Household Chores Disparity

May 6, 2013

I can't imagine doing someone else's laundry or letting someone do mine.

My child has been washing her own clothes and towels for years.

Im assuming I own an iron.

May 6, 2013

Listen, I'm coming from Eastern Europe and there, women are the housewives, entertainers, tutor for the kids, mothers, slaves in the kitchen and goddesses in the bedroom. And running companies too.

I'll tell you what my mom told me: you've got the partner you've educated. if you've taught your partner to be lazy, chances are they will never change.

Of course, I believe you are way to nice and totally entitled to raise hell. You should, it's your right, because your girl is sort of taking you for granted. She needs to at least appreciate the efforts.

ok, so the wrong is done, now, what can you do? A lot of studies have shown that the way the two partners participate to the chores, in a household, is not divided equally. And actually, inside the happiest homes, the disparity is even more obvious.

So while you should for sure stop to be the maid, she should get more involved. Unfortunately, as you yourself have said it, she'll never do the things just as quick or just as well as you do.

It is not fair for you to do all that. Therefore, I suggest you make her pay for a maid. Yes. A maid to come, once ever two weeks, paid by yours truly, to give you the time off you need from scrubbing the floor and from the ironing. Yes, and she should pay.

In addition to that, she should take care of something too, in that relationship. Let's say paying the bills. The rent. Any administrative part that's not done via e-banking. If you are investing more in keeping the house clean, she should invest more in keeping the bills clear.

It only seems fair.Whatever arrangement you two find, for sure, she cannot continue living as a child and you cannot continue living as a parent. How about you? Who's taking care of you?

Unfortunately, it's only your fault for having tolerated this situation this far. There's a lesson in this for you, as well, not just for her.

May 6, 2013

Notice how you're setting her up to fail by raising the bar? You've initially addressed her slacking and discussed this with her, where she's agreed to a split of the chores. This is good. But notice how you've now raised the bar with not only what she does but your expectations of level of cleanliness and are cutting her abilities down?

If you wish her to fail because you don't want to live with her, then push her out now. Otherwise, no more second-guessing or bar raising unless you're prepared to set the bar with honest and open communications, so she's aware of your exact requirements.

he's not "expecting her to fail". He's a clean freak. It takes one to recognize one. He can tell when the oven isn't cleaned properly. Same for the kitchen floor.

I'm afraid, John, if you really want this to work, you're gonna have to very calmly explain her how to do these talks. Show her. Have her near you. Then, she will understand.

In my case, I get so mad about these things, I lack patience to such a high degree, that I'd much rather scrub the kitchen floor twice than watch him play the dead man in it.

That's why I'm dead set against living with any man. Not unless babies and wedding bells are in sight. Like that's gonna happen anytime soon

May 7, 2013

he's not "expecting her to fail". He's a clean freak. It takes one to recognize one. He can tell when the oven isn't cleaned properly. Same for the kitchen floor.

I'm afraid, John, if you really want this to work, you're gonna have to very calmly explain her how to do these talks. Show her. Have her near you. Then, she will understand.

In my case, I get so mad about these things, I lack patience to such a high degree, that I'd much rather scrub the kitchen floor twice than watch him play the dead man in it.

That's why I'm dead set against living with any man. Not unless babies and wedding bells are in sight. Like that's gonna happen anytime soon

I'm a clean freak too. You can eat off my floors in the kitchen. This doesn't mean that it's not my responsibility to communicate to my husband, the level of cleanliness that I prefer to live in. Hell, I even use coasters and a napkin for glasses of water!

But if you set up an expectation which JohnM has done, why would you expect them to fail, particularly when you haven't discussed the level of cleanliness that's preferred? It's not as if she's magically going to know this. People who can live with mess and dirt, don't think the same way. They don't see any of it.

May 7, 2013

I had a look through older threads and was going to post in another similar recent one but that's gone on long enough to be bringing new stuff to the table...

Was that mine?

I'm getting a bit sick of it now though, I do the majority of cooking yet still end up doing the washing up too. She goes through a hell of a lot of clothes per week and more often than not just dumps them on the bedroom floor or in the bathroom or living room when she takes them off. Does my head in having to collect it all in and 'testing' whether it needs to go in the wash or not.

Don't believe she has once cleaned any of the bathroom and I cleanup and maintain the cat litter every week and change it. I tried to kind of impose a splitting of the tasks by when I had done all the washing I would put the clothes away that I could and then leave a tub of ironing that needed doing. Alas, I end up doing it anyhow.

Sounds to me like you're picking all that up off your own bat. Why?

The washing is really, really easy to settle. Have a 'yours' and 'hers' hamper. You settle your own. If she wants to keep hers unwashed and not ironed, she faces the consequences. And really, women's undies don't turn inside-out as well as men's do.

