She never loved me?

[coaches24]

Ok now Im confused. Today is my Bday and my wife and Daughter surprised me this morning with a card and present. My wife got her dad to pay for a season ticket to the Raiders for the upcoming season. A little history is that I was a season ticket holder when we met and I gave them up when we got married to help pay for the wedding. I don't know how to take this. I told her thank you of course but I don't know if she feels guilty for the situation we are in or if she is starting to come around and want to reconcile or if there are other reasons. I just don't know. Now to top it off her birthday is this weekend and I had absolutely nothing planned for her because of where we are right now. Now I feel like I am supposed to do something nice for her? I just wanted to vent a little on here to get this off my chest and help get my mind straight.

[Techie Artist]

I'm glad your W and child surprised you for your BD...happy belated! One thing I'd caution you about is to not read too much into the display. Take the BD gift as just that.

 

Note: she didn't sacrifice to save for your gift. She mooched off her dad.

 

Unless the card had a statement about wanting to reconcile, that's not what the gift means. If you have a gut feeling (or prior knowledge about her) that this is what she means, you must ask directly and accept the direct answer.

 

She may be acting civilly, sincerely, remorsefully, or vengefully. You don't know until you know.

[Sittinginmcds]

Now I may be jaded but as for space & time I'd give her so much space she feels like John Glenn and so much time she thinks she's Big Ben. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

[worldgonewrong]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

Not always.

 

Sometimes it's also 'when the cat's away, the mice will play'.

[tinam]

I don't think so as I went through every part of her I phone and email when this happened and there was not a single trace of anything to suggest cheating. Went through her browser history (which I don't think has ever been cleared from the looks of it), her texts, phone calls, messages etc. If she was cheating I would have found something. But there wasn't a single suspicious thing on her phone.

 

I just wanted to add my two cents on this. Been reading and just shaking my head. I really hope she's not cheating and maybe she's not. But i was completely blindsited to find out my husband was cheating. I always had full access to his phone. Always kept it. I used it all the time to look stuff up he was never sketchy. I have access to his email. Nothing out of the ordinarily. There were no signs at all! Except looking back now the last few weeks him getting to say he was gonna be home late quite often. Didn't think anything of it. He's having an affair with a coworker. She my not need to text or email ect. Talk to them at work. Just don't be blind to it. I sure was.

[coaches24]

I just wanted to add my two cents on this. Been reading and just shaking my head. I really hope she's not cheating and maybe she's not. But i was completely blindsited to find out my husband was cheating. I always had full access to his phone. Always kept it. I used it all the time to look stuff up he was never sketchy. I have access to his email. Nothing out of the ordinarily. There were no signs at all! Except looking back now the last few weeks him getting to say he was gonna be home late quite often. Didn't think anything of it. He's having an affair with a coworker. She my not need to text or email ect. Talk to them at work. Just don't be blind to it. I sure was.

 

For now Im just going to take her at her word she isn't cheating since I can't find any evidence. I've stopped trying to spy as I figure cheating or not with how she says she feels there is no reason to spy. I know for sure she isn't cheating at work because she manages a small office with just 2 other women working with her. I guess it's possible she could be meeting up with someone from another office near by but for now I'm done trying to be the spying husband. She isn't pretending things are good anymore and we are trying marriage counseling next week and will see how it goes.

 

 

She asked me to go out to dinner last night ( us and our daughter) and I did. Our daughter loved it of course but there was no conversation between us. She answers my comments with one word answers mostly. The distance is staggering even when we are right next to each other. Im a teacher and will be off for the summer after next week so I have some trips planned for me and my daughter and will spend the summer doing fun things with her and trying to figure out where to go as far as my marriage is concerned. I figure how my wife reacts to marriage counseling will tell me a lot about what she wants. Im not one to sit around and wait without seeing something to wait for so if we aren't making some kind of progress in the next few months I will likely take that as my answer and start taking steps to move on.

[coaches24]

I'm glad your W and child surprised you for your BD...happy belated! One thing I'd caution you about is to not read too much into the display. Take the BD gift as just that.

 

Note: she didn't sacrifice to save for your gift. She mooched off her dad.

