Sexless Marrage - My Fault - Can't 180

[GoneDaddyGone]

Part I

 

OK, here's my deal. I'm messed up emotionally. Who isn't who posts here though right? I am separated from my wife of 14 years. I'll cop to my part in this. I was emotionally and intimately remote from her most of this time. I now realize I was a sexual addict. I'm still trying to sort out a lot of my issues but I think I was depressed over the years. I definitely withdrew from just about everything according to my family and friends. I drank a lot of beer and smoked pot when I had it Our marriage was pretty much sexless. We didn't have sex on our honeymoon. So much shame over that. We did manage to have two awesome children who are 8 and 5 now.

 

As you might expect she grew remote from me as well. we would have big fights. in these she usually rum down what she saw as my laundry list of problems. and I would lash back out at her calling her a b**** how she was and not understanding. I was not happy with how our relationship was but I didn't know what to do. She would get angry and yell when I turned down sex because of my shame over performance issues. I would get so ashamed and hurt I would withdraw more.

 

I have a hard time talking with anyone or initiating contact for problems and I had no idea what to do. Eventually a Dr. gave me Viagra but that didn't seem to help much. I didn't connect my constant viewing of porn with my lack of ability to be intimate with my wife.

 

When our children were born she said she wasn't interested in sex any more. She didn't want to be touched. I was sad but didn't push it because of the pain sex caused us. Then one day in 2009 while we were living at her parents she started chatting out of the blue how horny she was and that she was going to come home early to have sex. We sex chatted a bit then she left to drive home. Then all the anxiety, fear, and shame came over me. By the time she got home I was physically sick to my stomach and told her that. She exploded and we fought again. She said she was seriously wanting to divorce me. I said how much I wanted to change but I had no clue how to do it. She said it just had to be done. I was isolated from everything. I didn't know who to go to with the shame of my sexual issue.

Eventually we just sort of normalized the relationship by taking care of the kids and working. In 2010 we got our own place and moved out of her parents. we went to a therapist for a little bit to discuss our communication issues. we decided to do that to stop fighting in front of the kids though. it was not strictly marriage counseling in the broad sense. then I had issues with my job and money became a problem so we stopped.

 

This January she again initiated a sexual encounter. She called up and said I should take some pills and get ready. She came home and we went to the bedroom where she appeared in a corset I had never seen before. I did the best I could but could tell she was disappointed again. This time she said that It would be a great marriage if she had me and a boyfriend she could have sex with. I was hurt by that but I said I could understand. I did take that as a signal that she was still interested in connecting emotionally and intimately. This time I went to the Dr and had blood work done to check hormone levels, had sleep tests done and tried to roust myself out of my withdrawal.

 

I worked from home a lot so I would stay in my office too much. I worked on getting out of it to have more family contact. I would try to spend time with her when she was home, but she mostly watched TV and I was taking night classes and stressing about work. She soon said that TV time was when she wanted to be alone to relax. I was stymied about how to get intimate with her. I gave her a handmade Valentine telling her about my love and that I wanted to go on a date with her. Something I never initiated.

[GoneDaddyGone]

Part II

 

Around the end of February one night after I came home from night and the kids were in bed. she stuck her head in the office and told me that this kid from across the street was coming over. didn't ask just told me. this happened a couple times before actually. I knew that she was also getting drugs from him. but this night she sat down with him in the front room during the time she told me she wants to be alone. she was laughing and having a great conversation with him. I became physically ill when I realize that it wasn't that she just wanted quiet time she wanted to not be near me. she was fine having other people around her at that time.

 

When he finally left I confronted her and told her that I felt like she didn't love me. she then told me that she wanted a separation or divorce or open marriage. I was reeling. the divorce separation was an inevitability I always had in the back of my mind. the open marriage shocked me deeply.

 

I've been trying to remember things from that shocked state. I vaguely remember asking her if she had anyone in mind for this open marriage she wanted. she said no. I I opened up and told her all the things I had been holding in and wanting to do over the years all the secrets I have all the same I've been turned around I'm just laid it all out. everything I asked her was met with I don't know. I don't remember much else other than after we stopped talking I went upstairs, kissed the kids goodnight and started crying as I looked at them sleeping.