The tasks just seem to mount up and I'm getting fed up of always taking the bins out etc. How have you all dealt with dividing up the tasks fairly? I had considered a chart of tasks but I don't think it would be kept to. I am considering asking her if she would be open to taking tasks or areas of the house as ours each to look after. Such as I would handle laundry and ironing and emptying the bins, she could do the kitchen and bathroom cleaning. Split the cat duties and hoovering?

Dunno, I just feel it could cause a massive fight if it's not brought up and dealt with correctly so want to gauge opinions and advice please loveshackers!

My opinion is that it seems that both of you just have very different ideas on what is considered 'acceptable' housekeeping, and in that case IME the best way to compromise is to segregate tasks as much as possible. As in the laundry example. Another example might include the cooking - if neither of you feels like cooking that night, maybe just get takeaway or fix something really simple like a sandwich, instead of doing it yourself and resenting it?

The cat is not so easy, obviously, neither is the cleanliness of a shared space, so both of you will have to talk about an acceptable compromise for these. Note that a compromise means that you too will have to compromise: Which means either doing more or settling for less cleanliness. As some wise poster told me in the thread I made about this: "If you delegate a task, you need to be able to give up some control over how it's done."

With regards to her working more hours, in my opinion that actually is a valid reason. Note that I am speaking from your side of the equation: When I had a lot of spare time I actually did do most of the housework of my own accord. I don't think you guys have to do things the same way we do, but it is something worth considering. Put it this way, if you had to work more hours than her, wouldn't you want her to pick up the slack?

Edit: Note that my opinion bears the caveat that your relationship is otherwise healthy and children are not in the plans. If there are children in the plans, obviously it would be much more important to see eye-to-eye on these things, and if you genuinely feel you can't bring this up with her without a 'massive fight', you have to ask yourself why.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Elswyth

May 7, 2013

Notice how you're setting her up to fail by raising the bar? You've initially addressed her slacking and discussed this with her, where she's agreed to a split of the chores. This is good. But notice how you've now raised the bar with not only what she does but your expectations of level of cleanliness and are cutting her abilities down?

If you wish her to fail because you don't want to live with her, then push her out now. Otherwise, no more second-guessing or bar raising unless you're prepared to set the bar with honest and open communications, so she's aware of your exact requirements.

I don't think I have. If I said to you that the kitchen was mine to keep on top of, what would you think that entailed? Just doing the dishes? i don't think so. A kitchen has an oven, hob, grill, and surfaces for a start that all need cleaning, that's not upping it, that's just basic cleaning. Doing the dishes is not cleaning the kitchen.

I'm a clean freak too. You can eat off my floors in the kitchen. This doesn't mean that it's not my responsibility to communicate to my husband, the level of cleanliness that I prefer to live in. Hell, I even use coasters and a napkin for glasses of water!

But if you set up an expectation which JohnM has done, why would you expect them to fail, particularly when you haven't discussed the level of cleanliness that's preferred? It's not as if she's magically going to know this. People who can live with mess and dirt, don't think the same way. They don't see any of it.

I'm not going around with a white glove looking for dust. I'm not a neat freak, I'm not asking for the tasks to be done every day, once every week or two is fine if it's regularly done. I don't expect spotless but if a surface is covered with sugar and dried in tomato pasta sauce then thats pretty obvious it needs a wipe. I shouldn't have to highlight that kind of detail.

Sounds to me like you're picking all that up off your own bat. Why?

The washing is really, really easy to settle. Have a 'yours' and 'hers' hamper. You settle your own. If she wants to keep hers unwashed and not ironed, she faces the consequences. And really, women's undies don't turn inside-out as well as men's do.

My opinion is that it seems that both of you just have very different ideas on what is considered 'acceptable' housekeeping

The cat is not so easy, obviously, neither is the cleanliness of a shared space, so both of you will have to talk about an acceptable compromise for these. Note that a compromise means that you too will have to compromise: Which means either doing more or settling for less cleanliness. As some wise poster told me in the thread I made about this: "If you delegate a task, you need to be able to give up some control over how it's done."

With regards to her working more hours, in my opinion that actually is a valid reason. Note that I am speaking from your side of the equation: When I had a lot of spare time I actually did do most of the housework of my own accord. I don't think you guys have to do things the same way we do, but it is something worth considering. Put it this way, if you had to work more hours than her, wouldn't you want her to pick up the slack?

Edit: Note that my opinion bears the caveat that your relationship is otherwise healthy and children are not in the plans. If there are children in the plans, obviously it would be much more important to see eye-to-eye on these things, and if you genuinely feel you can't bring this up with her without a 'massive fight', you have to ask yourself why.

Yeah, I've done washing every night this week so will be tackling the ironing pile later. It does take a large amount of time to keep on top of it so I think it balances out in the long run. I think she probably does, I get the feeling that she would rather leave everything to become a mess and then try to fight back to the minimum whereas I would rather keep on top of it when its gotten to a lesser extent of messy.

