How to avoid taking a woman for granted

[BluEyeL]

I think the problem, on both sides, are sweeping generalizations. "Women are like this". "Men are like that". There is an incredible amount of diversity, we are each unique people. Yes, there is some inborn gender characteristics, but I don't think it is OK to keep throwing blame at each other. What's the point, anyway? Some of us, men or women, take our personal frustrations and project them on an entire category. Nobody is perfect, men are not perfect, tend to be less caring on average due to testosterone levels, but there are very good, caring men, as well as a lot of selfish, self-absorbed women. My solution to this is to try to look at each situation/person and try to understand them. I don't have to like everyone, regardless of their gender.

 

These being said, misogyny is an undeniable problem in the society though, it really is, not related to relationships in particular, but there are double standards and unconscious biases against women. It's been proved by research, the biases are, again, unconscious. In other words, you don't have to be a "woman hater" to have these biases. I also have them.

 

There are more to be said, but the whole issue of gender and relationships is so incredibly complex that it is hard to even start addressing a small part of it.

[pbjbear]

Didnt read all the replies, but pretty sure this is gonna turn into a male vs. female debate.

 

I think most of the time women just NEED more emotional support from theirpartner. They need to be in contact, etc. Whereas men are more carefree by nature.

 

I always tell my girl, if you need to contact me my phone is always on and I'd love to talk to you, but I simply don't have this need to call you up twice a day every day.

 

Obviously relationships are made of compromises and the man should be willing to do things just for his woman's pleasure. But the woman should be the one expressing her needs first. If the man still doesnt respond and/or he doesnt care about her needs, THEN AND ONLY THEN he's taking her for granted and the relationship won't last.

 

Ehhh most of the guys I dated needed emotional support. The problem is they didnt want to give it back to me over time the longer we dated. Did you know emotional neglect is the number 1 reason stated on divorce papers? Did you know, that most married men do not feel emotional neglect for years on end is even worth divorcing over? Men are not as giving with their emotions but some of them certainly expect emotional support.

 

 

 

Ninjapajamas post doesnt apply to me. Im not a traditional woman and Im not like anything he described.

[Treasa]

I have nothing but awesome guys in my life. That's because I pushed the other ones out of my life without a parachute.

 

I agree with not making it a gender attack. I know men AND women who are either bullies, selfish, screeching bitches and douchebags, or just freaking delusional. I don't see the productivity in blaming an entire gender. Wouldn't you rather spend your time being happy? I know, I'm getting really wacko ideas in my old age...

[GorillaTheater]

Me using critical thinking skills and noticing trends around me does not equal me being unhappy.

 

I laugh at the female posters here calling me "so unhappy" and "oh I must be so angry in person because Ive been SO SO HURT" *cough* THERESA *cough*

 

If thats true, why in real life do women tell me they wish they could be like me and not depend on men, give a **** what they think about me, have a good career/lots of friends/hobbies?

 

People just cannot handle my blunt personality here. I cut toxic men out of my life all the time and I am well known in my circle for not tolerating people's bull****. Ive dumped/stopped talking to countless men that dont treat me right. I dont get stuck in bad relationships and come here and bitch about it. Doesnt mean Im not happy. Sheesh

 

You've always struck me as a veritable ray of sunshine, that's for sure.

[soccerrprp]

I have nothing but awesome guys in my life. That's because I pushed the other ones out of my life without a parachute.

 

I agree with not making it a gender attack. I know men AND women who are either bullies, selfish, screeching bitches and douchebags, or just freaking delusional. I don't see the productivity in blaming an entire gender. Wouldn't you rather spend your time being happy? I know, I'm getting really wacko ideas in my old age...

 

Yikes!

 

1. You are not old and 2. Wacko ideas, huh?

 

Yeah, this is not a gender thing. We all do it.

[Treasa]

You've always struck me as a veritable ray of sunshine, that's for sure.

 

This made me choke a little on my water.

 

I'll never take you for granted, GorillaTheater.

[GorillaTheater]

This made me choke a little on my water.

 

I'll never take you for granted, GorillaTheater.

 

And I'll never be able to read your posts again without imaging a T-Rex.

 

And that's NOT a bad thing.

[GorillaTheater]

Nope. I dont come here and give sugarcoated advice to people.

 

Thats funny, because men that do the same dont get such a bad reputation as me!

 

That's because you won't allow the jack-booted fascist male oppressors of women to subjugate you and bend you to their black-hearted will. You've freed yourself of the need to stroke the egos of the patriarchy. You go girl.

