Author Pompeii Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 How about the humility to accept criticism and learn from others, instead of always being disagreeable? That is not a part of the equation of female attraction so my perceived "disagreeableness" is not a factor in this conversation. Why do you discount PUA? Mystery provides excellent philosophy regarding female attraction. Your revelation is very old news. Why do it the hard way? Because its bull****. Because it's snake oil. It's a bunch of suckers cheating other suckers out of their money. Most of those PUA "gurus" can't get women and if they do, they're not very attractive nor do they have any semblance of self-esteem and/or self-worth. Most of them throw around "alpha" and "beta" like a baseball without knowing what it means. Let's not even get into the terminology. HB? DHV? "negs"? Are they playing Dungeons and Dragons? Or maybe World of Warcraft? C'mon. The entire premise is a joke. What Mystery talked about was nothing revolutionary, any pop psychology book could have told you that.
Author Pompeii Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 Face, body, attractive personality, interesting hobbies, intelligence, fun to be around and spend time with, good career, good character, charismatic, social skills. Not necessarily in that order. The order of importance will vary among women, but this is basically what attracts them. Pretty straight-forward, no mystery really. Still, it doesn't seem like enough. You would think that these would be automatic triggers but even these are no guarantee anymore. Women have their own careers, their own money, etc now so those things are no guarantee. I've known girls who say that a guy with a hot body is a dime a dozen. What is an "attractive personality"? "Interesting hobbies"? What is charisma? It's such an intangible thing that its so hard to nail down. You're either charismatic or you're not. 1
carhill Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Does anyone know the other pieces to female attraction, so I can continue to construct this theory further. You'll find yourself adding to this theory throughout life, as it is ever-changing. My theory is that there is no theory which can adequately explain the vagaries of human psychology in romance. I've come to accept female attraction as a force and concept outside of my understanding and control and have moved on to other things in life.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Female attraction is actually simple (but overly complicated on this and other forums). "Spark" - just get them turned on "Chemistry" - this is a reflection on the guy's game, personality, and looks These words were created as a kind of cosmic meaning (to me, they go hand-in-hand with astrology). However, once you understand what they really mean, it's easy to unlock and manipulate it. 1
BluEyeL Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Female attraction is actually simple (but overly complicated on this and other forums). "Spark" - just get them turned on ". Yes, but the key is: do you know HOW to turn them on? I don't mean "you", I mean in general.
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Yes, but the key is: do you know HOW to turn them on? I don't mean "you", I mean in general. I've found that most women have similar triggers. Most like a combination of intelligence, dominance, and confidence. My deep understanding of these concepts is one of the primary reasons why I've dated so many women where I'm "not their type." Doesn't matter. When you do the right things, you're everybody's type. 1
Author Pompeii Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 Regarding your 2nd paragraph, I can comfortably say I know how it feels to be the oddball in social interactions. I don't know if I can say I was ever dull. How do you think you're dull? I mean, do you not believe that you can cultivate something exciting? Well, I guess "dull" was the wrong word to use. I guess I should have said "I fail to make an impact". The guys who I see have the most success with women are the ones who stir her emotions like a pot. I know I sound like a broken record here because I've said this many times in many threads, but its true. I fail to do that. When I'm talking with other guys, I find it much easier to engage in rapport than with females. I find that with girls, I have to struggle and grasp at conversation topics and even then, it seems safe and half-hearted. I've gotten better compared to freshmen year but still I'm nowhere near the level of my friends. Some of my friends automatically get them laughing and attracted to their every word. I can't do that. I don't think I've ever given a girl a "wow" reaction before. So you're an introvert, generally. Re the PUA thing....from what I've seen of PUA theory it often seems to rely on taking shy, introverted men and transforming them into the very opposite. I think some PUA theory could be of help to more introverted men, in terms of getting them into "party mode" for attractive female attention at the kind of noisy social get togethers which introverts don't tend to do very well in by nature. Within reason, though. I'm a believer in "know thyself, and be true to thyself". If a bit of PUA helps to bring you out of yourself