 

I went into deep shock. the next day I didn't go to work. I took my son out of daycare and spent the day with him while my wife went to work. I took stock my life and all the things that I had always wanted to change. I called my parents who I hardly had talked to over the years. I told them everything all my shame all my secrets everything that happened with my wife and I up to that point.

 

The next day her mother, who didn't know what had happened yet, called and asked me to get some email addresses so she could plan a surprise party for my wife. I got on my wife's laptop which she always left on and used while she was watching TV. her web browser was open to her email account and Facebook. chat windows were open. I saw she had been talking to 1 guy I have been friends with years ago and was her friend and another guy I didn't know.

 

Of course at that point I checked the chat logs. she had been talking with an Other Guy. I knew this Other Guy, she had worked with him and we had hung out at bars and his house when we lived in California 9 years ago. Now He knew about her feelings for me and what she was thinking about doing. Things she was telling me to my face that she didn't know about so couldn't tell me. She had told him of her plans to have sex with me to see if she felt anything. Then she told him afterwards she had not. The friend was giving advice to run to keep trying and keep trying to have intimate contact with me. He also said things like imagine it was him and try not to call his name out she was doing it. She told him that she felt more attracted to him just chatting over text then to me when I was standing in front of her. Ouch!

 

The other Other Guy she was talking to was apparently going through a separation divorce of his own. she was calling him "babe" talking about his problems interspersed with talking about doing sexual things to him.

I didn't think I could be more shocked. I asked her again if she had anybody in mind for open relationships. again she said no. I didn't tell her that I had seen the chat logs.

[GoneDaddyGone]

Part III

 

 

 

My daughter had a spring break the next week so we quickly planned that I go out to California to see my dad. instantly this was so we could get some space. the day we left I told her I knew about what she was doing online. she told me that it was my fault she was doing that. I have ruined her self esteem and she just wanted to feel attractive and desired again.

reeling I went to California and spent a week there trying my best to enjoy being with my daughter and seeing old friends and family while reeling in being in pain on the inside. it was so bad my dad took me to his therapist there and paid for the session.

 

 

When I came back I tried to just keep going with life. keep working keep going to school. while trying to figure out what was going on with my wife and me. trying to talk to her. she was closed off and didn't want to discuss anything with me. just about every question I asked she answered I don't know. I tried to figure out what we should do. I just kept talking and talking and couldn't stop. one day I felt like I should just divorce her. the next day I wanted to work very hard on fixing the relationship and making it better.

eventually we came to the point where we kind of agreed that the next step was separation and working on selling the house. I just felt it was kind of inevitable that we would reach that point

 

 

After that she stopped discussing things with me put the house on the market packed up and pretty much left. no discussion with me about anything that was going to happen or asking me about when I wanted to sell the house or anything.

 

 

The house quickly sold. Closing is in June. It pretty much happened this week. On Monday my wife and I were chatting about the impending sale and I started talking about the bad memories and how a lot of what I thought was between us was "false". I kept on chatting and chatting and chatting long after she said she was done and for me to stop. On Tues I sent her a snippet of the chat log.

 

 

 

I know about the 180 and part of me was yelling at myself to stop what I was doing, but I was so weak that I didn't.

 

 

I know this shows her that she can't trust me and she has said as much. She has taken off her rings and basically said she doesn't want to talk to me any more. Man, I have ****ed up.

[Mr. Lucky]

Tough love coming as my take on your long and detailed post(s) is simply that, due to your lack of participation on almost every level, you haven't been a candidate for marriage for the last 15 years. Emotionally distant, sexually inactive, completely withdrawn - not a recipe for success. Your marriage is probably over.

 

Your focus should be on fixing you. You come across as passive/aggressive through the entire relationship, including the separation. Lots of things to address in IC and young kids that need you to step up. That's where your focus should be...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Gunny376]

OK there Sports Fan?