Edited May 1, 2013 by GorillaTheater
General illiteracy issues. And testosterone.

[GorillaTheater]

So why isnt Ninjapajamas getting as much negative feedback as me? HUH????? He isnt a ray of sunshine either, why do you all gang up on Peyton when there are misogynists everywhere? Ive asked this question to countless females on here and they conveniently ignore it. It is a very important question why I GET BASHED and nobody bashes the misogynists that permeate this site!

 

Keenly was griping about the same thing recently, about how in his thread about a break-up and generally hating on women, he caught far more crap than a similar thread started by a woman.

 

Maybe I can introduce the two of you.

[Ninjainpajamas]

So why isnt Ninjapajamas getting as much negative feedback as me? HUH????? He isnt a ray of sunshine either, why do you all gang up on Peyton when there are misogynists everywhere? Ive asked this question to countless females on here and they conveniently ignore it. It is a very important question why I GET BASHED and nobody bashes the misogynists that permeate this site!

 

Right, because there wasn't an entire thread where my "ray of sunshine" was challenged and quite often is by some posters.

 

But no, no, it's all about you...the world is against you...typical woman

 

I wonder how long it'll take you to figure out that I was antagonizing you, much like you antagonize men with half-truths and biases of extreme examples that might not even have anything to do with them.

 

I personally am nothing like the "average guy" or even anything like the man you described in your other thread regarding affection and how after two months they taper off, etc..but I'll defend the average guy against an extreme right of bias towards the male gender nonetheless and have done the same for women. Because I know very well women are different in the way they do things, men are just to me more transparent like dogs, you can tell their mood or intent if you just recognize the obvious, women are more like cats, you don't know if they're going to let you pet them or try to claw your face off suddenly.

 

It's always much easier to gain support defending women than it is for men, I think it's socially acceptable to critique and talk negatively regarding men because it makes us bad people for not wanting to commit. Women are projected as wholesome and loving creatures, only trying to care and nurture us for the sake of our own good...regardless of how the man actually feels or wants, it always ends up his fault, even if the woman walks into the "trap" herself knowingly...which is often, women are persistent and won't leave when they're supposed to, even when it's to protect themselves, and men often get the blame for a woman's emotions, the person who cries is automatically the victim. Nobody takes responsibility on either side of the ball.

[pbjbear]

Right, because there wasn't an entire thread where my "ray of sunshine" was challenged and quite often is by some posters.

 

But no, no, it's all about you...the world is against you...typical woman

 

I wonder how long it'll take you to figure out that I was antagonizing you, much like you antagonize men with half-truths and biases of extreme examples that might not even have anything to do with them.

 

I personally am nothing like the "average guy" or even anything like the man you described in your other thread regarding affection and how after two months they taper off, etc..but I'll defend the average guy against an extreme right of bias towards the male gender nonetheless and have done the same for women. Because I know very well women are different in the way they do things, men are just to me more transparent like dogs, you can tell their mood or intent if you just recognize the obvious, women are more like cats, you don't know if they're going to let you pet them or try to claw your face off suddenly.

 

It's always much easier to gain support defending women than it is for men, I think it's socially acceptable to critique and talk negatively regarding men because it makes us bad people for not wanting to commit. Women are projected as wholesome and loving creatures, only trying to care and nurture us for the sake of our own good...regardless of how the man actually feels or wants, it always ends up his fault, even if the woman walks into the "trap" herself knowingly...which is often, women are persistent and won't leave when they're supposed to, even when it's to protect themselves, and men often get the blame for a woman's emotions, the person who cries is automatically the victim. Nobody takes responsibility on either side of the ball.

 

Im not being a victim. Ive looked through your posting history and when you write generalizations you get less negative feedback than me. Nice try.

 

Im not a victim. I dont sit at home crying I dont have a guy. Ive already said 3425289758239475r489 times I stop seeing any guy who treats me badly. I dont do any of the stuff you said. If I did I probably wouldnt be single. Perhaps you arent comprehending what Im saying?

[clia]

So why isnt Ninjapajamas getting as much negative feedback as me? HUH????? He isnt a ray of sunshine either, why do you all gang up on Peyton when there are misogynists everywhere? Ive asked this question to countless females on here and they conveniently ignore it. It is a very important question why I GET BASHED and nobody bashes the misogynists that permeate this site!

