Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 How to shut it down: I won't respond to his texts unless they involve work and need to be answered (he never texts me when he's at home). All of the lovey-dovey stuff has to go unacknowledged. Just recently I got a whopper of a text that was so over the top saccharine it actually made me laugh. And I'm the sappiest of romantics. I was ecstatic with myself for not responding at all. He calls me (during the day), but I don't have to take his calls. We do not need to speak four times a day about my "work." We both have private offices, btw. I don't have to meet with him in person ever for anything other than discussing work. Dinner with him is not a requirement of my job. No mid-day high jinks. Go all Nancy Reagan and Just Say No to anything personal. -------------- I have been thinking a lot about what everyone who has replied has said. Many of you have pointed out that you believe it's not his first affair. A few musings: 1. Someone has to be the first affair of even a serial cheater. So it is not possible for every cheat to be on his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. OW. 2. He did tell me that he effs his wife and that things at home aren't that bad. That doesn't necessarily make him a serial cheater with a few OW's under his belt. It theoretically could mean that he is actually honest with me. (bracing for the immediate frowns from you guys.) 3. I don't feel trained by him. Sometimes I have been the architect of keeping things discreet because I don't want a d-day. You can't control whether or not a d-day will ultimately happen, but there have been a tiny number of times when he has been totally clueless and I directed him in how to keep a secret. (not proud of this) The going-home-without-a-shower-first thing, for example, just boggles my mind. Also, seriously yuck.
Decorative Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Gently- it's the little things like you thinking you "directed" him in how to keep something a secret that show he's quite likely to be a practiced liar and serial cheater. He likely played you. And made you feel needed to keep him out of trouble. It's a nice move by him- to keep you looped. You seem smart and introspective. There's a pattern to be found in guys like this- across the way. Of course there are exceptions. But this, from what you are reporting, sounds like a duck. And appears to be walking like a duck. So perhaps.... It's a duck? You deserve better than this, and maybe realizing that certain things are not as he made them look to you will help steel your resolve.
Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 OK, after this post, I am willing to concede defeat in the whole "is he a serial cheater or not?" thing. I can protest all I want, but I know I am not going to win any ground here on LS. What I don't get is, if he is a serial cheater, why continue to bother with me at all? I am a self-admitted total nut job that been a major-league pain in the butt to him in exchange for a small number of lays by comparison. I break things off with him dramatically, tell him I'm through, and he doesn't get sex with me for a long time. Who in their right mind would continue to put up with that? For very infrequent sex? I mean, if he is managing a stable of ladies, why not just tell me, "Peace! It's been real!," when I tell him we're through? Ladies and gents: I am not a kid (as you may have gathered). I have seen players. I don't respond, especially to the laughable, over-the-top grasping at straws stuff they deploy to try to trick women. I remember when I was a teenager a guy said he loved me on, say, date #3. I said to him, "You want sex, right? Because you most certainly do not love me." And then I laughed at him and asked him to leave. Players do not dump enormous amounts of time/effort into causes that don't have a high enough rate of return. With experience, they come to leave the ladies who give them a headache and don't service their d*** right quick. Perhaps I have mischaracterized this whole thing with MM. I think MM might actually think he is in love with me. (It's really lust.) I'm under the same delusion. 95% of our communications have nothing whatsoever to do with sex/love/flattery. I think he's a first-time cheat who legitimately enjoys all the positive aspects I offer (not just sex) and so puts up with outrageous amounts of drama from me and long sexual droughts. I'd like to meet one player/serial cheat that would continually sign up for that. I also think he must be crazy, so that's probably why I'm into him. Pierre et al.: I always assume that the last thing he did when he left his house was his W, so, yes, I am careful. 1
2sure Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I've been reading every one of your posts, and following your thoughts as you've written them. I haven't posted because I had nothing new to add, everyone and yourself seems to be on the right track...with what's good for you. But you're missing something here thats kind of important and it might help you, which is why I have to belabor the point. He is, from what you describe, a typical and not subtle serial cheater. For serial cheaters, it isn't about sex it's about validation, it's about cheating. That's why cheaters that are happy with their marriages cheat, it's just entitlement, they want more validation. The big red flag and the flag that will give you the most clarity as to what you mean to him... You mentioned earlier that when you started working with him and /or first met him...he immediately asked you to meet for drinks. Happily married men who don't cheat don't do that. Happily married men acting in a professional capacity who dont cheat don't do that. He's a shopper. Your question should be: why the hell did he think you would be so open to an unavailable man that you work with? I'm not asking you why, but why did he recognize this? Some women would be insulted, especially at work. I don't say this to insult you but to empower you.
Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 2sure: Since I have never been involved with a cheater before (aside from my exH) I admit: I assumed it was about the sex. If it's really about validation, then I can see why he comes back for more from me even if I'm a pain. Isn't it really about an ego trip? He is in love with the way he feels. The asking me for drinks thing WAS weird, but not because of the usual mores about these things. It's not uncommon at all in our field to go out for drinks at the slightest provocation (many of us are functioning alcoholics). I have gone out to grab a drink with lots of guys that I collaborate with and there was nothing more than friendly banter and, once in a rare while, maybe an awkward "you're pretty" from them. What put my hairs standing up straight about him on our first meeting was that I knew I was extremely attracted. A very long time passed after that meeting before he brought up that drink again. After the A started, I asked him what made him believe that I would be receptive to his advances. He said I had a look in my eyes that gave it all away. I hear from men I am not interested in that I give off "come take me" vibes. I know I unintentionally give off signals that I am interested without saying a word to I guess every guy I interact with by being what I consider to just be friendly. Obviously, I am not just friendly or I wouldn't have this issue. Being attractive doesn't help either because a straight guy will WANT an attractive woman to want him and will see things through that lens. MM has asked, whenever I say I want an end to the PA, to avert my gaze from him. Gaze, body language, conversational style: more things to work on in IC.
2sunny Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) OK, after this post, I am willing to concede defeat in the whole "is he a serial cheater or not?" thing. I can protest all I want, but I know I am not going to win any ground here on LS. What I don't get is, if he is a serial cheater, why continue to bother with me at all? I am a self-admitted total nut job that been a major-league pain in the butt to him in exchange for a small number of lays by comparison. I break things off with him dramatically, tell him I'm through, and he doesn't get sex with me for a long time. Who in their right mind would continue to put up with that? For very infrequent sex? I mean, if he is managing a stable of ladies, why not just tell me, "Peace! It's been real!," when I tell him we're through? Ladies and gents: I am not a kid (as you may have gathered). I have seen players. I don't respond, especially to the laughable, over-the-top grasping at straws stuff they deploy to try to trick women. I remember when I was a teenager a guy said he loved me on, say, date #3. I said to him, "You want sex, right? Because you most certainly do not love me." And then I laughed at him and asked him to leave. Players do not dump enormous amounts of time/effort into causes that don't have a high enough rate of return. With experience, they come to leave the ladies who give them a headache and don't service their d*** right quick. Perhaps I have mischaracterized this whole thing with MM. I think MM might actually think he is in love with me. (It's really lust.) I'm under the same delusion. 95% of our communications have nothing whatsoever to do with sex/love/flattery. I think he's a first-time cheat who legitimately enjoys all the positive aspects I offer (not just sex) and so puts up with outrageous amounts of drama from me and long sexual droughts. I'd like to meet one player/serial cheat that would continually sign up for that. I also think he must be crazy, so that's probably why I'm into him. Pierre et al.: I always assume that the last thing he did when he left his house was his W, so, yes, I am careful. Plenty of cheating men like the conquest and ego stroke of (even occasionally) giving you words that push the right buttons that cause you to spread your legs. He's just trying to figure out which is the magic button you need to have pushed. He doesn't NEED the sex everyday - he can get that from his wife. He needs the variety. He's told you he has plenty of sex with his wife so that you understand he's not leaving the M- that sends you a clear signal to expect very little. He needs you to stroke his ego. When you aren't - you can bet money he's got a few other gals that he uses for that. You need to be tested for diseases he may have given you. It's the way you describe him that tells me he's cheated before (and probably since) he's been with you. If you can't look yourself in the mirror and feel that you are doing things that make you proud of the woman that you are - then stop participating on any level with the things that make you feel unhappy about what you're doing. Edited May 6, 2013 by 2sunny
