My journey--a read for the Nice Guys

May 5, 2013

I was very much a Nice Guy growing up. I didn't date in high school, didn't date much in college, and from 21 to 29.5, yes, a contiguous block of 8.5 years in my "prime", I went on 3 dates total. Yes, 3 DATES total. I didn't date 3 women, I went on 3 dates.

This was because I was somewhat socially awkward and also because I was in a male-dominated field. Anyway, my dating life was unacceptable to me so I was going to do whatever it took to change it.

I did a lot of approaches. I got into PUA which didn't solve everything but it did set me in a good direction. The big thing I learned was that I needed to be asking more of myself and my life in general. I had to start pushing my comfort zone, not just doing approaches but also in other areas. I learned to surf. I got into great physical shape. I travelled by myself and made a point of making friends while I was there. I developed platonic relationships with people who turned out to become very close friends. Some of these platonic relationships were with girls who turned me down for dating but who were awesome people.

I want to emphasize that I started asking more of myself and in life in general. I have a job that pays well but that isn't as emotionally satisfying or that doesn't give me the sense of contribution that I was looking for. The old me would have just accepted that as my lot in life. The new me is expanding himself. I am training to be a personal trainer and teach group exercise classes. This is for starters. See I want to develop into a leader who helps other people achieve THEIR goals. I am also writing a blog and taking on some side projects.

In the meanwhile I come on here and ask for feedback. I definitely don't have this dating thing figured out, but I do take responsibility for things not working out the way I wanted them to. I acknowledge and learn from my mistakes. That I think is a big difference between the guys who succeed from those guys who just come on here and whine.

In between all this I had a couple longer relationships. I met a girl and we dated for 3 months. We broke up. I met another girl and we dated for 2 years.

My point is that most of this change occurred after I turned 30. You can have the life you want guys, if you are willing to work for it.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Imajerk17

May 5, 2013

Sounds pretty familiar except I've always been fortunate to make a living doing what I love to do.

The only real surprise is how much more comfortable and peaceful being alone is now, versus how I felt a generation ago. Doing the relationship/marriage thing brought some resolution to those dynamics in a way I wouldn't have envisioned prior. Such is the process of life. Good luck in your pursuits and thanks for sharing your story.

May 5, 2013

I was very much a Nice Guy growing up. I didn't date in high school, didn't date much in college, and from 21 to 29.5, yes, a contiguous block of 8.5 years in my "prime", I went on 3 dates total. Yes, 3 DATES total. I didn't date 3 women, I went on 3 dates.

This was because I was somewhat socially awkward and also because I was in a male-dominated field. Anyway, my dating life was unacceptable t

I did a lot of approaches. I got into PUA which didn't solve everything but it did set me in a good direction. The big thing I learned was that I needed to be asking more of myself and my life in general. I had to start pushing my comfort zone, not just doing approaches but also in other areas. I learned to surf. I got into great physical shape. I travelled by myself and made a point of making friends while I was there. I developed platonic relationships with people who turned out to become very close friends. Some of these platonic relationships were with girls who turned me down for dating but who were awesome people.

I want to emphasize that I started asking more of myself and in life in general. I have a job that pays well but that isn't as emotionally satisfying or that doesn't give me the sense of contribution that I was looking for. The old me would have just accepted that as my lot in life. The new me is expanding himself. I am training to be a personal trainer and teach group exercise classes. This is for starters. See I want to develop into a leader who helps other people achieve THEIR goals. I am also writing a blog and taking on some side projects.

In the meanwhile I come on here and ask for feedback. I definitely don't have this dating thing figured out, but I do take responsibility for things not working out the way I wanted them to. I acknowledge and learn from my mistakes. That I think is a big difference between the guys who succeed from those guys who just come on here and whine.

In between all this I had a couple longer relationships. I met a girl and we dated for 3 months. We broke up. I met another girl and we dated for 2 years.

My point is that most of this change occurred after I turned 30. You can have the life you want guys, if you are willing to work for it.

Sounds pretty similar to my story too. The only difference is you came away unscathed. I came away bitter and scarred.

Honestly, if you can deal with women thinking you're an awesome guy but turning you down anyway and on top of that getting bluntly rejected at clubs and bars, watching women you like drool over idiotic players, and on top of that reading about the ridiculous amount of attention women get on online forums, and still harbor no resentment, you're a better man than me.