and be more sociable then fine. If you're a natural introvert then flooding your life with outings to bars, parties etc in order to get practice in putting on a more extrovert face and chatting up endless women with that "it's a numbers game" approach seems like the kind of thing that is doomed to failure - resulting in a person becoming confused about who they actually are - or even destructively dismissive towards/contemptuous of that more introverted side of themselves. There are positives you shouldn't overlook to your more introverted side. Being introverted doesn't mean you're an oddball. It just means that you don't enjoy crowded social events to the extent that more extroverted people do. Pogostick mentions Mystery...but how many men would actually want to be like Mystery? How many normal, sane women out there would want to deal with Mystery in any context beyond having a laugh with him at a party? Men like that provide a focus at social events, and that's quite a good thing for everybody. It's like....speaker's corner in London. You get these extreme extroverts/people who are a bit insane in their militant approach yelling from a soap box. Few people would want to get their lives tangled up with one of the strange people yelling on Speaker's Corner - but they're fun to listen to and occasionally heckle. They promote an atmosphere in which people are more likely to engage with eachother - maybe in some cases at the expense of the speaker (because they're laughing at him). You don't need to be that noisy, extrovert (or faux extrovert) guy with the box of magic tricks at a party. Just learn to take advantage of what he's providing at the party - ie a gathering point for people. It might well be that he'll find a girl who's drunk or silly enough to actually go home with him, but it's almost a cert that most of those girls around him have absolutely no wish nor intention to actually sleep with him. Take advantage of the circus that a man like that creates, without lowering yourself to become one of the acts. Yeah, I guess I'm introverted unfortunately. I don't like parties with tons of strangers and I don't do very well in those environments. I was able to fake it for a couple of them but I came home feeling defeated after not accomplishing my goals. I go out to bars every weekend with my friends. I've been trying to do that since earlier this year. A lot of the bars around here are frequented by kids from the other Boston-area colleges. For me, it was just getting acclimated to the surrounding environment of a bar. I don't approach women in bars. I'd rather drink gasoline than subject my ego to the inevitable rejection. I've found out that for the most part, women do not like introverted men. That's just how it is. I can't blame women either. Introvert is seen as boring. Well except if you're good looking, you could probably play up the introverted, tortured artist/brooding intellectual/dark mysterious guy/muso and I believe a lot of women would give you the time of day. My friend has a lot of success with that. I would give anything to be a natural extrovert and I feel it would make things a lot easier. Generally speaking, the guy who's acting like the class clown at a party will not go home with girls. That is a given. While girls like extroversion, they do not like someone who participates in self-depreciative acts. Wild boys are seen as nothing more than passing entertainment and are not take seriously. Girls like someone with a presence over the crowd who tells status-raising jokes and stories.
JOYTOME Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) Girls don't like introverted guys? Not entirely true, at least not by my definition of introverted; *plus an introverted guy isn't necessarily a hermit, a loner, a weirdo or a guy who isolates himself from the public. To me, an introverted *guy is someone who's reserved, who has a social life but prefers more quiet activities, enjoys his own company and would happily spend friday*night at home or traveling *as opposed to dancing in a *noisy bar or a club *etc.* Here's the thing, the answer to your question depends on a woman's age and the stage she's at in life, in my experience. When I was younger, I loved extroverts because they were the "cooler guys", the heart-throbs and seemed to have a lot of game. However, as the years began to roll by (I'm not particularly old, but I'm past my early 20's), my preferences and desires began to change. I can confidently say that I much prefer introverts because they seem more sensitive, more serious-minded and less susceptible *to immature distractions. Furthermore factors like a guy's career ambitions, his characteristic traits such as genuine kindness, *his intelligence and ability to engage me in meaningful *discussions (beyond casual banter), *his values and morals, etc are FAR more important *to me than his social habits or his charm. *I'm not saying all extroverts are bad or anything, but based on experiences and empirical observations, *my preference *for a *CALM guy now overrides my desire for a guy with all the game in the world and what not. *Yes I like charisma *but introverted guys can be charismatic as well, right? * He might not have the ability to captivate an audience but so what? When I compare the things in a guy( I used to prioritise *earlier in my dating years) to the things *I value now, I *literally laugh...I loved outgoing, party-guys... I was *immature, but I was young too! Many of the guys I dated then, I wouldn't date now, the appeal no longer exists...the outgoing extroversion that I was enticed by is now a turn-off to me. I'm not swayed by that facade...most times they are the guys with too much trouble (from a relationship perspective). What I'm trying to say in a nutshell is that when you're perhaps a bit older surrounded by women who are a bit more mature you won't feel like introversion is a liability, because it isn't.