you, not have a signed contract over his head. Which is better, choice or made to stay? I agree, him wanting to stay is the best scenario. But I suppose him wanting to marry me and progress to the next level is important to me. At the end of the day, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to fully commit to me. Maybe I am old fashioned in this thinking. 1
ChessPieceFace Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 he seems to hate the idea of marriage. Means his brain cells are working. Marriage is a horrendous deal for men in the western world nowadays. 1
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 Means his brain cells are working. Marriage is a horrendous deal for men in the western world nowadays. That's pretty cynical, ChessPieceFace. I think marriage would be "horrendous" only if you were not in love and/or marrying for ulterior motives.
freetolove Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 well, the great part about not being married is you can date other people. if you're so into the idea of marriage, start looking for someone else. you moved in with him, you "put out" and gave him everything that he needs, why the **** does he need to marry you? 3
Woggle Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Give it a rest. The guy is 25 years older than the OP. He ought to be thrilled he's got a much younger woman who wants anything to DO with him. I wouldn't waste my time with a guy 25 years older than me. The chances are pretty high that HE'LL bite the bullet long before she will. And when he gets older and needs someone around who loves him and is willing to feed him strained peas by the window so he can watch the birds, wipe the drool off his chin constantly and change his diapers 6 times a day, that's such a "horrendous deal" he'll be getting, right? Yeah, sure it is. OP, some very bitter and socially stunted people are constantly pushing their agenda here on LS. Take their 'advice' with a huge grain of salt. Lastly, I understand where you're coming from and don't blame you for feeling slighted. Any man who thinks you're good enough to clean his house, scrub his toilets, do his laundry, cook his food, AND work a full time job and contribute financially - plus do all the other houshold chores that always seem to fall on women only - but NOT good enough to marry, is a selfish dickhead who deserves to be alone. The only one getting anything out of that deal is your boyfriend. He's now got a live in maid, extra financial help, and a woman in his bed every night. And you've got some old guy telling you you're not good enough to marry. He should be glad you're still around. I'd have been gone LONG ago. Where did you get the idea that she was doing all that for him? I have a friend who refused to marry his ex and even she admitted that he did a better job cleaning than her. Now that she is out his apartment still looks spotless and he cooks very well. I am sorry if you experience has been men that treated you like a maid but there are plenty of men perfectly okay with cleaning up after themselves.
Sunshine87 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 It's perfectly fine that you want to get married. He has been married before and you should be entitled to that if you want it. But why are you living with him? I don't think you should bring it up. If you move out, he might interpret your actions as reaction to his refusal to get married now. If you don't move out, you run the risk of playing house wife without actually being a wife. Heck he might leave you one day after having taken many years of your life! OP, no one can answer the question for you. YOU need to make that decision. But I value marriage and I want to get married and I hope to get married soon. So I personally would not compromise on that desire. Are you really content being a girlfriend?
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 You didn't date this man for 4 years....you have "serviced" this man for 4 years. 25 years older? my god, old men rejoice! all of our porn dreams will come true! Guys who move in with you quickly...like within six months, need something from you. There's a reason they are moving that quickly into the relationship with you, sure I'll bet with pu$$y whipped on top of it, especially for a girl 25 years younger. I'm sure you're a nice "stress relief" considering the age difference, a breathe of "fresh air". But look, the guys not only had his wife die on him (which who knows the effects on that, especially determining how she died and how long he was married, etc) he's also dating someone...25 years younger...you're not on the same page/level as him...he's already been there done that, for you it's about "love", for him it's about companionship and likely a young vagina. Move on before this guy either croaks on you, or you end up getting married when he needs to reassure his own security...his own time will take forever, and by then he might not even do it. There's things you need to understand about this man that you are ignoring or just lack the experience to understand, and it seems you haven't talked about the real reasons holding him back and the real reasons he's dating you. It went by for 4 years because of him...because it was easy, now that you're demanding something out of the relationship I'm sure you'll start having some real problems, he's going to want you to just sit and wait like a pretty pretty little princess. 4
BluEyeL Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 You are young, please stop wasting your time. He has no interest to marry you. You want to be married. Let him know calmly that that is important to you, you don't want the same things, then move out, and mean it. Look for someone who wants the same things as you want. If after 4 years he doesn't know if he wants to marry you, then he will never know, especially since you are basically continuing to give him everything a marriage would give him, without him having to actually marry. 3
Mr_Flay Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 So why is marriage so important to you? What will actually change once you sign the marriage register? You'll still live together, do the same things, act the same way... Marriage serves little purpose today.
Ed the 3rd Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Woggle, with all due respect, you're in your 30's. The clear majority of men over 50 are the more traditional ones. I have YET to meet one that actually pulls 50% of his weight around the house with regard to food shopping, laundry, cleaning, cooking, bill paying, and the millions of other little chores one does around the home. Just because a guy takes out the trash or empties the dishwasher or vacuums the floor occasionally doesn't mean he's doing 50% around the house. It generally ALWAYS falls on the woman's shoulders.That's a stereotype. Both my father who is 50 and my grandfather who is 70somthing do everything in their houses.
