Aedra Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I don't think you'll sound like a jerk, as long as you steer clear of the words "I don't want to be your friend". Just say something like, "hey, I think you're great and I'd love to take you on a date if you were single". You'll know from her reaction where it's going. If it doesn't head the way you want it to, just quietly distance yourself. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum. Agreed. I respect a guy that can honestly but nicely tell me he's not interested in friendship if I'm taken and go on his merry way, instead of pretending and wasting my energy on a fake friendship. Everybody wins that way.
Aedra Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I don't think you'll sound like a jerk, as long as you steer clear of the words "I don't want to be your friend". Just say something like, "hey, I think you're great and I'd love to take you on a date if you were single". You'll know from her reaction where it's going. If it doesn't head the way you want it to, just quietly distance yourself. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum. Agreed. I respect a guy that can honestly and politely tell me he's not interested in friendship if I'm taken and go on his merry way, instead of pretending and wasting my energy on a fake friendship. Everybody wins that way and it shows good character.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 You know, all this "friend zoning" is put forth as something that girls do that's bad to guys. But being a "fake friend" because you are wanting and hoping to poke a girl is just as bad. If you go there, you deserve the results.
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 You know, all this "friend zoning" is put forth as something that girls do that's bad to guys. But being a "fake friend" because you are wanting and hoping to poke a girl is just as bad. If you go there, you deserve the results. What is and how does one be a "fake friend?"
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 What is and how does one be a "fake friend?" Well, thousands of words in your threads here have dissected this very question, many times over. Why can't you answer it for yourself? Here's a hint: real friendships are not based upon expectations or ulterior motives on the part of either, or both, of the "friends." That is not friendship. No matter who's doing it, or in what gender combination of so-called friends.
tman666 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 What is and how does one be a "fake friend?" Not to speak for Mme. Chaucer, but I think her statement was in reference to how some guys will act like they are just friends with a girl, even though they like her, because they're too big of a pussy to actually come onto her out of fear of offending her, fear of being rejected, or both. In this situation, the girl may erroneously believe that the guy's interest in being friends is simple: he just likes being friends! Then, when it becomes clear (usually over a long period of time) to the guy that the girl isn't EVER going to make moves on him (because she doesn't see him in that light), the guy starts resenting her. As this feeling of resentment grows, it will eventually seep out and blow up, causing the girl to be completely blindsided and ultimately feeling betrayed by someone who she thought was her friend. I know this process well, because I've performed this little maneuver myself (in the distant past).
tbf Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 What is and how does one be a "fake friend?"Consider it from another perspective. Pretend that you're capable of advancing people in their careers. Someone befriends you with the specific purpose of career advancement but masks as a caring, close friend. Do you feel great about the friendship or do you feel betrayed and used? 1
xxoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 Fake friends because you are hiding that you are secretly pining for her (very different from simply being attracted to her, but setting your sights on other women). Presumably, if she's your friend, and you are crazy about woman X, you could talk to your friend about that. If SHE is woman X, that's getting in the way of real friendship.
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 My thoughts are that if a guy enjoys spending time with somebody, cares about her, does all the expected friend things, does his friendship became null and void just because he also wants to date her? Pretending do be a friend is when you don't care about the other person at all and just feed them lines or pretends to enjoy spending time with them just to get the chance to sleep with them. Does anybody think I actually do the later?
xxoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 My thoughts are that if a guy enjoys spending time with somebody, cares about her, does all the expected friend things, does his friendship became null and void just because he also wants to date her? Pretending do be a friend is when you don't care about the other person at all and just feed them lines or pretends to enjoy spending time with them just to get the chance to sleep with them. Does anybody think I actually do the later? It is a friendship on false pretenses if you are hiding that HUGE part of your feelings for her. When it is revealed, she'll feel uncomfortable and misled.
Mme. Chaucer Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 My thoughts are that if a guy enjoys spending time with somebody, cares about her, does all the expected friend things, does his friendship became null and void just because he also wants to date her? No, the friendship becomes null and void when the guy gets resentful because she does not want to date HIM. You've said many, many times that you have no conceivable use at all for women in your life whom you're not angling to date. So any "friendly" interactions you had with any of them would be fake. Anyway, your relationships with women that you describe as "friendships" really are / were not actual friendships, but I understand that you don't realize what real friends are to one another. Friendship runs deep, if it's true. I hope you experience it one day. 1
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 It is a friendship on false pretenses if you are hiding that HUGE part of your feelings for her. When it is revealed, she'll feel uncomfortable and misled. But is she actually being mislead? The main reason guys hide feelings for female friends is because they are afraid that if they tell the girl, she will run away, which is usually what happens. Odds are if he does like the girl and truly values the friendship he wouldn't want it to end. So he gets stuck in a dilemma.
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 No, the friendship becomes null and void when the guy gets resentful because she does not want to date HIM. You've said many, many times that you have no conceivable use at all for women in your life whom you're not angling to date. So any "friendly" interactions you had with any of them would be fake. Anyway, your relationships with women that you describe as "friendships" really are / were not actual friendships, but I understand that you don't realize what real friends are to one another. Friendship runs deep, if it's true. I hope you experience it one day. Remind me to never hire you to write my biography. It's amazing how you twist and warp my words.
xxoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 But is she actually being mislead? The main reason guys hide feelings for female friends is because they are afraid that if they tell the girl, she will run away, which is usually what happens. Odds are if he does like the girl and truly values the friendship he wouldn't want it to end. So he gets stuck in a dilemma. Yes. Because, yes, she would not hang out with you if she knew the depth of your true feelings. She hangs out with you because she thinks you view her as a friend. So you mislead her to keep her close. It doesn't make the reality different; it just keeps her in the dark, and makes her feel foolish and misled later.
