Is it worth it?

[LoneStar49]

I've been doing hours and hours of reading here and on other forums about affairs. In fact, that's about all I've done the past couple of weeks - trying to understand what drives and motivates people, including myself.

 

One of the things that I keep reading over and over is how these betrayed spouses have to "work" so hard at trusting again and "getting the feelings back" and that type of thing. It seems they all live their lives on an hourly basis questioning their spouses, either outright, or through other means (tapping into e-mail, phone messages, etc.) and for many, there are second and sometimes even third D-days. In all of the reading I've done, most others respond by saying that the betrayed spouse will never get over it, it will always be an issue and other similar things, but encourage them to "hang in there" and to hold the marriage together - seemingly at their own emotional expense. Many write about how, months, and even years later, they are still dealing with these issues. Over and over I've read the same comments - I don't feel the same. I'll never love him/her the same. Everyday is a struggle to get through. It's been X number of years, and I still think of it everyday. I/he/she still has these "triggers." Not a single time have I read anything to indicate that the affair "helped" the marriage o relationship in any way.

 

So that leaves me wondering why someone - man or woman - would want to "save" or "salvage" a relationship for that type of outcome. Personally, I can't imagine living day in and day out with someone that I knew I could never trust again, nor could I live in a relationship in which those "feelings" were not present. What would be the point? Is all of this hard work really worth it in the end and if so, why? What does the betrayed spouse really gain? What kind of relationship could it be when you have to work so hard at the basics? Would it be worth it to get out of bed every morning wondering if he or she was "comparing" me to the OP? Or sitting there wondering if he or she was wishing they were really with the OP? Or a myriad of other thoughts. I understand that relationships have to be worked at, but just the normal day in and day out aspects of working on any relationship are hard enough, but when compounded by an affair, it just doesn't seem worth it in the end, because everything I've read indicates these people are never really happy again. In one forum I've been reading, there is a section for those that are those who are "beyond the initial trauma and are now dealing with legacy issues, after the first year and sometimes later in recovery. It is designed to be a safe place that is free from constant reminders of the initial trauma," but even there, 1, 2, 3 or more years out, these people are dealing with the same issues.

 

Again, I can't help but wonder if ultimately most people wouldn't be better off to end the relationship and at least try to find happiness with someone else. Comments?

[MMBastard]

Well, kids are always a big part of the answer......many will hang in there for the kids. My honest opinion is nobody should stay in a loveless relationship just for the sake of kids. I guess the other part of the reason is just getting "comfortable" in the relationship, no matter what it's like. Most people, once in long term relationships, settle for a relationship without much emotional involvement, more or less taking it for granted......It's like "well this is what it's supposed to be so what the hell". And then again, some are just plain scared of getting out there and doing it all over again.

 

As for your question whether it's worth it.....I dunno, it's a very subjective area.......for some it is (for whichever reason), for some it's not and they go on.........I don't think there is a straight answer to that.

[LoneStar49]

I'm not certain you understood my points, MM, or I didn't convey them well.

 

As for staying in a relationship for the kids, I can understand that to some degree though that would not be my choice. I absolutely do not understand what you mean by just getting "comfortable" because that is exactly what I'm talking about. These people that have been betrayed are NOT comfortable in any sense of the word. Also, talking about the lack of emotional involvement, it would seem that many of these affairs are started because of lack of emotional involvement, but then, after the affair, the emotional involvement really isn't there other than on some perverse level of trying to "save" the relationship. Or maybe it would be better stated to say that the emotional involvement of the relationship is so buried in trying to "save" the relationship, in spite of the doubt, lack of trust, and worry that there doesn't seem to be room for much more than the salvation of what for many ends up being an empty relationship. And, too, from all that I've read, although these affairs don't necessarily "end" in divorce, apparently a large percentage of marriages do end further down the road - 4-5 years later - but at that point, it isn't deemed as the actual result of the affair. In reality, it is because the life blood of the relationship was sucked out as a result of the affair. Just a slow death.

 

Making sense?

[MMBastard]

These people that have been betrayed are NOT comfortable in any sense of the word

 

Comfortable in a sense they would rather stay in the relationship, regardless of the affair, that go out there and seek out something new. I guess once in a long, long relationship things such as "being in love", trust and other "basics" or "essentials" we so seek in relationship are put on the backburner while stuff such as financial and other security, kids etc. take over being essential. I don't know, just my thoughts....I may be wrong - I am a man after all......

[LoneStar49]

Originally posted by MMBastard

Comfortable in a sense they would rather stay in the relationship, regardless of the affair, that go out there and seek out something new. I guess once in a long, long relationship things such as "being in love", trust and other "basics" or "essentials" we so seek in relationship are put on the backburner while stuff such as financial and other security, kids etc. take over being essential. I don't know, just my thoughts....I may be wrong - I am a man after all......