 

The Viagra isn't the magic drug that its suppose to be! Wha? What a wonder.

 

There's SO many possible combinations and deferations as to why your not "up to the task"

 

Some are physical ~ could be as simple as blood pressure ~

 

Could be hormones ~ low testerone levels? Could be elevate estrogen levels, etc. Who knows?

 

You could just possibly be asexual ~ simply not intereted in sex with anyone. If so your in great company ~ Sir Isaic Newton was asexual and died a virgin in his seventies ~ just wasn't intereted in sex. Didn't make him a bad person! Didn't make him a immoral person? Didn't make him a freak? Didn't make him less of a human being?

 

Guess what? New's flash for ya!

 

There's a gal out there who thinks, believes, and see things just like you do!

 

Sex? Whatever? I just want to know you love me for me, and care about me, and love me for me!

 

Me?

 

When I was in my teens? I was all about just anything that wore panties and a skirt!

 

In my twenties thirties? I was looking for a "Trophy Wife!"

 

Flash foward into my Fifties?

 

I really don't care if I ever get laid again in my life? But I would be really upset if Mrs Gunny wasn't my Wife! :love: :love: :love:

[GoneDaddyGone]

Tough love coming as my take on your long and detailed post(s) is simply that, due to your lack of participation on almost every level, you haven't been a candidate for marriage for the last 15 years. Emotionally distant, sexually inactive, completely withdrawn - not a recipe for success. Your marriage is probably over.

 

Exactly! For over 15 years I didn't take responsibility for what happened. My wife always made the choices so if I was unhappy I told myself it was her fault. Classic passive-aggressive victimization at work. I never asserted myself to make me happy. I never figured out what I wanted. I blamed her for not wanting sex with her and my constant stream of numbing activities. I told myself I did them because of her and how she treated me. I would sulk around because she didn't understand me, yet I didn't understand myself and talk to her about how I felt or make clear what I wanted. I would agree to what she wanted to do when I wanted to do something else and wouldn't directly tell her, but say things like, "Ok, whatever." I have no ability to express my anger in a healthy way. It either is off or out of control. I felt so dependent on her and resented being that way but never worked to be independent.

 

 

So now my immediate job is how to change 42 years of this type of behavior. Not just for me, but like you say, for the kids. The first step I've taken is to have the kids on my own for a week and be responsible as possible for their well being. This is an exciting and exhilarating step for me. Just taking them grocery shopping was an amazing (yet sad for how long it's taken to implement) step. It should have been something I did long ago. Just doing it proves to myself that I am capable and boosts my self esteem slightly. I'm finally doing other amazingly simple things like having a bank account of my own and depositing my own checks. Things I haven't done since I got into a relationship with my wife and acquiesced all control and responsibility for my life.

[Mr. Lucky]

That's good news but what are you doing to understand the underlying factors that painted you into such an unhealthy corner? Counseling can be an incredibly uplifting experience because you unburden yourself of all the crap you've been carrying with you for years. Chance to be a better person, better Father and someday a better partner in a relationship. To my way of thinking, for you that should be Job One...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Eggplant]

For over 15 years I didn't take responsibility for what happened.

The fact that you are manning up and accepting responsibility is commendable. People screw up, but a lot of them take no responsibility. Is it happening now because she's finally leaving?

 

I am so sorry about your sex issue. Did you never have an honest talk about your performance anxiety? Was your wife not willing to work with it? If my beloved were having this problem, I cannot imagine yelling at him or belittling him for it. Her reaction was extremely insensitive. But it was probably because she didn't understand the underlying problem because you never explained it to her. She simply felt you didn't care about her and were going to let her go to waste.

 

One more question. You mention being a "sex addict"? Was that a typo? Because the rest of your post talks about avoiding sex and living a sexless life... Or were you unfaithful?

[GoneDaddyGone]

I have the kids with me for a week. Taking care of them has been better for me than a lot of the counseling. Talking and unburdening is good, but even better is just manning up and doing the things I always wanted to do but felt I was incapable of such as grocery lists and fixing lunches and dinners. Being happy with myself and having their relationships and love show me what I need to focus on.

