Can insecure men handle dating attractive women?

May 9, 2013

IF someone is a commitment phobe, it is highly unlikely the two can work in harmony to correct it. That is the reality of it.

I'm a commitment-phobe, but still in a good relationship.

You're hot btw.

May 9, 2013

I'm a commitment-phobe, but still in a good relationship.

You're hot btw.

Clearly, CP.

And thank you..

May 9, 2013

Have you asked him what his thoughts on marriage are and/or if he ever sees himself having a family?

yes, I did. Fight no 2. He got so scared after that, that he disappeared for 5 days - he usually keeps in contact every single day. He said he did want both marriage and children. But he was feeling cornered, threatened by my questions.

Anyway, he came back around, after the 5 days in London.

May 9, 2013

Insecure people date attractive people all the time.

As to your specific situation, it reads like high school drama. I was surprised when you mentioned your age as 30+. Why not just go out and have fun and not worry about a gf/bf relationship? Just based on this thread I don't see this type of relationship working out for you at the moment.

May 9, 2013

Insecure people date attractive people all the time.

As to your specific situation, it reads like high school drama. I was surprised when you mentioned your age as 30+. Why not just go out and have fun and not worry about a gf/bf relationship? Just based on this thread I don't see this type of relationship working out for you at the moment.

People have depth, I wouldn't describe him as just insecure. That is just one layer. He is also determined. He is equally smart. Strong. Passionate. Vulnerable to me, too. With his own insecurities, as well.

I have had my share of fun and I don't need to go out and continue meeting men. He is a rare person, he is valuable, you understand what I mean? I appreciate him, he stands out in a crowd. Compared to all these other men before him, he can match my character. He understands women, deep down inside. It's just that there's this inertia, inside him.

I feel like I'm fighting him to let me conquest more territory, inside his heart. He wants to let me in, but he fights me, at the same time. It all goes by stages, with him:

- First, it was him considering me, as an individual and my needs - he is self centered and has this amazing career keeping him busy, so he wasn't used to paying attention to women near him.I believe most women would get sucked into his strong personality and engaging career.

- The second stage, was that where we stopped dating and started a relationship, talked about a potential future together; it's where I've asked him if he wants to continue to stay in Switzerland or leave; if he ever wants kids and marriage; he was scared to confront these questions and even more scared to give me an answer; He was afraid I might want to take over and make these important decisions fro him; he eventually trusted me and came back to me, with answers

- The third stage was that of us merging our social lives together; he is utterly independent and wanted to make sure he can keep his friends and his life; he was also scared about meeting my friends, by being judged by them; was scared by including me and my friends in his life... he eventually did that as well - WIP still

- The fourth stage is where we are: building plans together, including eachother in our immediate future - holidays, concerts

My doubts are linked to the process of getting over these stages. OMG, the clashes! The fights! I am not used to fight a man, this hard. You can say, of course, at least, I am getting somewhere. We are making progress. We have something to show for. Other relationships may be smoother, but maybe men are less honest and I am may not know exactly where I am.

I'm scared that right now, we are def making progress. I'm just not sure if I can continue to fight with this man forever, even if we have something to show for. What if I get tired? What if I get vulnerable? He does not know how to attend my needs, when I am asking him nicely. I need to challenge him, to blow a grenade into his head, for him to understand that yes, I am not out there, with my needs... and I am not ridiculous with my expectations either.

It goes to trust and compatibility. I don't know if I can trust him. Last night we've had our fourth stage raw. It came with me shouting and breaking up with him (again) and with him admitting he loves me and him willing to set dates for our holidays. He doesn't want to quit, he wants us to sit together and talk. But I had to firmly set my feet in to ground and aim for his head. One can say I got what I wanted, eventually... but is this how I want it ?

He lacks emotional intelligence and I have too much of that. He compensates with a strong rational, but.. I just wonder if that does not make us incompatible, in the long run.

I cannot expect him to change his ways, so I don't know what to do, it's his character.