 

Well, something tells me you are wrong - at least partly, but since I don't know the answer who's to say? What is making me think you are "wrong" about some of this is the comment on trust. From all I've read, trust is the one thing that never returns. Even the financial, other securities, and kids don't seem worth the turmoil these people go through - especially the "other securities." It just doesn't seem like there are many "other securities" for them since many seem to be living day by day wondering if that spouse is going to suddenly walk out one day, start another affair, or other such things.

 

Maybe it's just something I'll never understand, but I don't think it is anything I could do or would even want to do.

[izzybelle]

lonestar-

your questions are some of the things that are really puzzling me about why my MM chose to stay in his marriage and more importantly why his W has chosen to as well.

 

supposedly he had an affair about 10 years ago, and from what he told me his marriage had been loveless for about the last 5-6. that she had stated frequently that she was leaving when their youngest left this summer for college. some of that changed and was postponed for a year so she had wanted to hang in there for one more year. she had even, supposedly, talked to an attorney.

 

i understand, keeping things together for one more year (sort of). but i never agree that staying together just for the kids is the right thing to do. i tried to do that and ended up probably doing more damage to my kids by staying than by leaving and i wish i'd left my marriage sooner. my kids dealt with it well and i think are happier having their mom "back." when i asked my MM why they were chosing to try and work things out his response.... "because of what we've been through." that's probably the lamest thing i've ever heard, and i told him that. not because they really do love each other and not because they really want to make it work but because of history?!?! so, i'm left wondering. don't know if he's lying to me....

 

one of the messages i got from her was that "it was not his first affair and wouldn't be his last." if i personally felt this way that guy, no matter how much i loved him, would find himself on the curb as quickly as i could throw his stuff there.

 

so yes, it all puzzles me as well. i think he's afraid. he's afraid she'll try to ruin his relationship with his kids although because of their ages i doubt she could do that. i think he's afraid of starting over, i think he's afraid of being alone. so yes, in some ways as bad as his situation is and as uncomfortable as a loveless marriage might be he's "comfortable" there, knows what happens day to day, can go "home" to a place and people who are familiar.... makes no sense to me at all!!!

 

izzy

[LoneStar49]

It is confusing to me, izzy, and perhaps something I may never understand. C'est la vie! All I know is that I'm not the type that could ever be comfortable in the type of relationship you described - the day in and day out stuff. There's more to life and I want more from it than that sort of existence. In some respects, that's the reason I'm in the jam I'm in now. (and yes, I do contradict even myself somewhat) I was never the "perfect" OW and I continuously fought against being in that position of having to wonder, question, worry, doubt. And I must admit, I raised quite a bit of hell (some would say a bunch!) along the way, and more times than I can count, would say - MAKE A DECISION! And he would, only to renig on that decision. Even that - being in a non-decisive state - is more than I could bear.

 

Where the contradiction ends for me, though, is at the point of the way he went about doing this. I'm exceedingly angry and bitter over the tactics used. Not the ultimate decision as much as the tactics. He knew that if he simply told me, "Done! Finished!" that I would never cross his path again. Why put someone through unnecessary agony. And the irony, from all that I've read, is that I would bet money on the fact that his relationship with his wife will be a 1000 times worse than it was even in the beginning. He'll eventually leave, I have no doubt. But certainly, she is one of those that will hang in there - living life miserably - until the day he finally walks out. It's all really sad when you think about it. My agony the past two weeks has been the worst of my life, but I think I've taken a baby step (teeny-tiny) across the line. I think I'm feeling better - just a tad. But there misery is just beginning and will likely go on much longer than mine. Must admit...I derive some small element of satisfaction from that thought. He has to get up and look in the mirror every day and I'd bet he hates himself. She has to get up and look at him every day and wonder if this will be the day he'll call me. Me? I only have to get up and look at myself, and when I do, I can look myself square in the eyes and say...yeah, it happened, but you know, I really did care. That isn't so terribly bad.

[izzybelle]

lonestar -

so much of what you say rings so true. i've lost track of how long it's been since things ended. i used to post here under a different name and when i mentioned to him one day that i'd found help on line, i could tell he was uncomfortable with me posting our "story" out there somewhere that his wife might see. so i removed myself from the system. i was still so much trying to do everything "right" in his eyes to try and save our relationship. since then i've realized that i could care less if his wife sees this and i could care less if it makes him uncomfortable, if this helps me, then right now that's what matters most.

 

although i know i brought a lot of my angony on myself, it is his tactics, as well, that have really pi**ed me off at this point too. he never told me NC, he told me he had agreed he wouldn't but that i could be in touch. and he would always thank me for calling. needless to say as i've gotten stronger our conversations have changed and i'm now at the point where i just need to get it all out in the open with him, in person, for me to have peace and be able to move on. so many times he told me he didn't want to lose "us" that i was important to him, that his feelings hadn't changed for me but he needed to "get through this." that all started happening back in april. it's just been about a month ago that he informed me that he was now committed to giving his marriage one more try. this after telling me he was done trying, his marriage wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, that trying to save his marriage was like trying to move the empire state building, etc. etc.

