Attraction isn't relevant for friendships

[tman666]

Yup I asked her out. Saying something very similar to what you suggested.

 

It should have the same results as the puppy barbeque recipe.

 

Hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

 

At least you were honest, and at least you stepped up and overcame your own fear. If it doesn't turn into anything, so what? Either way, you've taken the first step in un-sticking yourself from a strange situation.

[Xinreeki]

 

Not to speak for Mme. Chaucer, but I think her statement was in reference to how some guys will act like they are just friends with a girl, even though they like her, because they're too big of a pussy to actually come onto her out of fear of offending her, fear of being rejected, or both.

 

In this situation, the girl may erroneously believe that the guy's interest in being friends is simple: he just likes being friends! Then, when it becomes clear (usually over a long period of time) to the guy that the girl isn't EVER going to make moves on him (because she doesn't see him in that light), the guy starts resenting her. As this feeling of resentment grows, it will eventually seep out and blow up, causing the girl to be completely blindsided and ultimately feeling betrayed by someone who she thought was her friend.

 

I know this process well, because I've performed this little maneuver myself (in the distant past).

 

 

The main reason guys hide feelings for female friends is because they are afraid that if they tell the girl, she will run away, which is usually what happens. Odds are if he does like the girl and truly values the friendship he wouldn't want it to end. So he gets stuck in a dilemma.

 

I agree with you that guys can be attracted to their female friends and still be great friends to them.

 

However, like tman666 said in the above, this all falls apart when the guy has no interest in maintaining the friendship after it becomes clear to him that his goal of cultivating a romantic relationship is futile.

 

If he is of this mindset, then when he does finally realize that his female "friend" is never going to return his romantic feelings, he will likely begin to foster greater and greater resentment towards her.

 

And when that resentment comes out, and he cuts off the "friendship", concluding to himself that it was a fruitless endeavor, it will make the "friendship" they had seem hollow and fallacious.

 

And in that eventuality, the woman will likely feel betrayed. As she will undoubtedly realize that the guy who she thought was her friend, gave up on her friendship, purely because, as he saw it, his "mission to date her" was over and thus he had no more use for her "friendship".

[somedude81]

It's a funny feeling not caring about the possibility of a rejection at all.

 

I think it's because I know I have no chance at all. It would be stupid to ask out Kate Upton and then hurt when she says no.

 

Now if only I could keep the feeling of indifference for all women.

[ThaWholigan]

It's a funny feeling not caring about the possibility of a rejection at all.

 

I think it's because I know I have no chance at all. It would be stupid to ask out Kate Upton and then hurt when she says no.

 

Now if only I could keep the feeling of indifference for all women.

A (not-so) simple matter of controlling one's own mind.

[somedude81]

LOL she replied.

 

------------

 

Here was my original message.

 

You know what XX

.

I think you're great and I'd definitely like to take you out on a date if you were single.

 

 

 

I've had this thought for a long time but I didn't want to make things awkward in class. I really liked talking to you I didn't want to lose that.

 

 

Her reply

 

that's so sweet of you, i'm just a chatter box that likes to help other people when i can

 

Then 5 minutes later she sent another message

 

though fun fact of the day: i actually broke up with my boyfriend last week. i had been planning on doing it for awhile, it was just mustering up the courage to finally do it. so right now i'm enjoying copious amounts of me time and time with friends. its been so nice to study and just worry about me and there's no other way of putting that and not sounding conceded lol

 

------------

 

Of course she gave me a non-answer which is pretty much a no

[ThaWholigan]

LOL she replied.

 

------------

 

Here was my original message.

 

You know what XX

.

I think you're great and I'd definitely like to take you out on a date if you were single.

 

 

 

I've had this thought for a long time but I didn't want to make things awkward in class. I really liked talking to you I didn't want to lose that.

 

 

Her reply

 

that's so sweet of you, i'm just a chatter box that likes to help other people when i can

 

Then 5 minutes later she sent another message

 

though fun fact of the day: i actually broke up with my boyfriend last week. i had been planning on doing it for awhile, it was just mustering up the courage to finally do it. so right now i'm enjoying copious amounts of me time and time with friends. its been so nice to study and just worry about me and there's no other way of putting that and not sounding conceded lol

 

------------

 

Of course she gave me a non-answer which is pretty much a no

"Conceded". She meant "conceited" .

 

Yeah, that was a no, but she seemed flattered. You need to have that kind of conviction every time you talk to girls though, even the ones you like. If we ignore all the other stuff going on with you and you say you just want a GF and that's the answer to all your problems, then you really should be a bit more forward about it. Actively doing stuff that facilitates you being able to have a GF - and that includes having a social circle but lets forget that.

 

If you start to like a girl, don't f*cking wait till you like her so unbearably that if you ask her out and she says no it's going to hurt like 12 stab-wounds to the torso. Once you start to feel there is an attraction, just start talking to em, play around a little and then ask them to do something with a view to asking them out on a date. Just start taking things forward a little, even pre-emptively.

[tman666]

Ok, you have your answer. She was pretty nice about it, but the message was clear. Props to you for trying! Now (and this is immensely important), ignore the fack out of her.

