Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

May 17, 2013

Apparently she replied to me a while ago and I just didn't see it.

"Thanks, I'm still emotionally drained from all of it. The worst part is, he's still trying to talk to me and fix it. And I don't want to. Luckily, I have great supportive friends and co-workers that have been awesome."

Obviously she's not ready to date. I certainly don't want to be seen as a creep and push her too far.

I have absolutely no idea what to do in this situation.

Edited May 17, 2013 by somedude81

May 17, 2013

Apparently she replied to me a while ago and I just didn't see it.

"Thanks, I'm still emotionally drained from all of it. The worst part is, he's still trying to talk to me and fix it. And I don't want to. Luckily, I have great supportive friends and co-workers that have been awesome."

Obviously she's not ready to date. I certainly don't want to be seen as a creep and push her too far.

I have absolutely no idea what to do in this situation.

That's OK.

You know what? You need to put yourself into more situations you're unfamiliar with and don't know what to do - one of the few ways you'll learn. Learn to embrace the uncomfortable. I used to be scared about this sh*t and not know what to do - I had to keep putting myself in that position if I wanted to get anywhere.

May 17, 2013

Apparently she replied to me a while ago and I just didn't see it.

"Thanks, I'm still emotionally drained from all of it. The worst part is, he's still trying to talk to me and fix it. And I don't want to. Luckily, I have great supportive friends and co-workers that have been awesome."

Obviously she's not ready to date. I certainly don't want to be seen as a creep and push her too far.

I have absolutely no idea what do to in this situation.

You're not going to look like a creep. She likes you (tbd romantically, but she likes you generally). Why would you look like a creep?

Don't be her girlfriend. Let it be known that you are an interested man. As long as she is advancing the conversation, you can flirt. She'll back off if she doesn't like the flirting. "That does sound tough. I'm sorry. I'd be happy to offer my services to take your mind off of him." The worst she'll do is laugh it off, and say good night.

May 17, 2013

You're not going to look like a creep. She likes you (tbd romantically, but she likes you generally). Why would you look like a creep?

Don't be her girlfriend. Let it be known that you are an interested man. As long as she is advancing the conversation, you can flirt. She'll back off if she doesn't like the flirting. "That does sound tough. I'm sorry. I'd be happy to offer my services to take your mind off of him." The worst she'll do is laugh it off, and say good night.

xxoo, you're better at being a guy than I am

May 17, 2013

xxoo, you're better at being a guy than I am

I'm just channeling what my husband would say. I learned from the best

May 17, 2013

xxoo, you're better at being a guy than I am

Good advice above.

Basically the same thing but this is a situation where I am careful with humor. It can diffuse tension, but you can diffuse too much. I'd say the same thing but direct and simple.

Yeah, glad it is over. I find you attractive, when you are ready to loosen up I've got some fun plans I bet you'll love.

(She will respond curious to what the plans are, go to allevents on facebook and find something she would get excited about)

BAM! You got your shot.

May 17, 2013

Good advice above.

Basically the same thing but this is a situation where I am careful with humor. It can diffuse tension, but you can diffuse too much. I'd say the same thing but direct and simple.

Yeah, glad it is over. I find you attractive, when you are ready to loosen up I've got some fun plans I bet you'll love.

(She will respond curious to what the plans are, go to allevents on facebook and find something she would get excited about)

BAM! You got your shot.

I don't understand tension at all.

I read over your previous post a few times and kinda got it, but not really.

BTW I do have an idea of what I'd like to take her to, but it's not till a month from now. She lives about 40 minutes from me and the event is a pretty big festival that's in her city.

Last time I went, I took my mom, so it would be nice to go with somebody else

May 17, 2013

I don't understand tension at all.

I read over your previous post a few times and kinda got it, but not really.

BTW I do have an idea of what I'd like to take her to, but it's not till a month from now. She lives about 40 minutes from me and the event is a pretty big festival that's in her city.

Last time I went, I took my mom, so it would be nice to go with somebody else

Let me elaborate on tension a little bit. One of the biggest problems with feelings and emotions is that we often don't label them accurately or make assumptions about what they mean.

