Near the end of my rope--emotional abuse or just immaturity?

[elle77]

Hi everyone,

 

I've had ongoing problems in my seven-year marriage that I've had a difficult time describing. I'm going to attempt to do that here, because I wonder if anyone else has experienced something like this, and I'm not sure whether to call my husband's behavior emotional abuse or just a matter of emotional immaturity with no malice intended.

 

He is 41 and I'm 35. We have no children, and frankly, I'm getting so tired of his behavior (no matter how infrequent--I think he's attempting to improve) --so I worry about bringing kids into this marriage at this point in time. Also, I honestly don't know if I'm going to have the mental strength to stay in the marriage, unless things improve drastically. We've been in marriage counseling for over a year, as well.

 

So, here is what happened to me last night (I should add, a scenario like this has happened to me once before):

 

My husband presents himself as a typical "nice guy": Quiet, courteous, passive. He opens doors for little old ladies (and even opens the car door on my side whenever I get into his car). In public, he's agreeable and friendly. With his large family of origin, he's the goofball. With my smaller, quieter family of origin, he often doesn't talk at all, or act that interested in what is going on, on or when he does, you can tell he has to work at it. It's like a night-and-day difference in personality.

 

He also has a temper. He tries to hide it in public (at work it's never been an issue, for example). In life, overall, I've noticed he takes a victim mentality about things: He can never get ahead, his boss treats him poorly and what can he do but just take it? etc. etc. Money is a major concern (I work part-time and make very little money; he works full-time but makes very little money) --but we have a home we can afford and he is very careful to not spend unecessarily. Even so, everyone is out to get him, so he can never get ahead. The things he loses his temper over the most are bills and when things stop working around the house.

 

So, yesterday, he found a medical bill for a recent ER visit (it had arrived a few days prior, but had gotten put under some other mail). After accusing me of hiding it from him (not true; I had thought he had already opened it, but it had gotten mixed up with some other mail) he opened it up and all hell broke loose: The bill was for $300, or nearly the entirety of one of my husband's twice-a-month paychecks.

 

I stood in the hallway and watched as my husband began yelling, swearing, and slamming both of his fists on the dining room table repeatedly. Then he stood up, continued to yell, stomped into the kitchen, slammed some cupboard doors, and banged his fists hard on the counter, before heading out to the garage, continuing to yell and kick stuff around.

 

Afterwards, he apologized for getting mad (we've discussed how it upsets me in marriage counseling) and he said, "You know it wasn't directed at you, right? It was at that medical bill; stupid doctors don't care about us! If I get sick again don't take me to the hospital; I don't want to give them the satisfaction. Just let me die here!"

 

Later that night, in bed, I told him the extreme quality of his anger really bothered me. I said, 'You know how to keep it more calm in public, but I'm the one who sees the worst of it.' My husband suddenly got up and walked to the back door, and stood there. I followed him out to the kitchen and asked where he was going. He said, "I'm going to go sleep in the garage." I asked him why. He said, "I just am, you don't want me here." Then he went and got his work camera (he's a sports journalist) and put on his tennis shoes, so that he was standing there in his boxers, no shirt, and tennis shoes, holding his camera. He said, "I'm going to the office." I asked him what he was planning to do there. He just said, "You want me gone, so I'm leaving." I told him I had said no such thing, and that I was going to go in the living room and read for awhile, and that when I went to bed later I had hoped he'd be there. With that, I left the room, and saw out of the corner of my eye that he had slowly sunk down to sit on the back step, his head in his hands. He may have cried, but I'm not sure.

 

After about 10 minutes of this, I heard him walk back into the bedroom again. I joined him about an hour later, and he was asleep. The next morning, everything was fine again and he sent me some witty e-mails form his work and seemed to be in a better mood.

 

When I think on things like this, I realize it has become 'normal' for me, though it was not how I grew up (I grew up in a very quiet, close-knit family). I find myself trying not to anger him, or if does get angry, I try to distance myself from him, even though every time it happens, he says it's not directed at me. One time, he got mad because he accidently broke a hand saw when we were outside working on shrubbery. He began yelling and swearing, and the two little neighbor girls in the next yard, who had been playing, had proceeded to run to the alley and just stand there silently, watching us. (Later, my husband said that he hadn't known they were there).

