Girls making it harder on themselves....

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Do you see how much more reasonable and fair and intelligent you sound here compared to your other posts? See, you (and quite a few other men in this thread) should embrace the fact that if you come across acting like a pig, a lot of the women here are going to feel zero sympathy for you, label you a moron, and then jump down your throat. Whereas if you drop the ridiculous exaggerations, silly PUA language, and leave all that ego at the door, you might actually get us ladies to engage you in a respectful way.

 

I think younger women can be immature because they get a lot of BS thrown at them, too. You know how everything you hear now about attracting women is nonsense like "Be confident" "Don't be a lapdog" "Show a woman you have value!"??

 

Well, women get "Be mysterious!" "Make him think you're a catch!" "Men are hunters, they only like the chase!"

 

It's all nonsense. It really is. But while you're critiquing the women for listening to the nonsense they've have jammed down their throats since they were old enough to be plopped down in front of a disney movie, recognize that you are buying the same nonsense society prepackaged for you males.

 

I think both sexes need to display a little bit more empathy towards each other. You know what I love? When male or female has the balls to just be like, "Let's drop this charade and start treating each other like NORMAL PEOPLE and not opponents in a chess game!"

 

Instead, we get members of both sexes saying, "Don't play ME! I'll play YOU!"

 

Also, please don't ever use the word 'bang' to describe sex again. It's so....classless and immature. Real men don't use silly little 13 year old terminology to describe something so innately awesome.

 

So being confident doesn't attract women?

 

Ummmmm.......what?

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

No. You are. WTF does "establish" mean? Is this a PUA term?

 

"Establish" isn't a PUA term lol.

 

I think he meant "establish a connection/interest, then pull back." I think he just used the word in the wrong context.

[TheBigQuestion]

To the women around here...YES! You should be planning out your proposal and what type of diamond you plan on buying her before those panties even hit your floor. Otherwise you're a "player"; "misogynist"; "woman hater"; "user" "*******"; "narcissist"; "low quality man". Did I miss any ladies? Kimberlydoll? Red Robin? pbjbear? I've been called all of those in the past 24-48 hours but I know there's a few I've left out.

 

Don't acknowledge them. Petulant behavior eventually ceases when people fail to pay mind to it.

[TheBigQuestion]

Now now. Pay no mind to the screeching children. If you ignore them long enough, they'll be forced to start their own threads where they can form one giant echo chamber.

 

Going back to the OP. Despite the massive and blatant derailments this thread has gone through, I think that OP's concerns have more or less been adequately addressed. My personal advice is to do your own thing and to do your best to emotionally detach yourself from outcomes involving women you barely know without being cruel or manipulative. Sure, it can be frustrating to deal with flakiness, but if you're good at attracting a good number of women in a short period of time, you should eventually get to the point where women flaking out on you should just roll off your back. Flakiness is a pervasive social disease nowadays, so much so that (in my experience) it has even infected women who are otherwise "quality."

[TheBigQuestion]

And you're an attractive girl from what I remember of your avatar. I don't know what guy did what to you in your past, but we've all been hurt. It can be your cross to bear or you can throw it down and move onward. You're too young to be so angry at our entire gender. At least wait till your 30's for that

 

I've never read a single PUA guide/book whatever. I find it really lame.

 

 

BTW: I think we'd make a great couple.

 

Word of advice, since you've only been posting here for one month (unless you're an old-timer with a new handle): No one here actually knows what a "PUA" is. In LoveShack land, PUA is a slur used to describe any guy who has a level of control over his sex life that the average woman has.

[Estate]

I just turned 25. I get asked out on dates, get called hot and have people ask if Im single all the time. I get called a "nice girl" all the time in real life. Im not bragging, I dont generally give a crap and dating is not a focus in my life right now at all. Im not aging and bitter from lack of attention from men like you say. Funny how you just brought looks and age into the equation and assumed that though...your posts never surprise me. Typical PUA answer

 

This site is a case study into the minds of misogynists who convince themselves they arent.

 

Guys who are bad with girls are lame.

Guys who are good with girls are all PUAs...

 

What's left?

[Estate]

Guys who are good with girls who arent PUAs.

 

Guys who are bad with girls who arent PUAs.

 

The strongest love of my life didnt use PUA. He was good with me.

 

I get the frustration though.

 

But you call every guy on here who is good with girls a PUA.

So by that logic if a guy gets girls easily he must be a PUA.

 

Pretty difficult outlook on life to ever be happy.... "Oh, this guy is realy cool and smooth, I like him... wait, no He's done this before.... PUA...PUA...PUA...AWAY!"

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

But you call every guy on here who is good with girls a PUA.

So by that logic if a guy gets girls easily he must be a PUA.