Ever get nervous around someone attractive? At some point this has HAD to have happened. That is "tension," here is the thing, that feeling is NOT the same nervous that I get doing work that is dangerous. That nervous is not the same as participating in a competition. It is its own special feeling.

Is that nervous good or bad? How you answer that depends entirely on your outcomes. If you have had dating success, you seek that strong feeling. When you are having failure you will fear that feeling and start to interpret it badly. It is the same feeling though. When I fell apart I began FEARING this feeling, when I am at my best I seek it.

Tension is that part that feels so good when you are hanging on each others words. When both people are experiencing this tension it is wonderful. On the other hand people who have less luck with dating begin to fear this. It becomes a bad emotion that causes them to do stupid things in front of the other person (the person good at flirting will simply be vulnerable, and laugh at these same behaviors enjoying their moment with the person) The person who is not used to the tension may find themselves nervous and even angry in its presence. The other person will see you as not attractive, and not experience "chemistry" due to this factor alone.

Tension does NOT mean unsafe. Women like "bad boys", not complete psychos. A woman must feel physically safe, but have an emotional vulnerability and respect for you. Look for rules to break, like a direct question and teasing. Someone mentioned putting someone on the spot with a question, that is GREAT behavior cause if you pace is right, take your time, and let the other person become vulnerable and tense, you will be able to break all that tension with a simple approval. They will have mad attraction.

Tension is good and your friend, but it probably feels like an enemy right now. That is why I warn people about humor. Done correctly you can seem very confident, on the other hand sarcasm, self-deprecation etc. are not sexy unless you truly are a massively respected man (ala Jon Stewart). NEVER diffuse the tension early on, that is the addictive feeling women get towards you. Finally be HONEST.

You DO NOT want to be her friend. I'm betting you have been down that path before. Did you learn anything? Like the fact YOU DO NOT want to be her friend. SAY IT! Hey, I wanna get to know you! Say it! I like how you just looked at me, I felt that! Say it!

A minute ago you talked about the smart thing to do, and you talked about friending her, when you DO NOT WANT THAT. Learn a lesson, and go for it and be honest with yourself. We all lie to ourselves, call that out. When you see others lie, call them out. You will be loved and appreciated as an exceptional man for these skills alone.

TENSION AND HONESTY. Get to know them well.

May 17, 2013

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

No such thing as "cheating". Put her on the spot. In fact, even better.

"I'm glad you thought about me when you became single, makes me feel special. I'm curious why you wanted to tell me?" (Do this over the phone and watch her stammer, it is hillarious. DO NOT break this with a joke, if she tries to use a joke, then simply say, "your nervous" and laugh, "that's okay."

A bit of a powerplay but give it a shot.

May 17, 2013

woohoo is nailing it. his advice is dead on.

SD, you often say you can't see or make the connection between having (male) friends and getting a GF.

Well, it seems you are liking AND getting a lot out of Woohoo's posts. Imagine if you were friends with a guy like Woohoo in real life. Y'all could meet up, talk in person and get that instant, immediate feedback. Plus your friend would be able to see your body language and maybe even give you a few key tips that none of us can, simply because we CAN'T see your body language.

Wouldn't having a friend like Woohoo in real life be a good thing? He could not only give you pointers on how to act around cute girls, but it would just be plain healthy for ANYONE to have someone to talk with in real life.

And the healthier a person is, the more attractive they become. The more attractive they become, the better chance they will have of attracting someone.

May 17, 2013

No such thing as "cheating". Put her on the spot. In fact, even better.

"I'm glad you thought about me when you became single, makes me feel special. I'm curious why you wanted to tell me?" (Do this over the phone and watch her stammer, it is hillarious. DO NOT break this with a joke, if she tries to use a joke, then simply say, "your nervous" and laugh, "that's okay."

A bit of a powerplay but give it a shot.

When I suggested it would be too confrontational to just ask her directly -

"Why are you single?"

I confess, it didn't occur to me that he could ask in the softer, less confrontational matter you put forward here. But I agree, asking her in that way, would be much better! And although she'd be nervous, I think she'd ultimately be more receptive to that approach.

So yes, if you feel up for it, give it a shot SD!

May 17, 2013

woohoo is nailing it. his advice is dead on.