 

The thing that bothers me is that I wonder at his intent: If it's not directed at me, then why am I (usually) the only one who sees it? Why does he think it's ok for me to witness it? He doesn't even act that way around his parents, siblings, or nieces and nephews. He doesn't act that way at work. He only acts that way when I'm around, whether we're at home or in the car. Even our marraige counselor doesn't see him behave in this unhinged way (though I've told her about it. She thinks he and I just have different ways of processing emotions).

 

Sometimes, I'd love to be able to record one of his outbursts just because no one that I know who thinks they know him would believe it, but it's so unpredictable as to when they might happen. He knows he intimdates me with his angry outbursts, but doesn't seem to be able to stop them from happening, and after they do happen, if I bring it up later, he acts like he did from the incident above, where he claims he's going to go away because I don't want him here. One time, he even said he was going to kill himself (the next day, when I asked him about it, he said, "I don't know why I said that; I didn't mean it.").

 

It's odd, because this isn't an everyday occurance, but when it happens, it happens in the extreme, to the point I find it scary. I wonder sometimes what would happen if his anger turned on me or if I was in the way. He claims he would never hit me, but how can I know for sure when he can't even handle dealing with a medical bill without going into full-on rage-at-the-world mode?

 

Has anyone else been through something like this? Can they ever change, or is it a lost cause?

[tojaz]

Elle, I'm going to say right off that this is not emotional abuse. It sounds like you feel singled out because your the only one that sees it. The other side of the coin is that he is venting in his own home and by your own description, it sounds that even during an uncontrolled outburst he tries very hard to be clear about what has caused it and to not but that weight on you.

 

That being said, repeated outbursts like that are not healthy and your right to be concerned, but I think your concern would be better placed in trying to help him with some of the causes of the outbursts rather then adding the stress of a strained marriage.

 

Show him a wife that isn't looking for the chink in the armor but is looking for ways to strengthen it all around instead. Give him a little support for his hardships and most importantly let him know it is safe and even encourage him to vent those frustrations to you a little at a time and he will be less likely to hold it all in until he goes Krakatoa.

 

I would start by asking him if that's what he does.... hold it in and that it concerns you, not because you want to change him, or because you don't like it, but because it is healthier for him and because he should feel free to be able to vent these things to you.. all be it in a MUCH healthier manner.

 

TOJAZ

[brightlitbluesky]

It sounds to me like he might need some sort of mental health counseling? He may be going through some depression that even he is not entirely aware of. Is there any way you could mention to him in as gentle a way as possible that you think talking to someone might help with his anger and highs and lows?

[CC12]

Even our marraige counselor doesn't see him behave in this unhinged way (though I've told her about it. She thinks he and I just have different ways of processing emotions).

 

Do you think she doesn't understand/believe the severity of his anger? The way you phrased that makes me think you feel she's kind of blowing it off. If that's the case, something needs to change. Have you told her exactly what he does when he gets mad at home? With him sitting next to you, it can't be easy describing in detail the embarrassing **** he does. I wonder if you're holding back a little or sugar-coating it?

 

And I would say that it is both immaturity and emotional abuse, or at least emotional manipulation and blackmail. That pitiful little display he pulled - standing there in boxers, tennis shoes, and work equipment while wailing that he's just going to go away because you're such a meanie and you don't want him there - I mean, jesus. This was his reaction to your attempts to calmly speak to him about something important to you. He didn't want to deal with it, so he went nuclear so you'd stop talking about it. And it worked. How could it not? But that's not fair, and that's not the way a rational adult deals with issues.

 

If it's not directed at me, then why am I (usually) the only one who sees it?

 

It's because he gets something out of it. There's some sort of pay off. I don't know what it is, but think of it this way. When he's alone and something gets him upset/angry, what does he do? How does he handle it? Surely, he doesn't scream at an inanimate object the way he screams at you or around you. And if he does, he surely doesn't threaten the object that he's going to leave or kill himself. Because that wouldn't benefit him at all. But there is something that benefits him when he has a witness to his anger. Your remorse? Your pity? Your commiseration? Again, I don't know what that is, but I want to be very clear that you're not to blame for this, and it's not your fault that he acts out the way he does. He sounds exhausting and impossible to deal with.

 

You asked whether it's emotional abuse with no malice intended, or just plain immaturity. My answer? It doesn't matter. The results are the same. It also doesn't matter whether his anger is directed at you or not. You're still the one it gets dumped on, and you're still scared of him and his temper. If it were malicious abuse and his anger was directed at you, the outcome would still be pretty much where you are now.