ComingInHot Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Idyll wrote, "How to shut it down: I won't respond to his texts unless they involve work and need to be answered (he never texts me when he's at home). All of the lovey-dovey stuff has to go unacknowledged. Just recently I got a whopper of a text that was so over the top saccharine it actually made me laugh. And I'm the sappiest of romantics. I was ecstatic with myself for not responding at all. He calls me (during the day), but I don't have to take his calls. We do not need to speak four times a day about my "work." We both have private offices, btw. I don't have to meet with him in person ever for anything other than discussing work. Dinner with him is not a requirement of my job. No mid-day high jinks. Go all Nancy Reagan and Just Say No to anything personal." Good Morning! I like how you are thinking with the above post* Now, if you can do just ONE off your list, you will be a step further than many! I Knew you "already know" what you want but now instead of leaving it up to him to break things off, You are empowering yourself. I think that's pretty cool. You aren't whining, or thinking up excuses why "not" to begin ending things, You are acknowledging where you are at AND making the necessary changes within yourself to make things better for you in the long run! I KNOW the challenge is H.A.R.D. especially when you two work together and the temptation is always in front of you. Most likely, MM will "step up his game"/advances. This can actually be looked at as the more interesting part of your challenge. You may find some humor in it down the road. I mean look at how hard this MM (and I emphasize MM) is trying to woo you. And to what end? It's Not like he is leaving his W & Family for you. It is strictly for (and you said it best) "how you make him feel". He LOVES that you want him and care for him! I know I LOVE when I know I am wanted or needed too* And I think you may be the same way to some extent. What kind of a douche does that? Anyway, back to the challenge* For every time you "blow off" a communication from MM, count how many More times he reaches out. Then read or listen to what he says. Can you infer MM is trying out different ways to "get to you"? If anything, feel good that You are Not the pathetic one throwing out all different sorts of lines, phrases, looks, touches to get or keep the A going. Oh ya, and don't forget to smile!!* 2
SweetBella1 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I give you a lot of credit for looking at this logically. This A has "doomed" written all over it. There are so many of these stories on LS except they are being written by OWs just like you who have been left devastated, confused, heartbroken by men who wouldn't let them go. The men would keep coming back, trying to initiate, trying to keep things going. And the OWs would comply, reluctantly..over and over. Til one day the MM was like "IT'S OVER. BYE" Literally as cold as that. Or by saying they want to take time to focus on their family and marriage. And who's left to suffer? The OW. I commend you for looking ahead on this and taking the reins NOW versus letting him take the reins and eventually ScReW with your head and heart!! 1
Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) awesome advice and support again everyone! Seething: It's funny, it never occurred to me that the drama I inflict may not be a big deal to him at all. Exactly like when someone you know is having a tough time, and you patiently listen but then go on with your day and flush it out of your brain. Clearly, this guy is an adept compartmentalizer. If I'm not up for fun, for sure W (or someone else?) will be. Pierre: Early love is addictive. And the brain is just bathed in all sorts of chemicals. CIH: I am actively not responding to his advances, and it does feel good. I told him that I will not take his phone calls regularly anymore, that it was interfering with my job. --------- I woke up this morning wanting a cigarette so bad. The other day, I was walking down the street and I saw the stub of a cigarette in the gutter and (brace yourself folks) for a split second, I actually considered picking it up, lighting up, and having a drag off of it. (OMG!) That has to be just one of the nastiest things I could do right? I mean, you've gotta be pretty desperate to take someone's left over cigarette butt that's been tossed in the street? See where this is going... MM is that cigarette butt in the gutter. He's probably way more dangerous to touch too. What do I get from him? The last nasty, dirty drags off of something that rightfully belongs to someone else. I have this mantra in my head: "You will never marry me, MM, and therefore I don't want your penis." It actually really