 

Unless the card had a statement about wanting to reconcile, that's not what the gift means. If you have a gut feeling (or prior knowledge about her) that this is what she means, you must ask directly and accept the direct answer.

 

She may be acting civilly, sincerely, remorsefully, or vengefully. You don't know until you know.

 

I agree. It didnt really feel special and was more awkward than anything. I was kind of annoyed she did anything. I would have rather she do something to try and reconcile but Im not going to bash her for this. It doesn't change anything that's going on.

[coaches24]

New update just to vent. I posted about my wife asking me if I wanted to have dinner with her the other day well here is the whole story.

 

Wed morning when I got to work she texted me asking if I wanted to go to red robin that night if our daughter was good at school (we try to reward her with things like going to the park after school, playing games, or going to places she likes to eat at as incentive to do good in pre-school as shes very head strong and stubborn and when she gets in a mood it can get her into trouble at school). I texted back yes that sounds fun and that our daughter will love that since we will all be together. My wife sends another text right after my reply saying " Im going out with "insert friends name here" tomorrow night. Thats all the info she gave me. I know the friend (female friend) and they hang out quite a bit, in fact the friend IMO is part of the problem as she has marriage issues as well and it wasnt until my wife started hanging with her quite a bit that our issues came to light.

 

I didnt reply to her last message I just rolled my eyes and let it be. So we went out to dinner at red robin and it was awkward as always now because she hardly says a word to me at all. I try a little bit to start a conversation just about things going on at work and stuff and still no conversation back from her. I spend the whole dinner wondering why she even invited me if she wasnt going to even try and talk to me.

 

Ok so then Thursday night comes and Im home with our daughter while my wife is out with her friend god knows where. Bed time comes and goes and no word from my wife, not even to call and say good night to our daughter. We fall asleep and a couple hours later I wake up and check and no wife at home yet. I go back to bed and a couple hours later wake up and check and still no wife (its after midnight now). A few hours later at 3:30am I hear her come into the house. I get up and make sure its her. No texts, calls nothing to tell me where she was or why she was out so late (keep in mind she told me early on when our issues came to light that she wouldn't go out late like that anymore).

 

My wife gets up a little after 5am to start getting ready for work and I usually wake up when she comes into the bedroom to go take a shower. I was not happy about her being out that late without letting me know what was going on so I asked her where she was. She told me they had been to a restaurant she likes a lot and then to some place I dont know. She said she had lost her purse and they had to go searching for it as if thats the reason she was out till 3:30 am (and no I dont believe thats the reason for a second, though she likely did lose her purse for a while). After her shower she was sitting in a chair in the bedroom and I told her " I dont want to start anything but you told me you werent going to go out late like that anymore" and I got in the shower. Not a word from her.

 

So yesterday after work I decided I want to address this and I emailed her the following

 

" Can we come up with some ground rules for the immediate future of things we can and cannot do regarding each other? I feel like you are taking me on an emotional roller coaster. It's just how it makes me feel when you ask me to go to dinner one night and then follow it up with news that you are going out the next with Tasha. Thats all the info I get and then you come home at 3:30 am which you told me you would not do. I can give you space and time that you want but you have to be willing to give me things as well. You have agreed to marriage counseling and that's the big thing for me but the mixed signals need to stop (I don't think you mean to give mixed signals so Im not accusing you of anything just pointing out that the state Im in makes it look like mixed signals to me, so Im just trying to help you see things from my point of view).

 

You want to go out with ***** or whoever that's fine just do me the favor of knowing where your going and when you will be home. I can't understand how you feel but in my mind and heart we ARE still married and it kills me when I have no idea where you are when it's the middle of the night. I have no idea if your safe or if something has happened. Try and think back to when you cared about me and put yourself in my shoes. How would you feel if I was out till 3:30 am without knowing where I am and I didn't call to check in or anything.

 

The other thing I ask ( and this I think would be for both of us) is to give advanced notice if we want to go out late. That way when one of us has plans the other knows they have to be with Katie that night or day. I would prefer more than one day notice when possible. And if its a spur of the moment thing then just give me more info so I know what's going on at least a little bit.