 

Pretty difficult outlook on life to ever be happy.... "Oh, this guy is realy cool and smooth, I like him... wait, no He's done this before.... PUA...PUA...PUA...AWAY!"

 

It's simple. She hates men (a misandrist, as they say) and she projects that onto all of us.

 

If you've seen her posts, this much would be obvious to you. There are a few women on this forum that are like that.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Just an idea..stop dating GIRLS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Find a woman.

[Estate]

Just an idea..stop dating GIRLS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Find a woman.

 

Oh come on, how self-righteous can someone be?!?!

Wanna throw out a few more clinches?

 

"Don't hate the player, hate the game" maybe?

 

I am dating GROWN WOMEN who appear TOTALLY NORMAL in day to day life... how could anyone possibly know their dating patterns until they at least attempt to get to know them...

 

and just look at this forum... otherwise grown up and great women, just become something completely different when the prospect of being with a man is on the cards "Is he cheating", "Is he a player", "Should I play hard to get", "Should I be a challenge", etc, etc, etc...

[Estate]

Misandrists have no business calling anyone a misogynist, and vice versa.

 

But of course it is their right to being a pot that called the kettle black.

 

Was that a cleverly shielded dig at someone in particular?

 

'Cos... I bet you're a "nice guy" eh? Nice guys don't look down their nose and make snide comments at people FYI.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Word of advice, since you've only been posting here for one month (unless you're an old-timer with a new handle): No one here actually knows what a "PUA" is. In LoveShack land, PUA is a slur used to describe any guy who has a level of control over his sex life that the average woman has.

 

I never heard of PUA (blissfully) before I encountered you and your fellow sages, like this guy:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/388898-players-secret-revealed-keeping-conversation-going

 

right here on LoveShack. There have been numerous guys who've promoted it and spent much bandwidth boasting about their banging escapades which were accomplished (supposedly) via PUA techniques. I'm surprised you have missed all of their many threads. That is where I learned of it, not from any slurring.

 

Anyway, most of the self-professed players have settled down, for which I am grateful, but their threads prompted me to do some intensive Internet research on the … um … philosophy? And I think I have a pretty good grasp on it.

 

My husband, and actually the other men I know have perfectly reasonable control over their sex lives (which is limited for all of us, because, after all, sex is supposed to be something that happens between two people, not controlled by one of them - unless it's a solo act. Or rape. ), and not even one of them has ever had to resort to studying at the feet of a learned guru of love like Mystery to attain that in their lives. Nor would they. Ever.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Just to be clear, you were talking about Throx right?

 

Yes, but you may or may not know that there have been dozens of threads started by many different guys that were pretty much like that one. Only worse, because the posters usually went on to brag about how they used a girl as a "cum dumpster" or scoff about what a lame bimbo she was for falling for his "game." Really disgusting stuff.

 

And I'm sure the poster I just quoted is well aware that this whole forum was "infiltrated" by male members of a PUA focussed board. Their intent was obviously to trash women. A few of them have remained.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Maybe to some, but to me a PUA is a guy who doesnt give a **** about any of the women hes trying to screw and look for ways to fake emotional connection, being dishonest and manipulative to get sex.

 

They come off like that over the Internet. But I'd bet that most of them are tremendously insecure and don't have a clue about how to approach women, so they're grasping for an ego boost.

 

One of them (now gone, thank goodness) started thread after thread gloating about how easy it is to "hunt" for women who have low self esteem. I'm not sure if that guy really had a sex life or just a glorious Internet life, but his constant bragging posts and his need to "target" women he thought were damaged says a lot about his own self esteem.

 

Don't feel threatened by guys who talk this way. They are probably not going to be taking advantage of many women IRL.

[Estate]

I never heard of PUA (blissfully) before I encountered you and your fellow sages, like this guy:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/388898-players-secret-revealed-keeping-conversation-going

 

right here on LoveShack. There have been numerous guys who've promoted it and spent much bandwidth boasting about their banging escapades which were accomplished (supposedly) via PUA techniques. I'm surprised you have missed all of their many threads. That is where I learned of it, not from any slurring.

 

Anyway, most of the self-professed players have settled down, for which I am grateful, but their threads prompted me to do some intensive Internet research on the … um … philosophy? And I think I have a pretty good grasp on it.

 

My husband, and actually the other men I know have perfectly reasonable control over their sex lives (which is limited for all of us, because, after all, sex is supposed to be something that happens between two people, not controlled by one of them - unless it's a solo act. Or rape. ), and not even one of them has ever had to resort to studying at the feet of a learned guru of love like Mystery to attain that in their lives. Nor would they. Ever.

 

I have to always defend PUA *a little*.

 

When I was younger I was HORRIBLE with girls... I was as bad or worse than some of the guys here.

 

I found out about PUA and began reading tons of stuff... then the more I got into it the more I began to hate it.