does help in breaking the allure. Once I shut down emotionally (in this case, give up on my fantasy), I can't be sexual with someone no matter how hard they try. 2sunny and bella: you nailed it. I am not proud of this behavior. And why wait for him to toss me aside? Why not choose the hard road of me ending things? On that note, CIH, the feeling good about less contact tells me that my heart is starting, ever so slightly, to begin to pull away and heal. I am truly happy when my drama level with him is at a minimum. When I can just live my life without dealing with this. I wish I had been smarter and drew a hard line in the sand before I got wrapped up in something so obviously doomed. But at least he never lied to me saying he will marry me. I can be 100% authentic with him when I say: this "relationship" doesn't work for me. sorry. go away now. There's no way for the MM to defeat the logic in that. Edited May 6, 2013 by Idyll 1
Realist3 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 OK, after this post, I am willing to concede defeat in the whole "is he a serial cheater or not?" thing. I can protest all I want, but I know I am not going to win any ground here on LS. What I don't get is, if he is a serial cheater, why continue to bother with me at all? I am a self-admitted total nut job that been a major-league pain in the butt to him in exchange for a small number of lays by comparison. I break things off with him dramatically, tell him I'm through, and he doesn't get sex with me for a long time. Who in their right mind would continue to put up with that? For very infrequent sex? I mean, if he is managing a stable of ladies, why not just tell me, "Peace! It's been real!," when I tell him we're through? Ladies and gents: I am not a kid (as you may have gathered). I have seen players. I don't respond, especially to the laughable, over-the-top grasping at straws stuff they deploy to try to trick women. I remember when I was a teenager a guy said he loved me on, say, date #3. I said to him, "You want sex, right? Because you most certainly do not love me." And then I laughed at him and asked him to leave. Players do not dump enormous amounts of time/effort into causes that don't have a high enough rate of return. With experience, they come to leave the ladies who give them a headache and don't service their d*** right quick. Perhaps I have mischaracterized this whole thing with MM. I think MM might actually think he is in love with me. (It's really lust.) I'm under the same delusion. 95% of our communications have nothing whatsoever to do with sex/love/flattery. I think he's a first-time cheat who legitimately enjoys all the positive aspects I offer (not just sex) and so puts up with outrageous amounts of drama from me and long sexual droughts. I'd like to meet one player/serial cheat that would continually sign up for that. I also think he must be crazy, so that's probably why I'm into him. Pierre et al.: I always assume that the last thing he did when he left his house was his W, so, yes, I am careful.[/QUOTe] I know most people are giving what you they have accumulated over time in these saga's. But I would not concede the point just yet. What you posted about your MM is very similar to my own experiences. My MOW has often directed me; and it wasn't some reverse psychology attempt on me part. This is my first. I agree, a 'player' would not put up with what is going on here. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm just saying that it is not necessarily clear if that is the case.
anna121 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I can relate. I have strong feelings for a co-worker, as yet unrealized. The supervisory aspect would give me pause. To be clear, absent a specific sexual harassment complaint it would not be grounds for dismissal in MY workplace, but...the need to interact in a subordinate/superior position is just...bad. My colleague and I are not forced to interact and when we do it's on a level of equality. So, I think you have some potentially difficult choices to make. Is there any way you could be reassigned to someone else? Secondment, for example? I think, unless you are sure that this relationship is worth going the distance for (and he feels the same way), you should walk away. Reading the stories here, there are very, very few positive endings.
firstandlast Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 The number of affairs that develop in the workplace is astronomical. Put men and women together everyday and familiarity leads to romance. Put men and women to work in the same project shoulder to shoulder for long hours and romance happens. Whether people are happy in the marriage is moot. Too much familiarity generates romance. That's a depressing thought. It almost sounds inevitable.
Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Hola Realist: I conceded defeat on arguing about whether MM is a serial cheater or not because I have nothing whatsoever to gain by continuing to argue against the tide of people here on LS who will not even admit I could theoretically be right. Except for you. Thank you. Like I said, even the most serial of serial cheaters has to have OW (or OM) #1. It's logically impossible for every cheater to start with #2. In the end, being wrong or right on LS on this point is not that important to me. I want to invest my time in extracting myself from being an OW. I think being "married" as a social construct/living arrangement/family structure means a lot to MM, with the critical exception to the contract of traditional marriage that he wants to have extramarital emotional involvement and sex with me. I cannot ever truly know about his level of temptation with women before he met me. He does have an outstanding reputation as an honorable, honest person personally and professionally in a very small industry. All I know for sure is that I was tempting enough to "go there" with---for the first time or, as many might argue, for the millionth time. I know that since MM did not give me the cliche line of "my wife and I aren't happy/sexual anymore" that could mean he is an experienced cheat who doesn't want me getting any big ideas. It could also mean he is being honest with me that I'm his first affair partner and doesn't want me getting any big ideas. I am willing to bet that most cheats ARE serial cheats, so what people who have been burned badly and are here on LS are getting at is generally true. High probability doesn't PROVE anything in this case, and due to the nature of an anonymous forum, I can't go into more detail about our situation/can't have a big party with you guys so you can interrogate MM face-to-face. I accept that this is a place for people (who---yes, Realist---come to LS already heavily flavored by their own experiences) to share support with each other. On that note, Pierre, you are very rough on me sometimes. I don't think I would hire you as a motivational speaker anytime soon. Assuming I am going to falter is not super helpful. It's very pessimistic. Thankfully, you don't actually know me, so you don't really bother me. I read your missives carefully because I enjoy the way you dissect my addled postings. But just because you (apparently) were a serial cheat who fed women lines in the coldest of manipulative ways does not make everyone that way. In the end, it really doesn't make a darn bit of difference if MM is having his first affair or millionth. I don't want to be the OW of MM. And so I have to end it. BTW, guys, I did an excellent job of giving him the brush off today. AND, au contraire, Pierre, I really, really, really enjoy my work and so I LIKE it when he stops giving me all the suffocating attention. I've gotten the "cold shoulder" from him before. It only hurts when you care. If you can put your mind toward something else, it doesn't hurt as bad or at all. It feels like peace. ------ The thing about workplaces is that you have all these pressures, especially the higher up you go, and when the level of emotional involvement with a project rises, so too does the sexual tension between colleagues. I have been working on something extremely difficult, and conversations strictly about my job started to get more and more more heated. That's a dangerous situation for sure; it's a recipe for feelings/desire to bubble over into actions. At least now, I know how this all happened so I can avoid the s*** show of an office A (or any type, really) in the future. Edited May 6, 2013 by Idyll 2
Author Idyll Posted May 6, 2013 Author Posted May 6, 2013 I can relate. I have strong feelings for a co-worker, as yet unrealized. For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT go there. Please, be super smart and learn a lesson from others' experiences before it's too late. You will be taking your heart and backing it over with a pickup truck repeatedly every day before you know it because you work with this person. I and many others are reaping the emotional hell of this choice. Save yourself! Go to lunch with this person who tempts you and say, "I'm uncomfortable with how we relate to each other. Can we keep things just friendly and professional?" Then give a stern look so it is known that you mean business about the flirting coming to an end. I have done this before and, even if the other person insists they were only being friendly, the message is 100% clear. It is super awkward and, undoubtedly, you'll feel conflicted because sexual tension is exhilarating. Do it anyways. Do it even if your heart is fluttering. Actually, do it especially if your heart is fluttering. Don't wait for an "I love you" to come out of someone's mouth!!! By then, the emotional and sexual pull is like a black hole. 1