 

Go on your merry way, meet new people, do fun things, lift wheyts, keep busy, etc. There's a chance she'll notice the sudden vacuum and sort of "come back". Even then, make her work for your attention. Be friendly of course, jovial even, yet make it abundantly clear that you're very busy and content. If she wants to hang out, say "hey, I said I'd take you out for a good time/date! Let's do it!".

 

And hey, even if she doesn't talk to you again: go on your merry way, meet new people, do fun things, lift wheyts, keep busy, etc.

[Woohoo]

I feel like I'm trying to entertain a child.

 

Are women really all about "here we are now, entertain us?"

 

So attraction is all about putting on a show. Just being me isn't good enough.

 

I do try to make girls laugh and have a good time but I guess I'm just not doing it big enough.

 

Since my looks are blah, my personality and humor is the only thing that can be used to attract women. I'm also struggling with long term depression and don't even think I can make my personality extreme enough so women won't get bored.

 

I appreciate the advice Woohoo. I just need to figure out how I can use it.

 

Also of note. When you are having honest emotional communication it is not like entertaining. It is very vulnerable. This is the addictive part of a relationship. Study the use of silence and listening. These will help you immensely.

 

In my other post I mention that humor is important but in itself does not build attraction.

 

All people are naturally "big characters" when they are honest and are themselves. You don't have to make yourself a "bigger" version of yourself, it comes across as an act. You make yourself more you and you will just seem big. It is like an instrument playing with a deep groove. Something you can feel.

[ThaWholigan]

Also of note. When you are having honest emotional communication it is not like entertaining. It is very vulnerable. This is the addictive part of a relationship. Study the use of silence and listening. These will help you immensely.

 

In my other post I mention that humor is important but in itself does not build attraction.

 

All people are naturally "big characters" when they are honest and are themselves. You don't have to make yourself a "bigger" version of yourself, it comes across as an act. You make yourself more you and you will just seem big. It is like an instrument playing with a deep groove. Something you can feel.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

 

When I talk to girls, I don't suddenly become super extrovert life-of-the-party. I'm still me, just unashamedly so.

[KungFuJoe]

Hey, is it just me or did that girl leave an "opening"?

 

I mean...why a follow up message saying she is now single? If she was never planning on seeing you again, why even bother providing that information?

[ThaWholigan]

Hey, is it just me or did that girl leave an "opening"?

 

I mean...why a follow up message saying she is now single? If she was never planning on seeing you again, why even bother providing that information?

Good point. Really though, SD needs to plow through without letting it get to his head.

[somedude81]

Hey, is it just me or did that girl leave an "opening"?

 

I mean...why a follow up message saying she is now single? If she was never planning on seeing you again, why even bother providing that information?

I sure wish I knew.

 

Any ladies reading this thread might have a clue what's going through her mind?

[Xinreeki]

I sure wish I knew.

 

Any ladies reading this thread might have a clue what's going through her mind?

 

Well I'm not her, so of course I can't say for sure what she is thinking.

 

But I would say, that since she hasn't given you a definitive "No", in so many words, it may be her way of leaving the possibility of something between you developing open.

 

Equally she may have just dodged providing a blunt, "No, I'm not interested" response, because she is worried that would hurt your feelings.

 

Its hard to know for sure which one it is. But its best to try not to dwell on that too much, especially when you currently have only a very limited amount information to go on.

 

Instead, as others have recommended, I suggest you just try to continue on with your life, stay friendly towards her if she talks to you again and try to stay positive about the future, whether it happens to involve her or not.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Xinreeki

[somedude81]

Well I'm not her, so of course I can't say for sure what she is thinking.

 

But I would say, that since she hasn't given you a definitive "No", in so many words, it may be her way of leaving the possibility of something between you developing open.

 

Equally she may have just dodged providing a blunt, "No, I'm not interested" response, because she is worried that would hurt your feelings.

Its hard to know for sure which one it is. But its best to try not to dwell on that too much, especially when you currently have only a very limited amount information to go on.

 

Instead, as others have suggested, I recommend you just try to continue on with your life, stay friendly towards her if she talks to you again and try to stay positive about the future, whether it happens to involve her or not.

The bold is basically what I believe she is thinking.

 

So I will stay friendly towards her, and not try to pursue her in any way.

 

My last message which I sent to her a while ago basically contained an in-joke and also telling her to take some time or whatever. I'm hoping she won't reply.

[KungFuJoe]

Personally, I think the fact that she sent a FOLLOW UP message regarding her relationship status is VERY telling.

 

Had she just lumped all that info in her original email, it would have just seemed like she was giving an honest response. But the fact that she sent her original email, then actually thought about it and sent the follow up...means something compelled her to provide additional information.

 

I know that if I was interacting with someone who I had no interest in and she hinted that she would like to go out on a date, but wasn't obvious about it, I would play it off like I was ignorant in the hopes that the subject wouldn't come up again. I most DEFINITELY would not say something to actually get her hopes up by saying I was now single, if she thought I was seeing someone.

