TokyoDreams Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 New here, done some reading, am preparing self for the inevitable chewing out. But, I shall soldier on, as I need some advice (a kick in the butt? a hug? a stern talking to? help??). Ok, long story short (ish). Met MM in Japan about 2 and a half months ago. Found out he was indeed a MM shortly after meeting him. Having never even kissed a guy with a girlfriend, was all messed up and backwards. Spent way too much time together, he met my mom and all my friends, he loved them, they loved him. Of course. How delightfully cliche. (they all knew his MM status, even mommy, but think that we are one of those meant to be types) Anyways, needed a place to stay about 6 weeks ago as roomie was leaving and I couldn't keep the pad. So I moved in with MM. Already had my own key, so it seemed natural (I shall take a moment to let the tide of morality polce do their thing......... I think that's sufficient abuse for now). So moved in, spent every waking (and sleeping) moment together, played, laughed, all those wonderful things that we do with people we like. Not to sugar coat things too much though. We did have some very compelling coversations about truth and respect, and about how this whole situation was so strange and scary for both of us, but it would have been a worse sin to not be together. God, that sounds horrible, but for any of you who have been through this, I hope you understand. And those that haven't, well, I guess you'll have your say. We both knew this was f*cked up, and felt confused and shocked, but kept on. And believe it or not (I'm sure most of you won't), I felt bad for her. I know there are you who will call bull on that statement, but poo to you as I know how I feel, and I felt awful. At one point a friend of his asked what we were (he knew he was married) and we hummed and hawed, and finally came up with "best friends who are incredibly sexually attracted to one another". Awwwww.... how sweet.... choke me with a spoon... SO, he just left a week ago because he got stationed (air force) back home. Much crying and chatting and all that other wonderful crap was done. NOW, the kicker in this whole thing is, his wife has cheated on him. They've been together for 10 years, and she cheated on him about half way into it. They were thisclose to getting a divorce. He had found out about it, confronted her, she denied, but then eventually admitted.. And with his friend, to boot. Ouch. It was all very hectic, because she did not give him an answer about what they were going to do until the day before he was to leave the country. Again. The weird thing (or sweet thing) is that he feels that he is totally responsible for it, because he was never there. He said that he has just learned to live with it. Well, she has always had the option to travel with him and be by his side, but didn't. And even though they've been together for 10 years, they've maybe spent half of that actually physically with one another. He has never cheated on her before (save the cries of "BULLCRAP!!! HE'S A PROVEN LIAR!!" or "THAT'S WHAT THEY ALL SAY" or "YAH RIGHT! WHY WOULD HE TELL YOU THE TRUTH!! It's true. Believe it or not, not everyone who does something stupid is a completely bad and horrible person) and I'm not sure why he decided to be with me. His wife is beautiful, smart and successful, I am beautiful, smart and successful, so it's not a matter of going "up" or "down" on the social ladder. He will not tell his wife for a miriad of reasons (money, career, religion, her stability and mental health, he loves her, etc), but yet he has decided he wants to keep me in his life and see what happens. I personally have a HUGE problem with this. If he thinks they are going to save their marriage, he must be open and truthful with her. I have told him that we will never see each other again and he tells me to stop it, we will see each other sooner than later. He fears her throwing knives and going completely psycho. She apparently has a wee bit of a temper. Don't we all though. Is he going home to get a divorce? Is he going home to live (un)happily ever after? There is no kids, he put her through school, all their "things" are his, blah, blah, blah. Oh, they do have a dog. One other thing, all of his people here know whats up and are suprisingly supportive. He openly called me his girlfriend and was always very affectionate and attentive whether we were at home or in public. They think that we make each other better people and want to see this thing happen. So my question is, do I: a) be a buddy, be compassionate, understanding and loving through whatever may happen or b) try and get him to leave his wife and be with moi or c) GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE!! If it came down to it, I would love to be his friend, and would have have no problem giving up the physical (which is amazing) side of things to still chat and share stories. He is my best friend. I am his best friend. We are best friends together. (more fodder for the fire). But, is that cheating too? I believe the shrinks call it "an affair of the heart". Which one is worse? Physical or emotional? Is his marriage salvagable? Do I even want a relationship with him? Is it possible for these things to work? Or is every single case damned to hell with us OWs leading the pack? Is it even remotely possible that I have met The One, and it was just bad timing, but this could conceivably blossom into something wonderful and special? Am I on crack? Now bear with me, he is absolutely amazing. I know I know, all you naysayers and jilted lovers are going to scream "If he was so freakin wonderful he wouldn't be having an affair", BUT (but but), could we maybe, just maybe, have an isolated event in our midst? I am quite confused, hurting a lot, and am opening the door to your opinions. Keep in mind that I'm a HUMAN BEING (believe it or not), going through a miriad of emotions right now, so any mental and emotional abuse probably isn't the most effective communication. I welcome honesty, but try and be compassionate and intelligent about it please. Thank you for reading this far, and if nothing else, I hope you feel better at watching a sister (a daughter, a lover, a friend, a confident, a survivor) fall from grace with only her heart and soul telling her that this is indeed the right thing to pursue.