 

You may not love me (I dont know that I can believe that right now but those were your words) but I absolutely love you and unless you decide to end our marriage permanently (and even if you do decide that) I would appreciate you communicate things like I described above a little better. It will go a long way to us being able to keep things civil ( at least for me it would) and not build up more resentment toward each other.

 

I am more than willing to listen to anything you might need from me to make things better as well.

 

Your husband"

 

I know she has read the email but she has not responded in person or email. She told me today she is going down to her dads (a little over an hour away) and I told her she should take our daughter. She got a look like she didnt really want to but agreed to do it anyway so I can have some me time.

 

Anyway thats the latest of whats going on with me and I wanted to vent. This Thursday we have an appointment for our first marriage counseling session. Should be an interesting experience to say the least. My expectations are low but I still hold out hope even though its likely by the tiniest of threads.

[Darren Steez]

Your wife is not confused. You are

 

You wanted to stay and fix things..even though there is nothing to fix. Read this thread and all I see is a man with his head in the sand doing nothing.

 

Your wife detached a very long time ago and is not staying with you because she loves you rather because it suits her for the moment.

 

She already told you she didn't love you. What exactly are you doing?

[trippi1432]

Coaches - I just was going through your thread and I have to tell you how sorry I am for what you and your daughter are going through.

 

I think you have already nailed the biggest issue with the two quotes below:

 

She has been very good at hiding her feelings and now I see this is a big pattern for her. When she and I first started dating she had issues like this with her close friends and family. Her dad had just started dating her best friends mom which she thought was great but then when we were alone would always complain about how her best friend would get all kinds of things from her mom and she wouldn't get anything. She would complain about her dad not being active in her life enough (in truth he has been active since I have known him and has helped her with everything she has asked him to, and apparently did quite a bit for her before I came into the picture as well like paying off her very large credit card debt before we met, picking her up when she broke up with her ex BF in Texas and driving her back to Ca etc).

She made it seem like they were all mistreating her but she would act like they were great when with them and then cry with me when we left because of things being said or done that hurt her feelings ( before our daughter was born).

 

 

I know the friend (female friend) and they hang out quite a bit, in fact the friend IMO is part of the problem as she has marriage issues as well and it wasnt until my wife started hanging with her quite a bit that our issues came to light.

 

It's very obvious that your wife "chooses" to be unhappy and sees slights towards her in a lot of close relationships. Given that dynamic of her personality and hanging out with her friend who is going through mental abuse, well not surprising that this came around to you being the new source to feed her internal unhappiness.

 

The email you sent, I feel it was very well stated. I have a theory on how that is going to be perceived. She should perceive it as an honest request and respect what you have asked. However, if it comes back as you being controlling and manipulative, do not be surprised or think that it is you.

 

I do think that you need to bring up those two insights you have had in MC...or at least understand that dynamic. One so you can help yourself get through this and two, if your wife could understand what her issue really is, she might be able to help herself.

 

Good luck.

[coaches24]

Your wife is not confused. You are

 

You wanted to stay and fix things..even though there is nothing to fix. Read this thread and all I see is a man with his head in the sand doing nothing.

 

Your wife detached a very long time ago and is not staying with you because she loves you rather because it suits her for the moment.

 

She already told you she didn't love you. What exactly are you doing?

 

Well maybe I do have my head in the sand but that's how it is then. Im not ready to just walk away from 9 years that I know were good despite what she says now. She may very well not love me anymore but I am convinced the part of her being confused is absolutely true. I also know there has to be more to the story than she is telling me, I just haven't figured out what. For now I won't give up on my marriage no matter how hopeless it looks ( and it looks hopeless to me as well). But I also know myself and I won't be able to live with myself until I am satisfied that I have done everything to save the marriage ( even if there is no chance at all I cannot just walk away without trying, I do not believe in "can't").

 

At the same time I am prepared to move on without her if that's what SHE decides will happen.

[coaches24]

Coaches - I just was going through your thread and I have to tell you how sorry I am for what you and your daughter are going through.