SD, you often say you can't see or make the connection between having (male) friends and getting a GF.

Well, it seems you are liking AND getting a lot out of Woohoo's posts. Imagine if you were friends with a guy like Woohoo in real life. Y'all could meet up, talk in person and get that instant, immediate feedback. Plus your friend would be able to see your body language and maybe even give you a few key tips that none of us can, simply because we CAN'T see your body language.

Wouldn't having a friend like Woohoo in real life be a good thing? He could not only give you pointers on how to act around cute girls, but it would just be plain healthy for ANYONE to have someone to talk with in real life.

And the healthier a person is, the more attractive they become. The more attractive they become, the better chance they will have of attracting someone.

This is really the only point I've been trying to get across in my posts (although not always successfully I confess).

But I apologize if I've ever sounded like I was criticizing you personally SD. That was never my intention. I honestly am only trying to help you with dating, by attempting to show you the benefits that positivity and confidence can bring, as well as warning you of the pitfalls of negativity and the dangers of living with untreated depression.

Woohoo is clearly much more adept at getting this notion across than I ever can be, because he's a guy who has had first hand experience dealing with your exact problems and so can relate to your point of view much more accurately than I can (me being from the other-side of the dating vortex, as it were )

But I really hope you get that I've only been trying to help you become a more positive, laid-back person, and thus more attractive to women in general.

And I really do wish you the very best of luck with your new dating experiences, both now with this woman you've been messaging, and long-term, far into the future.

May 17, 2013

When I suggested it would be too confrontational to just ask her directly -

"Why are you single?"

I confess, it didn't occur to me that he could ask in the softer, less confrontational matter you put forward here. But I agree, asking her in that way, would be much better! And although she'd be nervous, I think she'd ultimately be more receptive to that approach.

So yes, if you feel up for it, give it a shot SD!

Oddly enough the direct "why are you single?" direct question is something I hadn't explored. That is one seriously good direct question that can be used on ANYONE you are attracted too once you got a bit of the chemistry and chase going. Lots of room for teasing and playfulness with all the possible answers.

May 17, 2013

woohoo is nailing it. his advice is dead on.

SD, you often say you can't see or make the connection between having (male) friends and getting a GF.

Well, it seems you are liking AND getting a lot out of Woohoo's posts. Imagine if you were friends with a guy like Woohoo in real life. Y'all could meet up, talk in person and get that instant, immediate feedback. Plus your friend would be able to see your body language and maybe even give you a few key tips that none of us can, simply because we CAN'T see your body language.

Wouldn't having a friend like Woohoo in real life be a good thing? He could not only give you pointers on how to act around cute girls, but it would just be plain healthy for ANYONE to have someone to talk with in real life.

And the healthier a person is, the more attractive they become. The more attractive they become, the better chance they will have of attracting someone.

Thank you sir. I'm here because in January I decided I'd go through the first six months of the year without sleeping with anyone. Gotta get some of this game out of my system. (Only 2 failures, Very high chance of failure this weekend though) Verification that I haven't lost it feels good and getting to articulate some of these interactions feels good. Working on a website (not dating related) and am trying to hammer an article or two on dating together for it.

Also of note. The why are you single question is a great get to know you question in person. If she tries and talks about Ex's repeat the question back slowly, "why are YOU single," Likely the joke will be her taste in men. Then you can tease her for being attracted to you and how you must be bad.

And to add to Teknoe. Body Language is a HUGE THING. I mean it, one thing I do now is try and REDUCE the number of words I use in conversation and communicate more through actions. Flirting, attraction and seduction does NOT require many words. Most the time you hang yourself with them so speak slowly and think out your words. Ironically you can NOT lawyer your words, make broader, more vulnerable statements that are not as accurate. Hell, most women think I'm a bit dumb. A good wingman is golden and will teach you a ton. Sometimes I miss certain details and a friend to point them out helps out enormously, you just have to be willing to be told you did something wrong when you did your best. Not too many guys can handle that.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Woohoo

May 17, 2013

"Why are you single?"

>> "Why did you tell me you were single?" <<

My apologies, what I meant to say was, the direct -

"Why did you tell me you were single?"

question may be too much... Doh!! *smacks self on forehead*

As in an email especially, I think that would sound too confrontational.