I think the shared spaces is a trouble spot, but its too hard to settle responsibility. I think in the lounge I'll just have to settle for keeping it clear because it can quickly become messy and its easily kept on top of.

I can understand the argument for working hours, but I guess its that if she is doing an extra ten or so hours a week I don't feel I should be doing all of that share on tasks, because the extra hours she works is just more money in her pocket that she gets to spend. It's not coming in to the household income, where I would put its value against the extra chores I would pick up in turn.

Suppose that's an issue I take, she states she has to work more hours and therefore resents me being at home more than her and so thinks I should be looking after the house because of that fact. She works through her own choice for the extra money for herself and I don't ask for it from her even though she is here rent free at any rate. Why I should be punished for something of her own free will is beyond me.

May 7, 2013

the extra hours she works is just more money in her pocket that she gets to spend. It's not coming in to the household income, where I would put its value against the extra chores I would pick up in turn.

She works through her own choice for the extra money for herself and I don't ask for it from her even though she is here rent free

Have her pay for a housekeeper to do her chores (make a list of them). You do your chores.

May 7, 2013

Yeah, I've done washing every night this week so will be tackling the ironing pile later. It does take a large amount of time to keep on top of it so I think it balances out in the long run. I think she probably does, I get the feeling that she would rather leave everything to become a mess and then try to fight back to the minimum whereas I would rather keep on top of it when its gotten to a lesser extent of messy.

Just have her keep her undone laundry in one hamper, then what she does with it is up to her. That really isn't too much to ask and is a much easier compromise to achieve than having her clean the oven to a certain standard every week or so.

I think the shared spaces is a trouble spot, but its too hard to settle responsibility. I think in the lounge I'll just have to settle for keeping it clear because it can quickly become messy and its easily kept on top of.

I can understand the argument for working hours, but I guess its that if she is doing an extra ten or so hours a week I don't feel I should be doing all of that share on tasks, because the extra hours she works is just more money in her pocket that she gets to spend. It's not coming in to the household income, where I would put its value against the extra chores I would pick up in turn.

Suppose that's an issue I take, she states she has to work more hours and therefore resents me being at home more than her and so thinks I should be looking after the house because of that fact. She works through her own choice for the extra money for herself and I don't ask for it from her even though she is here rent free at any rate. Why I should be punished for something of her own free will is beyond me.

Ah, okay, now I get where you're coming from.

IMO this is a touchy subject. If it's something she HAD to do - ie her profession leaves her no choice in the # of hours she does - then I would have more sympathy for her. In this case, if she is choosing to do more hours for more money and thus expecting you to pick up the housework, I'd agree that part of that money should either go to shared expenses or to a housekeeper.

May 8, 2013

If you're not working then why not do the chores? What are you going to do, sleep all day??

I work part time, plus I do enjoy doing things that I enjoy, not just chores. I've just done all the ironing and now I'm off to play football. Balance occur to you?

Just have her keep her undone laundry in one hamper, then what she does with it is up to her. That really isn't too much to ask and is a much easier compromise to achieve than having her clean the oven to a certain standard every week or so.

Ah, okay, now I get where you're coming from.

IMO this is a touchy subject. If it's something she HAD to do - ie her profession leaves her no choice in the # of hours she does - then I would have more sympathy for her. In this case, if she is choosing to do more hours for more money and thus expecting you to pick up the housework, I'd agree that part of that money should either go to shared expenses or to a housekeeper.

It's not the cleaning to a standard, it's that it isn't being done at all. Don't know if my wording has been incorrect what with being called a neat freak and whatnot. It's more that I expect most people would expect keeping the kitchen cleaned would not just mean doing the dishes.

She could leave her job entirely if she wanted to, I'm taking care of rent and tax on my end so her income is her choice and benefit really. I think it's just a resentment that I have more free time and she sees it that she is doing a job she doesn't want to do and therefore becomes bitter about balance.

May 8, 2013

I don't understand how two adults are making such a mess on a daily basis that this is creating such a problem. Do you live in the Taj Mahal or something? I can't see how anyone would have to spend more than 4-6 hours a week on cleaning if you are living in an average sized home and have no children.

I would suggest doing a deeper clean together each weekend for, say, 2-3 hours. Make a list of everything that needs to be done (i.e. vacuum, clean floors, scrub bathrooms, dust, clean stove/oven/fridge, wash windows), split it up, and both of you do that for 2-3 hours or however long it takes every Saturday or Sunday. Between the two of you, a total of 4-6 hours of cleaning should be sufficient.