* Well, I guess "dull" was the wrong word to use. I guess I should have said "I fail to make an impact". The guys who I see have the most success with women are the ones who stir her emotions like a pot. I know I sound like a broken record here because I've said this many times in many threads, but its true. I fail to do that. When I'm talking with other guys, I find it much easier to engage in rapport than with females. I find that with girls, I have to struggle and grasp at conversation topics and even then, it seems safe and half-hearted. I've gotten better compared to freshmen year but still I'm nowhere near the level of my friends. Some of my friends automatically get them laughing and attracted to their every word. I can't do that. I don't think I've ever given a girl a "wow" reaction before. Yeah, I guess I'm introverted unfortunately. I don't like parties with tons of strangers and I don't do very well in those environments. I was able to fake it for a couple of them but I came home feeling defeated after not accomplishing my goals. I go out to bars every weekend with my friends. I've been trying to do that since earlier this year. A lot of the bars around here are frequented by kids from the other Boston-area colleges. For me, it was just getting acclimated to the surrounding environment of a bar. I don't approach women in bars. I'd rather drink gasoline than subject my ego to the inevitable rejection. I've found out that for the most part, women do not like introverted men. That's just how it is. I can't blame women either. Introvert is seen as boring. Well except if you're good looking, you could probably play up the introverted, tortured artist/brooding intellectual/dark mysterious guy/muso and I believe a lot of women would give you the time of day. My friend has a lot of success with that. I would give anything to be a natural extrovert and I feel it would make things a lot easier. Generally speaking, the guy who's acting like the class clown at a party will not go home with girls. That is a given. While girls like extroversion, they do not like someone who participates in self-depreciative acts. Wild boys are seen as nothing more than passing entertainment and are not take seriously. Girls like someone with a presence over the crowd who tells status-raising jokes and stories. Edited May 5, 2013 by JOYTOME
Author Pompeii Posted May 5, 2013 Author Posted May 5, 2013 What I'm trying to say in a nutshell is that when you're perhaps a bit older surrounded by women who are a bit more mature you won't feel like introversion is a liability, because it isn't.* So pretty much, "wait until you're 30". Great.
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 So pretty much, "wait until you're 30". Great. I completely disagree. Women over 30 are even rougher if you are introvert. I'm not an introvert but I used to be. I have a hard enough time holding a 'mature' woman's attention as is, and keeping her interested. I can only imagine how it would be if I was like I was before. Women in their 30s expect to be entertained, and told stories of your travels, and accomplishments. Women in their 20s have done less, so will be impressed by less. None of which means anything if there is no physical attraction.
outsidethebox Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I really don't agree with the premise of women not going for shy/quiet men at all. It is true that you can't be "introverted" where a woman would have to take the initiative of meeting you. But given a chance to meet many women would prefer a quiet guy who pays attention to her than someone whose attention is elsewhere. Since we're talking about attraction and meeting, I think the introverted aspect of it makes that difficult and has to be overcome, but that shouldn't be confused with preference for personalities. 2
Author Pompeii Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 I completely disagree. Women over 30 are even rougher if you are introvert. I'm not an introvert but I used to be. I have a hard enough time holding a 'mature' woman's attention as is, and keeping her interested. I can only imagine how it would be if I was like I was before. Women in their 30s expect to be entertained, and told stories of your travels, and accomplishments. Women in their 20s have done less, so will be impressed by less. None of which means anything if there is no physical attraction. Great. Why does it seem like dating is a series of diminishing returns? As far as introversion/extroversion goes, you cannot change it. It is an inbuilt personality type. You can become LESS introverted, but at your core, you will always still be introverted.