[Meatballsmom]

Been there and done that

 

Run!

 

My Ex did as you described, then one day he totally lost it and pulled a butcher knife and went after our kids and me

[Gunny376]

Dump this clown already and go and find yourself a real ~ I wouldn't even say a "real man" (because of all the BS connotaitions that implies ~ the definition of such is relative to and subjective to any given individual)

 

But at least someone that's a self validating, self secure, self assured, confident, in control of their emotions, themselves, their lives type individual.

 

I can get crazy and stuppoid, but on and with the right individual ~ that would not be the person I sleep in the same bed with everynight, live with, and married to.

 

Even a dog has the God given common sense not to crap where it eats and sleeps! Even a dog knows not to bite the hands that feeds it? (In your case "feed" means mental, emotional, pyschological, etc support, caring, validating, supporting, affirming, etc)

 

I have a freaking really bad day at work, come home to a mountain of bills etc? I'm not going to take it out on Mrs. Gunny! WTF! She's part of my SOLUTION to my problems, not part of the problem? She's part of the ANSWERS to the questions, not part of the question?

 

Mrs Gunny is my 'sounding borad" ~ my outlet ~ my vent ~ my Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders when its the Fourth Quater, First and Goal, and seconds left on the clock! MY star running back is out of the game! My star offensive tackle and gurad are out of the game, I'm down to my fourth string center, a walk on punter, I'm seriously looking at the water boy, Hell! I'm eyeballing the little old lady in the wheelchair up in the stands!

 

Its the Superbowl and its a tied game? Mrs Gunny is on the sideline giving her and ME her all and I call a time out to go over to the sideline to slap the Hell out of her and tell her to STFU?

 

Really?

 

Seriously?

[GuyInLimbo]

Since your counselor doesn't see this, do you have an iPhone or something that you can record one of his "episodes" on?

[elle77]

Thanks for your replies so far; they've given me a lot to consider.

I don't have an iphone to record a tantrum, but my small digital camera has a recording feature. Problem is, when these episodes happen, I don't usually think to go looking for my camera (though maybe I should just always have it with me). I wouldn't need to necessarily get any images; just sound would be enough.

 

I do definitely agree that he must be getting something out of only showing me this side of him. But whatever it is, I can't imagine it's something coming from a loving place. For example, last night, when we were already in bed, I brought up again how his anger displays scare me. He acted as though it was unreasonable of me to be intimidated. He said, "So you're telling me I can't even get angry in my own home?" I said no, I wasn't saying that, I was saying it was the extreme of his reactions (and what I also felt was emotional manipulation) that bothered me.

 

I told him that since he can shut it off at work or in public, why do I get to see the worst of it? And especially since it unnerves me so much? He said, "I can't be a saint like your dad and never get angry." and "I guess that means you're perfect." This whole time, he was speaking in a very tense voice, like he was barely able to control his own anger at that point. Whenever he looked at me, he appeared to be glaring (he denied it when I asked him if he was angry at me again). He said, "I'm....not...angry' and then told me that if it would make me feel better, he'd go for a drive in his car and yell and carry on there. I said that would help. He said, "I'll drive 10, 20 miles out of town." I said I'd be happy with him driving down to the end of our alley and carrying on there; no need to drive so far out of his way. He said, "I'll go far away so I won't bother you" (again, to me, this came across as though /I/ was the 'bad guy' for having a concern).

 

Even though he agreed to this driving thing, I have a feeling it won't make much difference when the next attack happens. He seems to become unhinged in a matter of seconds, and he's already railing at whatever it is for awhile before having the presence of mind to leave the room and fume elsewhere. Then, when he does that, he gets mad at me later on for still hearing him and still being bothered by it: ("The counselor said I should go somewhere else and vent, right? Well, that's what I did").

 

I get that people get angry about things. I get that sometimes you can lose your cool. But this, frankly, this is something that I am scared a child would see (like those two neighbor girls did, and look how they reacted). He insists that he would never behave that way in front of a child. I ask, "So why is it ok that you behave that way in front of your wife?" And further, with his track record, how can he say he wouldn't flip out if a child spilled something, or lost something of his, or whatever it might be? Even if he never got angry at a child like that, the child could still see him behaving like he did to me the other day, and be scared to cross him in any way. He brushes his behavior of as "just venting". He says he "needs to let it out or I will explode."