chaser0195 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 Gently- it's the little things like you thinking you "directed" him in how to keep something a secret that show he's quite likely to be a practiced liar and serial cheater. He likely played you. And made you feel needed to keep him out of trouble. It's a nice move by him- to keep you looped. You seem smart and introspective. There's a pattern to be found in guys like this- across the way. Of course there are exceptions. But this, from what you are reporting, sounds like a duck. And appears to be walking like a duck. So perhaps.... It's a duck? You deserve better than this, and maybe realizing that certain things are not as he made them look to you will help steel your resolve. The bolded part is a bit far fetched IMO. Unless he sees her as a complete dunce but from reading her post I am gonna say she isn't and he can see that crap wouldn't work either. I am guessing her need to "direct" him is either his arrogance is making him sloppy with hiding it or he is in such a blissful state the he sometimes forgets that he is playing with fire. In many relationships, people are so head over heals for the new person that they don't tone it down at the appropriate times. They "GLOW" and that may be happening with him even though the dynamics are different because this relationship DOES need to be hidden.
jezebella Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 For the love of all that is holy, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT go there. Please, be super smart and learn a lesson from others' experiences before it's too late. You will be taking your heart and backing it over with a pickup truck repeatedly every day before you know it because you work with this person. I and many others are reaping the emotional hell of this choice. Save yourself! Don't wait for an "I love you" to come out of someone's mouth!!! By then, the emotional and sexual pull is like a black hole. Yes, if I can do one positive thing on LS it's to say that workplace affairs are hell on earth. Not only are you risking your or his family, but you are risking your current job, your professional reputation, and thus your entire career. The A will end, too, and working together makes NC almost impossible, as we're discussing in this thread. Don't even think about it.
Realist3 Posted May 6, 2013 Posted May 6, 2013 I want to invest my time in extracting myself from being an OW. I too have been in your shoes. It is tough. After reading your first post in this thread again, I think you too realize how difficult it will be. In just a short two days you did a pretty stark turnaround. In the first you sound like someone in the fog. At the end here you seem to be on a very rational track. 1
Author Idyll Posted May 7, 2013 Author Posted May 7, 2013 I am guessing her need to "direct" him is either his arrogance is making him sloppy with hiding it or he is in such a blissful state the he sometimes forgets that he is playing with fire. In many relationships, people are so head over heals for the new person that they don't tone it down at the appropriate times. They "GLOW" and that may be happening with him even though the dynamics are different because this relationship DOES need to be hidden. Bingo. Thank you. He's not controlling me like a puppet, while cleverly making me think I'm in charge. This is not that complicated. Please employ Occam's razor, folks. He's just a love-sick fool---btw, this is not the sign of serial cheater. Just the opposite. And, for sure, he is arrogant and deluded about the chances of being caught. He doesn't get it that us women can just sense these things in the air. I've never been called a dunce in my life. But maybe I should---it would take my ridiculously huge ego down a notch. I am very sorry! I actually like you a lot as a poster because you are not defensive and tell it like it is. However, the mods have suspended me before for poor manners, so you are likely correct. I forgive you, Pierre. Just remember we ARE all capable of change. I can totally see how you might have gotten yourself in a little hot water. You take tough love to a wee bit of an extreme. Remember that any "advice" that falls too far beyond a margin of reasonableness will be ignored by most people. I always had married GF or second wife at work, but I never slept with them. Oh, man! You never did the deed and had a PA?! Dude, TOTALLY missed out on some hot sex. I mean tantric, screaming each other's name, wild animals going at it, crazy, bazillion-acrobatic-positions sex. (Sorry to be offensive with that to all the BS's. Just adding a little levity to what otherwise is a pretty miserable story.) And for an update: MM really tried to get in my knickers today. I told him to stop trying and sent him packing. Harshly. Sooooo tough that we work together. Whew! CIH, that's one day in the "win" column. 2
whichwayisup Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 And for an update: MM really tried to get in my knickers today. I told him to stop trying and sent him packing. Harshly. Sooooo tough that we work together. Whew! CIH, that's one day in the "win" column. Well, you're strong enough to suck it up at work and focus on your job. Won't be easy but if any can do it, you can! Good for you. Listen to your head and gut, not heart/emotions/lust.