 

recently i had to have a major medical test to see if my cancer had come back and he knew i was freaking out about it. i asked him to be there as a friend, nothing else, that i could talk to vent to and just know he was there supporting me from a distance. although i got the impression he would, because he said he still loved me.... he seemed to care less what was happening to me. said he did but the actions, or lack there of, spoke volumes. he has only begun to understand how much that hurt (even more than him ending things) and ultimately how angry that's made me.

 

i have no doubt that he's nervous about talking to me, i'm nervous too, but i know i have to do it or i will forever have these nagging feelings in my head and heart. like you, i will never understand why things happened the way they did. i haven't seen him since the beginning of may so it will be interesting. i really doubt that much of anything he's ever said to me was true. he says it was and that he hasn't lied to me. of course, i think that's a lie too. i need my face to face encounter so i can read his face and body language and come to terms that i think he's just a lying sack of sh**!

[LoneStar49]

Well, izzy, I sincerely hope you get the closure you are hoping for. That will do so much to help you in the end. You mentioned you need to read his face and body language to come to terms with whether he was lying to you or not. Just remember, he has apparently lied to you for quite some time and you didn't read it then, so don't be so certain you will read it with any degree of accuracy now. And please, make no mistake. I am not being even remotely critical of what you feel you need to do. I've been in that very precise spot far too many times. I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that I would have staked all I held near and dear on the fact that Mr. XXX would never do to me what he has done. I was obviously terribly wrong.

 

This is interesting, though and part of the point I was trying to make:

it's just been about a month ago that he informed me that he was now committed to giving his marriage one more try. this after telling me he was done trying, his marriage wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, that trying to save his marriage was like trying to move the empire state building, etc. etc.

 

On all of these other boards I've been reading, this is a common thing, but over and over, I've read nothing but pain and heartache (heartbreak?) when these "one more tries" are attempted. I have not read one single solitary post that said that things (life, love, sex) were back to normal, nor have I read a single post that indicated the marriage was "stronger" as a result. Honestly, what I'm beginning to believe is that the betrayed spouse lures the other back through some sort of guilt/pity. The betrayer stays due to guilt, but in the meantime, the betrayed spouse slowly loses any connection that might have been there. In my opinion, these marriages are doomed - if not to divorce, then to a lifetime of misery. I'd rather be single than wake up every morning wondering if today was the day. Or to sit across the room from my spouse wondering if they were thinking of the OP.

[VivianLee]

First of all, you'd be surprised how many people choose to stay, especially if it's the first time (they know of) that it's happened....

 

I look back now and I think if I had my head on straight when my husband confessed to talking to this woman when we were dating, first 2 years of our marriage (during my pregnancy and having our baby) and then started back for a year before they cheated, I would have NOT gotten back with him. In my mind, I feel like I was also his second choice. But only because he was being silly and stupid about a teenage love affair that was halted due to his moving away. He is very romantic so what hurts me is that he romantized about this woman for 14 yrs. He found out (during our separation and his continued contact) that she wasn't someone he wanted to be with (she'd been married 3 times already) but it took his cheating and dealing with her to realize it.

 

My husband is the sweetest, kindest and most religious person I know. He was a minister when this happened, he was MY minister. I was so shocked at his revelation of having sex with her and longing for her all those years then the fact she was at least 700 miles away, married 3 times and had 4 kids that I felt I needed to save him from her. Also, our belief is that living in adultry will send you to HELL! Plus, I realized I really loved him and didn't want to lose him!!

I went way beyond what I should have to work things out......I woke up a year later and realized I was the one betrayed but I made all the sacrifices to make the marriage work. Our sex life wasn't great (I remember sobbing in the shower thinking, he'd risk his soul to have sex with her but he doesn't want me), he wouldn't communicate at the time (I was begging for love notes, e-mails and adoration) so one day, I felt it in my heart, something died, it wasn't my love as much as my will.....

 

On top of all that, I had the "triggers" that made me remember the affair. The worse of all triggers is the fact she and I share the same name. I wouldn't and couldn't let him call me by name when he would say he loved me. I had the wonderful experience of him being away on a business trip on the very date he was away a year earlier and slept with that woman. So many things triggered it. I was getting counseling but we weren't getting couple's counseling.....that may have been the biggest problem.....

 

5 months after whatever that was died.....I started my affair. Wanna know something sick?? I completely could deal with his affair during that time. I didn't have triggers, I felt even more love and happiness with him!! I could deal with his affair when having my affair. What bothers me the most about my affair is that I did to another woman what was done to me. I remember saying, that I wouldn't have my worst enemy feel the way I did and here I went and caused an innocent woman the same feelings. Was it revenge?? Sadly that is very possible.....

 

Was it worth it to stay? Maybe now it is. We are both cheaters so I guess misery loves company. I will never look at him the same way I did before I found out he cheated. I haven't worn my wedding ring since that day nor have I allowed him to wear his. I feel like those vows we took were broken (twice) and that, that part of our lives, died.

