BlockHead Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 moimeme If the terrorists originated in Iraq, that might be true. However, they did not and do not. They are from around the world and were being trained in AFGHANISTAN, not Iraq.More fuzzy logic. If terrorists are from around the world, then they originated from around the world. Afghanistan was one of their headquarters. moimeme Iraq is much, much worse off than it was under Saddam..Have you seen the satellite photo of Baghdad? You need to look closely to find some of the damage and destruction. moimeme And Osama, the guy who admitted to organizing a large number of successful terrorist attacks against the US and other nations, is NOT in Iraq.al-Qaeda is more like a confederation, not an absolute monarchy. BTW, al Zarqawi is an al-Qaeda bigwig. moimeme He's still alive and well and plotting attacks while Bush spends money and lives in Iraq.He is alive and hiding. They spend years planning the terrorist attacks, and they probably have something in the pipeline. dyermaker Terrorism has increased, Al Quaeda has more influence in Iraq than they did before, people are still being killed, people are still being tortured, and gas prices haven't even decreased.Maybe it has something to do with the insurgents. HokeyReligions Yes, war changes people. That is part of war.I agree. So does terrorism. moimeme The same reason it increases in any invaded country. People angered by the invasion retaliate.Given the opportunity, some people will try acquire power at any price. Who wants to be the next Saddam? moimeme He was one of dozens of bad leaders. But he, like Osama, had been trained and funded by your own country.Saddam is a 100% born and bred Iraqi. He did what he wanted when he wanted. moimeme There have been MANY 'evil' dictators who have tortured and killed people. One was Pinochet in Chile who got into power and stayed there with US help. While he tortured and killed people. The point is that this war is all about hypocrisy. You do not kill terrorists by blowing up a whole country. It didn't work in Afghanistan, now did it? Did it?When both sides are cruel, who do you choose? Hitler or Stalin Saddam or Ayallah moimeme So everything AJ has posted is 'crap and lies' even though you can find it in your own history books?More like skewed. He throws in a few facts to support his conspiracy theories. I don’t have time to refute all of their claims, and I don’t have the energy to endless do that.
HokeyReligions Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Breathe So what can the military do to help those returning from the war? My H had to go through a "defrag" class... it was only a few hours and it was mainly to let them know how things have changed at home and what to except when they get there... They didn't offer any real help to the emotional problems they would endure from the war. Counseling is offered for free, but there again, if it's sought out for the reason of PTS, then this is put on their profiles and can effect their careers in a negative way. Because counseling is not confidential, a lot of the personnel don't access it. Thus, they have failed marriages, DUIs, drinking, anger - related problems. It's a mess.... I know that once our loved ones are done fighting in the war we want them home as quickly as possible. However, I also see now that if the military would offer "defrag" courses for an extended amount of time before the military person returns home, how this could help tremendously. You may be on to something here. I know some counselors here and I am going to call them and the VFW and see if perhaps a non-official support group can be formed to help returning soldiers who do not want to go through official channels because of confidentiality. There are counselors who do volunteer work and I will volunteer also (not to counsel - I'm not qualified for that, but to help with the administrative aspects) There may already be something like that in existence, or in the works. I can supply coffee and soft drinks at support-group meetings, and help clean up afterward. I would offer my home, except I have too many dogs who would all think everyone came to see them! Although, the affection of dogs has been known to help healing.... Hmm.... now you've got me thinking about what *I* can do..... I remember how it was for the returning vietnam vets. I hope we have learned our lesson as a nation and don't let that happen again. New motto: ***hug a soldier today*** Breathe, would you mind if I hugged your husband? Not in a romantic or sensual way, just as a grateful American?
faux Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 If my country forced me to travel to a foreign land, and slay its innocent civilians, I probably would not come back to home soil feeling all too great about myself. I do not think I would ever be the same. I do not understand so much talk of terrorism still. The only acts of terror that occurred were on September 11th, 2001. Since then, no one has come to attack us with terror. I think that what things the Iraqis have been doing are fully justifiable acts of retribution.
Fayebelle Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 You have a sick, sick, twisted little mindframe.
YellowLioness Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 I think that what things the Iraqis have been doing are fully justifiable acts of retribution. I don't. I don't think slaughter of any kind is right. Iraqis tend to target innocents to torture. I'm not sure how you can condone this. As for terrorist acts...no, there haven't been any here. However, I do believe that kidnapping an American citizen and lopping off his head does constitute terrorism. This bothers me, considering that our premise for being in Iraq is to stabelize the country to make life better for it's people.
loveregardless Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 I am hoping that what faux meant and said in all the wrong ways was that he can understand why there are so many millitant groups in Iraq right now as a result of our unwelcome presence there, not that it is by any means and in any way shape or form acceptable for any human to decapitate another human being. War is not supposed to be personal, and prisoners of war are supposed to be treated with a certain level of dignity, certainly not abused, molested and killed. It was equally as disgusting when our American soldiers mistreated the captured Iraqui soldiers as they did earlier this year. It is never ok to be perverse and heartless. I personally believe that it is never ok to kill someone else but that defeats the whole concept of "war" in general then doesn't it. I would like to think that we sould settle our problems as a human race without resorting to violence, but unfortunately none of the worlds governments' seem to think that would work.
YellowLioness Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 We may have molested and demoralized them, but at least we didn't decapitate them on camera. Big difference in my opinion. LR, I do see what you're saying, and I do totally agree. War does nothing but prove who is the strongest. The real problems are settled in the conference room amongst leaders.