 

I think you have already nailed the biggest issue with the two quotes below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's very obvious that your wife "chooses" to be unhappy and sees slights towards her in a lot of close relationships. Given that dynamic of her personality and hanging out with her friend who is going through mental abuse, well not surprising that this came around to you being the new source to feed her internal unhappiness.

 

The email you sent, I feel it was very well stated. I have a theory on how that is going to be perceived. She should perceive it as an honest request and respect what you have asked. However, if it comes back as you being controlling and manipulative, do not be surprised or think that it is you.

 

I do think that you need to bring up those two insights you have had in MC...or at least understand that dynamic. One so you can help yourself get through this and two, if your wife could understand what her issue really is, she might be able to help herself.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you and I agree with all of this. I do plan on opening up with everything in MC and see what comes of it.

[Steadfast]

Well maybe I do have my head in the sand but that's how it is then. Im not ready to just walk away from 9 years that I know were good despite what she says now. She may very well not love me anymore but I am convinced the part of her being confused is absolutely true..**SNIP** At the same time I am prepared to move on without her if that's what SHE decides will happen.

 

Just as long as you understand that you're now the problem coach. You've become your own worst enemy. You are admitting you have your head in the sand, you fear misplaced guilt, and have taken a self-proclaimed oath to make her decide. You'll be absolved. Then you can move on.

 

Thing is, she already has. By your wording, she's told you several times. You aren't hearing it because you don't want to. You are dealing with a woman that won't take a firm stand on anything, yet a firm stand is what you demand from her to allow you to move on. That's a bad play coach.

 

You're relying on your instincts, and your instincts are betraying you. Your desire to push the issue is only pushing her away. Making things worse.

 

How do I know this? And the others who have posted here? Take a guess.

 

Oh, by the way? She is cheating. I'd wager on it. I do agree with you not spying however. You don't want to know. Trust me. Besides, the truth of the matter is displayed in her actions; not her words. They are worthless.

 

This will end when you've had enough. Hard to say when that might be. There has been a linage of stubborn 'clingers' on this board that suffered more and for much longer by resisting the obvious in the name of valor.

 

Presently, you are displaying none. All that's happening is you are getting walked on. You're devoted to an empty marriage. No honor in that.

[coaches24]

You might very well be right with everything you say. I still know that the only way I can move on and be happy is to run this to its full course and know for sure. I know I will regret it if I don't and I know there is no chance that I will regret anything if I do. Basically I have nothing to lose if I try and save my marriage. If it can't be saved then its list already. I have everything to gain by trying to save it however and I owe that to myself and my daughter. Your right at some point I will get tired of the situation if it keeps going like it is and decide its not worth fighting for but for now I feel it's very much worth fighting for.

 

 

Just as long as you understand that you're now the problem coach. You've become your own worst enemy. You are admitting you have your head in the sand, you fear misplaced guilt, and have taken a self-proclaimed oath to make her decide. You'll be absolved. Then you can move on.

 

Thing is, she already has. By your wording, she's told you several times. You aren't hearing it because you don't want to. You are dealing with a woman that won't take a firm stand on anything, yet a firm stand is what you demand from her to allow you to move on. That's a bad play coach.

 

You're relying on your instincts, and your instincts are betraying you. Your desire to push the issue is only pushing her away. Making things worse.

 

How do I know this? And the others who have posted here? Take a guess.

 

Oh, by the way? She is cheating. I'd wager on it. I do agree with you not spying however. You don't want to know. Trust me. Besides, the truth of the matter is displayed in her actions; not her words. They are worthless.

 

This will end when you've had enough. Hard to say when that might be. There has been a linage of stubborn 'clingers' on this board that suffered more and for much longer by resisting the obvious in the name of valor.

 

Presently, you are displaying none. All that's happening is you are getting walked on. You're devoted to an empty marriage. No honor in that.

[Steadfast]

...but for now I feel it's very much worth fighting for.

 

Ask yourself who the battle is against. What or who are you fighting? Do you really think you can love enough for the both of you? You're doing that now and it's breaking your heart. The heart doesn't work that way.

 

It's 'pinging' her and getting no response. So it pings over and over and...

