fanou22 Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I had finally made up my mind to break up with MM. I saw him on Friday and gave him the news of my decision. Since I had previously discussed the issue with him. He is not pressing me to go back (For those of you who have not read my posts, you know I tried a break up previously). He is respecting my wishes. We agreed to stay friends. For those of you wondering how I did it; I slowly worked myself into emotional detachment. It was not easy but I am not feeling hurt. I may have lost a lover and hope to have gained a true friend.
sinner Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 We agreed to stay friends Five seemingly innocuous words--each one packed with explosive meaning. Life has a way way of subverting our best intentions --especially when we're trying to crawl out from under the emotional rubble of a collapsed affair. Ongoing "friendship" with an ex-affair partner is simply an attempt to continue the affair by other means. You both will have an emotional affair, now. You'll share the memories of good times, and bad, all-the-while-lamenting what might have been. Plus, there will be no more great affair sex. Nevertheless, you'll remained bonded to one another and your residual affectional ties will just be strong enough to prevent your MM from truly going back to his wife and you from finding someone who is available in every sense of the word. The affair will continue to haunt both your lives as your "friendship" continues to energize or feed the affair. Post-affair emotional affairs are the pits: part nostalgia, part memories, part longing and all disruption to the return of a balanced emotional and affectional life. Both you and your MM remain in that affair "bell jar"--cut-off from others and your own real needs. "Friendship" is just another word for a mutated affair.
whichwayisup Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I totally get that...But always remember some people can do that. It depends on how you look it at. Some can be a wonderful thing, like a bestfriend scenerio. It's different with everyone, maybe it's something that could always work out, never know. I don't disagree with anything you've said either sinner. But mind control can do alot, and it could turn out to be a good thing! I'm sure most will completely disagree with me now.....
tiki Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Congrats on the big step. May you one day find someone that truly deserves you!
Author fanou22 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Sinner, I have always maintained some kind of friendship with guys that I have dated before. I don't see the reason why I would not be able to do it now with xMM. Friendship is different for each one of us. For me, the friendships arising post relationship mean staying somehow in contact. I would hang out occasionally but not on a regular basis. That is what I mean by friendship with xMM. I have read a lot of posts where people go no contact and they go through the stages of hurt and anger. The difference is I am not hurt nor angry. When I think about him, I simply feel a little heart squeeze. Why? because this time I wanted to end it instead of having to end it. This is where I agree with whichwayisup. Mind Control. Last week I came to the conclusion that I need to change my life. I started reading a couple of self help books on how to get my life in control. Hence my decision to end the affair. Tiki, thank you for the congrats.
sinner Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 fanou, do you believe your xMM is capable of asserting the same Zen Mastery over his emotions as you? Or, as the dumpee, will your xMM be more vulnerable, dependent, desperate, resentful than you? Will he react erratically as the woman of his dreams withdraws emotionally, sexually and romantically from his life? The gift of Mind Control, like breast and penis size, is not evenly distributed throughout the population. Endings are almost never clean. On the other hand, if it's truly a mutual let bygones-be-bygones, I say go for it. Just bear in mind that your dumped xMM, because of his fragile emotional state may read signs (and experience) things differently than you. Hope and Eros die hard, especially when intertwined. Finally, will your continued presence in his life as "friend" delay your xMM's emotional return to his wife and family? Will he be left dangling in some twilight world-neither husband nor lover? And will his wife continue to wait indefinitely for him to "come home" in the true meaning of that expression? Can he ever truly "come home" to his marriage so long as you both remain "friends"? Time will tell. Good luck.