Then, during the week, just do the basic stuff. Clean up your dishes, wipe the counters or floors if you spill, pick your crap up off the floor, take out the trash, etc. This shouldn't take either of you more than 30 minutes a day. I just don't see the big deal here. If she leaves her stuff laying around, throw it all into an out of the way corner, room, or area of your choosing. Let it pile up. If she doesn't want to put it away properly, that's where it goes.

As for the cat litter...who does the cat belong to? That person should be in charge of cleaning out the cat litter.

I agree with other posters on the laundry. If she tosses her stuff on the ground, throw it all in a hamper and let her do her own. Problem solved. You are only encouraging her to continue this behavior if you do her laundry. I also don't understand why you are having to do laundry every day and why there is so much ironing to do. Why are so many clothes being dirtied up every day?

At the end of the day, you two may just be incompatible when it comes to cleanliness. How did she grow up? Does she even know how to clean properly? Some people don't. Maybe she needs you to show her. (If the two of you clean together on the weekend, it would be an opportune time to do that.)

May 8, 2013

I don't understand how two adults are making such a mess on a daily basis that this is creating such a problem. Do you live in the Taj Mahal or something? I can't see how anyone would have to spend more than 4-6 hours a week on cleaning if you are living in an average sized home and have no children.

As for the cat litter...who does the cat belong to? That person should be in charge of cleaning out the cat litter.

I agree with other posters on the laundry. If she tosses her stuff on the ground, throw it all in a hamper and let her do her own. Problem solved. You are only encouraging her to continue this behavior if you do her laundry. I also don't understand why you are having to do laundry every day and why there is so much ironing to do. Why are so many clothes being dirtied up every day?

At the end of the day, you two may just be incompatible when it comes to cleanliness. How did she grow up? Does she even know how to clean properly? Some people don't. Maybe she needs you to show her. (If the two of you clean together on the weekend, it would be an opportune time to do that.)

I can't explain it, but if laundry isn't done for a week then the ensuing pile up is going to amount to about three washes which is sixty mins each, then drying and ironing so yeah, a couple of hours. If she uses a shirt, pants and apron each shift then that means four or five sets a week. Clothes from sports twice a week plus other clothes.

Deep clean once a week or so is a good shout. I do do the cleaning up afterwards, I wipe a surface after cooking and go over the hobs and put all my things away and in a washing hamper. She's not so organised, my side of the bedroom is clear, hers has clothes all along it. Have to nag each day for her to bring clothes into the washing basket. The cat was a joint purchase, but I'm sorting the litter now and keep on top of it. In a home with her brother, father and mother though early teens she lost her dad and brother moved abroad so was living with her mum since then until she moved in with me.

May 10, 2013

It's not the cleaning to a standard, it's that it isn't being done at all. Don't know if my wording has been incorrect what with being called a neat freak and whatnot. It's more that I expect most people would expect keeping the kitchen cleaned would not just mean doing the dishes.

I honestly don't see what needs to be cleaned on a very regular basis except the dishes and countertop. Everything else (floor, cabinets, oven) is more occasional. Confession: We have never cleaned the oven, ever, and we lived in our last house for 2 years straight. We cleaned it just once when we moved in, then use foil to cover the tray when we use it the rest of the time.

But that's the thing, different people have different ideas of what is required. Have you considered my separate laundry suggestion? If her clothes pile up in HER hamper, then they pile up. She will have to clean them eventually or run out.

She could leave her job entirely if she wanted to, I'm taking care of rent and tax on my end so her income is her choice and benefit really. I think it's just a resentment that I have more free time and she sees it that she is doing a job she doesn't want to do and therefore becomes bitter about balance.

Are you sure about this? I don't mean to be snarky, but rent is not the end all, be all of expenditure. If she were to quit her job entirely to take care of the housework, you would have to pay for her personal expenses as well, and you would not be able to split other shared expenses such as food.

You really have two choices: 1) Talk to her and both of you compromise, and 2) Decide that it's not worth compromising on.

May 10, 2013

Are you sure about this? I don't mean to be snarky, but rent is not the end all, be all of expenditure. If she were to quit her job entirely to take care of the housework, you would have to pay for her personal expenses as well, and you would not be able to split other shared expenses such as food.

You really have two choices: 1) Talk to her and both of you compromise, and 2) Decide that it's not worth compromising on.

I didn't mean in the sense that she could quit and then do chores. I mean, in terms of the household bills and rent if she lost her job there would be minimal change to the house costs. The rent, council tax would remain unaffected as I cover them and the utility bills and food costs are minimal and currently split. I wouldn't undertake a property without the safety net that if all went downhill I couldn't support it all solo. The point I was making was that the job merely serves to provide her money to spend on extraneous activities and optional purchases, its just money in her pocket, not mine.

I'm leaving it a couple of months to see how it settles down, it'll take a while to see if the current arrangement works or not, if not then I'll take on board the points made and we'll discuss what is expected from us both fairly.

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