JOYTOME Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I turned 26 a few days ago, still have 4years to go before clocking 30, but no I wasn't implying that only 30 year old women appreciate introversion. What I've been trying to say is that introversion is not a defect nor a hinderance to a healthy dating life...I personally think introverts should embrace their true character but could make some adjustments yet still retain the core elements to the personality that they intrinsically possess e.g making more of an effort with women instead of automatically relegating yourself to the friend zone. I'm also saying sooner than later, this fear or worry you have about your dating life because of your introverted nature will be so irrelevant because there are loads of women who actually prefer quiet guys. Gosh you make introversion seem like a curse. By the age of 23 my preferences had began to change...and I have friends who started dating introverted guys from a young age. Yes, extroversion is necessary to sustain a playboy lifestyle, it's certainly not required to enjoy a healthy dating life., except you literally cannot interact with people on a basic level or you're not crossing paths with members of the opposite sex. I think your clack of confidence is the source of your problems. Except you're saying you're totally repulsive-looking and there's absolutely nothing attractive to you which I sincerely don't believe is the case Curious, are you looking to have numerous flings etc or do you want a girlfriend? What exactly are you looking for right now? So pretty much, "wait until you're 30". Great.
JOYTOME Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) And introverts don't have any life experiences to discuss? Introverts don't travel? There's more to travelling than spring break trips to Miami with a bunch of chicks. An introvert is distinct from a hermit/recluse. An introvert is quite capable of engaging in stimulating, interesting discussions. From what I've observed women in their 30's desire responsible men (all encompassing including financial stability) who value commitment. I completely disagree. Women over 30 are even rougher if you are introvert. I'm not an introvert but I used to be. I have a hard enough time holding a 'mature' woman's attention as is, and keeping her interested. I can only imagine how it would be if I was like I was before. Women in their 30s expect to be entertained, and told stories of your travels, and accomplishments. Women in their 20s have done less, so will be impressed by less. None of which means anything if there is no physical attraction. Edited May 6, 2013 by JOYTOME
Author Pompeii Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 Curious, are you looking to have numerous flings etc or do you want a girlfriend? What exactly are you looking for right now? Whatever I can get to be honest. A hookup would certify to me that at least one girl finds me attractive but a fwb would be ideal. It's personal enough to have frequent sex but impersonal enough so that I can enjoy my freedom at the same time. A girlfriend would be the hardest to get. Seems like lots of girls are picky with who they get into relationships with. If I had several hookups, then I wouldn't worry about my sexual prowess within a relationship. If I had a girlfriend by some miracle and then we ended up sleeping together, I fear I would not last for I am a virgin. So a fwb would be ideal but I believe that is tricky to sustain over a long period of time enough to get some practice.
ChessPieceFace Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 OP - yep, pretty much. Western women of today are generally vile creatures dressed up in a pretty shell, who offer men little more than a bit of sex, then lots of strife and ultimately heartbreak and financial ruin. Here's my only positive comment about it - no matter how bleak the generalization is, there are people who don't fit the generalization. A few women even see the feminist lies for what they are, and reject them. Either figure out how to be happy alone, or keep searching for the exceptions to the rule. 1
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Girls don't like introverted guys? Not entirely true, at least not by my definition of introverted; *plus an introverted guy isn't necessarily a hermit, a loner, a weirdo or a guy who isolates himself from the public. To me, an introverted *guy is someone who's reserved, who has a social life but prefers more quiet activities, enjoys his own company and would happily spend friday*night at home or traveling *as opposed to dancing in a *noisy bar or a club *etc.* Here's the thing, the answer to your question depends on a woman's age and the stage she's at in life, in my experience. When I was younger, I loved extroverts because they were the "cooler guys", the heart-throbs and seemed to have a lot of game. However, as the years began to roll by (I'm not particularly old, but I'm past my early 20's), my preferences and desires began to change. I can confidently say that I much prefer introverts because they seem more sensitive, more serious-minded and less susceptible *to immature distractions. Furthermore factors like a guy's career ambitions, his characteristic traits such as genuine kindness, *his intelligence and ability to engage me in meaningful *discussions (beyond casual banter), *his values and morals, etc are FAR more important *to me than his social habits or his charm. *I'm not saying all extroverts are bad or anything, but based on experiences and empirical observations, *my preference *for a *CALM guy now overrides my desire for a guy with all the game in the world and what not. *Yes I like charisma *but introverted guys can be charismatic as well, right? * He might not have the ability to captivate an audience but so what? When I compare the things in a guy( I used to prioritise *earlier in my dating years) to the things *I value now, I *literally laugh...I loved outgoing, party-guys... I was *immature, but I was young too! Many of the guys I dated then, I wouldn't date now, the appeal no longer exists...the outgoing extroversion that I was enticed by is now a turn-off to me. I'm not swayed by that facade...most times they are the guys with too much trouble (from a relationship perspective). What I'm trying to say in a nutshell is that when you're perhaps a bit older surrounded by women who are a bit more mature you won't feel like introversion is a liability, because it isn't.* I've dated women well into their 30s. Most do not feel this way. Some say they do, but if you watch their actions, you would see that they don't.