Author fanou22 Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Originally posted by sinner fanou, do you believe your xMM is capable of asserting the same Zen Mastery over his emotions as you? Or, as the dumpee, will your xMM be more vulnerable, dependent, desperate, resentful than you? Will he react erratically as the woman of his dreams withdraws emotionally, sexually and romantically from his life? From what I know from him, he will be able to master his emotions externally. Are you saying he would be more vulnerable.......because I ended it? I know he would have preferred the ending to be because of a job move or someone else. You are raising doubts in my mind about his state of mind. The gift of Mind Control, like breast and penis size, is not evenly distributed throughout the population. Endings are almost never clean. Could you be more specific about endings' cleanliness? On the other hand, if it's truly a mutual let bygones-be-bygones, I say go for it. Just bear in mind that your dumped xMM, because of his fragile emotional state may read signs (and experience) things differently than you. Hope and Eros die hard, especially when intertwined. I totally understand the risk associated with such a friendship. I will add at the end the e-mail he sent me last night. Finally, will your continued presence in his life as "friend" delay your xMM's emotional return to his wife and family? Will he be left dangling in some twilight world-neither husband nor lover? And will his wife continue to wait indefinitely for him to "come home" in the true meaning of that expression? Can he ever truly "come home" to his marriage so long as you both remain "friends"? Time will tell. Good luck. Asked and answered. I am not residing in his mind to know whether I am keeping him from being truly happy with his wife. He was not when he seeked our affair. Would he be satisfied now? I cannot answer that question he would. I may e-mail him you comments Finally, here is a copy of the e-mail he sent. Sinner, I appreciate your thoughts on it. The last few months have been incredible with you as my lover. The intense chemistry that we had was something I had never experienced before and I will never forget. You are an incredibly beautiful and intelligent woman and I have truly been honored to have you as my lover. And what an incredible lover you are! I am jealous of the lucky man who eventually wins your heart. I think that I am going through ****** (my name was there)-withdrawls as I have been having very intense dreams about making love to you. No doubt I will have such dreams for the rest of my life. Regardless of what happens in my life, and whether I take another lover, there will always be a special place in my heart for you my sexy goddess. In the back of my mind I do hope that one day I can again feel your naked body against mine, but if I never do again I do hope that we can remain friends. I am curious to see the wonderous paths your life is bound to take you. Whether here in America or overseas I sincerely hope that our paths cross again. I will always love you
Grinning Maniac Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 *reads email* ...You've got to be kidding me. You're going to try remaining friends with this guy? I almost said "eh, it might work" until I read that email. You're insane, right? Please tell me that's the answer. Do sane people really not see gaps in logic that big? Oh wow, this guy('s penis) isn't carrying a torch for you at all. CLEARLY, the best thing for both of your lives is to stay as emotionally close as possible. *hits you with a rolled up newspaper* NO. Nnnno. If the "friendship" continues, the affair will restart again at some point. Someone will slip up. I can almost guarentee it.
Mr Spock Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I'd hit you with the phone book myself. Fanou, you don't have a lot of self control with this man. First of all, you allow him to sleep with you without a condom KNOWING full well you've got an STD. And that his wife and the baby are at risk of contracting it. What makes you think you're going to be able to withstand him begging and pleading? Remaining "friends" is different than swearing a bloodvow to kill each other's first born. Remaining "friends" is a reason to shack up later. Couldn't you both agree just to "Not hate each other" and never contact each other again?
Naive Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 From what I read it's not an emotional connection that you had/have with this guy, it's all physical. If you remain "friends" with him he will drag you back into the same s*itty routine.
sinner Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 The e-mail was scorching. You have no chance of remaining "just friends" with this guy. You blew his mind as a lover and you have him by the balls and heart. He's not going anywhere and his brave, magnanimous front will collapse when he learns that you're playing with other guys. The jealously will cause him to detonate. Post-affair friendship operates as a property claim on each other's heart. It's like hedging one's bets because only 1 foot is out the door. Friendship means never having to say final farewells. The outlaw emotional connection remains in the guise of "innocent" friendship. Friendship, in the context of a slowly unraveling affair, is never innocent. As for my "clean" comment, I simply meant that most people don't extricate themselves from messy affairs in one fell swoop. Instead, it's one step forward, two steps backwards. It's akin to unraveling a very complicated knot in poor light while in a state of extreme emotional instability. Breaking up is very hard to do...