[noble]

I wouldnt say it is emotional abuse, he just seems sort of immature in dealing with his feelings.

I would say from your post a few things

1. I think your husband feels inadequate as a man - you mentioned both of you don't make that much money combined - maybe he's feeling stressed because he's not a good provider

2. Also, I think your husband gets angry around you because you're who he's comfortable with -- he's comfortable letting out his anger in front of you because he probably assumes you're not going to judge him for it

3. When you say you don't like when he does this I think he interprets it as a sort of rejection. I think that's why he does the whole wallowing and pity-me act with you.

I think ultimately he wants your attention.

Let me ask you..

when your husband has an angry outburst, do you stay out of his way or try to comfort him? Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Maybe if you went over and rubbed his neck or shoulders, and talked soothingly to him and calmed him down then the anger would subside quickly.

How often are these things happening?

I don't think it's crazy. For example, sometimes when my BF is working on a physical project and he gets frustrated because things are going as planned he can get mad and sort of seem like a bit pissy. But I've learned that its not about me, he's just frustrated and letting it out. He wouldn't let it out as much in front of co-workers and family because honestly he doesn't really feel he can show all his sides to them..

[Gunny376]

I wouldnt say it is emotional abuse, he just seems sort of immature in dealing with his feelings.

I would say from your post a few things

1. I think your husband feels inadequate as a man - you mentioned both of you don't make that much money combined - maybe he's feeling stressed because he's not a good provider

2. Also, I think your husband gets angry around you because you're who he's comfortable with -- he's comfortable letting out his anger in front of you because he probably assumes you're not going to judge him for it

3. When you say you don't like when he does this I think he interprets it as a sort of rejection. I think that's why he does the whole wallowing and pity-me act with you.

I think ultimately he wants your attention.

Let me ask you..

when your husband has an angry outburst, do you stay out of his way or try to comfort him? Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Maybe if you went over and rubbed his neck or shoulders, and talked soothingly to him and calmed him down then the anger would subside quickly.

How often are these things happening?

I don't think it's crazy. For example, sometimes when my BF is working on a physical project and he gets frustrated because things are going as planned he can get mad and sort of seem like a bit pissy. But I've learned that its not about me, he's just frustrated and letting it out. He wouldn't let it out as much in front of co-workers and family because honestly he doesn't really feel he can show all his sides to them..

 

I agree with any and all your points ~ all valid. ♫ ♪

 

But sometimes?

 

We all need to be slammed up aginist tha' Wall like a Redneck Mother and have the Hell Bitch Slapped out us back into reality!

[trippi1432]

I do like Noble's points as well, and something I noticed in Elle's posts is that she has the capacity to both support her husband but also knows when not to cave to the behavior. Depending on your depth of commitment at this point Elle, I would suggest he look at some therapy around anger management. Noble hit on he may be feeling inadequate/stressed as the provider, I wouldn't overlook that point, something he does need to work on as well because if that is present....whether poor or rich, that aspect about himself won't change unless he addresses and deals with his feelings about himself.

 

Our spouse is the one person that we should be able to vent our frustrations and fears to without the fear of being judged, but it doesn't excuse poor behavior. Especially poor behavior that instills fear in the other partner. It's obvious he needs to find a better way to process his emotions where you both feel safe.

 

Another thing that Noble hit on, the power of touch. Recently, I ran into a couple and the husband is very close to my son. We were talking about my son's accident last year and not wearing a helmet while skateboarding. I could tell the husband was very frustrated about my son's refusal to wear a helmet in the future...it was very visible. It wasn't aimed at me, so I didn't take it personally. As he was talking and venting about my son not listening, his wife reached over and stroked his arm, his demeanor changed and he calmed down. There is a lot to be said about the healing power of touch between two people who have a good bond and trust between them.

Edited May 3, 2013 by trippi1432

[elle77]

I wouldnt say it is emotional abuse, he just seems sort of immature in dealing with his feelings.

I would say from your post a few things

1. I think your husband feels inadequate as a man - you mentioned both of you don't make that much money combined - maybe he's feeling stressed because he's not a good provider

2. Also, I think your husband gets angry around you because you're who he's comfortable with -- he's comfortable letting out his anger in front of you because he probably assumes you're not going to judge him for it

3. When you say you don't like when he does this I think he interprets it as a sort of rejection. I think that's why he does the whole wallowing and pity-me act with you.