Sunshine87 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 That's a stereotype. Both my father who is 50 and my grandfather who is 70somthing do everything in their houses. Well, there are always exceptions to the rule.
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 Give it a rest. The guy is 25 years older than the OP. He ought to be thrilled he's got a much younger woman who wants anything to DO with him. I wouldn't waste my time with a guy 25 years older than me. The chances are pretty high that HE'LL bite the bullet long before she will. And when he gets older and needs someone around who loves him and is willing to feed him strained peas by the window so he can watch the birds, wipe the drool off his chin constantly and change his diapers 6 times a day, that's such a "horrendous deal" he'll be getting, right? Yeah, sure it is. OP, some very bitter and socially stunted people are constantly pushing their agenda here on LS. Take their 'advice' with a huge grain of salt. Lastly, I understand where you're coming from and don't blame you for feeling slighted. Any man who thinks you're good enough to clean his house, scrub his toilets, do his laundry, cook his food, AND work a full time job and contribute financially - plus do all the other houshold chores that always seem to fall on women only - but NOT good enough to marry, is a selfish dickhead who deserves to be alone. The only one getting anything out of that deal is your boyfriend. He's now got a live in maid, extra financial help, and a woman in his bed every night. And you've got some old guy telling you you're not good enough to marry. He should be glad you're still around. I'd have been gone LONG ago. Thanks for understanding where I am coming from, Just. Also, while I hate to agree with it, it is true that likely he will die long before me and that I will have to take care of him for awhile (while I am still pretty young at that). I know other people are kind of mocking me for the age difference or the fact that I didn't leave sooner... but I was younger and being younger, I wasn't really "looking down the road" or planning anything. However, now I've had time to think about things and I feel like some of the enchantment is wearing off with his refusal. Anyway, as for him, he is one of those rare guys who does pull his weight at home. Things are split pretty evenly... he cooks, he cleans. That's actually one of the things I really love about him; he's independent and self-sufficient (because honestly, men who act like they have two broken legs or the inability to understand how to cook, etc drive me nuts). However, I can't help but feel he is saying exactly what you've written here: I'm not good enough to marry... even if those aren't his words exactly. I am feeling really jilted.
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 It's perfectly fine that you want to get married. He has been married before and you should be entitled to that if you want it. But why are you living with him? I don't think you should bring it up. If you move out, he might interpret your actions as reaction to his refusal to get married now. If you don't move out, you run the risk of playing house wife without actually being a wife. Heck he might leave you one day after having taken many years of your life! OP, no one can answer the question for you. YOU need to make that decision. But I value marriage and I want to get married and I hope to get married soon. So I personally would not compromise on that desire. Are you really content being a girlfriend? No, Sunshine, I'm not content being "just" a girlfriend. And honestly, I feel silly calling myself that. We've been serious longer than all our friends, and my family, who are all married already or engaged. So I feel very juvenile, and I DO feel like we are playing house... and I don't want that. I suppose moving out would be the next logical step. But are you suggesting I continue the relationship or just call it off altogether? Again, I do love him, and there is nothing else wrong with things. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (yknow, that baby that will never come, since it seems we will never get married).
Revolver Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Here's what I've always wondered... WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GET MARRIED? What's wrong with being "just boyfriend and girlfriend"? The media and other women have put this idea in the minds of girls from a young age that if your somehow not married by a certain age or never get married your life is somehow incomplete. Almost like a woman who isn't married is somehow undesirable and I think that's unfortunate.
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 You didn't date this man for 4 years....you have "serviced" this man for 4 years. 25 years older? my god, old men rejoice! all of our porn dreams will come true! Guys who move in with you quickly...like within six months, need something from you. There's a reason they are moving that quickly into the relationship with you, sure I'll bet with pu$$y whipped on top of it, especially for a girl 25 years younger. I'm sure you're a nice "stress relief" considering the age difference, a breathe of "fresh air". But look, the guys not only had his wife die on him (which who knows the effects on that, especially determining how she died and how long he was married, etc) he's also dating someone...25 years younger...you're not on the same page/level as him...he's already been there done that, for you it's about "love", for him it's about companionship and likely a young vagina. Move on before this guy either croaks on you, or you end up getting married when he needs to reassure his own security...his own time will take forever, and by then he might not even do it. There's things you need to understand about this man that you are ignoring or just lack the experience to understand, and it seems you haven't talked about the real reasons holding him back and the real reasons he's dating you. It went by for 4 years because of him...because it was easy, now that you're demanding something out of the relationship I'm sure you'll start having some real problems, he's going to want you to just sit and wait like a pretty pretty little princess. I understand why you'd think he is treating me like a "pretty little princess" due to the age gap... and maybe I am naive (but I don't think so)... it's not like that. We actually are equals, or at the very least, I have always felt treated like an equal. However, I do feel "his time" will take forever. I'm really not interested in being a 40 year old bride or something (not that there is anything wrong with it, just not for me). I have tried to talk about the real reasons behind it, but he gets so bristly when I've brought it up... and then I get upset. So it's just a bad cycle. Anyhow, I do think he loves me and he does treat me well. That's not be being ignorant or inexperienced, that is true. So, like I mentioned before, just throwing the relationship out seems kind of hasty. However, I get what you all are saying: he is not going to marry me if he hasn't yet. So now the ball is in my court. It's just remarkably depressing.