Oddly enough the direct "why are you single?" direct question is something I hadn't explored. That is one seriously good direct question that can be used on ANYONE you are attracted too once you got a bit of the chemistry and chase going. Lots of room for teasing and playfulness with all the possible answers.

But yes. I completely agree, if you have a playful flirty attitude and say these things in a light-hearted (and not in an overly serious or interrogatory way) then you can get away with saying almost anything!

May 17, 2013

But yes. I completely agree, if you have a playful flirty attitude and say these things in a light-hearted (and not in an overly serious or interrogatory way) then you can get away with saying almost anything!

Yep. In the right tone, almost anything

And be somewhat relentless. It takes guts, I know. But you can't back down and stop flirting with her. That means you've accepted your place as "friend". She either accepts you as "interested man", or she stops contacting you and telling you her man problems. It doesn't mean she has to date you, but you imply aren't going to pretend that you aren't attracted to her. Be good-natured, but relentless in keeping the tone flirty.

May 17, 2013

Yep. In the right tone, almost anything

And be somewhat relentless. It takes guts, I know. But you can't back down and stop flirting with her. That means you've accepted your place as "friend". She either accepts you as "interested man", or she stops contacting you and telling you her man problems. It doesn't mean she has to date you, but you imply aren't going to pretend that you aren't attracted to her. Be good-natured, but relentless in keeping the tone flirty.

Yeah. One thing I definitely agree with is DO NOT become her therapist or her shoulder to cry on. (Unless you are in some type of advanced stage of a relationship). If she starts talking about an Ex a simple, "yeah, don't wanna hear it" may make you sound like a jerk, just say it and move the topic to the next area.

May 17, 2013

Let me elaborate on tension a little bit. One of the biggest problems with feelings and emotions is that we often don't label them accurately or make assumptions about what they mean.

Ever get nervous around someone attractive? At some point this has HAD to have happened. That is "tension," here is the thing, that feeling is NOT the same nervous that I get doing work that is dangerous. That nervous is not the same as participating in a competition. It is its own special feeling.

Is that nervous good or bad? How you answer that depends entirely on your outcomes. If you have had dating success, you seek that strong feeling. When you are having failure you will fear that feeling and start to interpret it badly. It is the same feeling though. When I fell apart I began FEARING this feeling, when I am at my best I seek it.

Tension is that part that feels so good when you are hanging on each others words. When both people are experiencing this tension it is wonderful. On the other hand people who have less luck with dating begin to fear this. It becomes a bad emotion that causes them to do stupid things in front of the other person (the person good at flirting will simply be vulnerable, and laugh at these same behaviors enjoying their moment with the person) The person who is not used to the tension may find themselves nervous and even angry in its presence. The other person will see you as not attractive, and not experience "chemistry" due to this factor alone.

Tension does NOT mean unsafe. Women like "bad boys", not complete psychos. A woman must feel physically safe, but have an emotional vulnerability and respect for you. Look for rules to break, like a direct question and teasing. Someone mentioned putting someone on the spot with a question, that is GREAT behavior cause if you pace is right, take your time, and let the other person become vulnerable and tense, you will be able to break all that tension with a simple approval. They will have mad attraction.

Tension is good and your friend, but it probably feels like an enemy right now. That is why I warn people about humor. Done correctly you can seem very confident, on the other hand sarcasm, self-deprecation etc. are not sexy unless you truly are a massively respected man (ala Jon Stewart). NEVER diffuse the tension early on, that is the addictive feeling women get towards you. Finally be HONEST.

You DO NOT want to be her friend. I'm betting you have been down that path before. Did you learn anything? Like the fact YOU DO NOT want to be her friend. SAY IT! Hey, I wanna get to know you! Say it! I like how you just looked at me, I felt that! Say it!

A minute ago you talked about the smart thing to do, and you talked about friending her, when you DO NOT WANT THAT. Learn a lesson, and go for it and be honest with yourself. We all lie to ourselves, call that out. When you see others lie, call them out. You will be loved and appreciated as an exceptional man for these skills alone.