 

I love my husband. He is special to me and I want him to be happy and have a good life. But I'm never 100% happy in my marriage anymore, I never feel safe and secure that I can count on him (and I'm sure I've caused him to feel the same way too, which makes me even more sad). My innocence is totally lost now (of which we are both at fault) and that is something I can never get back. Currently I'm looking into couples counseling......

 

Can it be worth it? I guess so....maybe if the betrayed can gets shock treatments or become heavily sedated....no really, I have heard of some couples becoming happier and such.....

 

If I had to do it over again......I may have stayed long enough for him to get that woman out of his system (so my child wouldn't have "that" for a step-mother) then when I realized the marriage still wasn't where it needed to be, I'd left. Or maybe things would have improved had we had counseling together.....

[izzybelle]

lonestar -

the "odd" thing about my relationship with my MM has been that it's been 99% long distance. our relationship started in january, we've only been physically together 3 times. so most of my conversations have been email and phone so i haven't been able to see his face to know if he's lying or not. although i have no doubt that if he's a skilled lier (my ex was one) that he'll be able to hide it from me but i don't think so...... we'll see and i'll let you know how it goes. it's scheduled to happen on monday, we'll see if he shows up or not. i have to admit that part of me is so tempted, since she knows anyway, to talk to his wife, i'd really like to hear her side. but at the same time, i know my peace of mind does not justify my making his and her life more difficult. so as much as i'm tempted...

 

i agree with you about the potential for success in these situations. a man i'm friends with and had a brief encounter with told me similar things, but also that he needed to make sure that if he left his marriage that he felt that he was making the decision for all the right reasons. he didn't want 10 years from now to think that he'd given up for something/someone else, that it had to be because in his heart he knew his marriage was really over. in many ways that argument makes so much more sense to me and probably why that break-up although difficult was easier (i also wasn't as connected emotionally). but at the same time, i know and see him and his wife frequently. and a year + later i see the he** that he and hiw wife are going through while they're supposedly "trying", the sniping, the not doing things together, basically living separate lives under the same roof. and as far as i know she doesn't know that he had an affair, although i think he's having another now and i'd put money on the fact that she'd shove him out the door. i'm just thankful that i'm not involved. that one was a huge mistake on my part. my bad!!!

 

but as i was relating that story to my MM what i said to him was that if people have grown apart and have changed as people over the years, simply saying "we're going to try" doesn't automatically make them become the people they were 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago when they first fell in love. is it possible for them to fall in love again? maybe, but in most cases if the people they've become fell out of love with and are no longer attracted to the other person, how does simply saying that they'll try make sense. i know that counseling may help some but.... i don't believe research shows that there's even much success there. if people are just going through a minor "bump" in their relationship then maybe, but in so many of these cases these bumps have become the equivalent of mt. everest and may be insurmountable. as my father always used to say "fish or cut bait." in other words i think some are unwilling to admit defeat and will sit there in their boat, emotionally alone and paralyzed for years. so be it, they and my MM included are more than welcome to live the rest of their lives making each other miserable. that's their choice. i'm chosing and have chosen "happiness." i may be selfish, i don't care. life's too short and too precious to let others suck the life source out of us... our MMs included!!

[LoneStar49]

Wow, VivianLee! You really wrote some powerful stuff and exactly what I have been reading in other places. Although I've been a part of an affair, I can honestly have a degree of sympathy on all of these people, men and women, who have been so unfortunate as to lose that most special aspect of love and marriage. At least for myself, I might be able to go on and find someone else to love in the future, and someone to love me. Maybe not, but still, I won't have to live day-to-day with those sorts of feelings.

 

This is another common theme I've noticed in so many of the posts...

 

I went way beyond what I should have to work things out......I woke up a year later and realized I was the one betrayed but I made all the sacrifices to make the marriage work. Our sex life wasn't great (I remember sobbing in the shower thinking, he'd risk his soul to have sex with her but he doesn't want me), he wouldn't communicate at the time (I was begging for love notes, e-mails and adoration) so one day, I felt it in my heart, something died, it wasn't my love as much as my will.....

 

The betrayed spouse is working so hard to make things right, to do and say just the right things, to act the right way. Gosh! What pressure! And from what I'm beginning to gather, it's really all for naught. If the BS says one thing wrong, the spouse gets defensive and accusing, and then the BS is left to sit there wondering if he/she isn't "rushing" out to someone else. The one thing that I've read that I really believe is that no relatiionship really survives an affair - even though the couple may stay together. When I first read that, I didn't understand, but I think I'm beginning to.

 

Another thing I was thinking about as I sat in the mall having lunch a couple of days ago and watching people walk by is that approximately 60% of men have affairs. So there I sat, counting off men as they walked by and thinking six out of those ten on average. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, then that would mean that only about 10% of those marriages survive. Now...being the mathmatical genius I am. But you get the point.