I like myself. I am at peace with myself. If ever I decide we're incompatible in our ways, despite our compatibility in our goals, it wouldn't be to go out with other guys and have fun. I hate the dating scene. I know I am attractive and while I am amused by the attention, it's nothing but a whim. I have admitted to being vain. I however am not superficial.

I'd much rather be appreciated for my values, my intellect, my choices, my flaws than for my looks, professional career, social skills and moves in bed. Anytime. And he is a rare gem. I guess I just don't know if he is the one.

Edited May 9, 2013 by candie13

May 9, 2013

People have depth, I wouldn't describe him as just insecure. That is just one layer. He is also determined. He is equally smart. Strong. Passionate. Vulnerable to me, too. With his own insecurities, as well.

I have had my share of fun and I don't need to go out and continue meeting men. He is a rare person, he is valuable, you understand what I mean? I appreciate him, he stands out in a crowd. Compared to all these other men before him, he can match my character. He understands women, deep down inside. It's just that there's this inertia, inside him.

I feel like I'm fighting him to let me conquest more territory, inside his heart. He wants to let me in, but he fights me, at the same time. It all goes by stages, with him:

- First, it was him considering me, as an individual and my needs - he is self centered and has this amazing career keeping him busy, so he wasn't used to paying attention to women near him.I believe most women would get sucked into his strong personality and engaging career.

- The second stage, was that where we stopped dating and started a relationship, talked about a potential future together; it's where I've asked him if he wants to continue to stay in Switzerland or leave; if he ever wants kids and marriage; he was scared to confront these questions and even more scared to give me an answer; He was afraid I might want to take over and make these important decisions fro him; he eventually trusted me and came back to me, with answers

- The third stage was that of us merging our social lives together; he is utterly independent and wanted to make sure he can keep his friends and his life; he was also scared about meeting my friends, by being judged by them; was scared by including me and my friends in his life... he eventually did that as well - WIP still

- The fourth stage is where we are: building plans together, including eachother in our immediate future - holidays, concerts

My doubts are linked to the process of getting over these stages. OMG, the clashes! The fights! I am not used to fight a man, this hard. You can say, of course, at least, I am getting somewhere. We are making progress. We have something to show for. Other relationships may be smoother, but maybe men are less honest and I am may not know exactly where I am.

I'm scared that right now, we are def making progress. I'm just not sure if I can continue to fight with this man forever, even if we have something to show for. What if I get tired? What if I get vulnerable? He does not know how to attend my needs, when I am asking him nicely. I need to challenge him, to blow a grenade into his head, for him to understand that yes, I am not out there, with my needs... and I am not ridiculous with my expectations either.

It goes to trust and compatibility. I don't know if I can trust him. Last night we've had our fourth stage raw. It came with me shouting and breaking up with him (again) and with him admitting he loves me and him willing to set dates for our holidays. He doesn't want to quit, he wants us to sit together and talk. But I had to firmly set my feet in to ground and aim for his head. One can say I got what I wanted, eventually... but is this how I want it ?

He lacks emotional intelligence and I have too much of that. He compensates with a strong rational, but.. I just wonder if that does not make us incompatible, in the long run.

I cannot expect him to change his ways, so I don't know what to do, it's his character.

I like myself. I am at peace with myself. If ever I decide we're incompatible in our ways, despite our compatibility in our goals, it wouldn't be to go out with other guys and have fun. I hate the dating scene. I know I am attractive and while I am amused by the attention, it's nothing but a whim. I have admitted to being vain. I however am not superficial.

I'd much rather be appreciated for my values, my intellect, my choices, my flaws than for my looks, professional career, social skills and moves in bed. Anytime. And he is a rare gem. I guess I just don't know if he is the one.

Whew my eyes just glazed over big time. Maybe one of the ladies on here can help you with all that.

May 9, 2013

I'm a commitment-phobe, but still in a good relationship.

You're hot btw.

only our divasu has the right to compliments, I see... she is smokin' hot though, for sure !