I do think it's possible to be unsuccessful and not be bitter. It takes a certain mentality and approach. Something young men should be taught at an early age.

May 5, 2013

I was very much a Nice Guy growing up. I didn't date in high school, didn't date much in college, and from 21 to 29.5, yes, a contiguous block of 8.5 years in my "prime", I went on 3 dates total. Yes, 3 DATES total. I didn't date 3 women, I went on 3 dates.

This was because I was somewhat socially awkward and also because I was in a male-dominated field. Anyway, my dating life was unacceptable to me so I was going to do whatever it took to change it.

I did a lot of approaches. I got into PUA which didn't solve everything but it did set me in a good direction. The big thing I learned was that I needed to be asking more of myself and my life in general. I had to start pushing my comfort zone, not just doing approaches but also in other areas. I learned to surf. I got into great physical shape. I travelled by myself and made a point of making friends while I was there. I developed platonic relationships with people who turned out to become very close friends. Some of these platonic relationships were with girls who turned me down for dating but who were awesome people.

I want to emphasize that I started asking more of myself and in life in general. I have a job that pays well but that isn't as emotionally satisfying or that doesn't give me the sense of contribution that I was looking for. The old me would have just accepted that as my lot in life. The new me is expanding himself. I am training to be a personal trainer and teach group exercise classes. This is for starters. See I want to develop into a leader who helps other people achieve THEIR goals. I am also writing a blog and taking on some side projects.

In the meanwhile I come on here and ask for feedback. I definitely don't have this dating thing figured out, but I do take responsibility for things not working out the way I wanted them to. I acknowledge and learn from my mistakes. That I think is a big difference between the guys who succeed from those guys who just come on here and whine.

In between all this I had a couple longer relationships. I met a girl and we dated for 3 months. We broke up. I met another girl and we dated for 2 years.

My point is that most of this change occurred after I turned 30. You can have the life you want guys, if you are willing to work for it.

It's nice to read a positive "nice guys" post for a change. I know I've slagged off PUA theory on this board at times, but that probably has more to do with some of the people promoting it (and the way they promote it) more than anything else. There's nothing wrong with somebody wanting to boost their social confidence and improve their interactions with the opposite sex. It's just that it can get worrying when you see PUA being touted as a panacea for people who have a major problem that goes way beyond mild shyness.

I get a little depressed when I hear about men doing things purely to improve their standing with women. Whether it's playing music, sport or focusing on academic accomplishments - these pastimes should bring their own intrinsic rewards, with impressing the opposite sex being a happy side effect. It sounds as though things began to improve for you when you started to see how much enjoyment there is to be had out of life beyond simply getting dates/getting laid.

May 5, 2013

Sounds pretty similar to my story too. The only difference is you came away unscathed. I came away bitter and scarred.

Honestly, if you can deal with women thinking you're an awesome guy but turning you down anyway and on top of that getting bluntly rejected at clubs and bars, watching women you like drool over idiotic players, and on top of that reading about the ridiculous amount of attention women get on online forums, and still harbor no resentment, you're a better man than me.

I do think it's possible to be unsuccessful and not be bitter. It takes a certain mentality and approach. Something young men should be taught at an early age.

The thing you have to realize is that dating is intrinsically "unfair" for both genders. There are things that spark attraction that have little to do whether someone is actually a good person (whatever that means) or not.

For us men, so much of our attraction for women is based on looks. A woman could have a great career and spend her weekends saving puppies and delivering meals to everyone's grandmothers but if she doesn't have looks, dating probably is just going to be a rough ride for her.

For all she has going for her, she'll end up getting passed over time after time by guys for the prettier girls who are a lot more shallow. On the dates she does go on, the guy will often be caught checking out other girls and she will be spending time wondering how she should handle it, a problem that her physically prettier friends don't have to deal with. It is what it is.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Imajerk17

May 5, 2013

For us men, so much of our attraction for women is based on looks. A woman could have a great career and spend her weekends saving puppies and delivering meals to everyone's grandmothers but if she isn't at all pretty, dating is just going to be a rough ride for her.