TENSION AND HONESTY. Get to know them well.

Great stuff here.

Ironically the only time I actually pulled this off was when I had absolutely no clue what I was doing, no intentions and no plan.

May 17, 2013

I feel like I'm out of my league with this girl. I know what I shouldn't do or say, but don't know what I should.

I used the services line and she seemed to get a kick out of it.

"It is and I will be ok. It just takes time. Haha offer your services??I just had my last final today! So my summer has already begun."

Honestly I'm getting a little tired of the messaging back and forth.

I was prepared for a negative end to the conversation. Usually when I express interest the girl tells me no and we stop talking. Now I don't even know what stage I'm on. She's probably enjoying the interaction more than I am.

May 17, 2013

I feel like I'm out of my league with this girl. I know what I shouldn't do or say, but don't know what I should.

I used the services line and she seemed to get a kick out of it.

"It is and I will be ok. It just takes time. Haha offer your services??I just had my last final today! So my summer has already begun."

Honestly I'm getting a little tired of the messaging back and forth.

I was prepared for a negative end to the conversation. Usually when I express interest the girl tells me no and we stop talking. Now I don't even know what stage I'm on. She's probably enjoying the interaction more than I am.

You are doing too much thinking right now.

Stop preparing for stuff, and expecting stuff (I'm prepared for a negative ending). Stop worrying about stages. We've established this is new territory. Accept it and embrace it. Trust me. Just continue to see where this goes - don't put too much stock into it.

May 17, 2013

Think of it as a game of chicken. Just keep going with it, pushing forward little by little. If someone is going to back down, it should be her. She'll let you know if and when you've gone too far, but shutting you down decisively. You don't view her as in your league, so you've got nothing to lose. Believe me, she won't even lose respect for you by flirting and giving it a shot. If anything, it will gain you respect (even if the answer is ultimately no).

May 17, 2013

You are doing too much thinking right now.

Stop preparing for stuff, and expecting stuff (I'm prepared for a negative ending). Stop worrying about stages. We've established this is new territory. Accept it and embrace it. Trust me. Just continue to see where this goes - don't put too much stock into it.

I'm annoyed because I wasn't able to prepare for it

Frankly I was ready to throw in the towel and once I got the hint I have a shot I'm like all "huh?" And of course she's being vague. She's giving me just enough to keep me engaged. But as I said earlier, I'm getting bored.

May 17, 2013

But as I said earlier, I'm getting bored.

If you're bored, up the ante.

"Come on over and let's get the celebration started!"

May 17, 2013

I'm annoyed because I wasn't able to prepare for it

Frankly I was ready to throw in the towel and once I got the hint I have a shot I'm like all "huh?" And of course she's being vague. She's giving me just enough to keep me engaged. But as I said earlier, I'm getting bored.

You're not meant to "prepare". This is where PUA always failed - routines and the like. And yes she's being vague - this is flirting between 2 single people, there's a grey area as always. You're bored? Tough . This is flirting - get used to it. Up the ante if you wanna turn up the heat.

May 17, 2013

I'm annoyed because I wasn't able to prepare for it

Frankly I was ready to throw in the towel and once I got the hint I have a shot I'm like all "huh?" And of course she's being vague. She's giving me just enough to keep me engaged. But as I said earlier, I'm getting bored.

When a woman is giving you just enough, especially repeatedly, you are in a difficult situation. You have to up the game. She is not going to propose you do something, you have to take that risk.

If she is leaving an opening take it. What you are afraid of is that she is NOT going to throw you the lifeline she is throwing you now. It means she is OPEN to your advances but they need to be more attractive. You are on the edge teetering between lover and friend, and you know it. That is why you are scared.

As men we are often in a bad situation in the sense we must take the lead, yet are expected to respect and treat women well. Making the opening move in a way you simply ignore rejection is brutal, the judgment, it is difficult to listen, have respect and treat women well in face of this situation.

Find something interesting to do with her. Something neither one of you know what your doing is a great idea too. (for the love of all things holy NOT DINNER AND A MOVIE and NOT a month away!)

Ask her straight "do you like (the activity), I'm going to do this soon and could use a partner in crime, but only if you have true grit!"

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Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

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