[Cis]

A few thoughts....

 

Remember college statistic class? Or maybe it was psychology 101 .... something about self selection. The people who are here, seek out and write in these forums are people in the most pain. I'd bet we are more highly emotional, sensitive than most..don't know but just a guess.

 

I have a girlfriend who had an affair 15 years ago. It was her first and last. It was mostly an emotional affair, sex was not the issue. She was discovered. Her husband cried for a year and it took a long time for him to trust her again. She had to make many promises to win back his trust.

 

She said that she was so sorry that she almost risked everything. Her children, her home and her relationship with her husband. They are not a passionate couple, but they do seem happy. They share their grown children and love to travel.

 

My parents also had affairs. They are still together. They don't have the marriage I want, but they do genuinely care about each other and do implicitly trust each other...

 

So I think anything is possible. I want it to be possible because I too am trying to put back a marriage. I see some hope...

 

Cis

[LoneStar49]

Originally posted by izzybelle

if people have grown apart and have changed as people over the years, simply saying "we're going to try" doesn't automatically make them become the people they were 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago when they first fell in love. is it possible for them to fall in love again? maybe, but in most cases if the people they've become fell out of love with and are no longer attracted to the other person, how does simply saying that they'll try make sense. i know that counseling may help some but.... i don't believe research shows that there's even much success there. if people are just going through a minor "bump" in their relationship then maybe, but in so many of these cases these bumps have become the equivalent of mt. everest and may be insurmountable. as my father always used to say "fish or cut bait."

 

I so totally agree with this, izzy! Every relationship has "bumps in the road" be it lovers, friends or family. Shoot! Even my dogs and I have had "bumps" in our relationship! And maybe one of these one-night-stands are bumps. But much beyond that, it does seem that maybe too much water has gone under the bridge to ever salvage much more than a skeleton of the relationship.

 

I've learned so much in the past couple of weeks. Until now, I didn't know there was such a thing as an "emotional affair" or "physical affair." I thought an affair was an affair and I assumed that emotional and physical went hand in hand. Now, with definitions firmly planted in my brain, I can look back and see that Mr. XXX and I had an "emotional" affair long before any type of "physical affair" was even thought of. And, too, looking back, I'm beginning to understand what he meant by the attraction he felt for me long before I was ever aware of it. But, in part, that's the reason I know that it really isn't over. The emotional part will always be there and that is what will ultimately kill his marriage - even if I never see him again.

 

And yes, please do let us know how things turn out on Monday.

 

i'm chosing and have chosen "happiness." i may be selfish, i don't care. life's too short and too precious to let others suck the life source out of us... our MMs included!!

 

Good for you and good for us!

[VivianLee]

Your observations sound quite correct!!

 

However, I have said this before to someone on this forum....don't let statistics and failures cause you to give up on true love and marriage. I'd rather take the risk and hope to be one of those in the 10% range rather than never try. Being in love and loving someone is still worth it even if it brings pain.....

 

When my husband and I separated (during his affair), it really effected our church community. We were (and are now) active in alot of projects. One of the couples (an older couple in their 60's) knew of what had happened and the lady immediately wanted to talk to me....I had admired this couple for many years, they did so much work in churches and were so sound as Christians....

 

She went on to tell me that 40 years earlier her husband had had an affair. She told me all about it and how she handled it. I listened intently because I respected this woman and this couple immensly PLUS they were still married 40 years after an affair.....I was like a sponge, desperate to take in all she had to say so one day I'd look back and see myself giving the same advice 40 years later.....

 

I look back now and bless her heart, she gave the WORSE advice of all.....

 

Never bring it up (i.e. don't talk about it ever again)

 

Make sure I learn as much about sex as possible (you should do that anyway)

 

Do whatever he asked or it takes to get him to come back

 

Make sure I'm always what he wants no matter what I have to do to change

 

There were about a dozen things she told me and I listened.....

 

I tried to suppress and not bring it up but that wasn't me at all....so when I couldn't hold back talking.....instead of a civil conversation....I BLEW UP and cussed him out for hours (which is something I'd never done to him or really anyone)....

 

I did all these things (except suppress my anger) and eventually realized (after it was too late) that this was not the course to take....(we really, really should have gotten couple's counseling!!)....

 

Ya know, then I remember something about this lady....she is on strong, strong medicine because in the past 40 years, she's had numerous nervous breakdowns.....there are times she's just shut down......

 

Ummmmmm....yeah she's still married, he didn't cheat again BUT she's about lost her FREAKIN' mind!!!!

 

It's very possible had we gotten counseling on how he should handle me and the situation and how I should handle him and the situation, things would have gone positive from the get-go....

 

Had we not gotten back together, we would have never had the wonderful times with our daughter and her friends, the holidays, the new friendships we have now and many other positive and happy experiences....