I've been watching such an example for awhile now and, objectively, she's pretty darned good looking for a 60 yo. Divorced 15 years, takes care of a CP adult son, runs marathons and is pretty much a perfect example of a 'nice girl'. She's a friend of my best friend's wife. Secure, confident and in charge of her life. Retired too, already, so financially secure. With all that, she doesn't give off the 'mating' vibe. My read is that she's happy with her life as it is and having a man (meaning romantic interest) isn't of real interest to her. I find myself nodding because that's how I feel now too. So, we've known each other for a couple years and that's my assessment. She did make me a nice macrame for my birthday last year. She does that for most of her friends. When I look at her, that's probably how I appear to women, hence few find me attractive. When I was unhappily married, I had a more 'desperate' vibe about me and it was a female magnet. Sorry, pass. Life is so much 'nicer' now.

May 5, 2013

It's nice to read a positive "nice guys" post for a change. I know I've slagged off PUA theory on this board at times, but that probably has more to do with some of the people promoting it (and the way they promote it) more than anything else. There's nothing wrong with somebody wanting to boost their social confidence and improve their interactions with the opposite sex. It's just that it can get worrying when you see PUA being touted as a panacea for people who have a major problem that goes way beyond mild shyness.

I get a little depressed when I hear about men doing things purely to improve their standing with women. Whether it's playing music, sport or focusing on academic accomplishments - these pastimes should bring their own intrinsic rewards, with impressing the opposite sex being a happy side effect. It sounds as though things began to improve for you when you started to see how much enjoyment there is to be had out of life beyond simply getting dates/getting laid.

IMO, pickup CAN be good, if used correctly.

What people read about on forums are generally just guys that follow particular "gurus" and don't really have much experience with women. These "gurus" basically just take advantage of vulnerable men and are not very good with women themselves (not all of them, but many).

Some of the underlying principles and strategies are good, but you really have to weed through the nonsense (an example of nonsense would be negging).

OP is an example of someone that used PUA the right way and truly improved himself. He broadened his life significantly and basically became a different person. I'm also someone that used it in this way and am enjoying the fruits of my labor (I got into it way earlier though....I read my first PUA book when I was 14 and got hardcore into it when I was 20....so I'm spending my 20s with various women in my life).

It's an awesome way for natural introverts and intelligent guys that have trouble understanding social skills to turn things around for themselves.

May 5, 2013

Cheers. You're far from a jerk and would ask for "special dispensation" to change your name to "Iamwise17". I walked a similar path although from my mid 20's to 30 was in a live-in relationship. But at 30 I started to lose weight, stop smoking, start dressing, get into a life-style that exposes me to people and take risks in spite of my tendency to blush. I often extol the effectiveness of today's social anxiety meds which relives the "fight or flight" machine gun that fire butterflies into the gut but I didn't turn to those until years after I had already challenged myself by throwing myself into positions where the more I did it, the less butterflies I had. I actually found that there is "no one minding the store"--meaning you can really go far without needing anyone's permission if you make sure to bring value and make it abundantly clear without "selling" that you're worth something to others. Every platonic relationship can by nature bridge you to someone they know who might just be good for you. I think your post is a winning formula. Refreshing to see.

May 5, 2013

For all she has going for her, she'll end up getting passed over time after time by guys for the prettier girls who are a lot more shallow. On the dates she does go on, the guy will often be caught checking out other girls and she will be spending time wondering how she should handle it, a problem that her physically prettier friends don't have to deal with. It is what it is.

...until these same guys get burned big time by the shallow pretty one(s)...

Then they choose to either grow up and base their feelings on other things... or they choose to stay stuck in a rather adolescent stage being driven solely by hormones.

I'd say for guys over 30 and single, it's about 50/50. I weed 'em out early... even though lots say I'm above average in looks myself. I don't want a man who is driven by looks. Just don't.

May 5, 2013

IMO, pickup CAN be good, if used correctly.

What people read about on forums are generally just guys that follow particular "gurus" and don't really have much experience with women. These "gurus" basically just take advantage of vulnerable men and are not very good with women themselves (not all of them, but many).

Some of the underlying principles and strategies are good, but you really have to weed through the nonsense (an example of nonsense would be negging).