StillHurtin Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 My H also had an A w/ a co-worker and wanted to remain friends at work w/ her after the A was over and he wanted me and our kids back in his life. When he broke it off w/ the OW he told her that he wanted to remain friends. I told him NO WAY in he!! he can be friends w/ her, even through work. I didn't even like that they still worked 2gether (we were seperated 90 miles apart). If he couldn't let the friendship go, then I wasn't going to give him a second chance. He broke all contacts w/ her. In fact, she found a nasty way of getting him fired from his job shortly after he ended the A. He was her supervisor and currently he has a lawsuit against the company. I agree, you need to break all contacts w/ the mm if you want to get over him and both of you get on w/ your lives. I can see another A if you remain friends w/ this man. GL!
lioness Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 Hmmm... I too broke off an affair with the "let's just be friends" thing. It worked for a couple of weeks. Tonight we were a kissin' and a huggin' after work. Bets are on he's coming over to my house for "lunch" on Wednesday. When we broke it off, I truly wanted to be done. But we continued with "friendship" which was, as Sinner said, merely a mutated affair. We were definitely still having an emotional affair. So here I am - back at square one. Starting it with him again! Best of luck with this fanou - I don't recommend staying friends with him at all. This is different than regular ex-bf's. MM are different. So it may work out for you to remain friends with your other ex-bf's, but this guy you need to let go. You both need to let go for it to work.
Author fanou22 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Posted September 21, 2004 Grinningmaniac, I think my sanity became questionable the minute I started an affair with a MM. I knew he was married when I met him and when we started having an affair. What started as physical relationship brought with it some feelings. I knew it was more a physical affair than an emotional one. Mr Spock, What makes me think that I would withstand his pleading? Because he promised not do so. I know I would not go back with him. The last time I did go back because I was still working with him. I saw him every single day. I no longer work with him so this is one less variable in the equation. You also have to remember it all stems from wanting not having. I may not have worded my friendship right but what it means to me is the occasional and holidays e-mails. Lioness, Letting go starts within oneself. This is how I feel. There is no pain of loss. When the breakup is the result of anger then you are not really letting go. My decision did not come from anger but from a desire to righten my life. I am working on other issues also. He was not the main one. The only way I would see xMM again is if he comes knocking on my door. The chances of me running into him are practically non existent.
Mr Spock Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 Good Fanou-I think you deserve more than what he gives you. I hope you are able to keep this up.
ChloeChloe Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Fanou I am dealing with an extremely similar situation and I have to agree with everyone else-complete distance is the answer. My MM and I have tried the friendship thing repeatedly and we have always slipped up. I liked what someone said about it being a "mutated affair" because the feelings/connections are very much still there on an emotional level. It is tough because he keeps insisting we can be friends too. I'm not emotionally distant yet either, but I am feeling more motivated to be now for several reasons. 1 is that he was on vacation for 2 weeks and my mood was considerably happier, yet after I saw him yesterday I bawled. Another thing that helps is to just get MAD about it-We really are behaving as sex therapists for their marriages so they can remain intact. When I think about this role I have been playing, it really pisses me off! Finally, I am finding hanging out with him and not having that extra fun sex part just feels weird. I feel extremely uncomfortable and awkward. It's no fun without the sex! Also, when we have been in a "friend" period he felt like he could talk to me about his wife. You can imagine how fun that was for me! I think it might be possible for you to be friends-someday. But like any other breakup there has to be complete distance for a while until you are both disengaged emotionally, and this could potentially take a long time. Especially for him, he sounds really attached!! If you do care about him you will let him go so he can get his life back on track. As far as dealing with the lonely place in your heart, I'd recommend picking up some other activities and STAY BUSY all the time!! Only time can make the feelings go away.
sinner Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 We really are behaving as sex therapists for their marriages so they can remain intact. When I think about this role I have been playing, it really pisses me off! Finally, I am finding hanging out with him and not having that extra fun sex part just feels weird. I feel extremely uncomfortable and awkward. It's no fun without the sex! Post-affair entanglements are all pain, no gain. The relationship morphs into a shambling zombie that cannot be killed, while all pleasure, zest and fun are drained out. Ex affair partners remain emotionally imprisoned by the affair--they call this prison "friendship"--but the relationship ceases to breathe, grow and develop. Memories of pleasure, not new pleasure, are all that remain. Sometimes, wisdom is knowing when to say final good-byes, and mean it.