 

So let's say, the way we went about it, wasn't worth it but if we can get our act together, maybe it can be.....there is still alot of potential in our marriage and maybe that means healing....I can't be positive....

[LoneStar49]

Originally posted by Cis

A few thoughts....

 

Remember college statistic class? Or maybe it was psychology 101 .... something about self selection. The people who are here, seek out and write in these forums are people in the most pain. I'd bet we are more highly emotional, sensitive than most..don't know but just a guess.

 

I have a girlfriend who had an affair 15 years ago. It was her first and last. It was mostly an emotional affair, sex was not the issue. She was discovered. Her husband cried for a year and it took a long time for him to trust her again. She had to make many promises to win back his trust.

 

She said that she was so sorry that she almost risked everything. Her children, her home and her relationship with her husband. They are not a passionate couple, but they do seem happy. They share their grown children and love to travel.

 

My parents also had affairs. They are still together. They don't have the marriage I want, but they do genuinely care about each other and do implicitly trust each other...

 

So I think anything is possible. I want it to be possible because I too am trying to put back a marriage. I see some hope...

 

Cis

 

You are right, Cis, that those posting in these forums are emotional and sensitive and this is not a good "control" group. However, in one of the forums I've been reading, there are people there that have been enduring the aftermath of affairs for years in some cases. And what about the random articles I've read in Psychology Today types of publications that deal with some of those same statistics. Last weekend, I sat in the floor at Half-Price Books for hours reading different books on these very issues. I don't know and I certainly don't profess to have the answers, but it has given me much food for thought.

 

As for your situation, how is it going? Were you the betrayor or the betrayee? Are you having difficulty putting your marriage back together? Do you ever wonder if the hard work is worth it? And...knowing that you will probably have to work so hard at this single aspect of marriage for the rest of your life (and as I said early on, there are so many other aspects of marriage that always need tweaking), do you ever feel you'll run out of energy or steam?

[izzybelle]

i'm sure it is possible to save the marriage but i do sincerely believe that some really aren't worth saving. that people are better off either alone or being freely given the chance to find someone else. like mine. my ex was and still is an emotional vampire. yes, i had issues too, but realized that it was impossible for me to deal with mine while he was in the picture. for as long as he was there, i would continue to be on that downward spiral. i got out and am slowly healing, it's a long process but one that is now happening whereas before i was stuck.

 

i know all relationships have their trying times and some will survive and some won't. one thing that my first MM had said to me was that he regretted getting married when he did. he wasn't "young" probably mid-late 20s but he said it wasn't until now, he's 40 (i think) that he realizes what he really wants in a "life partner." we never talked about whether or not that was me, it didn't matter and i wasn't even curious, but he made it clear that it wasn't his wife. as they got older their differences, life choices and life directions all pulled them further and further apart. when they were young and care free, with no kids, it was one thing but as responsibilities became greater so did their problems.

 

i know some people can change, they can fall in love again, they can live happy lives together. what makes me sad is watching all those couples i know that are staying together just because they think they should or because of the kids. here's a sad story..... my grandparents both died just recently. they had been married for 75 years. they were strange people, never affectionate with anyone and i never, ever saw them show any affection toward each other. earlier this year my grandmother fell and was confined to a hospital until she died a few months ago. when she fell, he didn't help her, said he could have but didn't. when they took her away to the hospital i was told that people had never seen him that happy, there alone, doing what he wanted, eating what he wanted, etc., etc. my god... i can't imagine spending my entire life living with someone waiting for them to die so i can start my own life. for him, it lasted 2 months before he passed away..... what an awful way to spend your life.

[LoneStar49]

Originally posted by VivianLee

....I can't be positive....

 

Well, for what it's worth, we can never be positive - with or without an affair in the picture. Maybe that's part of the answer right there - it is all risk-taking in one form or the other.

[Breathe]

Sorry if I'm intruding on this conversation here - but as I sit and read these posts, I'm shocked. I've never really posted about own love life on this forum - but reading this as really opened my own eyes. I want to Thank ALL of you for being honest here.

 

My SO cheated on me. I took him back - at first I think it was mainly because I felt it was a competition between the OW and myself and I wanted to win. I wanted her to know he CHOSE me. It was also the fact that WE wanted to prove everyone else wrong. They all said that it would never work out between us. We stayed together for the kids - but also to prove a point to people. I got want I wanted - but your right.... things have never been the same.

 

We hid behind religion. We tried counseling. Things were worse when we brought up the affair. So we just agreed to never talk about it again. We eventually lost the will to communicate with each other. We were afraid to say the wrong things or to talk about this and that - so we pretty much just stopped talking. We became strangers in the same house.

 

I never thought about how much work and sacrifice I give (or gave) to the relationship after the affair. You shined this light for me. The trust was gone, but I had to try to save the relationship for my own sanity. I couldn't walk away and look back and wonder what might have been. I tried. I loved him enough to want to try. Deep down I didn't really want him anymore because the trust was gone but I think I hung on because I didn't want anyone else to have him either.