 

Sex addiction might be the wrong term. It is specifically Pornography Addiction. It isn't disinterest in sex so much as a misplaced sex drive focus that is more like self medicating drug use. Apparently prolonged addiction also results in erectile dysfunction especially if used to escape dealing with emotional issues and the feedback loop of shame like I had. Therapy and group sessions have been a help here.

 

To understand what happened I've been contemplating and going to therapy. Lots of talking.

 

I recently asked my wife to let me know when she doesn't want to talk to me rather than just saying "It's fine" when I ask her if it's OK to talk. She answered that she wasn't going to tell me when she didn't want to talk just because I wanted her to.

[Gunny376]

Sounds like to me you need to re-wire your brain housing group, pull back and re-group, re-priortize your priorties and get your act together before its too late.

[Mint Sauce]

She answered that she wasn't going to tell me when she didn't want to talk just because I wanted her to.

 

That's a very aggressive statement from her side...

 

What were you like before you got into a relationship with her? What made you withdraw? Were you possibly mismatched in her being very direct/aggressive, and you being much more fragile and careful? Her attempts at resurrection of your sex life sound very direct and energetic. Perhaps that is not the way you function?

[GoneDaddyGone]

That's a very aggressive statement from her side...

 

What were you like before you got into a relationship with her? What made you withdraw? Were you possibly mismatched in her being very direct/aggressive, and you being much more fragile and careful? Her attempts at resurrection of your sex life sound very direct and energetic. Perhaps that is not the way you function?

 

That statement was an eye opener for me. Not just aggressive, but showing how she was treating the separation situation as a sort of game. She's also taken off the rings and acted like I was crazy when I said how it shows me she's done with the marriage.

 

She is aggressive, but not assertive. When she feels like she is entitiled to something she goes after it with a tenacity. If she feels wronged she will be as blunt as a hammer in letting you and everyone else know.

 

What was I like before I met her? That's a question I've been pondering myself lately. I was more assertive and social that's for sure, but I am also the sort that can let other people get their way if it makes them happy. I am fragile/careful in that I'm more sensitive to what other people think (or what I project other people as thinking. Classic mind reading.) and wanted more sensitivity from her. That can be a good thing if you have boundaries but I think in my relationship with my wife I went too far in an attempt to make her happy. It became a case where no one was happy that she was getting her way while I and no longer fought to make room for my interests and desires and just withdrew. However, I don't think I was that much different by the point we got married. She knew what she was getting into (and so did I) by that point.

 

Her attempts at resurrecting our sex life were done with the same blunt aggressiveness she used in most of her life. She decided on her own to instigate the attempt hardly any preamble or discussion of the issue before or after. During the act her aggressiveness disappears. There's no indication of passion or enjoyment. This isn't a recent thing that I can put down to our years of emotional distance either.

[Mr. Lucky]

Her attempts at resurrecting our sex life were done with the same blunt aggressiveness she used in most of her life. She decided on her own to instigate the attempt hardly any preamble or discussion of the issue before or after. During the act her aggressiveness disappears. There's no indication of passion or enjoyment. This isn't a recent thing that I can put down to our years of emotional distance either.

GDG, you have a different way of looking at things. Perhaps she simply felt that, as husband and wife, intimacy should be a normal part of your relationship. Why would she discuss that very reasonable expectation before trying to have sex with you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[GoneDaddyGone]

GDG, you have a different way of looking at things. Perhaps she simply felt that, as husband and wife, intimacy should be a normal part of your relationship. Why would she discuss that very reasonable expectation before trying to have sex with you?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

That's a good question. I guess that I assumed that after years of issues we would have tried some foreplay or discussion before doing something. If she didn't want to do it I didn't try. When she decided to try I tried did best to come along for the ride and get it going again. Not hard enough obviously (no pun intended).