May 9, 2013

Whew my eyes just glazed over big time. Maybe one of the ladies on here can help you with all that.

Thanks, Stan. I'm a bit stuck here, I guess.

we're all imperfect, I sometimes think we're better at accepting our own imperfect-ness and have a harder time accepting those belonging to people around us.

May 9, 2013

People have depth, I wouldn't describe him as just insecure. That is just one layer. He is also determined. He is equally smart. Strong. Passionate. Vulnerable to me, too. With his own insecurities, as well.

I have had my share of fun and I don't need to go out and continue meeting men. He is a rare person, he is valuable, you understand what I mean? I appreciate him, he stands out in a crowd. Compared to all these other men before him, he can match my character. He understands women, deep down inside. It's just that there's this inertia, inside him.

I feel like I'm fighting him to let me conquest more territory, inside his heart. He wants to let me in, but he fights me, at the same time. It all goes by stages, with him:

- First, it was him considering me, as an individual and my needs - he is self centered and has this amazing career keeping him busy, so he wasn't used to paying attention to women near him.I believe most women would get sucked into his strong personality and engaging career.

- The second stage, was that where we stopped dating and started a relationship, talked about a potential future together; it's where I've asked him if he wants to continue to stay in Switzerland or leave; if he ever wants kids and marriage; he was scared to confront these questions and even more scared to give me an answer; He was afraid I might want to take over and make these important decisions fro him; he eventually trusted me and came back to me, with answers

- The third stage was that of us merging our social lives together; he is utterly independent and wanted to make sure he can keep his friends and his life; he was also scared about meeting my friends, by being judged by them; was scared by including me and my friends in his life... he eventually did that as well - WIP still

- The fourth stage is where we are: building plans together, including eachother in our immediate future - holidays, concerts

My doubts are linked to the process of getting over these stages. OMG, the clashes! The fights! I am not used to fight a man, this hard. You can say, of course, at least, I am getting somewhere. We are making progress. We have something to show for. Other relationships may be smoother, but maybe men are less honest and I am may not know exactly where I am.

I'm scared that right now, we are def making progress. I'm just not sure if I can continue to fight with this man forever, even if we have something to show for. What if I get tired? What if I get vulnerable? He does not know how to attend my needs, when I am asking him nicely. I need to challenge him, to blow a grenade into his head, for him to understand that yes, I am not out there, with my needs... and I am not ridiculous with my expectations either.

It goes to trust and compatibility. I don't know if I can trust him. Last night we've had our fourth stage raw. It came with me shouting and breaking up with him (again) and with him admitting he loves me and him willing to set dates for our holidays. He doesn't want to quit, he wants us to sit together and talk. But I had to firmly set my feet in to ground and aim for his head. One can say I got what I wanted, eventually... but is this how I want it ?

He lacks emotional intelligence and I have too much of that. He compensates with a strong rational, but.. I just wonder if that does not make us incompatible, in the long run.

I cannot expect him to change his ways, so I don't know what to do, it's his character.

I like myself. I am at peace with myself. If ever I decide we're incompatible in our ways, despite our compatibility in our goals, it wouldn't be to go out with other guys and have fun. I hate the dating scene. I know I am attractive and while I am amused by the attention, it's nothing but a whim. I have admitted to being vain. I however am not superficial.

I'd much rather be appreciated for my values, my intellect, my choices, my flaws than for my looks, professional career, social skills and moves in bed. Anytime. And he is a rare gem. I guess I just don't know if he is the one.

Sounds to me that you are chasing Mr. Unavailable. If he disappeared for 5 days over a simple question he's never going to get married IMO. I hope I'm wrong though...

May 9, 2013

Sounds to me that you are chasing Mr. Unavailable. If he disappeared for 5 days over a simple question he's never going to get married IMO. I hope I'm wrong though...

the same guy - David, one month later (last week), asked me to come to meet his parents ! like, out of a blue!!!

