Author coaches24 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Posted May 31, 2013 I am very confident she isn't cheating now. She showed me pics and such from her 3:30 night now and that was the only time she's been out that late. With things that she said in counseling and the fact she is willing to continue and agreed with me that the first session went well and could help us there is no reason for me to end things now. We both agreed we could have a future. Some of the things she said to me early on in this were out of hurt and spite and not her real feelings ( it's just now coming out unfortunately). We have a very long way to go and a lot of things to work through and we may never be able to figure it all out but I am much happier trying to fix things than moving on and dealing with all the stress that comes with that. Some of you are too quick to make up your mind I think and it seems to me from reading on this site that too many think you should leave at the first sign of trouble and that trying to work things out is somehow being weak or dumb ( and it's not just my situation I read that on). I personally disagree with those people and regardless what happens with my wife and me I will never think its ok to walk away without trying to fix the issues unless there is some kind of abuse happening or maybe a couple other serious situations might make it the right move but I do not think its right in situations like mine (and many others I have seen post with similar situations). There is no downside to me trying to save my marriage and family. If it is doomed no matter what like some of you claim then I will lose nothing but time by trying to fix it and make sure. But I have everything to gain by trying to fix my marriage. I married her with the intention of her being the person I grew old with, never to be with another and I am not giving up on that until I have tried everything possible. If that's being weak and letting her dictate things to you then so be it.
2sunny Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Were her pictures date and time stamped? What is a valid reason for any married gal to stay out until 330am? I'd like to know what her explanation included. You skip over things here that might help explain things. Then you assume we all have the wrong idea about your wife. Start communicating with us effectively if you want us to understand why you aren't her doormat. 2
trippi1432 Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Coaches - I see nothing wrong with wanting to do MC if she is agreeable, and I see nothing wrong with wanting to work on yourself....BUT, do it for you. Don't do it to look for a result from her. Keep in mind that your wife's general unhappiness comes from within her and only she can fix it and snap out of it. Don't allow yourself to become frustrated trying too hard to please her, and don't put all of your happiness in her. Be open in your communication with her and maintain your boundaries such as the late nights out...bring those up in MC as well and have the counselor help mediate. 1
2sunny Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Your title says "she never loved me" Do you intend to stay in a loveless M forever?
Author coaches24 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Posted May 31, 2013 Your title says "she never loved me" Do you intend to stay in a loveless M forever? My title says that because this was made right after she said that too me. She has since told me differently.
2sunny Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 My title says that because this was made right after she said that too me. She has since told me differently. Which comment does your gut tell you her actions support - that she acts like she loves you or not? Is she willing now to make you her top priority? 1
Steadfast Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I am much happier trying to fix things than moving on and dealing with all the stress that comes with that. We all must carve our own path coach. We all must learn the lesson. There is no downside to me trying to save my marriage and family. I say this with all respect and no hostility; you don't know crap. You think you know...you're mixing fear and instinct into a potion that goes down easier. Thing is, you already discarded the very best chance you had for making profound changes for the better in your marriage. You are in limbo coach, and you're stubbornly sticking to your plan. But, again, you must. I know. I had one too. Looking back, I wish I didn't now. I should have STOPPED all that was happening and installed clear boundaries. But I was afraid. No one said what you're going through is easy. It isn't. Once again, keep posting. Pulling for you- 1
2sunny Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 We all must carve our own path coach. We all must learn the lesson. I say this with all respect and no hostility; you don't know crap. You think you know...you're mixing fear and instinct into a potion that goes down easier. Thing is, you already discarded the very best chance you had for making profound changes for the better in your marriage. You are in limbo coach, and you're stubbornly sticking to your plan. But, again, you must. I know. I had one too. Looking back, I wish I didn't now. I should have STOPPED all that was happening and installed clear boundaries. But I was afraid. No one said what you're going through is easy. It isn't. Once again, keep posting. Pulling for you- Good post! I also agree - a solid, healthy boundary helps to take care of one's own self. He's now missed the golden opportunity to earn his wife's respect. She's exhibited bad behavior and he gave no consequences (except weak and silly questions by email). Rewarding her bad behavior leads to more bad behavior - and thinking less of you. 1
hayewils Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Which comment does your gut tell you her actions support - that she acts like she loves you or not? Is she willing now to make you her top priority? I agree with this one.. I questioned my wife about how she treated her son over me. I do believe in loving your children, but husband and wife should stand on a higher level. I tried, tried tried.. her son always got better treatment than i ever hoped of recieving. I was never a top priority. She would just get mad at me. Thats one big thing that I cant stand and stops me from wanting to go back to it. She can take it somewhere else, to someone else.. lets see how far it gets her.