 

For what it's worth, I did the same thing. For the same reasons. We had four kids and seventeen years together. If someone would have told me what I'm telling you, I can honestly say that my answer would be the same as yours. I get it. I also know it was fear, not love, keeping me from doing what I knew I should. I was afraid of my future, and I didn't want to lose.

 

I look back now and see so much I couldn't see then. Hang in there coach. Keep posting and working through the process. You have friends here.

[coaches24]

just got done with our first MC appointment and while I am still trying to process everything and all the emotions are still heightened right now I left feeling more encouraged than I have in the last 2 months. My wife seemed to like how it went as well and appeared open to going back and continuing. She took our daughter out to do their nails so we haven't talked yet about another appointment. I know we are just getting started and that we have a very very long way to go but I feel like there is hope now with what was said on all sides in the session. The MC is very good and I am very impressed with how she runs the sessions.

 

Don't know where this will lead or if it will make a difference in the end but I feel encouraged for now.

 

Im still on the verge of crying right now thinking about all that was talked about but it's a different kind of break down. I don't feel hopeless at the moment and for now that is a priceless feeling.

[ReelAhdvice]

I dont think she is cheating. I believe you should do whatever you can to save the marriage. Especially since there is no emotional or financial benefit for the marriage to be over.

 

I think, now is the time, for you to date her again, make her fall in love again.

 

Also know when to cut your losses, when a women says she wants space, it means, she wants someone else to fill her space (vjay). Now dont go and ask her if she wants that, she would say no, but at least you know what she is thinking.

 

Also, take charge, in wanting to make the relationship work.

[coaches24]

I dont think she is cheating. I believe you should do whatever you can to save the marriage. Especially since there is no emotional or financial benefit for the marriage to be over.

 

I think, now is the time, for you to date her again, make her fall in love again.

 

Also know when to cut your losses, when a women says she wants space, it means, she wants someone else to fill her space (vjay). Now dont go and ask her if she wants that, she would say no, but at least you know what she is thinking.

 

Also, take charge, in wanting to make the relationship work.

 

Thanks I agree about trying to save the marriage. And I do very much want to start "dating" her again but not sure she wants that just yet. One of her issues is that she started working out and lost a LOT of weight this past year. We talked early on about trying to make changes together and do things together in this regard but neither of us ever really took it past the saying we should do it stage. So I think what I am going to do is start working on myself physically and see if that doesn't make a difference for her. I exercise some but my eating habits aren't very good (damn Chipotle). I'm off for the summer after tomorrow so I am going to start making exercise part of my daily routine and make a conscious effort to eat better and see how things go. That along with continuing MC and doing what comes along with that is where I want to start. I have lost 20 LBs this year but I need to lose another 50 I think. Im 30 LBs heavier now than when we first met. Atleast if I start making these changes they will benefit me regardless of any decisions she makes regarding our marriage.

[2sunny]

I can't understand why you think a wife stays out until 3:30am.

 

You are too nice - too understanding. You have every right to be flaming mad that she's not acting married - and she's not "investing" her energy in the M!

 

And your email sounds like you're scared of your wife - what's that about?

 

I hope the counselor can help - but it won't when your wife doesn't participate with honesty.

 

She acts selfish - doesn't want to make effort (even for weddings) if it takes her time. She's got time to party. I think her evening included a man.

 

Your W doesn't respect you. You need IC to learn to take the lead - and be the MAN that takes charge of your life.

 

Your allowing your Wtolead you around by a leash like a dog. You ask her questions instead of stating sentences that should be commanding.

 

Man up dude. She's treating you as her doormat.

[2sunny]

Your comments in bold. A man who demands respects chooses words listed not in bold.

 

" Can we come up with some ground rules for the immediate future of things we can and cannot do regarding each other?

 

 

Your behavior is unacceptable for a married woman. Grounds rules include not going out with single friends. And I expect you to be home by 10pm - which is a reasonable hour.

 

I feel like you are taking me on an emotional roller coaster. It's just how it makes me feel when you ask me to go to dinner one night and then follow it up with news that you are going out the next with Tasha.

 

Your friendship with Tasha is toxic to our M - if she takes priority over me - I'm divorcing you.

 

Thats all the info I get and then you come home at 3:30 am which you told me you would not do.