I have my own insecurities and my own commitment sh*t to handle...

I don't think I could date or feel attracted to man whom I knew wanted straight up to marry me. I somehow feel reassured by David's insecurities, because it means he is asking himself questions. He is evaluating me. He wants to get to know me. He is watching every step and then puts his feet on the ground.

That way of advancing is reassuring to me. I would feel scared if I met a guy who would totally and whole-heartedly immediately accepted me. I'd think the guy didn't even bother knowing me, he just wants me to fill up a place in his life - that of the spouse.

Right now, I have no idea if he is the guy I wanna marry. I cannot expect him to be able to answer that question.

I've been with a guy - my ex- with whom things were smooth. He also had his emotional barriers, but it was a lot easier. It felt a lot easier. Turns out, he never really opened up to me. Turns out, the guy who took me on a long weekend, after one month and a half, the guy who introduced me to his family after two months, the guy who met my family after less than 6 months.. he wasn't ready to marry me, 7 years later.

You just never know. I prefer to ask all the hard questions right now. See David back out right now. Watch him make tough choices right now, in order to have solid, firm growth. I felt reassured that he backed out. He needed that time. He needed to withdraw, in order to be able to come to me. I respect him for doing that, instead of hiding his doubts and putting on the Mr. Secure guy mask.

David never pretended to have or to know the answers to all of my questions. He is being honest. That is rare, in a man. I respect that.

Edited May 9, 2013 by candie13

May 9, 2013

candie,

I don't know if you've already posted, but give some examples of your bf being "insecure". Has he started fights or scenes due to something you did or wore?

May 9, 2013

It goes to trust and compatibility. I don't know if I can trust him. Last night we've had our fourth stage raw. It came with me shouting and breaking up with him (again) and with him admitting he loves me and him willing to set dates for our holidays. He doesn't want to quit, he wants us to sit together and talk. But I had to firmly set my feet in to ground and aim for his head. One can say I got what I wanted, eventually... but is this how I want it ?

That is monumental Candie...

You are right what you said before, you are definitely a 'planner'.

So here's how the process seems to go:

He is fearful, hesitant, whichever...
That drives your need for his approval in the form of emotional security and reassurance
You threaten to leave him when that need is not met
This in turn, causes him to become emotionally available temporarily because he is faced with the loss associated with it (you)
Your need is met temporarily until something he say or does (or doesn't say or do) rubs you the wrong way

Rinse, lather and repeat.

There seems to be a significant amount of emotional dependency at play.

That could be due to (1) Low self-esteem and (2) a need for love in the form of approval (which usually go hand-in-hand). Things that most likely were present before the two of you met, but with your personalities combined, intensifies.

I could be way off, but you can read more about it here:

What Drives Our Need For Approval? | World of Psychology

May 9, 2013

That is monumental Candie...

You are right what you said before, you are definitely a 'planner'.

So here's how the process seems to go:

He is fearful, hesitant, whichever...
That drives your need for his approval in the form of emotional security and reassurance
You threaten to leave him when that need is not met
This in turn, causes him to become emotionally available temporarily because he is faced with the loss associated with it (you)
Your need is met temporarily until something he say or does (or doesn't say or do) rubs you the wrong way
Rinse, lather and repeat.

There seems to be a significant amount of emotional dependency at play.

That could be due to (1) Low self-esteem and (2) a need for love in the form of approval (which usually go hand-in-hand). Things that most likely were present before the two of you met, but with your personalities combined, intensifies.

I could be way off, but you can read more about it here:
What Drives Our Need For Approval? | World of Psychology

Take this one step deeper. Fear of abandonment.

May 9, 2013

Found this article on Fear of Abandonment.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-doc/201210/fear-abandonment-1

May 10, 2013

That is monumental Candie...

You are right what you said before, you are definitely a 'planner'.