OP is an example of someone that used PUA the right way and truly improved himself. He broadened his life significantly and basically became a different person. I'm also someone that used it in this way and am enjoying the fruits of my labor (I got into it way earlier though....I read my first PUA book when I was 14 and got hardcore into it when I was 20....so I'm spending my 20s with various women in my life).

It's an awesome way for natural introverts and intelligent guys that have trouble understanding social skills to turn things around for themselves.

Exactly - and honestly you can stay introverted but still know how to have a vibrant social life. Some people need to find out what works for them and run with it, even if initially they may want to be something else.

I will never be the uber-hot model type of guy that oozes sex effortlessly like some of the guys I've known, but I'm comfortable being what I already am and then some . Just like my bro has the gift of the gab when it comes to girls - his boldness only works for me when the iron is hot as hell .

May 5, 2013

The thing you have to realize is that dating is intrinsically "unfair" for both genders. There are things that spark attraction that have little to do whether someone is actually a good person (whatever that means) or not.

For us men, so much of our attraction for women is based on looks. A woman could have a great career and spend her weekends saving puppies and delivering meals to everyone's grandmothers but if she doesn't have looks, dating probably is just going to be a rough ride for her.

For all she has going for her, she'll end up getting passed over time after time by guys for the prettier girls who are a lot more shallow. On the dates she does go on, the guy will often be caught checking out other girls and she will be spending time wondering how she should handle it, a problem that her physically prettier friends don't have to deal with. It is what it is.

I will agree that not many have it perfect, but not everybody struggles as to not have any relationships for a whole decade of their prime, and have been rejected by several people who respect and like them, just 'not in that way'.

That describes more you and me, though I don't know your specific circumstances. I think it's admirable that you are able to have such a positive outlook. Will that attract women? Doubt it. But a tangential point, really.

The trick is ... if you are one of the more 'unfortunate' souls in dating, man or woman, you need a way to approach the game so that you don't get all bitter and bent out of shape.

May 5, 2013

I remember a woman in her 30's and all she wanted to talk about is sex most of the time. I tried to ignore most it. Eventually we met and she didn't even get near me but I wasn't the one who wanted or start talking about sex.

After meeting her she started talking about sex again when she wanted to be friends ok. I told her I wasn't comfortable talking about sex and she disappeared.

It didn't matter to me I had other options. Now I won't even to talk to a woman who brings up sex for whatever reason. It's not just guys that are creepy and weird.

LOL. Dude I have met girls exactly like that. There was a girl that used to hang out with my old crew sometimes. She would sit down at a bar next to someone she just met and talk about how she liked giving blowjobs. Huh? And again, she was one who would constantly gripe that she couldn't find a good man. She was early 30's.

May 5, 2013

I remember a woman in her 30's and all she wanted to talk about is sex most of the time. I tried to ignore most it. Eventually we met and she didn't even get near me but I wasn't the one who wanted or start talking about sex.

After meeting her she started talking about sex again when she wanted to be friends ok. I told her I wasn't comfortable talking about sex and she disappeared.

It didn't matter to me I had other options. Now I won't even to talk to a woman who brings up sex for whatever reason. It's not just guys that are creepy and weird.

She wanted you to be a man and bang her, not ignore her.... /facepalm

May 5, 2013

She wanted you to be a man and bang her, not ignore her.... /facepalm

Sleeping with the wrong woman can often be more trouble than it is worth.

May 5, 2013

No she didn't she made that clear when we met. I had women flirting with me anyways in IRL. This why I don't do the OLD crap, people act one way behind a computer and differently face to face. I wouldn't have had sex with her anyways. She always take about her ex hubby which is a turn off.

edited------------

May 8, 2013

Read a few of the threads today and to be honest I am shaking my head. The struggling dudes will keep on struggling because they won't take any responsibility for how they can improve their dating situation. That is it.

If you are one of the few guys who IS willing to take responsibility and do the work, life is (mostly) really really sweet. You will feel that as a guy you really do have a lot of power.

June 7, 2013

I just felt this thread deserved a bump. Not to thump my chest and imply I'm this rock star (I'm not) or that I have it all figured out (I don't!).