The guys who are hardcore into it are a bit weird... they lack and social intuition and feel they are above everyone else with their newfound knowledge.

 

Having said that, these days there are two schools...

1. The oldschool hardcore PUAs who sit on their keyboards and pretend the get tons of woman and wear furry hats to "peacock".

 

2. The guys who get it...! All of the above is just WEIRD! But the basis for the PUA movement was self improvement, and most of the credible guys have dropped the routines, the lines, the furry hats and focused on the GOOD aspects of what originally was PUA. Namely, being confident, being social (without being weird!), being able to approach and chat to girls they find attractive or interesting, and it then blends over into social life, work life, etc... as improving things about yourself in that way is not just all about meeting women but about being and attractive, friendly, socially attuned person.

A lot of shy and quiet people suffer from just not knowing what to do or say or how to handle social situations and they lack success in all aspects of life.

 

This stuff is no different to what Oprah or Tony Robbins or any of them will teach but instead of telling you "Oh, think positive and the world will deliver everything to your fingertips", this stuff has a more hardline approach...

 

It teaches people that ANYONE can be successful but YOU have to be the one to do it. If you find some area of your life lacking, it CAN be fixed or changed but only if you put in the work and effort to achieve it. Depending on what aspects you want to improve there are various resources and things to try.

 

I find this stuff really great. I don't like the old school pua routines and lines and ridiculousness, but I love how the other stuff has helped me become a more social and normal guy. I just lacked some social skills earlier in life and I just put myself out there and failed and failed and failed until I began to feel comfortable in social situations, then others felt more comfortable around me, I found.... I just don't classify this as what people call PUA personally.

 

For anyone who watches reality TV:

Remember that guy Mystery on MTV's "The pickup artist".... weird dude, weird tricks, etc... that is old school PUA, Mystery was the guy who was there in the beginning of all this.

 

Now look at NBC's new show "Ready for love"... Mathew Hussey started out in London as a PUA...! He worked, learned and trained with all the "top" PUAs in the London scene a long time ago...

But look at him now. He's broken away from the weirdness... look how he dresses, he's stylish, he doesn't use routines or weird lines on TV, he actually just expresses how well tuned in he is to social interaction and how attraction works....

This is all from him being a PUA! But he is a guy who learned to drop the weirdness and just become a good successful man... and it's can't be going to bad if he's making a living out of it without appearing like a sleazeball.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I have to always defend PUA *a little*.

 

I don't disagree that it can be a social aid for guys who need a boost in the confidence department when it comes to approaching girls, and to help them realize that girls are not on another planet or somehow "higher" than they are and thus out of reach.

 

I do hate the idea that in helping guys, the girls need to be brought down. I'm sure you see this in most of the literature (that can't be the right word, but whatever.)

 

And you may have noticed that several of the guys here on LS who have spent some time "studying" PUA are probably even more hopeless with girls than when they started, because it promotes more of a "us vs. them" mentality than one that helps people come together.

 

There used to be a concept of "dating tips." The implication was, though, that one actually liked and was interested in the other person. Not trying to "game" them. And for the record, I am not against casual sex. But not when somebody is trying to trick the other one into it.

 

I'm glad to hear that there is some evolution away from that crap, and I am all for anything that helps build people's confidence and ability to go for whatever they want in life - as long as they're not consciously using others in the process.

[Mme. Chaucer]

"Cum dumpster" always elicits a chuckle from me. I know, I'm immature.

 

In real life, most guys who use that term probably mostly employ toilet paper as their "cum dumpster."

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that - but sad if they're disparaging women at the same time as being alienated from us.

[fortyninethousand322]

I've never read much PUA, though I did see that "Beer in Hell" movie or whatever it's called. My brother got it on Netflix and I wasn't doing anything at the time so I watched it with him.

 

The thing is, if PUA actually works on some women, it's because those women like that kind of thing. They weren't tricked or fooled or any of that nonsense. They're just into mind games and that sort of stuff, so it works on them. Not on all women of course, but some. PUA is just delivering the goods that some people want.

[Estate]

I don't disagree that it can be a social aid for guys who need a boost in the confidence department when it comes to approaching girls, and to help them realize that girls are not on another planet or somehow "higher" than they are and thus out of reach.

 

I do hate the idea that in helping guys, the girls need to be brought down. I'm sure you see this in most of the literature (that can't be the right word, but whatever.)

 

And you may have noticed that several of the guys here on LS who have spent some time "studying" PUA are probably even more hopeless with girls than when they started, because it promotes more of a "us vs. them" mentality than one that helps people come together.

 

There used to be a concept of "dating tips." The implication was, though, that one actually liked and was interested in the other person. Not trying to "game" them. And for the record, I am not against casual sex. But not when somebody is trying to trick the other one into it.