So here's how the process seems to go:

He is fearful, hesitant, whichever...
That drives your need for his approval in the form of emotional security and reassurance
You threaten to leave him when that need is not met
This in turn, causes him to become emotionally available temporarily because he is faced with the loss associated with it (you)
Your need is met temporarily until something he say or does (or doesn't say or do) rubs you the wrong way
Rinse, lather and repeat.

There seems to be a significant amount of emotional dependency at play.

That could be due to (1) Low self-esteem and (2) a need for love in the form of approval (which usually go hand-in-hand). Things that most likely were present before the two of you met, but with your personalities combined, intensifies.

I could be way off, but you can read more about it here:
What Drives Our Need For Approval? | World of Psychology

I understand your point, it may be that ! How do I break the circle?

May 10, 2013

Found this article on Fear of Abandonment.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-doc/201210/fear-abandonment-1

For sure - dad emotionally abandoning us in pre Teen, last love affair hitting directly in my fear of abandonment. I wasn't expecting to bump into it, again.

Ok, so how do I work out of it? What really bothers me is that my bf feeds this emotional deoendency, and makes me act all irrational. I Wonder if it's toxic for me... That would be a good one: i finally meet an interesting guy, we finally have a relationship & start using the L word, for me to realize he is toxic! The irony....

So what next?

May 10, 2013

Trust me, I am working on myself. Everyday. For instance, I've stopped being afraid & passive and expressed my needs: I wanted to celebrate my bday with him, so I didn't sit on my arse, expecting him to do something about it. I have expressed my need, chose destinations, dates, flughts & prices and asked him to come along. That is major for me, usually i expect the guy to take over.

I am letting him close to me, inviting him into my life, when he is not doing this. I have faith.

I am doing things - but again, I may be doing this to compensate for my Lack of confidence in him. Deep down inside, I don't have trust in him. And I am convinced I am right not to.

May 10, 2013

candie,

I don't know if you've already posted, but give some examples of your bf being "insecure". Has he started fights or scenes due to something you did or wore?

It's all rather weird, he started a whole speech, all of a sudden, after his parents left. Who knows what they'd been discussing and what his mom may have convinced him of.

I have two episodes to explain:

- A. the salsa class episode. Before, when we started attending it and we started dating, he was not affectionate in public. Rather restrained - also we had started to have sex. Fair enough. After one of our many raws, I was upset with him and his cold behavior in public, so may have been a little easily amused with my other male salsa partners, than the usual. Again, he was there, so i was not in any way disrespectful to him, but I was pushing it.

- the other guys noticed me and noticed me and Davis sometimes coming and leaving together. But, since his behavior was rather ambiguous, one of the guys actually wrote to David and asked him for my email - he is organizing some salsa outings with the rest of the participants. David did ask me if I agreed to communicating that info to this guy, I said why not. New guy drops me an email, asking me if I was interested by his newsletter with latin events... and asking for my telephone number. I've replied I was interested in the first, but uninterested in the second (never gave him my phone number).

- I think this even my have rubbed David the wrong way.

- B. there's also this week's event. We have established to see each other near the weekend and I didn't ask for his schedule during the week, nor did he ask for mine. I went out with a gf to a place I knew he likes to hang out... and I see him there, with this other two male friends ... and a woman. David was talking to this woman. I saw him, but did not go to say hi. I honestly didn't feel like going and saying hi, because I didn't feel like discovering if he and his friends were trying to hit on that girl or if she was with a group of friends and they were about to approach them... I just didn't want to know.

The background on this story is that, one month ago, when I went out with my friends - and he went out with his mates - I asked if I could join him, in case I was getting bored, on my own. He felt offended by the "getting bored" part and told me he was out with his male friends and none of them were bringing any women along.

Anyway, I am sure David saw me at the bar, for he sent me a random text, to which I did not respond. A few moments later, he was not there anymore. During the evening, he texted to see what I was doing and I told him I'd seen him a few hours before. He got very very upset for not coming over and saying "hi" and immediately thought that I didn't want to be seen with him. He asked me how I can be so insecure, make love to him all night, the evening before and then, one evening later, not come and say hi.