2sunny Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I'm proud of you - you are showing courage and strength to change! It's a rare sight around here - and it's making me smile for you! A win for sure!!! The tough things I do in life are what me proud of myself! I hope you stay on the right path for your own well being - and find further strength to move forward enough to allow - kind, loving, available man to take up the space in your heart and head!
movingon45 Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Bingo. Thank you. He's not controlling me like a puppet, while cleverly making me think I'm in charge. This is not that complicated. Please employ Occam's razor, folks. He's just a love-sick fool---btw, this is not the sign of serial cheater. Just the opposite. And, for sure, he is arrogant and deluded about the chances of being caught. He doesn't get it that us women can just sense these things in the air. I've never been called a dunce in my life. But maybe I should---it would take my ridiculously huge ego down a notch. I forgive you, Pierre. Just remember we ARE all capable of change. I can totally see how you might have gotten yourself in a little hot water. You take tough love to a wee bit of an extreme. Remember that any "advice" that falls too far beyond a margin of reasonableness will be ignored by most people. Oh, man! You never did the deed and had a PA?! Dude, TOTALLY missed out on some hot sex. I mean tantric, screaming each other's name, wild animals going at it, crazy, bazillion-acrobatic-positions sex. (Sorry to be offensive with that to all the BS's. Just adding a little levity to what otherwise is a pretty miserable story.) And for an update: MM really tried to get in my knickers today. I told him to stop trying and sent him packing. Harshly. Sooooo tough that we work together. Whew! CIH, that's one day in the "win" column. I REALLY admire how you were able to move from point A to point B so fast. I wish that I can do the same thing. I also can't do the NC thing. I tried but I can't. I really want us to be friends, and I thought we were for a while, but his messages quickly became sexual in nature. Ours is more like a fwb thing between former college sweethearts. Lots of history between us and definitely amazing sex, which is absent from my married life. The worst thing about LC though is waiting for his text. I really can't do this either. It does gets easier though....
Author Idyll Posted May 7, 2013 Author Posted May 7, 2013 Thank you guys for all of the kudos for being strong and rejecting MM. It is not easy. I feel an incredible pull toward him. And the sex was unreal it was so good. It is not that I had a sudden epiphany and went from being madly in the thick of things and then---snap!---suddenly over it. I have gone back and forth on MM for a long time now. Something about his behavior lately, though, has been pushing me away. I am starting to see that it is not about love for me, really. It is about winning me back at the cost of hurting me. If he knows that being involved in the A hurts me (and he does know this because I told him. repeatedly.), then any further insistence on his part in a romantic vein is an act of totally not giving a s*** about me. And I'm not into that. This situation sucks because when an AP is someone in a supervisory position at a job you care about, you can't just tell them off without fear of professional reprisal or go full NC without totally rearranging your life. I am also compassionate about how he must feel. An A is an addiction. Controlling himself is extremely hard. For those of you who are trying to break free but desperately wait for that next text, email, call from MM or MW, I can say I've been there. I was in love with someone a long time ago and for two years I pined for him. For two years I thought of him everyday. For two years I dealt with boiling over in anger that we couldn't be together. I talked with my friends and family about it. I talked with my therapist about it. I prayed constantly, "please, God, make this feeling of wanting him/being angry go away." I was scarily obsessed. It was a horrendous experience and gave me a new perspective on how the brain can just fail to reset after something emotionally engrossing. Maybe MM will have to pass through the same mental anguish. So far, I am doing better than that horror show I went through years ago. I don't really know why. But g'd'it, I am grateful. 1
