Is it worth it?

[Breathe]

I think it boils down to we know what we want, but are we getting what we need? For me, I've always put my H ahead of myself, and even the kids. This affair stuff made me realize that I need to think about me for a change and what makes me happy. I wanted one thing - but I wasn't getting it and because of the past I would never get it. The truth hurts us and yet we can't change what we don't acknowledge.

 

He was able to lie about little things, and huge things and for so long and to the people that loved him the most. I don't want to be involved with a man that is capable of such harsh things. He will do it again, I don't think he's learned any lesson in any of this. He's out for himself and only himself, it doesn't matter who he hurts to get want he wants. He played us both. Looking back at phone records and such (they had a LDR) when we were on the outs, he'd contact her. When they had problems, he was closer to me. He lied to her, he lied to me. We were just toys to him. My only regret is that she and I didn't communicate and figure out what he was doing and call him on it.

 

No one but the player wins at a game such as this. The posts on the forum have really helped me to except this truth. We need to do what is best for us as we can only make ourselves happy.

[izzybelle]

brandx and dazed -

good to hear a man's perspective. and brandx you hit the nail right on the head as to why i ended my marriage and i am definitely a better single mom than i was a married one. dazed, i understand the stigma and problems that can result for kids in a "boken home" but mine 11 and 13 have weathered the storm. someone told me recently that my daughter is one of the happiest kids they've ever met. and consider, what makes a home broken? is it because parents live in different houses? or is it broken wneh there's no love and no trust left? pesonally, i think it's better for the kids to have, ultimately, and it takes time, 2 happy parents in 2 homes than 2 parents in 1 home that are unhappy.....

 

breathe - kudos to you for doing something for yourself! i caught so much grief from people when i walked away from my marriage, but i had to do it for me, not for my h, not for my kids but for me. i couldn't subject anyone, especially myself, to my misery any longer. it was time to take charge and even if it meant being alone, then that was the way it would be and i have no regrets.

[DazednConfused]

Izzy-

 

Again, divorce is easier to contemplate as a woman. I have little doubt that my 15 yr old daughter would be fine; in fact she says I should divorce her mom if I want to, she would have no hard felings.

 

In this state, the children do not get say in who they are going to live with until they are 18. So guess what? I would be reduced a weekend dad. That ain't me. No way.

 

It most definately would be easier if I had the luxury of saying "At least i will still have my kid." I do not have that. I could petition for custody, but would lose. My wife is a good mother.

 

<sigh> I realize children adjust, I just do not wish to throw away my daily relationship w/ her.

 

Don't wanna "cut off the nose to spite the face.."

[Breathe]

Yes, the trust is gone. Never will be the same. So I throw her out and eventually date again; do you really think I will ever fully trust anyone as I did her? Doubt it. So, if this is true, and I know I am damaged goods for life.... is it fair to inflict my baggage onto a new woman? I just don't think it would be right or fair to an unsuspecting woman out there, because I would never be able to truly give her all of myself.

 

For me, dating anyone even around my own age is going to have some sort of baggage himself. Most people my age have kids, have been married, divorced, some several times.... they have dealt with heartache... we've all been "damaged" in some way. But I don't think that we should allow the past to control our futures. I will be able to trust again, maybe even love again - but I know now, that I'll be more cautious about things and more selective (picky) in a person I chose to date.... if I ever get to that point.

 

most of them are just looking to supplement what is not right with their marriage by something outside of it. Once they look outside, I don't see them ever finding wholeness (if that is a word) within their marriage. If their first reaction is not to look within the marriage and work there, than it never will be I don't think.

 

I agree with you on this. It's sad but true - and truth does hurt. If you don't want to work on the problems "within" the marriage then get out, then go do what you want with whom you want.

 

We all have different ways of dealing with things and I think for a lot of us that have had to deal with infidelity within the marriage - and stayed marriage - we clung to the hope that things would/will get better. The hope that it would NEVER happen again. The hope for this, and for that. It's not just the love, but the hope, the faith, the kids, the history, the financial aspect.... many reasons. But it all comes out in the end to how much can we handle? How long can we go on with being unhappy and not being able to trust.