 

Make any sense? Still - your posts make me see things I didn't really want to see before. I will definitely take this to heart.

[izzybelle]

breathe -

are you still with him? it's funny when i brought up to my MM that he chose his unhappy life with his wife over me.... he said i was wrong, that it wasn't that way.... not sure how else to view it. in some ways i've wondered if his wife felt the same way that you do that she wanted to show me that he chose her over me. i don't think her heart's into really trying, i really think she agreed to try more for the control over the issue (that the marriage is over when SHE says so) and to prove to me that he wanted "her" more.

 

i also find it interesting that you said you "hid behind religion." i'm not very religious and have always been puzzled by some of the postings here where people say they turn to god for help in saving their marriages. i know religion is one of those things that people view in their own special way. personally, i've always subscibed to the saying that "god helps those who help themselves." i had a student tell me once that they were going to let god chose their major. never got a good grip on how exactly they were going to do that...but it was their choice.

 

i do have a hard time with having any relationship where there are taboo subjects... that feels to me like an accident waiting to happen. it's the pink elephant in the room that no body wants to talk about. i know some things are better left in the past, perhaps dealt with and you move on. but.... if it's still enough of an issue that you have to watch what you say, i think most probably end up in situations like your's where they just stop talking. i wonder if that's what happened to my MM. with the "timeline" for his marriage failure that he gave me, it seems to have started on a downward spiral a few years after his first affair. she works nights, he works days and travels a lot, and they stopped communicating or doing anything together unless they had to for the sake of the kids. he took a 2nd job on the weekends for something to do socially since she, i guess, wasn't interested. the kids are gone now. their work schedules are stilll the same. and now there are more problems and pink elephants added to the picture.... so i'm confused how they'll make it through this. maybe they enjoy making each other miserable, maybe they're both too insecure or scared to make it on their own, or maybe i've just been lied to about the whole f'in mess!!!

[LoneStar49]

Breathe, you certainly are not intruding on this thread. I'm glad you posted and hope others will, too. Different views and points are always good.

 

Although I'm coming at this from the other side as the OW, reading all these different forums and seeing things from the perspective of both the betrayed and the betrayor has opened my eyes, too. I think maybe I, too, was seeing this as some sort of competition and feeling as though I had lost. In some respects, I did. I lost a great deal. But I can't help but wonder...what did she gain? As much as I miss him and as much as I care for him, I'd rather be where I am than where she is. If nothing else, I know where I stand, if not with him, at least with myself.

[Breathe]

he chose his unhappy life with his wife over me

 

For my situation, my H was unhappy at first after I found out, because he saw my pain and I reminded him of his faults constantly. I was very mean to him. When we went to counseling it was a battle of pointing fingers and blaming each other for this and that. We hid behind religion by telling ourselves that "divorce is wrong" - it's not what God wants, it's want the Devil wants. I didn't want to put my H through hell, nor did I want to put myself through anymore. So we stopped talking about it in every way. It's in the past, and we wanted to move forward.

 

Since that decision, my H has never been happier. He gets everything he wants. He got away with the affair(s) - but he still won. He's not alone, he still had a women to take care of him - he still had his kids with him... he had not lost a thing. Our sex life was better than ever, we spent all our time together doing fun things. We actually started doing things alone more often in addition to family things. He was never miserable at all..... but I was.

 

The thoughts of the affair(s) consumed me. The trust was gone. If he can do it once, he can do it again. I give and give and give and gave - but really, I wasn't winning anything. I grew resentful of him. I had lost respect for him. But I was losing respect for myself for allowing myself to have to go through life like this. I was angry at the OW at first, then realized that it wasn't her, it was him. He played the both of us. I didn't have any power, nor did she... HE DID.

[izzybelle]

breathe - it sounds like you've been through a lot. i'm not surprised that your h was happy. as you said, he got pretty much everything he wanted. interesting how you've described what you felt though because i've often wondered if my MMs wife won the battle but will ultimately lose the war. she may be choosing to stay with him at this point, but at what price...so he can do it again? after all, she's the one who told me that i wouldn't be the last. it may be another 5 or 10 years before it happens again, but if their marriage still lacks the communication and trust that it has since his first affair i don't see how it can work. and i won't be surprised if he finds someone else again. but i also have to wonder.... he was describing some of her behaviors to me one day, a long time ago, and many were those "symptoms" of someone who was having an affair. i asked him and he said she'd never do that. i think he thinks she too religious or moral or something, not sure i agree with him.

 

oh well, it doesn't matter, i'll never know. i'm not sure he has the power yet in this, although i see your point of how your h did. he's still walking on eggshells trying to please her but i'm sure in time, when she stops throwing me in his face all the time the balance of power will shift. don't know if i'll still be around if she really does decide she's had enough and honestly, lately, although i still love him more than i've ever loved anyone i don't know what i'd want. there's been a lot of trust broken for us too. not that i wouldn't trust him to have another affair, i may be stupid but i don't think he would, but i feel like he told me way too many lies about other things. ok, so that's somewhat contradictory, i know.... guess it's just a feeling i have about him. but the fact that he told me he would NEVER work things out with his wife and then went back on his word.... it will take some time to build that trust back up again.... hmmmmm i guess similar to what you've been through and perhaps not possible and perhaps not worth the effort!