tuxedo cat Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Speaking as a woman, aside from extreme physical attractiveness, social charisma and a commanding presence will get you more mileage with women than almost any other traits. 1
outsidethebox Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 That's a good point, and I think the commonality of the male posters who can't find a date despite trying is a decided lack of commanding presence and even less social charisma. Not to mention for some some degree of lack of physical attractiveness. I think the biggest challenge is getting potential mates in proximity, know who is available, get some idea of potential interest, and get a chance to meet and converse. That is just very difficult, especially when facing lots of lack of potential interest. I thought OLD was ideal solution, but turns out it isn't even considered a good one. I don't know what the alternative is. Some people recommend joining groups like various Meetup groups and others rightly point out they didn't join to be propositioned by men for dates. That's assuming you could figure out the above, which I don't have any idea how one could do that unless group is explicitly singles. I just don't understand how posting profile on every available OLD group (without spending an unwarranted amount of money) isn't a practical solution. I can't recommend it, I said I wouldn't after seeing experiences here that women have with it, but I don't see how real life is any different except not having a clue who is potentially a date and where you would be able to talk to them. I'm not talking about myself, heck I'm stupid enough to talk to anyone anywhere and I can muster some of the requisite social skills in a pinch, but I'm talking about all the people, men and women, who aren't going to be sitting around somewhere in public to approach and be approached. The one advice given most frequently and which makes the most sense is to have or develop a strong interest in something and spend time with other people doing it and you will meet likeminded people at least, and directly or indirectly meet potential dates. I don't know what people do and really glad I don't have to figure out something I have an interest in, because I have no interests that I know of that involve groups of people.
Author Pompeii Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 FWB isn't ideal because usually someone usually falls in love and get attached. You are going the wrong path. what will happen if you fall in love with her and she doesn't want love you back? I won't let that happen. I'm pretty good at remaining emotionally detached. If it does, **** it then. Nothing lasts forever. There's no such thing as a Mrs. Right, only Mrs. Right Now. Just gotta keep moving.
Better Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) True. NYC is the exception. The rest of America, a car is a must for a man. Taking a woman on dates on the bus in the U.S. is not going to go over very well for the vast majority of women. There are other cities in the US where not having a car is common. I live in the center of DC, and I meet people all the time that live and work in the city with no need to shoulder the expense of owning and parking a car. With that said, I do have a car since I live in the city but work outside of it. However, I rarely use it on a date. I'm much more likely to find a cab and pick her up since it's easier and less expensive than parking in the city. Edited May 6, 2013 by Better
MYCluciferase Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Can't reply properly to this thread, I've just had my own theories about male attractiveness knocked out the window. A very attractive female friend of mine whose husband just left her for another woman is now dating a very rotund guy guy who I would never have chosen out for her and keeps telling me that she loves him 'because' he has a big belly. - note 'because' and not 'despite' or 'even though' - he's lacking in some other areas (including thoughtfulness, maturity), but apparently the belly is very sexy. Is this a reaction because her husband was slim and in very good shape physically? I'm grasping onto that 'cos otherwise I'm gonna feel very disorientated. So... yeah, good she's happy, but, er, yes...
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