 

I think you get bashed because you paint all men with a broad stroke as being selfish, terrible people. I happen to know that isn't true, so it is hard for me to take your posts seriously. I've dated a lot of wonderful men. Further, if any male poster says anything remotely negative about women, you immediately brand them a misogynist. I don't understand why you allow yourself to get so worked up over what anonymous people are saying. Misogynists, douchebags, and jerks do exist. So what? You can't change everyone. Just put them on ignore.

 

I also think you are far from the only person who gets bashed on a regular basis around here. I can think of two male posters off the top of my head who get bashed a lot. You also do your fair share of bashing others for providing an opposing viewpoint.

[pbjbear]

**** you all. Im done with this site.

 

Piss off and go hate on more women who use their brain.

 

By the way, SEVERAL MEN ON THIS SITE PAINTED ALL WOMEN AS TERRIBLE PEOPLE ONA REGULAR BASIS.

[Ninjainpajamas]

**** you all. Im done with this site.

 

Piss off and go hate on more women who use their brain.

 

By the way, SEVERAL MEN ON THIS SITE PAINTED ALL WOMEN AS TERRIBLE PEOPLE ONA REGULAR BASIS.

 

You're obviously angry, defensive and unhappy/disappointed with your love life.

 

You walk around with paper mask in your hand with the face of the type of men you hate, and whenever you see a shred of behavior that reminds you of this type of person you slap on the paper mask to the poster and start going off on them.

 

You come here to take out your anger on anonymous people, these men, and say it's because you're a "woman with who uses her brain", is that what you tell yourself to hide the way you really feel? The other female posters here aren't using their brains? that's how you justify your behavior and conceal an obvious emotional wound? Is someone not feeling accepted?

 

Oh but you're justified in that behavior as long as "some men" exude/portray that behavior? you're going to have a long troubled life if you get angry and irate every time someone does or says something that pisses you off, because it's never going to change.

 

But go hide in your cave, you obviously need a hug.

[JourneyLady]

So why isnt Ninjapajamas getting as much negative feedback as me? HUH????? He isnt a ray of sunshine either, why do you all gang up on Peyton when there are misogynists everywhere? Ive asked this question to countless females on here and they conveniently ignore it. It is a very important question why I GET BASHED and nobody bashes the misogynists that permeate this site!

 

Speaking entirely for myself, if I see any poster that picks on people, I will usually set to "ignore" eventually. Depends on the quality of what they say. I will say that I do see a lot of projection going on in people of both sexes. You certainly can't see emotional expression in a forum a whole lot.

 

I too have been taken for granted. It usually starts after the "honeymoon period" is over with. It can happen with both sexes, but with guys it is often more noticeable, because they come so far down from where they started you off at.

 

Most notable behaviors:

- fewer compliments, fewer "you're so great and I'm so lucky"

- MUCH less help with chores (he sits reading email while I'm clearing the table and doing the washing up)

- spending less time is a particular one. Marriage builder principles say it takes FIFTEEN hours a week to remain in love with your partner. Many relationships start out with that fifteen hours a week (that's three nights of five hour being with/talking with/hanging out one on one togetherness). Suddenly everything else is more important - watching tv, sleeping, sometimes who knows what...

One ex-bf said he couldn't possibly spend that much time with me, because too much self-care was involved.

 

I happened to know that he spent at least six hours a week reading email, and six more browsing the web. He needed hot baths for his muscles, but we could have talked while he was taking them. Who knows, might have led to other togetherness activities? :-D

 

I just was not a priority in his life and that became more and more evident over time. He, on the other hand, took top priority over everything else in my life, except for when my mother fell down the stairs and needed me to help with her recovery.

 

That from a guy who told me I was "just what the doctor ordered" when we had been together a week, was wowed by the chemistry of sex, and was amazed to find a woman who would love his kids as he did. Five years in and he became pretty much a GIGS fella and not wanting to really do any work at all to keep the relationship together.

 

Oh, and complaining about my weight in the meantime... Of course I gained weight with him. I was unhappy! (I have since lost 29 pounds.)

 

Too all who feel they are taken for granted (male and female). Let's revolt!

WE ARE MAD AS HELL AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

 

[off soapbox]

Basically from now on, a guy has to prove himself to me or I'm not sticking around. If I'm going to be lonely, I'd rather be alone than with someone and lonely.

[candie13]

**** you all. Im done with this site.

 

Piss off and go hate on more women who use their brain.

 

By the way, SEVERAL MEN ON THIS SITE PAINTED ALL WOMEN AS TERRIBLE PEOPLE ONA REGULAR BASIS.