 

I dunno...unless this girl is a friend who you might see again, I don't see anything wrong with a follow up message asking her out straight up. I mean, what do you have to lose? If she's a friend or someone in your social circle, that's a different story.

[xxoo]

I think the "me time" theme was a gentle "no".

 

But it wasn't clear, and there is nothing wrong with pushing lightly for a date. "Let me know when you're bored from all that me time. I'd be happy to take your mind off your studies."

 

If she contacts you, assume she is doing so because she is receptive to a date. Push. Make her turn you down.

[Xinreeki]

Personally, I think the fact that she sent a FOLLOW UP message regarding her relationship status is VERY telling.

 

Had she just lumped all that info in her original email, it would have just seemed like she was giving an honest response. But the fact that she sent her original email, then actually thought about it and sent the follow up...means something compelled her to provide additional information.

 

I know that if I was interacting with someone who I had no interest in and she hinted that she would like to go out on a date, but wasn't obvious about it, I would play it off like I was ignorant in the hopes that the subject wouldn't come up again. I most DEFINITELY would not say something to actually get her hopes up by saying I was now single, if she thought I was seeing someone.

 

I dunno...unless this girl is a friend who you might see again, I don't see anything wrong with a follow up message asking her out straight up. I mean, what do you have to lose? If she's a friend or someone in your social circle, that's a different story.

 

I agree you may be right, and that may have been her intention, definitely seems plausible.

 

I suppose its all up to somedude81 now, whether he wants to take further action straight away, wait awhile, or wait for future signs that this girl really is into him.

 

Its his call. But yes, you may well be correct. As I said, I honestly couldn't call it one way or the other with the information available currently, but I can certainly see your point.

 

Whatever happens somedude81, just try and remember that it is not the end of the world if things don't work out with her. Now you have taken your first step in being more confident and outspoken about your feelings towards women, I'm sure you will have many more chances to "score" as it were. ... (even if I'm not really a fan of that term )

[somedude81]

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

[ThaWholigan]

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

Puts her on the spot a little bit - that can cause a problem.

[Xinreeki]

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

 

I wouldn't recommend that. It would sound too confrontational I think.

 

Best to go with a more subtle approach I would say, or else an approach that is more focused on positive things at least.

 

For example, maybe you could suggest a friendly meet up, or if you really want to be more direct, suggest an actual date you could take her on, a casual trip out to the cinema maybe. Something that is fun and not to be taken too seriously.

[joystickd]

If you had some male friends who actively date women, you might pick up some social tips by association. You'd see how they interact with women in a way other than as "just friends". You wouldn't be struggling blindly to figure out how it works.

He is a position like most people when we learn things. Most want to learn the cool stuff and forget the fundamentals. We all do it's a normal thing. For example basketball most don't care about learning fundamentals they want to learn the fingerroll or slam dunk. Hell martial arts they want to chop the wood or break bricks. Most focus on the end result because the fundamentals don't seem like it will help provide the end result. If you want him to understand he has to actually see the connection to get it logically. It's like learning chords and scale to rip that cool guitar solo with some two hand tapping like Van Halen. You have to learn fundamentals first

[ThaWholigan]

He is a position like most people when we learn things. Most want to learn the cool stuff and forget the fundamentals. We all do it's a normal thing. For example basketball most don't care about learning fundamentals they want to learn the fingerroll or slam dunk. Hell martial arts they want to chop the wood or break bricks. Most focus on the end result because the fundamentals don't seem like it will help provide the end result. If you want him to understand he has to actually see the connection to get it logically. It's like learning chords and scale to rip that cool guitar solo with some two hand tapping like Van Halen. You have to learn fundamentals first

I think you're both right. He needs both - friends and fundamentals.

[joystickd]

I think you're both right. He needs both - friends and fundamentals.

At the end of the day everyone that is frustrated that he doesn't get why he needs to make friends fails to understand themselves that logically no connection is made between friendship and girlfriend. In his mind it's two different things. There is a link still missing. Honestly on some level he is right. I had lots of friends when I went to college and still didn't have any success with women until 25. In high school I had friends. Hell I had lots of platonic female friends until 25.

[Woohoo]

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

 

Do it! If she is interested she will let you know. When ever people are put on the spot they feel nervous but a huge relief after they confess. She may even be ready to ditch him but is the type of girl who must always have a boyfriend.

 

"I'm getting mixed signals here, I misunderstood your relationship status, or if it is something else please explain." is a good way to put it. Repeat back to her exactly how she explained it as a question. She will agree with you, or correct you. Repeat it again with corrections until she simply agrees.

 

If she comes saying it is over etc. etc. you can hit her with "well, I think your cool and am happy your single(open to dating/whatever), their is a cool get together on Friday/Saturday/whatever and I'm out to have some fun. (use alleventsinmycity from facebook, find SOMETHING interesting, I've used options ranging from Women's Roller Derby to Art Shows to whatever strangeness I can find)

[xxoo]

Could I just ask her why she told me she was single? Or would that be "cheating?"

 

Bring up the subject, but you can do better than asking why. Insist that she's obviously flirting with you by disclosing her singledom.