Karlise13 Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Your posts are just some of the best I've seen on LS.
ChloeChloe Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Sinner you really have a way with words- a "shambling zombie!" Talk about right! It is imprisoning, especially when you are the one who feels that much more attached than the other person. Then there is hurt, disappointment due to pre-conceived expectations, and a general sadness about the whole thing. I guess I can go off and be sad alone about it rather than seeing him and being awkward too... I do find getting MAD helps me stay away as well. If for nothing else, than to punish him on some level-by completely removing myself from him life because I know that will hurt him. Childish, yes, but I have to employe whatever techniques are necessary!
izzybelle Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 i agree and disagree with being able to be friends. i agree that in most cases, like the one i'm in the middle of accepting has ended, it may very well be impossible. we were friends first and i hope we can get that back but as time goes on...i'm not hopeful. with my other involvement with an MM it has worked, not perfectly, but it's worked. our paths cross a lot and maintaining that friendship or at least the ability to be around each other was necessary. although i still find him attractive, i am no longer attracted to him, or at least i don't have the desire to rip his clothes off any more!!!! we hang out together, we party together. funny thing is that there are times when he'll ask a question in front of a group that i know he knows the answer to.... like what i wear when i sleep. and i feel like we still have this ability to have our own private jokes but that's it and i know it's just for fun. in some ways i feel like i've gotten to know a different side of him since we ended and i know that we can only be friends. we'd drive each other crazy if we ever tried to have a real relationship. so some can morph into a friendship because i think we realized we were better friends than lovers!!
sinner Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Thanks for the kind words. This post-affair "affair" issue is one that is very close to my heart. After dawdling for months, I finally insisted to my ex-MW that all contact must cease if I'm to have any chance of returning to my marriage. The jury is still out on a host of issues, but I can say this: I'm a much happier husband and father with my ex-MW going silent. Now, at least , I have a fighting chance to return home. The havoc we wreak...
ChloeChloe Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 good point Izzy, not all relationships are the same. There is a part of me that hopes we can be friends, one day, because I do think he is a terrific person. But it will definitely have to be after a long period of distance.
izzybelle Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 i hope to remain fiends with my recently exMM but i really am doubtful that it will work. in spite of the fact that i still love him very, very much, i really think i could make that transition. i care about him too much to cut him completely out of my life. i do however think that he'll hit the point that sinner did. i know i'm capable of just being friends with him, but i think he's going to need me to be silent. and honestly, that breaks my heart more than him telling me that it was over! i know he's not mine, and never really was but he's been my friend for a lot longer than he was my MM and it hurts more than he'll ever know that that has been destroyed. i'd still love to my relationship with him, as wrong as it may have been back, but as great as the sex was (and it was!!!!) i can find that elsewhere, the friendship was special.
kkat Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 Fanou, I haven't followed all the details but it seems like you've spent alot of time, energy and emotion on LS and I would imagine elsewhere to get to the point to end things with the MM. Congratulations! But, I've been in your place, several times over the past year! The excuse I made to stay in the affair was saying/thinking I could be "friends" with him. I'm thinking that perhaps if it were so easy, you would have broken things off with him long ago, painlessly. You worked hard to get to this point, and it is hard enough to get there, and stay there, without ongoing temptation, memories, etc. By staying connected with him, you're just increasing the chances you'll stay emotionally linked to him. Please, at least reconsider the "staying friends" thing with this guy. By the way, I felt like he was channeling Barry White in his email to you. Steaming.
ChloeChloe Posted September 23, 2004 Posted September 23, 2004 You know what I worry about, Izzy? That the sex WON"T be as good in a normal relationship. My husband and i's sexlife was extremely hum-drum, and I really got off on the excitement of the affair sex. I find myself worried that I won't be able to find that excitement in a "normal" relationship. The good news is that I do not see myself getting involved with a married man now that I am divorced, but I sure hope I can get that excitement with someone else in the future in a legitimate relationship!
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