Well... it's because he never really introduced me to his mates. He never made me feel welcomed, quite the contrary. I did say that indeed, we got closer, a lot closer the last few weeks, the last month, but I did not know if that emotional closeness meant a change in his behavior.

- then we fought: I told him I was not insecure, but I knew how to put one and one together - especially after him turning me down for the weekend away with me, for my birthday. And not coming up with a proposition. So we had a huge huge raw, I told him I was leaving, because I have emotional needs that he doesn't care to meet, him saying that we should sit down and talk new dates for another weekend, since he was working for my bday...

May 10, 2013

Trust me, I am working on myself. Everyday. For instance, I've stopped being afraid & passive and expressed my needs: I wanted to celebrate my bday with him, so I didn't sit on my arse, expecting him to do something about it. I have expressed my need, chose destinations, dates, flughts & prices and asked him to come along. That is major for me, usually i expect the guy to take over.

I am letting him close to me, inviting him into my life, when he is not doing this. I have faith.

I am doing things - but again, I may be doing this to compensate for my Lack of confidence in him. Deep down inside, I don't have trust in him. And I am convinced I am right not to.

You seem to be self aware so that's the first "hurdle". I recently learned some very important things about myself and I'm only a couple years younger than you so it's never too late. Some people never learn and make mistakes over and over. My uncle married the same type of women 4 times.

The only way for it to work is that both of you have to be willing to let your walls down and be vulnerable to eachother, true intimacy. Intimacy is what a strengthens the bond in a relationship but not many couples have emotional intimacy.

May 10, 2013

For sure ! The thing is, I need what I need and I am really not a patient person. I'll take it one day at a time, and be in tune with me and my needs. I'm naturally a fixer & I cannot let go unless I try really hard to make things fine.

My new resolution is to stay as long as I'm happy and leave when I'm not. It's hard, 'cause all beginnings are hard...

May 10, 2013

I understand your point, it may be that ! How do I break the circle?

For sure - dad emotionally abandoning us in pre Teen, last love affair hitting directly in my fear of abandonment. I wasn't expecting to bump into it, again.

I think a few things...

1. Learn what fear of abandonment really is.

2. See if you identify with its characteristics and try to understand why.

3. There is a lot of useful stuff on the net and valuable books you can read to help.

Whatever you do, the internal process is about you and no one else. Yes, a certain partner can trigger negative reactions more so than others depending on how you two mesh personality wise and emotionally. But if you constantly find yourself in relationships with men who are unavailable emotionally and otherwise, that would indicate you still have some internal work to do.

May 10, 2013

candie,

To be honest, from your reply, I honestly can't tell if your bf is insecure or not. It's all pretty vague.

But what I DO know is that your relationship with him is hanging by a thread, at best, and it doesn't appear it's going to get any better.

I would just break it off

May 10, 2013

I feel like insecurity really only ends up getting worse, not better. Once ideas get into insecure people's minds, it can start to metastisize.

May 11, 2013

For sure - dad emotionally abandoning us in pre Teen, last love affair hitting directly in my fear of abandonment. I wasn't expecting to bump into it, again.

Ok, so how do I work out of it? What really bothers me is that my bf feeds this emotional deoendency, and makes me act all irrational. I Wonder if it's toxic for me... That would be a good one: i finally meet an interesting guy, we finally have a relationship & start using the L word, for me to realize he is toxic! The irony....

So what next?

This is a good write up about Fear of Abandonment. Reading it should ping some high notes with you. It has some suggestions of how to possibly address it.

Fear of Abandonment - A Self-Sabotaging Phobia

May 11, 2013

candie,

To be honest, from your reply, I honestly can't tell if your bf is insecure or not. It's all pretty vague.

But what I DO know is that your relationship with him is hanging by a thread, at best, and it doesn't appear it's going to get any better.

I would just break it off

It doesn't sound like insecurity to me at all it sounds like the guy is either Aspergers or just really self-centered.

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