 

If I may, your biggest sin, is that of generalization. Who cares about what some men think? Relax! In order for LS to be a good thing for you, you need to be less involved emotionally. Only then, will you appreciate the value of getting pov that fundamentally different from yours. That is really priceless, IMHO!

 

I think you are so hung up on not wanting to make errors, that in the end, you are still making them, for all the wrong reasons.

 

As for "taking women for granted", this implies a lack of recognition from men, in front of some obvious efforts from women's side. Which raises some questions: no 1. how come the woman made those efforts in the first place? and no.2 how legitimate are her expectations of "recognition of efforts".

 

Here's what I think about taking women for granted:

 

- I think that generally, women show sooner that they like their partner (compared to men). There's nothing wrong with that, especially if it's genuine.

 

- the tricky part comes with the expectations. After showing that they care - or generally doing something nice - they expect the man to reciprocate or to remember that, as if there was a secret score each partner kept. "I made you dinner three times". "I've remembered to call you before your big meeting to wish you good luck". "I've organized two birthday parties for you".

 

- in reality, no one owes anyone else zilch. If you do something, you do it because you like it. It gave you pleasure. It's about you. The partner is not accountable for anything, because he may not have the same tastes as you. Or way of behaving. HE may not even appreciate your efforts - because maybe you're just weird to him and he is kindly tolerating you (doing you a favor ).

 

- for sure, love is about mirroring -but the mirroring of feelings, the degree of implication, the ultimate goals. As for how one reaches them, the road... no, it is not symmetrical for both partners. And it's normal.

 

- if one partner feels that his SO is taking them for granted in a certain area - let's say cleaning, it is his responsibility to flag it asap and discuss it. Most of the times, there is no immediate solution... maybe no solution at all to that - the partner may be an irremediably messy person who is never able to conform to the strict hygiene rules of a clean freak. He has to make efforts, though. Appreciate their SO doing the big chunk of the chores... but he can never fundamentally change. But he may make up in other areas - he may be incredibly air-headed and romantic and make this incredible photos and videos and bring flowers to his SO every Sunday. For some women, it's good enough. For others, it's hell on Earth. It all depends on how one views compatibility (similarities versus complementarity)

 

- in the end, in a real relationship, there will always be one who will give more and one who will take more. It's just how life works. But as long as both partners are happy together, none of them is taking the other for a ride, and both feel more enriched together than apart, than they have a strong relationship together. Not perfect. Never heard anyone having a perfect relationship, really...

[JourneyLady]

in reality, no one owes anyone else zilch.

 

From my perspective, it's not a matter of owing. The relationship is a third entity that exists between two people if they agree to be in one. You either tend it carefully, not so carefully, or you don't on a spectrum...

 

If one party is tending it carefully, (giving attention and care to the other person) and one isn't, there is going to be a problem. Today, or tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or next year ... there is going to be a problem. Because by taking your partner for granted you are let the relationship drift away.

 

Which is fine. If that's what you want.

But if for all intents and purposes, you actually want a relationship with the other person, you'd better well tend it. Male or female, you'd better.

 

Because if you don't, someone else will.

OR your partner will eventually bail in search of that someone else.

 

Grass can't be green if not watered.

[Feelin Frisky]

How not to take her for granted is to mind the dynamics of "want" and "have". A guy, as well as a woman, has to consider "want" to be the key to romance. "Having" only defaults to "want" for something else. So, how do couples try to keep "want" for each other alive while "having"? IMO it calls for both to have strong independent interests and identities which keep one side or the other from falling into absolute dependence a/k/a co-dependence. No one can have a fulfilling life and serve a neurotic co-dependent. It's one or the other. So, you want to encourage and support each other having something else of interest in which to create healthy levels of "want" for each other. I know I never learned and don't live this theory now but I made terrible mistakes that tell me this was the answer. I walked right into a neurotic and tried beyond good sense to try to make it work. I would have known way sooner when it's time to admit you're working with unsuitable material.

[JourneyLady]

Agree with that, Frisk.

 

Somewhere I read (may have been marriage builders, or it may have been somewhere else), that when polled about when people were most attracted to their partner, it was when they were at a distance but still felt belonging.

 

Like "across the room chatting with others", or "on stage giving a speech", or some other situation in which the partner is not close at hand, but also not out of sight. A comfortable distance...

 

I know my ex-husband and I spent most of our time much too close. (Yes we were in fact, co-dependent at the time.) When he seemed most in love with me was when I was doing open mic nights and he was in the audience and even later, participated.

 

But the venue folded, I got involved in writing projects and too much distance was created. He went "onto" other things himself...