[Techie Artist]

Do you mind going into your perspectives on why you had no sex during your honeymoon and why you carry so much shame about it? I ask because I had a similar issue. The night of my wedding, we were both so dog tired that there was nothing but drool on the pillows. That's fine. But the next day we traveled to our honeymoon destination and I put on a pretty negligee, sat on the side of the bed, and waited for him to turn off the TV and gussy up. Never happened!

 

I'm a healthy, voluptuous, attractive woman, and I think I looked quite appetizing. Because I didn't want to "beg for it," I figured I'd give it another night. I changed into a plain gown and went to sleep. The next night, I didn't even bother. Don't remember exactly why, but I recall that I no longer felt desired. To this day I'll never forget it. I've carried it with me throughout our 10-year marriage. I wanted to go to MC, but he won't go with me. I can't tell him straight out because it'll just be dismissed or cause a fight.

 

Anyway, I was just trying to understand the man's perspective. Thanks...

[GoneDaddyGone]

Do you mind going into your perspectives on why you had no sex during your honeymoon and why you carry so much shame about it? I ask because I had a similar issue. The night of my wedding, we were both so dog tired that there was nothing but drool on the pillows. That's fine. But the next day we traveled to our honeymoon destination and I put on a pretty negligee, sat on the side of the bed, and waited for him to turn off the TV and gussy up. Never happened!

 

I'm a healthy, voluptuous, attractive woman, and I think I looked quite appetizing. Because I didn't want to "beg for it," I figured I'd give it another night. I changed into a plain gown and went to sleep. The next night, I didn't even bother. Don't remember exactly why, but I recall that I no longer felt desired. To this day I'll never forget it. I've carried it with me throughout our 10-year marriage. I wanted to go to MC, but he won't go with me. I can't tell him straight out because it'll just be dismissed or cause a fight.

 

Anyway, I was just trying to understand the man's perspective. Thanks...

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can try to give you my perspective. I had a healthy sex life before her and she was definitely interested in me. The lack of sex happened a couple years before we got married so we pretty much didn't even try on the honeymoon because we didn't want to fight about it.

 

For a variety of reasons, like facing my fear and shame, I didn't want to admit that I had a problem. The shame comes from many places. One was not being able to perform and satisfy my partner. It also came from a sense that what it is to be a man is to take the lead in the bedroom or do it on demand (or later without notice, an issue I had which Mr Lucky seems to feel is not warranted.) My manhood was in question. This lead to fear of talking about it or anxiety of having sex. It became a secret issue. We didn't want to talk about it with anyone. This lead to a downward spiral. I could see how unhappy it made my wife and the pain that it cause her lead to her aggressive anger and more defensiveness on my part.

 

She has recently told me what you are echoing now. She didn't feel desired because of my issues and unwillingness to talk. She felt that she was the problem I would assume that although you and your husband's situation is different than ours that there is some of what I mentioned above going on. The dismissal and defensiveness likely comes from fear and unwillingness to face the shame. Men are generally unwilling to talk about feelings or fears especially something that is considered to be a lack of manhood.

 

The only solution I can suggest based on my experience is developing good communication. This is something I never did. He needs to work on talking about it obviously, but in my case I also needed to have someone who I felt wanted to listen to me. I know it could be hard if you have a lot of pain or built up resentment from the rejection, but hopefully you still can do that for the relationship.

 

For me this realization is too late, I'm facing my issues but my wife doesn't want to listen. She's walled up and has had years of pain and festering resentment. I hope it's not too late for you and yours.

[annaballerina]

I'm sorry for your Sexual anxiety I do sympathize but you made a huge mistake not discussing it with your wife and working on it. You can't blame her after years of rejection and yes I do call it that because you could've got help for it knowing the pain it was causing your wife. I don't know your marriage but one thing I do know is when you value something you do everything you can to hold onto it and you had ample opportunity.

You can't blame her for reaching out to another man. She's been living an empty spouseless life. She has every right to ask for an open marriage as much as it may hurt or you don't want.

She has a right to feel whole again.