hayewils Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Wow coach.. You and I are really in the same locked up stress God be with us all. 2
RonaldS Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I realized after some time that my ex never truly loved me. She was probably infatuated with me at some point, and she became tremendously dependent on me, but when I look back, I see that she never, ever respected me. Somebody wise here (probably Gunny) once said that you can't love a person if you don't respect them. 2
hayewils Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Gunny sent me some really great stuff yesterday. Definatly need to have him send you some of his great things to think about.. Hes awesome.
2sunny Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I realized after some time that my ex never truly loved me. She was probably infatuated with me at some point, and she became tremendously dependent on me, but when I look back, I see that she never, ever respected me. Somebody wise here (probably Gunny) once said that you can't love a person if you don't respect them. I think this is the basis of the issue with his wife - she doesn't respect him = she doesn't love him. Heck - what respectful wife goes out - doesn't check in or answer calls - and stays out until 3:30am? No respectful wife would!!! He should have ripped her a new a hole for what she's one! But no - he sends a whiny and wimpy email that ASKS silly questions! Start demanding respect! Earn some respect! Give her consequences dude! If she's not seeing another man - she may be fooling around with her girlfriend you don't like! Don't laugh - it's actually happened here! Stop assuming she's innocent! Her actions aren't like n innocent wife - her actions are that of a wife hat disinterested in her husband! Demand to know - is SHE ALL IN the marriage or just in by a percentage less than 100%? Anything less than all in - its not worth your time and energy. She may be buying time to devise her exit plan at your expense. You've handed her too much of YOUR power! 1
Gunny376 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 I'm new to this forum and am going through a very rough time. My wife of almost 7 years ( been together for 9) just told me recently that she has been unhappy for years. She says I haven't done anything wrong but she feels no connection with me. She told me she feels like there never was any love between us and that she thinks she married me because her friends were married. I was completely blindsided as I has no clue she could possibly feel this way. I am a teacher and a coach and I left for one night to a coaches clinic thinking we were fine and when I came back everything was different. With no hint or explanation she had stopped talking to me almost entirely except for very mean comments when I tried to talk to her. After a week of that I finally sat her down after putting our child to bed and asked her what was going on. That's when she broke this bombshell on me and even got irritated that I didn't know and didn't feel the same way. And she showed no emotion at all when telling me how unhappy she was with me, almost happy to tell me. We have one child together, a four YO girl. Neither of us had children before. I want to go to marriage counseling and see if there is any way to save our marriage. She decided to try individual therapy instead and told me her therapist suggested a trial separation and also marriage counseling. I don't feel like she really wants to do marriage counseling but I am hoping she will at least try it. I just can't believe that she has been lying to me and herself for nine years about how she feels about me. I know in my heart there was love there between us and a real connection at the beginning and I want to believe that if we could open up to each other we could get that back and save our marriage. But with the way she acts when she is near me I also wonder if I'm in denial. Our daughter has caught on to our tensions and said to me the other night she thinks mommy won't sleep in the room with me because she doesn't love me anymore. I have never said anything like that to my daughter and I don't think my wife would tell our daughter that so she has figured this out on her own and it breaks my heart even more. I break down every time I think about the effect our situation has on our daughter. I don't know what to do, I want to talk to my wife and work things out but I don't know how. She is like living with a stranger now. When she is home she avoids me at all costs and won't even sit in the same room with me so we only see each other when passing through the house. Now our other issue is we are under water in our house with a first and 2nd mortgage and there is no way for us to separate like the therapist suggested without walking away from the house. Together we are able to make all our payments but no way we could afford an apartment rent and expenses on top of the mortgage. We are trying to refinance and see if we can reduce our payments but I am skeptical it will be enough even if it does happen. Losing my home in this on top of losing my wife would be devastating for me. Everyday that goes by I feel more and more hopeless