 

You are a liar! You are single handedly ruining our M and our family! If you don't wish to make changes then get out now!

 

I can give you space and time that you want but you have to be willing to give me things as well.

 

I'll I've you space- your bag is packed - leave now!

 

Side note - you sound weak and pathetic in this statement. Take a firm stand!

 

You have agreed to marriage counseling and that's the big thing for me but the mixed signals need to stop (I don't think you mean to give mixed signals so Im not accusing you of anything just pointing out that the state Im in makes it look like mixed signals to me, so Im just trying to help you see things from my point of view).

 

She doesn't care about your point of view. Her actions show that! And stop dancing around the douche she's being! She's acting like a tramp! 3:30 in the f-ing morning? That's completely unreasonable!

 

Who cares if you hurt her feelings! She's not begin worried about hurting YOUR feelings! She was probably f-ing some dude until 3:30am and you're acting afraid to call her on her crappy behavior!

 

 

Tell her IF she intends to be married - to act like it! To invest in communicating with you! To spend time alone getting connected to YOU! To make YOU her first priority!

 

And if he's not willing to do that and more - to get out now!

 

In your other thread - you stated she is seeing an individual counselor and wanted a separation. Now it just looks like your desperate and begging - meanwhile she's acting single without being honest up front ( same pattern as bailing on her responsibility in that wedding).

 

Why do you think it's a great idea to stay with such a selfish, self centered and disrespectful woman when she intends to separate?

Edited May 31, 2013 by 2sunny

[Steadfast]

I dont think she is cheating.

 

And just what do you think she's doing until 3.30 in the morning? I promise it isn't Lunar photography.

 

I think, now is the time, for you to date her again, make her fall in love again.

 

That always works. Plant that right next to the money tree and see what starts producing first. Coach didn't make her fall in love with him to begin with, why do you suspect it could, would or should work now? We don't control what others feel, we either harmonize, or we don't. Simple as that.

 

Coach, I know you feel you made progress, but the truth is all you've done is prolong your suffering and limbo. If the MC was her idea, if she was the one that really wanted you to get closer and was the motivation behind working on your relationship, then it'd be different. As it is? She simply has more time to work her deal to the end. It's not helping. It's worse.

 

Your comments about weight loss and physical attraction seal the deal in my opinion. Physical attraction and healthy living are very important, but they do not sustain relationships. What if disease or illness entered the picture?

 

I'm wondering if either one of you know what love truly is.

[worldgonewrong]

I empathize with Coach because I see myself in him -- the first throes of the disintegration, the denial, the 'maybe if I lose weight and get sculpted, she'll be interested in me again' attitude, the absolute fear of the future, and not wanting to see the Big Picture (i.e. her most likely cheating) because it's too much to take.

 

My only advice to Coach: face everything head-on. Now. If you do, you'll save yourself LOTS of lost precious time. If I could do it over again, I would've done things completely differently.

[LIFE.GOES.wrONg]

I empathize with Coach because I see myself in him -- the first throes of the disintegration, the denial, the 'maybe if I lose weight and get sculpted, she'll be interested in me again' attitude, the absolute fear of the future, and not wanting to see the Big Picture (i.e. her most likely cheating) because it's too much to take.

 

My only advice to Coach: face everything head-on. Now. If you do, you'll save yourself LOTS of lost precious time. If I could do it over again, I would've done things completely differently.

 

 

WGW, I would *love* to read a post where you describe what you would have done differently.

[worldgonewrong]

WGW, I would *love* to read a post where you describe what you would have done differently.

 

I'll keep it brief here (with respect to the OP):

1. I would've not sunk in denial about her affair;

2. I would've packed her bags and set them on the front porch, rather than me moving out;

3. I would've told all & sundry about what she was doing, including her mother.

4. I would've sat back & enjoyed the modest luxury of the home/neighborhood that I'd worked so hard to get to, without enabling her in any way.

There. (Hindsight is, of course, 20/20. )

Edited May 31, 2013 by worldgonewrong

[2sunny]

Find some inner strength and courage to take action.

 

Stop giving your wife free reign to act single!

 

If she intends to operate on her own - divorce her.