[brandx]

I have been following this topic and find all of the posts quite interesting to follow. I wanted to put mu $.02 in because I thought maybe I could bring a different point of view to the table. A quick background for those who have not read my story before:

 

Married my STBX 8 years ago when found out she was pregnant. I was 22 and her second husband. ABout 8 weeks ago, I met someone that I clicked with extremely well. We had a signigicant emotional connection and kissed, but that was as far as it went. We talked all night and because I thought I would never see her again it allowed me to open up to her and to myself without fear of reprecussions. Anyways, it forced me to do some serious self evaluation and I realized something I had been ignoring in myself for many years: that I did not love my wife as anything more than the mother of my child and as a friend. I have since told my wife my feelings, done what I feel we could to work it out, but have moved forward with a divorce. We are luckily able to work thigns out between us and will be filing together shortly. I will be moving out in a week or two. All during this time, I have maintained contact with this OW and nurtured this relationship with her, although very slowly, and will continue to go slow even though my heart wants me to go as fast as is possible because she is so incredible.

 

All of that being said, my circumstances, I think, are very different than most MM and what you are experiencing or hoping for. I did not leave the marriage for OW; I would never have done that. It would be terrible to do so. I ended my marriage because when I looked down deep, I knew that I had emotionally checked out. Quite frankly, because I got married so young and didn't really know my wife, I realized that I never would have married her if she had not been pregnant and acknowledged that I was counting the years until my child graduated so I could leave then. When I saw all of these things and knew that she was not the person I would ever want to spend my life with as a life time partner and best friend, the only honest thing to do was end my marriage.

 

See, I think that many people go outside of their marriage to fulfill sexual needs. My situation had nothing to do with that. Others may be looking for an emotional connection. But most of them are just looking to supplement what is not right with their marriage by something outside of it. Once they look outside, I don't see them ever finding wholeness (if that is a word) within their marriage. If their first reaction is not to look within the marriage and work there, than it never will be I don't think. At least not in my case anyways. See, I was not looking, I just met my OW in a social setting. But I know now that I eventually would have looked outside the marriage because I had exhausted my resources within it. I was spent there. Once that happens, I can't see any benefit to staying. I think my wife and I would have been trapped in a loveless marriage where we had looked outside of it to try to round out our relationship for its entirity.

 

I think that if more people could really do the scary thing and go to the honest core of what they feel, they would make very different choices in life. I know I did when I got there. But I would rather do the hard thing than live in fear and misery for the rest of my life. Don't get me wrong, I regret hurting my wife since she wanted to stay together no matter what, and my daughter, although she has adjusted perfectly so far (and I can be a better father and example by doing the honest thing versus pretending). But the fact of the matter is, why live a lie? Who gains in that? Life is often hard, but marriage is not a prison sentence. There is no reason to just stay in it forever just because one is afraid of the unknown.

 

I hope this is helpful; not sure if I made a ton of sense here or not.

 

Brand X

[DazednConfused]

What a great thread.

 

From a betrayed man's perspective;

 

I have loved my wife since the moment we met. Still do. (damn me and my heart) And although it has changed in the last months, it is still there. I have to give her a chance to regain my love and trust.

 

I can honestly see myself divorcing her and trying to go on w/o her; but in my heart, and as well as I know the two of us, we could not stay away from each other. We would probably be one of those divorced couples who get together regularly for recreational sex, then remarry a few years down the road.

 

Yes, the trust is gone. Never will be the same. So I throw her out and eventually date again; do you really think I will ever fully trust anyone as I did her? Doubt it. So, if this is true, and I know I am damaged goods for life.... is it fair to inflict my baggage onto a new woman? I just don't think it would be right or fair to an unsuspecting woman out there, because I would never be able to truly give her all of myself.

 

I will not have my daughter raised in a broken home. Also, we can give her a better start if we are financially together.

 

As the man in a marriage in a no-fault divorce state (I.E. blame and circumstances are not considered), I stand to lose an awful lot. Please, before I get flamed, let's be honest; I like the life I have built, and have no desire to drastically alter my standard of living. I think divorce is easier to contemplate for women because the laws are so heavily slanted to be sure that they are taken care of... not to mention custody, it would kill me to not share in every aspect of my daughter's life.

 

These are just a few things that come to mind as reasons for trying to work things out. As of today, I am a miserable lump of a human being. But each and every scenario above will only add to that misery and will not help my current situation even a little.

 

Can I do any or all of those things? Sure. But not without giving it a good try first. I do still have some of my self-respect.

 

-Dazed