izzybelle Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 tokyo, no bashing from me. as an OW the heartache and gut wrenching feelings we go through i think are enough to deal with. and i know many believe we have no heart and no feelings for the others involved in our MM's lives, and perhaps some don't. but some of us, really do feel badly, but at the same time fall so madly in love that we just can't help ourselves. as i'm sure you know, or you wouldn't be here telling your story, there is no easy or "right" answer. ok, open the door for some bashing.... yeah the right thing to do would be to stay out of a married man's life. and then we get caught up in our own lives. he cheated, he wanted to be with us, he professed true feelings, etc. we've probably as a group heard it all. what's hard to decipher is what's just said by our MMs for the "moment" and what's the truth. that's what i'm currently searching for answers on. you're going to get a lot of "leave him alone to deal with his marriage" replies. i got them too when i first signed on months ago sobbing my situation to everyone. you'll get a lot of just break off all contact. and it will ultimately be up to you to decide what you need to do for YOU!!! although the statistics are definitely not in our favor, i think we all secretly hope and feel that our situation is different enough for us to be part of that small percentage that gets our MM in the end. but you need to do what's best for you. if that means hanging in there and being his buddy regardless of what happens then kudos to you. many say it's not possible, i have to believe in my heart that in some cases it is. many say we should just focus on finding unmarried men and leave the married ones alone. easier said then done, since in most cases they start out being the ones pursuing us. ok, more bashing, i know we should tell them to go away, they're married. my MM was open with me about his marriage from the start, or so i thought. convinced me it was over and that it would just be a matter of time until she left. not that he was leaving her but that she was leaving him and he was fine with it. not so, or at least since they're together again, i have to believe there was some lying to me going on throughout the whole thing. and that perhaps is the hardest part to find our way through. what do we believe and what don't we believe? and of course, that brings the ultimate question of why be involved in a relationship that starts out with that kind of questioning and doubt? yes, i believe every word he told me, and god knows i still want to believe every word he told me. but if it was all true... why did he choose to be with his wife? is this a situation you want to be mixed up in? you need to be HONEST with yourself!!! is he (friendship or otherwise) worth you possibly sacrificing much of your self-respect over? is he worth the potential heart ache that you may experience as a result of what could happen? for those of us who are involved in similar situations, we are all too well aware of the devastation that these types of relationships involve which i know is why some people bash us and tell us that we obviously have low self esteem to set ourselves up for the kind of hurt that we generally experience. whatever..... only you will be able to find the answers to some of the questions above and no doubt to the others that are running through your mind. but you need to be honest with yourself and try to ignore, as much as possible, what your heart may be telling you that it wants you to do. i wish there are magic words i could give you and i could say cut your losses while you still can and save yourself the heartache, but i can't judge what's best for you and for him.
Author TokyoDreams Posted September 24, 2004 Author Posted September 24, 2004 Izzy, you're a smart one. Jeebus, life is a freakin confusing ride!! I'm such a hopeless romantic, and you're right, I think that this one may be special. stupid stupid stupid. it even makes ME want to puke! Good point on the why start a relationship that starts with questioning and doubt. {is this a situation you want to be mixed up in? you need to be HONEST with yourself!!! is he (friendship or otherwise) worth you possibly sacrificing much of your self-respect over? is he worth the potential heart ache that you may experience as a result of what could happen?} NO! NO! NO! NO! ...... (yes???) {but you need to be honest with yourself and try to ignore, as much as possible, what your heart may be telling you that it wants you to do.} Ouch. Tough but true. HELLA tough, but so true.... Damn you for being wise and stuff. Well, he's left the country and I'm off to the beaches of Thailand for 6 months, so hopefully this shall make things much easier. I don't have to see him everyday, I don't have the risk of an uncomfortable situation, and hell, I'm only 26. Too young to be crying over spilt milk. If it's meant to be, it will happen. Things happen for a reason. wonk wonk wonk. Now if I can just get my bad self to BELIEVE these cliches. <sigh> love, life, decisions, responsibility. What a gigantic pain in the ass.