Author honeytea Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 Here's what I've always wondered... WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GET MARRIED? What's wrong with being "just boyfriend and girlfriend"? The media and other women have put this idea in the minds of girls from a young age that if your somehow not married by a certain age or never get married your life is somehow incomplete. Almost like a woman who isn't married is somehow undesirable and I think that's unfortunate. I've been struggling with this idea, too, Revolver. And sometimes I think, okay, it's better not to be married. I am a pretty independent person myself, and the thought of being tied down used to scare the crap out of me. Until now anyway. I don't know what the logical "why" is behind my wanting to get married. I've just want to get married. Falling in love and then having a ceremony to celebrate that love is a very romantic notion to me. It would be a really wonderful moment in my life, that I feel I deserve and want. That's all there is to it.
Cutiepie1976 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) I have tried to talk about the real reasons behind it, but he gets so bristly when I've brought it up... If this is his reaction when you bring up the topic of marriage after you've lived together for three years, you're wasting your time! He has no intention of marrying you with this status quo. The arrangement as it stands meets all his needs. He'll pay lip service to "someday" to string you along and keep you from leaving with all the benefits he enjoys, but he's not interested in more. His needs are met. Are yours? You have no one but yourself to blame if you continue to stick around and waste your life on this. Frankly, you should have cut the cord a LONG, LONG time ago. He was lucky to have ever snagged you. He got a woman in the prime of her life. You got a guy facing a future of declining health and progressive erectile dysfunction. Think to when he's 70 and you're still his live-in girlfriend in you're 40's that he might "someday" marry. That's your future right now. Totally nuts! Work on your self-esteem and learn to value yourself. That you put up with this nonsense from a guy who is a generation older than you is mind-boggling. Walk if your needs aren't met instead of hoping things will miraculously change. The husband, 2.1 kids, etc.? Not a chance with him at this point. Cut your losses. Edited May 10, 2013 by Cutiepie1976
FitChick Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Does he have children? How do they feel about you? Perhaps they have threatened him with no contact with their families if he remarries because they fear loss of inheritance. How many serious relationships have you had? You want marriage but do you also want children? I'd suggest a trial separation of a year -- can you move in with friends or family or find your own apartment? You can decide if you both will continue to date while you are dating others. He will see that it will be very hard to replace you. You will see that it is easy to replace him!
MsSmurf Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 No, Sunshine, I'm not content being "just" a girlfriend. And honestly, I feel silly calling myself that. We've been serious longer than all our friends, and my family, who are all married already or engaged. So I feel very juvenile, and I DO feel like we are playing house... and I don't want that. I suppose moving out would be the next logical step. But are you suggesting I continue the relationship or just call it off altogether? Again, I do love him, and there is nothing else wrong with things. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (yknow, that baby that will never come, since it seems we will never get married). Wait a baby? If he isn't willing to sit down and have an actual discussion about the possibility of marriage I'm not getting the impression he'll have a discussion about a baby either. At his age if he doesn't already have children it is possible he doesn't want any and if he has some he may not want more. Also you mentioned the age gap and the likelihood that you will outlive him, do really want to be a young widow with a baby? Don't get me wrong, I fully understand your perspective and why being his lifetime live in girlfriend isn't enough for you. It certainly wouldn't be enough for me and I have always refused to live with a guy because of it. However I don't think the question you should be asking is when will he be willing to talk about the possibility of getting married because that ship has already sailed. He isn't willing to talk about it, he's told you that repeatedly, and its time you listened to him. That doesn't mean he doesn't love you, it doesn't mean he wants to break up, it doesn't mean he's still hung up on his wife, and it doesn't mean he'll change his mind. It means he already has what he wants so in his mind there is nothing else to talk about. The question you should be asking is if getting married is something you truly want how long are you willing to stay in a relationship that will never go in that direction? Only you can know the answer to that. Staying together, but you moving out is the equivalent of giving him an ultimatum that says marry me or else. That isn't going to work because you want him to want to marry you, not do it to appease you. So if moving out is what you decide to do be prepared for that to be the end and then start the moving on process. If you decide getting married isn't that important to you then start learning to accept and appreciate what he is offering you.
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