with both my marriage and my home. Should I try and push marriage counseling? Do I step back and wait for her to make a decision on what she wants to do (not knowing how long I will have to wait for that ) when all she has been able to tell me on why is that she doesn't know. She has no idea about anything she feels or wants to do but she wants me to give her space. All the while I have nothing to suggest that there is anything for me to wait for. What do I do? My biggest fear out of all of this is for my daughter. What if my wife decides she wants a divorce and then wants custody of our daughter and takes her away from me. I feel like I am losing everything that is important to me and I have no where to turn. Yes it is most definitely possible for a woman to marry a guy and to have his child, and to be married to him in as many years as you have been to your wife. Happens all of the time and damn near everyday. To give yourself some insight as to the "why" of such thinking? You may want to consider reading a book titled :Passages" Passages: Predictable Crises of Adult Life: Gail Sheehy: 9780553271065: Amazon.com: Books. Really a good read for any and everyone, regardless of if their going through a divorce or not? Its a best seller and has been around for years and years. I highly recommend it. The other thing that I'm getting from you is that your very much inclined to the masculine mentality. That's not a given BTW, just because you were born with male genitalia? But for the sake of brevity I won't get into that for the time being? Your wife on the other hand seems to be more inclined toward the feminine? Let me explain. A individual regardless of their sexual / gender organs, fall upon a gradient between masculine and feminine or some combination thereof ~ relative to any given individual? Just because you were born a male anatomically doesn't mean you "think' like your atypical or so-called "normal" male would. The same applies to women. There are men who are more feminine than your atypical male, and are women who are more masculine than your atypical male. We're not just talking about sexual orientation here, nor even 'sexual identity? We're talking about the combination of both nature and nurture to form the unique individual we all are? (Whewww!!!!) With that said you seem to fall along the traditional male (or what society and our cultural deems as 'normal') and your wife along the similar 'feminine' path. Now! What I suspect is in part going on with your wife and you is? You have so disconnected from any and all of your feminine traits and disavowed them (homophobic perhaps? Or the fear of being constructed as such?) that you've no co-relation with your feminine wife? There has evolved a disconnect between the two of you because of it? Thus you will typically hear the statement of "We're two totally different people who want and need two totally different things ~ lives?" Much more than feminity being defined as "Sugar and spice, and everything nice?" Femininity is typically in our Western culture and society is defined as being caring, giving, submissive, and nurturing? Some women are ~ and then again someone women aren't. Men are defined by the social and cultural constructs of being self-dependent, self supporting, strong, hard, determined, etc. But what is missing in most descriptions of feminine and masculinity is this: Women by virture of being women and their ensuing feminity? Are......... EXPRESSIVE Women (or most women are) are expressive in most any and everything they do? Its why they spend money buying things to make a 'house' a Home? Its the little things that you see out and about your house that she's brought in. It why they paint their toe nails two different colors, or see not just one shade of red or pink, or blue ~ but literally tens if not hundreds. Expressive means being attuned to one's feelings and emotions devoid of reasoning and logic? Expressive means doing things just because you "feel like it!" or it feels right? Expressive means just throwing your head back and enjoying the moment. Men on the other hand tend to be among any and other things considered to be masculine traits? INSTRUMINTIVE They see things as pretty much in bi-polar terms, ~ yes or no, correct or in-correct, black and white, they see things as a logic flow chart. Devoid of feelings, emotions, or the investment of such? Men "Fix" things in a straight linear manner and approach. It is because of this ingrained mentality? The reason your wife is contemplating leaving and divorcing me? For example? In the book "Crazy Time" a book about divorce? A woman was married to a top executive of a major Fortune 500 company. Had been married to him for years upon years? Raised three children or such, put them and got them through their 'schooling' years, and through and past college? She came to once the children had left the nest, and told him she was leaving him and filing for divorced? He was hit with "shock and awe" When he asked why? She walked up behind him and put her hands over his eyes and asked him, "What color and pattern is the wallpaper in the kitchen?" He told her he didn't know? As she walked away and out of his life? She told him, "EXACTALLY!!!"