Moose Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 I do not understand so much talk of terrorism still. The only acts of terror that occurred were on September 11th, 2001. Since then, no one has come to attack us with terror. I think that what things the Iraqis have been doing are fully justifiable acts of retribution. The only act of terror? You mean on us right? WRONG!! How about the beheadings? What about the attacks on our allies? You seem to only be concerned with our homeland. That's not what I consider keeping the whole picture in mind. By the way, terrorism has been around since the beginning of time. Just to throw caution to the wind faux, it's not what the Iraqis are doing, it's what the terrorists are doing. Not all Iraqis are against the US, and not all Iraqis are members of the terrorist groups attacking us or any other country for that matter. So we didn't find the illusive WMD's.....but we did find a few graves where thousands were buried alive. That to me confirms that the real weapon of mass destruction was the regime we, the US, over threw so the Iraqi people could live without fear of being genicide. There are a lot of reasons to be for and to be against this war. Please take the time to read this link: Arab Columnist's take on Iraqi war The heartache and the suffering of the innocent is a terrible tragedy and I wish it didn't have to take place. But unfortunatley, with an untaking such as this, collatoral damage is necessary. God didn't promise sunshine without rain.
BlockHead Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 faux If my country forced me to travel to a foreign land, and slay its innocent civilians, I probably would not come back to home soil feeling all too great about myself. I do not think I would ever be the same.We have a volunteer army. Our troops don’t actively try to “slay” “innocent civilians.” The same can’t be said for the terrorists. In fact, they prefer civilian targets. faux I do not understand so much talk of terrorism still. The only acts of terror that occurred were on September 11th, 2001. Since then, no one has come to attack us with terror. I think that what things the Iraqis have been doing are fully justifiable acts of retribution.There was the first WTC bombing in 1993 which happened to be the same spot as the 2001 attack. faux I think you’ve become complacent, and the terrorists thank you for making their crusade a little easier. loveregardless I personally believe that it is never ok to kill someone else but that defeats the whole concept of "war" in general then doesn't it.The terrorists think their duty is to kill as many infidels as possible. Bin Laden and his organization declared war on the US sometime around 1996. loveregardless I would like to think that we sould settle our problems as a human race without resorting to violence, but unfortunately none of the worlds governments' seem to think that would work.These terrorists think the violence and killing will bring them closer to God, and to heavenly paradise. YellowLioness We may have molested and demoralized them, but at least we didn't decapitate them on camera.Who is “them”? The extremists? The troublemakers? The criminally insane (Saddam released them)? YellowLioness LR, I do see what you're saying, and I do totally agree. War does nothing but prove who is the strongest. The real problems are settled in the conference room amongst leaders.Is this an epidemic of forgetfulness? Months and years were spent negotiating. When all else fails, warfare should be an option. Apparently, some people are unchanged by the “War on Terror.”
moimeme Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 Most of the stuff that AJ/Moimeme/Dyer/etc. have posted is chronically biased and based on lies. Yep, because it's based on documents that come from - yep - the US Government. The sad thing is, they believe it so totally and buy into the lies. The sad thing is, Bush lovers believe the BS so totally and buy into the lies cooked up by PR firms. Citing sources to back themselves up does not mean anything. We all can do that. I don't buy into their sources either. I am, thankfully, able to sift through the trash and find the facts within the rhetoric. Did you ever read the government reports and documents cited? If not your own government, who do you believe? I would love to see these people actually have to live under the rule of dictators like Saddam. They couldn't unless they supported the terroristic acts. That isn't the point. It was never the point. The terrorists are not going to take over the world. The anti-terrorists of the world would, and have, died in prisons and from torture because they expressed a contractdictory opinion to the terrorists. And perfectly ordinary citizens who expressed contradictory opinions to the US-sponsored government of Pinochet died in prisons and from torture and 'disappeared'. Those who are fighting against terrorism suffer for it. But its still worth the fight-- So why aren't you fighting in Spain? In Indonesia? In Japan? In the rest of the world where there are terrorists, and where they have been operating undisturbed by the US for years and years? Why didn't you invade Ireland?
dyermaker Posted September 24, 2004 Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by YellowLioness I don't. I don't think slaughter of any kind is right. Iraqis tend to target innocents to torture. I'm not sure how you can condone this. Most of the people in Abu Ghuraib were innocents. Originally posted by BlockHead Maybe it has something to do with the insurgents. Why are there insurgents, Blockhead? You've still never given me a straight answer to this question. How do you win the war on terror? If these radical muslims aren't afraid of death, what good would killing them all do, since more will simply take their place? Originally posted by Sundaymorning Are you aware of why terrorism has increased? And could you site your source? You don't believe me? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435/ Numbers don't lie. There are terrorists because we interfere in other countries. Bursting into anothe, for the most part nonterrorist, country with limited intelligence, torturing their innocents, and mandating our form of government is not the way to stop terrorism. Because I know that in Iraq, it seems to have increased because some terrorists are not scared of dying from Saddam and his army, so they are coming out from behind the bushes from hiding and secretly doing their thing,. Uh... what? Terrorists have targets, they're not just people who run around and cause mayhem--"doing their thing". Their target is America, not Sadaam. Admit defeat? Ok, so the terrorists can grow more and more and then take the whole world? It's precisely what will happen if we continue on this path of medieval war in the 21st century. Good old Bush and his drones are convinced that the enemy is lining up and cleaning their muskets, and it's just not happening. You have to fight this war with a degree of intelligence and cooperation, and I'm afraid of how many more American soliders, American civilians, and innocents worldwide will have to perish before the electorate realizes.
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