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 Yes. Because, yes, she would not hang out with you if she knew the depth of your true feelings. She hangs out with you because she thinks you view her as a friend. So you mislead her to keep her close. It doesn't make the reality different; it just keeps her in the dark, and makes her feel foolish and misled later. It's amazing how women think. BTW this is exactly why I'm against having female friends while I'm single.
sillyanswer Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 You know, all this "friend zoning" is put forth as something that girls do that's bad to guys. But being a "fake friend" because you are wanting and hoping to poke a girl is just as bad. If you go there, you deserve the results. You're skipping ahead in the syllabus. This is Friendship 201, and we're still on Friendship 101. 2
tman666 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 It's amazing how women think. BTW this is exactly why I'm against having female friends while I'm single. Again, there's nothing wrong with having female friends, regardless of your relationship status, if that friendship is genuine and not based on a misleading pretense. This goes for any friendship, really. If you're the kind of guy that falls for any girl that shows him much attention (i.e., do you have a history of falling for your female friends?), then yeah, it might be best to avoid entering friendships with females. Anytime you try to turn a friendship into a romance, you run the risk of things getting awkward, which is does more times than not. The thing is, once you open that door, it's basically impossible to close it. That said, continuing to operate on the notion that you're just wanting to be her (strictly non-romantic) friend doesn't work either because your feelings will end up turning on you. Like xxoo said, this is basically just lying to her to keep her close. It's one of those things that stems from the emotion of fear, which can lead to acts of cowardice (the actual lying). When you say "can't a guy be friends with a girl and still want to date her?", the answer is no, not really. The very definition of friendship implies a certain level of trust. As a friend, she trusts that your actions are indicative of your intentions. If your actions are contradictory to your intentions, then you're just being phony. Now, if you rearrange the statement above to say "can't a guy be an acquaintance of a girl and still want to date her?", the answer is yes, of course. In this case, no assumption of intentions can be made. It could go either way. The "acquaintance stage" is really when you should be asking a girl out. If things have progressed to friendship, you've missed the boat.
Woohoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 QFT. SD, if you want anything to come out of this, this is the route you have to take. Even if she rejects you, it will be far less painful than hanging around, spending time and energy doing your best to "be her friend" (even though you want more), only to have her end up dating someone else. She will respect you more if you're honest with your desires (without being crude of course). If you DO want to date this girl, yet continue with the pretense of just "being her friend", then who is being dishonest? Of course, the other option is to decide in your heart of hearts that you're not attracted to her and do NOT want to date her, in which case, being friends is fine, in my humble opinion. Can't have it both ways though. I second this. If you play "just friends" it will just make you more bitter.
xxoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 It's amazing how women think. BTW this is exactly why I'm against having female friends while I'm single. What's amazing about it? If you have a good friend, and you have a major crush on some other person, wouldn't you share that information with your good friend? By keeping this huge secret about your feelings for her, you aren't being a good friend. You are letting her believe you feel one way about her, when actually you feel another. And if she knew you felt that way, she'd distance herself--because it is the right thing to do.
tman666 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 And if she knew you felt that way, she'd distance herself--because it is the right thing to do. I sort of have to protest about this statement. We don't know how she'll react until SD comes forward with that info and asks her out. More than likely, this is what she'll do because of all of the aforementioned reasons, but painting it at an impossible situation is sort of contradictory to us telling him to open up to her. Who knows? Maybe she IS attracted to him and wants him to ask her out! SD needs to figure that out for himself. Even if he gets rejected, he'll be getting rejected as a man, standing on his feet, rather than as a boy, simply hoping and wishing for something that he's too scared to try and make happen.
xxoo Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 You're right, she might not. But the fear that she will is what keeps him from being honest. He thinks he knows what she'd do if she knew the truth, so he misleads her. She could dump her boyfriend and date SD. Or she could allow him to orbit around her with full knowledge, and no intention of ever dating him. Telling the truth and seeing what she does would be revealing.
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) I just sent her a message that should scare her away. There really wasn't any point in maintaining contact and it would definitely not be good for me to have her on my mind. BTW, when I was talking about friendships with girls, I was not talking about this girl. I have never considered her to be a friend. Sure I really liked talking to her but I was also sure to maintain some distance and avoid becoming friends. Edited May 16, 2013 by somedude81
tman666 Posted May 16, 2013 Posted May 16, 2013 I just sent her a message that should scare her away. There really wasn't any point in maintaining contact and it would definitely not be a good for me to have her on my mind. BTW, when I was talking about friendships with girls, I was not talking about this girl. I have never considered her to be a friend. Sure I really liked talking to her but I was also sure to maintain some distance and avoid becoming friends. So does this mean you asked her out? Or that you sent her a message talking about the best way to cook and eat a puppy?
Author somedude81 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Posted May 16, 2013 So does this mean you asked her out? Or that you sent her a message talking about the best way to cook and eat a puppy? Yup I asked her out. Saying something very similar to what you suggested. It should have the same results as the puppy barbeque recipe. 2
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