[izzybelle]

dazed, i understand what you mean about wanting what's best for your daughter. doesn't your state have shared custody? of course both people have to agree to it. my ex and i split 50/50 (in theory anyway). your reasons sound like a valid reason for that type of arrangement. my ex, although he stated those same reasons, were not honest. he has them approx. 50% of the time and actually pays attention to them about 50% of the time he has them. i believe that he wanted to convince his then girlfriend, now fiance who wants kids, that he was a good dad. he tries as best he can but he's too selfish to ever put anyone else's needs above his own. my kids have tried to talk to him about his lack of attention as have other friends. it gets better for a few days and then back to the way it was. that said, my kids didn't have to choose, nor did the courts choose for us.

 

if she was agreeable, to be honest, it doesn't really matter what the courts say. just because the "paper" says she has custody, it doesn't mean that you can't see your daughter more than just on the weekends. but.... she has to be agreeable to it and really want to put what's best for your child first.

 

i'm not sure divorce is easier to contemplate as a woman. i suppose in many cases it is because it is more typical that we get custody but being a woman and giving up financial stability, like i did, was not an easy decision. i gave up a lot to get my freedom, but it was worth every penny of it.

[Cis]

Wow - this thread is making my very depressed!

 

I guess all I can say is what my therapist and I spoke about today....marriage is a commitment to a process. And that is what I am doing - committing to the process. Just beginning to I am still hopeful.

 

Lone- I was the foolish person who betrayed my husband. I feel as if I have lost my innocence. It was so foolish and dumb. The object of my desire was so wrong for me - I guess I was needing someone to make me feel pretty, sexy and alive. I guess I was bored.

 

I totally regret what I did. I regret it because I've forever lost an important part of who I thought I was (loyal, honest and sincere). So at age 50 I now have more than one regret that I will take to my grave.

 

Cis

[Breathe]

When infidelity is in your marriage and your trying to work on the marriage - who do you think it's harder on?

 

I kind of think it's harder on the one that didn't commit the adultery, mainly because we sit back wondering are they still talking, seeing each other - if they did it once, they can do it again... and so on. While the one that did the crime - knows what they are doing. They don't have to guess, wonder or assume anything, they know what is true and what is not. IMHO.

 

Do you think that the ones that commit adultery live in fear "waiting for the payback" that their spouse will cheat?

 

I've heard this before from couples and wondered how many actually do "payback" and why? Did it make them feel better? Worse? Did it cause more problems in the marriage or did it even out the score of things?

[LoneStar49]

Breathe, I'm like you and would suspect infidelity would be harder on the person that didn't commit the adultry. Like you said, the betrayor knows where they were, where they are, and where they're going in the future, but the betrayed person is always left to wonder and doubt. Now, from all of my reading, it is does occasionally happen that the betrayor seems to be truly sorry, but more often it seems, their "sorry" feelings stem from the threatened loss of home, money, security, etc. I'm not so certain their true feelings of "sorry" stem from the loss of the relationship with their spouse. As for the payback issue, I really haven't read anything about that, but I'm certain it does happen. I think it would be rather normal for the betrayed spouse to feel, at some point, what's good for the goose...but acting on those feelings would be something entirely different. Remember that thread on "Revenge?" We all think of these horrible things we'd like to do, but most of us don't act on those thoughts.

 

Now, though, that has made me wonder about something. I can see where a once betrayed person might enter into an affair later - maybe even years later - but I'm not so certain it would be for the purpose of payback as much as it would be because the foundation of the relationship was broken. And honestly, from all that I've read, it just doesn't seem that once that foundation is cracked, it can ever be fully repaired. I'm sure there are exceptions out there, and as someone said, I'm only reading about those that have posted on various forums so that may not be a good sample, but even in the books I've read, it seems to hold true.

 

Cis, I'm sorry this thread is causing you to feel depressed. That's the last thing you need right now, I'm sure, since it was low feelings that lead you to the affair in the first place. Hopefully, you haven't lost those important things you thought were a part of you (loyal, honest, sincere), but only misplaced them for a while. It would seem to me that until you can get those feelings of self-worth back, your spouse can't begin to appreciate you for all that you are now - post-affair. I am interested though, in what you said about your comment that "marriage is a committment to a process" and you are just beginning to commit to the process. What did you mean by that? Are you just now beginning to commit to the marriage? I wasn't clear on your comments.

[izzybelle]

cis, i too am curious what you meant by saying that committing to the process.