Gunny376 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 You not in touch with you "feminity" or your "feminine side" And yes we ALL have one, just as women all have a 'masculine side" I'm not advocating weird sexual stuff here? What I an advocating is your placing as much if not more significance to those 'things' that are significant and important to your wife as woman, a wife, a mother, a individual, a human being, a Child of God. I came home this morning to find my front door decorated with "Fourth of July" type things. You can bet you ever-loving sweet azz I going to rave about how much I ~ love it ~ Go into explicit detail about every little detail of it? Ask questions as to where she got it, how much it costs, were there other choices, what a good choice she made, how clever she is, how expressive she is, bet the next door neighbor had thought of it! Bet the next door neighbor is jealous! Mrs Gunny was down the first part of the week? When she told me "Nothing" You bet you bottom last dollar I colverately got to looking for the answers and the solutions? It was the day of the death of her DM? Many years ago! Once I figured it out? I hugged her, was exceptionally overly affectionate, (In a suportative, caring, nuturing way) etc
Gunny376 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 A couple of good books to help you understand this all would be" "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex and Women Don't Get Enough Love!" "Why Men Don't Have A Clue? And Women Need Another Pair of Shoes!"
Author coaches24 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Posted June 1, 2013 Here's my take on this. I complimented my wife all the time for a long while. I didn't get what I wanted from her in return as much as I would have liked and I felt I was 2nd in her prioritys quite a bit. I helped her move her bed ridden mom who has MS down from Seattle to Sacramento with the deal that it was only a couple months until we found her the caregivers she needs and while we actively searched for an apartment for her mom to live fairly close. Our 5th anniversary happened a week and a half after the move and my wife got me a card and that was it. I bought her a glider bench swing (I read that 5th anniversary was wood so I figured it would be a good thing and it was ) that she had been pinning for to sit out on the front porch and had it all put together while she was out to surprise her. I sent her flowers and Sherri's berries at work a hand full of times and I got to the point where I felt I was putting more effort than she was and eventually stopped doing that very often at all. I tried to talk to her about things and promises were always made and not kept. My mistake was that instead of continuing to try and talk to her when things weren't right to me I let it go. Now don't get me wrong, my wife did show me a lot of affection early on and did surprise me with different things from time to time and it was enough I felt loved by her. My wife's own admission is that her way of communicating is to shut down when things go bad and not say anything. I knew this before we got married and was dumb enough to think I could get her to communicate. Looking back she/ we should have done some pre marriage counseling or classes and learned how to communicate together before getting married. Instead what happened was a lot of little things (and some semi big ones) happening and never getting resolved so the resentment on both sides started to build up. One big thing for her that I did was when we had our daughter my wife had a very hard time breast feeding. She just wasn't producing milk. At the time I thought I was being supportive but what I really did was make her feel extremely inadequate. She went to a lactation specialist t first and we had a breast pump to see if that would help but nothing worked and I failed to see just how hard that was on her and at one point got upset at her because I felt she was giving up too easily (the coach in me came out in a bad way at that time). There are other examples on both sides. Nothing either of us ever meant to be hurtful but like I said our communication was the big issue. One thing that has happened this week is we have both communicated alot more than we ever had before in both the MC session and some emails as well. We aren't even close to fixing the issues we are having but for the first time in the last 2 months I see signs in her attitude, behavior, and words that make me think she is open to reconciling and keeping the marriage going. She isn't making me any promises ( which for me is a good thing because I felt she used to do that to get me off her back on things and then would rarely follow through) but she is starting to see my side and acknowledge that it wasn't as bad as she built up in her mind and she has started taking responsibility and even has apologized for the last 2 months and how this is effecting me and our daughter. Seeing as she is starting to see her own faults and mistakes and acknowledge them and agree to try and work on them I am inclined to give her more time. I think her communication style (or lack there of) is deep rooted to her childhood as she has had