Author Idyll Posted May 7, 2013 Author Posted May 7, 2013 Well, on second thought, being on LS is a tremendous help with putting MM in perspective. Major, major, major help. I can be here and share this private hell with you guys instead of checking my phone. It's way healthier behavior to seek support and moving me in the right direction. Honestly, by the time I'm done reading everyone's wonderful posts and writing my own, I want to move on from something other than giving MM free rent in my head. hahahahaha 3
Author Idyll Posted May 7, 2013 Author Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) Do you have empathy for his wife and children? Yes. Now. Hence why I don't want a d-day and will do everything I can to not bring one about. He and I crossed over the line between desires that were private to full-blown sex in the space of a few moments. There wasn't a lot of thinking going on in those moments. After that, I was deluded enough to think that being with me would make him want to leave his wife. (Sorry folks, not all marriages are worth staying in.) When I realized my error, I fought to stop the A. I can't go back and not have slept with him, but I can conduct myself honorably in a way that respects his marriage from here on out. This is not a nice man. I know you idealize this guy, but he is not the man you would recommend your daughter for marriage. Pierre, you talk smack about everybody. He's a complicated person. Like you. Like me. I don't know that I wouldn't recommend him to my daughter. Perhaps my daughter would be into the polygamist lifestyle. I just know that I'm not. Just keep posting and don't sleep with him. Stop your obsession with sex. This is not about sex, this is a romantic affair, the most deadly event you may experience in your lifetime. You are standing at the precipice and lucky you were not 100% foggy and decided to post here. If you ever have a d-day, get thrown under the bus, and lose your job your pain will be a 1000 times worse than what you experienced before. You need to walkaway from this selfish man. I have already been through a d-day as the wife. I left my husband and had to start over completely from scratch. New job. New city. I was sleeping in a shelter for a while until I could get back on my feet. At the same time I had cancer, and my best friend was killed in a car accident. Nothing will ever compare to that. Going through that experience has made me unbelievably strong in a way that most folks can't relate to. So please stop telling me that this will be worse. Because it won't. And I am also starting to get a little miffed at you giving me sex advice. When you have a PA, let's talk. Edited May 7, 2013 by Idyll 2
Decorative Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Yes. Now. Hence why I don't want a d-day and will do everything I can to not bring one about. He and I crossed over the line between desires that were private to full-blown sex in the space of a few moments. There wasn't a lot of thinking going on in those moments. After that, I was deluded enough to think that being with me would make him want to leave his wife. (Sorry folks, not all marriages are worth staying in.) When I realized my error, I fought to stop the A. I can't go back and not have slept with him, but I can conduct myself honorably in a way that respects his marriage from here on out. Pierre, you talk smack about everybody. He's a complicated person. Like you. Like me. I don't know that I wouldn't recommend him to my daughter. Perhaps my daughter would be into the polygamist lifestyle. I just know that I'm not. I have already been through a d-day as the wife. I left my husband and had to start over completely from scratch. New job. New city. I was sleeping in a shelter for a while until I could get back on my feet. At the same time I had cancer, and my best friend was killed in a car accident. Nothing will ever compare to that. Going through that experience has made me unbelievably strong in a way that most folks can't relate to. So please stop telling me that this will be worse. Because it won't. And I am also starting to get a little miffed at you giving me sex advice. When you have a PA, let's talk. You have been betrayed and you did this? You can do better. You should do better. Past hurts are not something to inflict forward onto other people. You are worth more. So much more. And I understand grief and loss. I have lost my son and multiple close friends. Those were horrible things to go through and come out on the other side. I am sorry you also have deep loss in your life. I hope you can find peace and an understanding of why you chose to think you could replace his wife, or why your choices were okay to you in the moment. There's a much better path out there.
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