I think ultimately he wants your attention.

Let me ask you..

when your husband has an angry outburst, do you stay out of his way or try to comfort him? Sometimes people just want someone to listen. Maybe if you went over and rubbed his neck or shoulders, and talked soothingly to him and calmed him down then the anger would subside quickly.

How often are these things happening?

I don't think it's crazy. For example, sometimes when my BF is working on a physical project and he gets frustrated because things are going as planned he can get mad and sort of seem like a bit pissy. But I've learned that its not about me, he's just frustrated and letting it out. He wouldn't let it out as much in front of co-workers and family because honestly he doesn't really feel he can show all his sides to them..

 

This is an interesting way of looking at things, so I thought I'd take it point-by-point:

 

1. Stressed by not being a good provider: Yes, I can say that he has mentioned that before; he'll say, "A man should be able to provide for his family." I try to reassure him that I can help out, too (though admittedly not a lot) financially. He constantly berates himself for having gotten a degree in journalism, because the pay is so bad. Yet, he enjoys the work. He sometimes talks about quitting his job and re-applying to a factory job he had a few years ago when he was in between newspaper jobs. He hated the factory job but liked the pay and benefits. Yet, this particular newspaper job, which he had had some years prior to the factory job and always regretted leaving the first time around --is his true interest. He's disillusioned with his current boss, who doesn't treat any of his employees well -- and the lack of money.

 

2. Comfortable around me to express anger. Yes, he appears to be, but he's also been ashamed of it and asks me not to tell anyone that he spirals out of control, or thinks I'm being somehow 'against' him when I admit it bothers me: One time, he did get angry at a former newspaper office where we both worked. It was a small office and the other people around me were aware of his swearing to himself, tearing at his hair, etc. The boss' wife went upstairs to inform the boss, who called my husband up to ask him to be "less demonstrative because it's making people uncomfortable." When I told him later it had made me uncomfortable as well, he said, 'Oh, so you're taking /their/ side now?' in a sarcastic tone of voice.

 

3. Takes it as a rejection: Yes, I think this is the case, as well. If he wants my attention by manipulating my emotions, he's got it, but for the wrong reasons imo; it makes me lose respect for him to see him so obviously toying with me by threatening to kill himself or, to a lesser extent, to threaten to sleep in the garage or go away from me. I mean, we're talking about a grow man here! I think my 10-and-8-year-old nephews are more mature.

 

Interesting that the power of touch was brought up. I used to go over and put my arms around his shoulders, rub his back, etc., but when his tantrums have happened the last couple of times, I've stayed away, because, quite frankly, I find him too scary at that point to interact with him. If he slams his fists on the table so much that the picture frames nearby shake, who is to say he wouldn't at some point use that force on me? Clearly he has the strength to do so, even if he insists I'm not what is making him mad. Even to be 'in the way' by accident could cause problems, potentially.

 

There was also a time recently when he used the power of touch in a negative way: We were in bed and relaxing and I had asked for an upper back rub, since I'm always tense in that region. Well, he kept on deviating and trying to get some sexual touches in there, too, even though I wasn't in the mood. After awhile, it seemed he was rubbing me everywhere except where I had requested. I asked him, "Why can't you just give me a back rub; that's what I asked for! Why is always about what you want?"

 

He instantly recoiled and said, quietly and in an angry tone of voice: "Bull...Crap." He then told me he paid most of the bills and that couldn't I give him something he wanted (license for him to give me whatever kind of touch he wanted, apparently)--in return? Apparently he found it selfish of me to request a back rub only.

 

As for feeling like he can show me the true extent of his emotions, I can understand, up to a point. But the problem for me comes when he knows how it scares me but he doesn't seem to care that it does. He insists he must "get it out" and that I'm somehow being unreasonable to expect him to ratchet it down if he feels things start to boil over. I said, 'Anyone can learn to control their emotions" and he comes back with, "Well, aren't you just Miss Perfect?" The thing that bothers me is that seems to have little regard for how the strength of his anger, and his aggressive way of expressing it -- unsettles me. Also, whenever I raise my voice to him (which isn't often--I'm a quiet person --but it's nowhere near the yelling and ranting he does)...he whines, "Please, please don't yell at me!" like a child would. As much as I am scared of what seems like his borderline-violent temper, he seems scared if my voice raises a couple of tones.

Edited May 3, 2013 by elle77