issues in that regards with all of her family. Her dad, best friend, both brothers and her sister she has issues with all of them that has caused her alot of grief and none of them know about any of it. So I think the issues in those relationships built up along with the issues in our relationship and since I am the one around her all the time when she finally hit her breaking point I became the main focus. I brought up those issues with her this week on one of my emails and she was very receptive to what I said. Her response was a LOT better than I expected as in the past when I would try and get her to tell them her feelings she would get extremely defensive. It was always a sore subject so I was a little worried about how she would react when I sent the email but her response again made me think she is serious about trying to change her own issues. You not in touch with you "feminity" or your "feminine side" And yes we ALL have one, just as women all have a 'masculine side" I'm not advocating weird sexual stuff here? What I an advocating is your placing as much if not more significance to those 'things' that are significant and important to your wife as woman, a wife, a mother, a individual, a human being, a Child of God. I came home this morning to find my front door decorated with "Fourth of July" type things. You can bet you ever-loving sweet azz I going to rave about how much I ~ love it ~ Go into explicit detail about every little detail of it? Ask questions as to where she got it, how much it costs, were there other choices, what a good choice she made, how clever she is, how expressive she is, bet the next door neighbor had thought of it! Bet the next door neighbor is jealous! Mrs Gunny was down the first part of the week? When she told me "Nothing" You bet you bottom last dollar I colverately got to looking for the answers and the solutions? It was the day of the death of her DM? Many years ago! Once I figured it out? I hugged her, was exceptionally overly affectionate, (In a suportative, caring, nuturing way) etc
Steadfast Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 My mistake was that instead of continuing to try and talk to her when things weren't right to me I let it go. No, your mistake was believing it would do any good. I don't know your wife coach, but assuming she's a normal, healthy adult woman she's about three-times smarter and more intuitive than the normal adult male. You say blah-blah-blah and she hears "control-control-control." You can't 'coach up' romance. She knows what you feel, and she knows how her actions (or response, or lack of response) effects you. She knows. The question has to be, does she care? If she's a woman who fell into infatuation and not love, she probably doesn't. At least, not enough to care. Or change. Good communication is important, and no marriage; not even the best of them, escapes the occasional rough patch. I can tell if a person -woman or otherwise- respects me or is interested in what I'm saying 30-seconds into any conversation. That doesn't mean we'll always agree. It means we have enough respect one for the other to listen to what the other is saying. Five years post-divorce, I now have a wonderful girlfriend. I treat her with gifts and little tokens of affection now and then. I notice what she's wearing. I listen to the words she speaks. I take note of when she changes the subject. I do this with no expectation of return, nor do I keep score. I did the same things with my ex, but 1) she didn't appreciate it, 2) I was upset when she didn't reciprocate and 3) I kept on giving even when she didn't deserve it, hoping she somehow would. No wonder she developed 'new found respect' when I told her to kiss my a$$! My instincts betrayed me. You've got your tools out coach and you're coaching your arse off. No one here can tell you anything you don't already know. You know what to do, what to say and what to expect. I proclaim you ready for life sir!! ...or maybe, just maybe, you'll pull your head out long enough to take the good advice written to you. Be smart. Take advantage of it. Believe me when say it is hard earned. Your aren't giving it the respect it deserves. 1
Author coaches24 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 Yea I disagree with you. Giving up is the easy way out. Might work for you but it isn't what I will do. I don't care how bad the situation is you can always make a difference if you keep trying. There is always a chance of that's what you want. You and I are very different in how we deal with things and I feel your way is not for me at all. No, your mistake was believing it would do any good. I don't know your wife coach, but assuming she's a normal, healthy adult woman she's about three-times smarter and more intuitive than the normal adult male. You say blah-blah-blah and she hears "control-control-control." You can't 'coach up' romance. She knows what you feel, and she knows how her actions (or response, or lack of response) effects you. She knows. The question has to be, does she care? If she's a woman who fell into infatuation and not love, she probably doesn't. At least, not enough to care. Or change. Good communication is important, and