By the sounds of it you know where you went wrong. I hope in your next relationship you will try harder

[annaballerina]

Forgot to add that it's only natural she disconnected with you in other areas like time spent together. Your foundation was full of cracks and collapsed. You can't build anything on a weak foundation

[annaballerina]

One other thing is that the shame shouldn't of been your troubles sexually but that you didn't communicate it and get help. If my hubbie came to me and told me this was an issue It would of been a great relief to me because he felt he could confide in me and that it wasn't me. When you don't communicate your spouse is left thinking the worst that it is them and they aren't desirable enough. There are so many ways to be sexual besides intercourse. Just knowing my hubbie wanted me would make me the happiest woman alive. I'd be there to support him in any way or shape. But he has not confided and there is no communication. That's where things unravel.

So don't think it was your performance or lack of. Most women if they know will support the man they're with IF they know.

[Techie Artist]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can try to give you my perspective. I had a healthy sex life before her and she was definitely interested in me. The lack of sex happened a couple years before we got married so we pretty much didn't even try on the honeymoon because we didn't want to fight about it.

 

For a variety of reasons, like facing my fear and shame, I didn't want to admit that I had a problem. The shame comes from many places. One was not being able to perform and satisfy my partner. It also came from a sense that what it is to be a man is to take the lead in the bedroom or do it on demand (or later without notice, an issue I had which Mr Lucky seems to feel is not warranted.) My manhood was in question. This lead to fear of talking about it or anxiety of having sex. It became a secret issue. We didn't want to talk about it with anyone. This lead to a downward spiral. I could see how unhappy it made my wife and the pain that it cause her lead to her aggressive anger and more defensiveness on my part.

 

She has recently told me what you are echoing now. She didn't feel desired because of my issues and unwillingness to talk. She felt that she was the problem I would assume that although you and your husband's situation is different than ours that there is some of what I mentioned above going on. The dismissal and defensiveness likely comes from fear and unwillingness to face the shame. Men are generally unwilling to talk about feelings or fears especially something that is considered to be a lack of manhood.

 

The only solution I can suggest based on my experience is developing good communication. This is something I never did. He needs to work on talking about it obviously, but in my case I also needed to have someone who I felt wanted to listen to me. I know it could be hard if you have a lot of pain or built up resentment from the rejection, but hopefully you still can do that for the relationship.

 

For me this realization is too late, I'm facing my issues but my wife doesn't want to listen. She's walled up and has had years of pain and festering resentment. I hope it's not too late for you and yours.

 

I am appreciative of your response. Thank you. I think my situation is similar in many ways, as my H is uncommunicative and dismissive when I attempt to talk to him about any issue. Although I carried the honeymoon rejection over these years, I had no idea the lack of intimacy wasn't me. It was a gut punch to my self esteem.

 

I did confide in a male friend who told me it sounded like he has sexual anxiety that he's not sharing. In retrospect, I can now see it. He also watches porn. I tried watching it with him (two separate occasions) to see if I might be a beneficiary of the event, but nothing. Hmm.

 

At this point, I've put up a wall to protect my self esteem. It's been so long that I have detached. I'm working on my D now. It wasn't just the sex for us. There are MANY other more pressing issues with clinical depression on his part. I'm not willling to burn my life waiting for him to decide whether he's going to fix himself. I'm in my prime. I'm intelligent. I'm beautiful. I'm self sufficient. I have two kids to protect and raise into decent citizens.

 

One thing I can share with you is that once a "normal" woman starts to pack up, she's gone. She concludes that she has tried to reach the man from every angle and that it's of no use. This is called the point of no return. It's the VERY RARE occasion that she sticks around.

 

You should seek IC and let her know that you're working on yourself. This may be the hope that shows (demonstrates to) her that she should stick around.

[Mr. Lucky]

It also came from a sense that what it is to be a man is to take the lead in the bedroom or do it on demand (or later without notice, an issue I had which Mr Lucky seems to feel is not warranted.)

Had she given you the notice you seem to feel you needed - "24 hours from now I'd like to have sex" - what would you have done? Run away? Told he no? Not surprising she sprung it on you...

 

Mr. Lucky