LoneStar49 Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 No bashing from me, either, Tokyo and yes, I do believe all that you wrote. There is a certain legion out there that believe the OW is totally devoid of feelings or something and that couldn't be further from the truth! I'm not going to go into much detail. Izzy said it all and better than I could have. I will take it a step further and say...choose option C) GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE!! Get out now before you are buried so deep that you feel like you've fallen into a deep, dark well and can't even claw your way out. I can honestly say that I've never loved anyone with the passion and intensity that I loved my now absent MM (and loved him on a level I didn't even know I was capable of), but I can also say with all honesty that if I had it to do over again from the get-go, I absolutely would not. I would simply say, "Knock on my door with your divorce papers in hand and then we can talk." Actually, I tried that in the very beginning, but thought "it just hurts so bad!" Yeah, right. Little did I know. Not only have I lived the past 3 1/2 years with this constant gnawing, gut-wrenching pain, but now, since it has been ended, I have a few more years of constant, gnawing, gut-wrenching pain to look forward to. Some happiness? Sure, sprinkled here and there. But not enough to sustain. Picture a cupcake with those little colorful sprinkles on top. The cupcake is the pain. The colorful sprinkles are the happiness. Not a good trade-off. Do I feel sorry for the wife? Ummmm....not really. She had a part in this, too. I'm certain she is feeling much like that cupcake, too, for her own reasons. Unfortunately, most of us, no matter how much advice we seek, will not really take that advice and will proceed on with whatever feels good to us right now. I did. I'm going to recommend something to you that isn't often recommended to the OW. Go get counseling for yourself. Pronto! Find out why you would even consider placing yourself in a perpetual "second best" position with a MM. Shore up your defenses. Do whatever it takes to make yourself feel too valuable for what most likely is waiting around the bend for you if you proceed with an affair. I wish to God someone had given me that advice a few years ago and then...I wish I would have taken it. Probably wouldn't have then. Like so many...I thought we had a "connection" that would never be broken.
amerikajin Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 Is he going home to get a divorce? No "bashing" from me, but just a question: why would he divorce when he already has what he wants?
whichwayisup Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 No bashing here, I'll leave that up to others. I'm not up for it today, I feel TOO GOOD today and I've honestly been feeling like dog poo for abit, so I don't want to go there anyways!! This post is about you not me...lol... Anyways, you seem honest and open about what you feel as well so does he. Just wait it out, see what happens. I guess you nailed it, if it is meant to be, it will happen. The fact that she cheated too plays a factor, but him not telling her cuz he's scared of her is pure BS. I am not doubting what he feels for you at all, cuz from what you have told me he seems to really love ya....What I am saying is he is taking the easy way out by not allowing her to make a decision that she gave him way back when she cheated. She told him, and they worked it out. No kids, just a dog...If they really are inlove they will stay together....Do they want kids together?? Where will you stand if he says one day, hey I love ya and all but my wife wants to have a child with me....That is gonna really hurt you...And someone mentioned the fact that your'e in it deep, yes you are, but if you stay around I think you're gonna need some therapy to get over him if he doesn't choose you. Don't believe that you can be bestfriends after this either....You will never find anyone, your mind will want to but your heart will say otherwise and in that situation, sorry to say, but the heart will rule out the mind everytime!! Hope you're doing OK though. Hang in there.
Mr Spock Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 So what, were you the revenge affair then? Stake your claim to him. You've got nothing to lose at this point. Call the house, and ask to speak with him. If he had no problem acknowledging the relationship there he shouldn't at home. Find out what's going on, pronto or you'll destroy yourself with the agonizing. Don't hem and haw. Find out if there is a future. And if he doesn't want to acknowledge the relationship, he's not leaving her, so hang up that phone and move on. Please remember that you and your relationship were a departure from the reality that is his life. Speak now, or forever hold your peace sort of thing. Get going.
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