no marriage; not even the best of them, escapes the occasional rough patch. I can tell if a person -woman or otherwise- respects me or is interested in what I'm saying 30-seconds into any conversation. That doesn't mean we'll always agree. It means we have enough respect one for the other to listen to what the other is saying. Five years post-divorce, I now have a wonderful girlfriend. I treat her with gifts and little tokens of affection now and then. I notice what she's wearing. I listen to the words she speaks. I take note of when she changes the subject. I do this with no expectation of return, nor do I keep score. I did the same things with my ex, but 1) she didn't appreciate it, 2) I was upset when she didn't reciprocate and 3) I kept on giving even when she didn't deserve it, hoping she somehow would. No wonder she developed 'new found respect' when I told her to kiss my a$$! My instincts betrayed me. You've got your tools out coach and you're coaching your arse off. No one here can tell you anything you don't already know. You know what to do, what to say and what to expect. I proclaim you ready for life sir!! ...or maybe, just maybe, you'll pull your head out long enough to take the good advice written to you. Be smart. Take advantage of it. Believe me when say it is hard earned. Your aren't giving it the respect it deserves.
worldgonewrong Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Yea I disagree with you. Giving up is the easy way out. Might work for you but it isn't what I will do. I don't care how bad the situation is you can always make a difference if you keep trying. There is always a chance of that's what you want. You and I are very different in how we deal with things and I feel your way is not for me at all. Nowhere in SteadFast's post did I see anything about 'giving up'. People here are advocating awareness, of all sides of the situation, for you. And p.s. re the part I bolded above: I'm an optimist too, but sometimes a crap situation is out of your control. Period. I'm not saying you're there yet, but the first step toward sanity is sometimes recognizing that you're not going to change a situation or make a difference in it; sometimes the change has to come from the other party involved.
Author coaches24 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 Nowhere in SteadFast's post did I see anything about 'giving up'. People here are advocating awareness, of all sides of the situation, for you. And p.s. re the part I bolded above: I'm an optimist too, but sometimes a crap situation is out of your control. Period. I'm not saying you're there yet, but the first step toward sanity is sometimes recognizing that you're not going to change a situation or make a difference in it; sometimes the change has to come from the other party involved. I understand that and have never said differently. I know Im not there yet and have every reason to keep trying. I know the odds are against me but there is still a chance until divorce papers have been filed and she has said she doesn't want a divorce so I have every reason to keep trying. Im not blind and I do know what's going on and I will decide what actions I take next right or wrong.
stillafool Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Were her pictures date and time stamped? What is a valid reason for any married gal to stay out until 330am? I'd like to know what her explanation included. You skip over things here that might help explain things. Then you assume we all have the wrong idea about your wife. Start communicating with us effectively if you want us to understand why you aren't her doormat. I have to agree with you. It seems she should be spending more time with her little girl instead of spending nights away from home. I'm sorry OP but I think there is another man involved. She may not have slept with him yet but wants space to see where it goes. Also if you want her back stop begging and trying to do things to keep her. Those things will push her away faster. I really don't think divorce is the easy way out. It is easier to stay where you are, keep everything in place and try to make your wife love you again. It is hard to uproot your child, sell your home and start a new life.
2sunny Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 What help do you want if you've already made up your mind?
Author coaches24 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 What help do you want if you've already made up your mind? I never asked for help. I just wanted to vent.
Steadfast Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 I never asked for help. I just wanted to vent. Really? From your first post: Should I try and push marriage counseling? *snip* Do I step back and wait for her to make a decision? *snip* What do I do? *snip* Also from your original post: My biggest fear out of all of this is for my daughter. What if my wife decides she wants a divorce and then wants custody of our daughter and takes her away from me. I feel like I am losing everything that is important to me and I have no where to turn. You're scared and defensive, but it's directed at the wrong people.
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