I get "rejected" more than any other guy at LS. Seriously I talk to a lot of women and 75% of them just aren't into me. That's a lot of rejections. Thing is now I kept plugging away and now I get my share of yeses too. Including maybe a girl in my social circle who I had thought of as out of my league and who originally wasn't that into me (looks??) but who is coming around (personality?). You can make it if you want to make it.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Imajerk17

June 7, 2013

Well Ive seen plenty of hotties much older than 40... Other than that I agree with you.

The problem with the Struggling Fellas is how they focus on what they don't have (e.g., "looks"). What they forget is that self-pity is extremely unattractive. And that having the gumption to overcome obstacles is very attractive. Instead they ought to be grateful for what they do have including having a lifestyle that affords them the luxury of coming online. Stop the whining!

Edited June 7, 2013 by Imajerk17

June 7, 2013

Well Ive seen plenty of hotties much older than 40... Other than that I agree with you.

The problem with the Struggling Fellas is how they focus on what they don't have (e.g., "looks"). What they forget is that self-pity is extremely unattractive. Instead they ought to be grateful for what they do have including having a lifestyle that afgords them the luxury of coming online. Stop the whining!

Hard to be grateful when the only thing I have is this computer that I'm using that I don't even own.

Clothing? 2 pairs of pants, a bunch of plain white shirts, a $20 interview outfit, and 1 pair of shoes that I had to buy due to my last pair having 4 holes in it.

The only way I'm going to anywhere social during the night is if I stay stranded outside until tomorrow morning.

I don't know about you but I find it hard to be grateful for this. Going online is hardly something worth being happy about.

June 7, 2013

Hard to be grateful when the only thing I have is this computer that I'm using that I don't even own.

Clothing? 2 pairs of pants, a bunch of plain white shirts, a $20 interview outfit, and 1 pair of shoes that I had to buy due to my last pair having 4 holes in it.

The only way I'm going to anywhere social during the night is if I stay stranded outside until tomorrow morning.

I don't know about you but I find it hard to be grateful for this. Going online is hardly something worth being happy about.

And yet you have time to post 1000 times on Loveshack since February. At a few minutes a post, that's a 40-hour workweek right there.

Not hating on you or dismissing your situation but are you sure coming on here talking over and over again about how hard your situation is is the best use of your time?

June 7, 2013

logically how do us guys have more power by taking responsibility? and I know I am correct that women do not have to take any responsibility for their lives

^^^^^^What?

June 11, 2013

Read a few of the threads today and to be honest I am shaking my head. The struggling dudes will keep on struggling because they won't take any responsibility for how they can improve their dating situation. That is it.

If you are one of the few guys who IS willing to take responsibility and do the work, life is (mostly) really really sweet. You will feel that as a guy you really do have a lot of power.

This is where I've always disagreed with you.

You can accept responsibility while recognizing that you can't change anything. A broke man who owes child support for 15 kids can recognize that it's his responsibility to provide for them, while not being able to...

June 12, 2013

I understand where the OP is coming from.

I got rejected a bunch of times, until I realized it was my own fault for being lazy. Then I got up off my patoot and started asking people questions. I was surprised at the number of straight answers I got.

June 12, 2013

See guys? All you have to do is change everything about yourself. Then you can find a girl who will love you for who you are.

June 12, 2013

I just felt this thread deserved a bump. Not to thump my chest and imply I'm this rock star (I'm not) or that I have it all figured out (I don't!).

I get "rejected" more than any other guy at LS. Seriously I talk to a lot of women and 75% of them just aren't into me. That's a lot of rejections. Thing is now I kept plugging away and now I get my share of yeses too. Including maybe a girl in my social circle who I had thought of as out of my league and who originally wasn't that into me (looks??) but who is coming around (personality?). You can make it if you want to make it.

Oh, I bet I have you beat pretty nicely.

75% ain't bad. Mine is more like 99%. Like really. But you know, whatever. It is what it is.

I think your attitude is great.

However, my problems stem more from rejection and specific rejections in particular from women I really liked. They're deep ingrained in me. That's why I say if I had handled things differently, I'd be a different person right now. Just like you see a female posters here who have been burned by men so badly and often, they're bitter about it.

Perhaps you have some tips on how to handle deep seated issues from rejection.

I know other people just say "STFU and stop being a p@ssy. Rejection is nothing."

It's not that easy though.

Edited June 12, 2013 by JuneJulySeptember

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