 

So yeah, a healthy distance is necessary. How much is healthy differs from person to person. My most recent ex thought that 3 hours a week chatting online in an LDR was too much... Thus the early death of an R.

 

What's frustrating to me is when a guy wants to talk to me nightly for two weeks straight and then all of a sudden (because of events I have nothing to do with) suddenly does not want to talk for more than a week. It's just... weird.

 

(Though I do think I know some of the causes now...)

[HuffmanMontana]

**** you all. Im done with this site.

 

Piss off and go hate on more women who use their brain.

 

By the way, SEVERAL MEN ON THIS SITE PAINTED ALL WOMEN AS TERRIBLE PEOPLE ONA REGULAR BASIS.

 

You're trolling right? If not, you need to seek professional help.

[Maleficent]

^Then go back to the first page, you can't miss it. Pretty insightful, gotta say.

 

Oh I meant Pjbear's response to Ninjainpyjama's post

[Divasu]

A big one is forgetting to tell your girl how much you appreciate her, before she tries to leave. There is evidence of this, just scroll through the break-up section threads...

 

On the flip side, women can avoid being taken for granted, by being more selective. By acknowledging that change comes from within (meaning, she accepts her part in making it easy for others to have a lack of respect towards her, and makes necessary modifications in her behavior as to not allow that to happen). She always remains true to herself. This does not mean women should excuse bad behavior, but rather, increase awareness and be vigilent when/if it happens.

[TheGuard13]

**** you all. Im done with this site.

 

Piss off and go hate on more women who use their brain.

 

By the way, SEVERAL MEN ON THIS SITE PAINTED ALL WOMEN AS TERRIBLE PEOPLE ONA REGULAR BASIS.

 

Weren't you done with this site for good a couple of days ago?

[candie13]

What's frustrating to me is when a guy wants to talk to me nightly for two weeks straight and then all of a sudden (because of events I have nothing to do with) suddenly does not want to talk for more than a week. It's just... weird.

 

(Though I do think I know some of the causes now...)

 

It's not weird, it's a red flag!

 

There is no magic receipt to a LDR, but keeping personal boundaries is a must. I think that being available every night for two weeks in a row is a bit much. How about the evenings to yourself? How about the evenings out with the girls? Close friends?

 

I am not saying you should artificially create obstacles, but as you yourself pointed out earlier, you would create some space for you to still be yourself, in that relationship... even if, at the beginning, one might feel tempted to spend every waking moment with their new partner .

 

If there's a high, I must confess I always fear the low. In your case, the low was the one week no talking break... up to you to manage yourself and your relationship as it best suits you and your personality.

[candie13]

the stuff that really bugs me with "taking people for granted" is that one assumes that their partner is taking and keeps taking, without reciprocating or being fair.

 

He or she who keep giving, give because it pleases them. It may sound crazy, but there is a lot of selfishness in giving, because it makes one feel like they are "special" for giving or for doing things. Maybe it even gives them a certain power, because they may feel that their partner is "owing them" something.

 

However, if those acts of giving are necessary for the relationships or are important for the development of the relationship, the person who keep giving has the responsibility to flag it to their partner. The very moment when they start to be uncomfortable with too much "giving". It is a delicate situation and many women prefer to continue the same pattern / behavior (giving) rather than calmly but firmly confront. Ask for a fair end of the deal. Or for a clarification.

 

The partner who is the subject of the attention has a responsibility as well. He is either "taking" or he is being tolerant towards the effort of their partner, in an area the potentially is of no interest to him. He may really not care is he talks to her gf once or five times a day. Yet, she may feel taken for granted, thinking "he never calls me".

 

It's all about setting up boundaries. Doing things for your partner, of course, but also talking about expectation (if any). Communicating. Understanding what's important for your partner and tailoring your behavior according to that - if, of course, the partners care about each other and want to keep seeing each other, even if some changes in one's behavior are necessary (usually, men bail if too much effort is requested too early on).

 

Many times, one of the partners is overly hopeful / enthusiastic and may invest too much, too soon, in their relationship. It's not bad to care. It's not bad to show that one cares. But it is that person's responsibility to keep his or her eyes on the reality and confront their expectations with those of his or her partner. By not talking and continuing to invest, one is actively transforming him or herself in a potential victim / the eternal "giver" / woman cleaning up the house on herself, because she fears / is uncomfortable / loathes / confronting her husband on that matter.

 

Nobody's fault but their own for not having the guts to deal with it early on, before that situation transforms into a status quo.