 

don't be depressed by all of what some of us have said here. each relationship is different, some problems and situations can be worked through and some cannot. i know when i was serously considering ending my marriage some told me to recognize the fact that relationships change over time. and they do. my situation and the situation of some i have witnessed, that makes them, more or less hopeless, is when the relationship and more importantly the people, have changed in drastically different directions. i would guess that many of us have, either as teenagers or older, said those words "i'll do anything to keep you in my life." do we really mean that or is it just a statement said out of desparation? i know i heard myself say those words to my MM when he first had told me he was seriously considering going back to his loveless marriage. did i mean it? doubtful. because if i have to give up too much of myself to make a relationship work, eventually i know i'd regret having to change so drastically for someone else. if however, i knew that there was something either i had done wrong, or could do differently to make a situation work, but could still keep "myself" then it makes sense. does that make sense?

 

in spite of the fact that i've witnessed, many failing marriages that i believe weren't worth saving, there are definitely those that are. some problems can be overcome, disgressions forgotten, whatever may be the case as long as there is still some foundation to work from. unfortunately infidelity can shake that foundation and in some cases destroy it. without love or trust, what is left? and more importantly, is it worth it for the people involved to work so hard to rebuild that? especially if there are no kids or older kids involved, does having to work so hard at something make sense? and in the case of my MM, i believe part of the reason he went back was because of the threats that his wife made to try and destroy the relationship he has with his kids. much as a relationship based on lies isn't a good way to start, i think one based on fear is one of the sadest situations that someone can be involved in. nor do i believe in staying together just because of the vows that were made. don't get me wrong, i think those words are important, as we say them in front of our friends and family, but ultimately it's our actions, not our words that should be what keeps us together. saying "for better or for worse" is an important committment to make. but when i hear things like what my MM told me that he believed that meant sharing the good and the bad and everything in between. but he felt that the only thing he had been sharing with his wife, for years, was watching his marriage fail. which leaves me so confused as to why he's suddenly changed his tune so drastically.

 

no, relationships are never easy and they all require intense work.

[LoneStar49]

Originally posted by izzybelle

 

without love or trust, what is left? and more importantly, is it worth it for the people involved to work so hard to rebuild that?

 

I think izzy finally hit on the question that has been lurking in my brain, but I haven't been able to put into words. Thank you, izzy!

 

How can there be much real value or purpose in any relationship if the parties involved have to work so hard on that relationship. It seems to me the real relationship would be lost in the process of the hard work. And I mean all relationships - these marriage triangles or even relationships between single men/single women. Relationships...sure, they always require work, but to have to work so hard and for so long?

 

A few years ago I had a job that I absolutely loved. Blessed my lucky stars everyday that I had finally found a job that I did so well and that I loved! Literally...could not wait to get up and go to work everyday. It was hard work, but I loved it so much, it was more like fun. And I had a boss that most people would have died for. She could not have been more wonderful. Sure, there were "days", but those "days" were about like 1 bad day for every 60 good days! And they paid me big bucks to do this job! Then...a couple of years go by and due to some company issues, I was having to work much harder. Not a problem. I loved the job. Before long, I was having to work really hard - day in and day out. OK...my boss was hanging in there with me and we still had fun doing the job. But eventually, after about a year, I found myself hating the job. I realized it had consumed me. They were paying me even bigger bucks, I was getting tons of praise, I was learning all kinds of new things, I had autonomy as I'd never had it before, but somewhere in there - I lost me. I found myself being nothing more than "the job." I was working so hard for the relationship (the company) that I had nothing left over for myself. It was a gradual process, but each day, I woke up hating to go to work just a little more than the day before until eventually, I would stand in the shower and cry as I tried to get dressed - knowing that at the end of the long day, I would have spent another day investing all I had in "the relationship" but in the end, I'd be sucked dry and left with nothing more than a shell of who I was. And finally, the big bucks, the praise, the wonderful boss, the autonomy...none of it was worth it. I wanted me back.

 

Was the hard work worth it? To a point, yes. But after working so hard for so long, the answer became no. It was no longer fun and enjoyable. It was "just work."

[izzybelle]

lonestar, nice analogy. when a relationship becomes something that we just feel we do because we're supposed to or have to, it really loses something. when my marriage was at it's worst, work was my refuge and luckily i loved my job. being in my office was more comfortable to me than being home with my H and unfortunately my kids. as stressful as work was, i was happier here than home. so finally when i woke up enough to realize what i was doing to myself and my kids i knew it was over. as difficult a decision as it was, i had to do it. home should be someplace i wanted to be not someplace i went because i felt i had to..... many people feel that way about their jobs, not their marriage!