 

I'm glad to hear that there is some evolution away from that crap, and I am all for anything that helps build people's confidence and ability to go for whatever they want in life - as long as they're not consciously using others in the process.

 

You're not wrong in saying some guys trying to "lower" a girl to boost their own value... but in reality... does this work? NO WAY!

 

The old school guys teach this and it's crap... bringing down other people is not attractive in any way. Most people actually teach guys NOT to do this now... if you are a really good genuine guy, then there is NO NEED to drag people down. They will like you for being you if you are just a good guy and that is SOUND advice I feel.

 

Also, nowadays... it's not really "gaming"... the old school guys thought it was like a video game, that there was a sequence to win the game and get the girl... but that's not true.

 

Every girl and situation is different. Some people who never "learn" this naturally just were raised in an environment where they just naturally seem to know how to make people like them and how to interact well with people.

 

Some people (me included) just didn't have hat environment, we were shy or quiet or maybe didn't have hundreds of friends. Doesn't make us bad guys but I admitted I lacked a little social savvy to know what to say or do.

 

If I saw a girl I liked, I just stumbled over my words, had no idea what to say, came off really weak and shy and in the end just stopped even going ove to talk to her.... but at the same time people always said I was the "good looking one" in my group of friends, yet I was always the guy who never got the girls...

I went from being fun with my friends to a bumbling idiot infront of girls and even other people like co-workers, bosses, teachers, people of authority, or just people in public settings that I didn't know...

 

I got over that. I don't consider it "gaming" anyone. I just consider it a life skill. Some people have it come to them more naturally... I had to just keep putting myself out there until it because natural to me too.

 

I mean, maybe some of the things I say on here come off badly, but I genuinely treat girls I am seeing really well. Heck, sometimes I even mess up by being the "nice guy" because I don't want to appear too forward if I really like a girl.

 

But the facts are, being nice and quiet and respectful was what I was raised to do and told everyone will like you then... but it just gets you walked on as an adult.

Sometimes when I'm meeting a girl I just have to act confident and strong, even if I'm trembling inside because she's so cute. But if I act like my 18 year old self, she'll walk away... but if I stand confident, talk strongly and express my interest, I find a lot more girls are receptive to it.

 

Is all that really a bad thing?

Just because I wasn't a "born natural" I should spend my Saturday nights crying into my ice cream bucket or else I'm a misogynistic? Hell no!

[Estate]

Think what you want. But wouldn't the snide comment first come from the pot that called the kettle black? I think so. Just tired of all of it whether it is man or woman hating.

 

Or are you saying its not hypocritical for a man or woman hater to call out the other?

 

I'm saying exactly what I mean...!

 

I think that was a snide dig at me and a few others on here.

Who is the pot and the kettle and whatever else you're talking about? Man up, you have something to say to someone, say it....

 

Snide remarks and veiled comments like those because you're afraid to address those you are trying to drag down makes you look pretty awful.

[Estate]

I've never read much PUA, though I did see that "Beer in Hell" movie or whatever it's called. My brother got it on Netflix and I wasn't doing anything at the time so I watched it with him.

 

The thing is, if PUA actually works on some women, it's because those women like that kind of thing. They weren't tricked or fooled or any of that nonsense. They're just into mind games and that sort of stuff, so it works on them. Not on all women of course, but some. PUA is just delivering the goods that some people want.

 

But what is "That kind of stuff"?????

 

Just knowing how to hold a good conversation with a woman, walk over to her if you think she's cute... ask for her number if she seems nice.... take her on a date if she agrees to it??

 

Like, isn't that NORMAL stuff?

 

It just doesn't come naturally to every guy.

 

I don't get how these are "tricks" and that "women don't go for that".... I mean, what is it that ANY OTHER GUY does?

[Imajerk17]

I also feel the need to defend PUA, or rather, the intent of PUA. Some guys indeed do take it up as a form of inflicting revenge on the female gender. However, most guys take it up because they genuinely want choice over their dating and sex lives.

 

Yes, there ARE a lot of great guys who do not have this choice. They may go on first date after first date (easy to get online due to their impressive resumes and writing skills), but they can't get a second date because the woman isn't *feeling* something. He keeps hearing that he is "a really nice guy but no chemistry".

 

How does a guy get this choice in his dating life? Being good with women is not about being good-looking (a myth that 95% of the Bitter Boys on here hold onto, with a fierceness that baffles me frankly). Nor is it about having or earning a lot of money, being a good guy (unfortunately), having an interesting life. If it were, you wouldn't see so many threads on here written by attractive young women who are hung up on a loser dude who has a load of insecurities and who freeloads off of them.

 

The advice these great guys got--good hygiene, dress well, work out, do well in school and get a good career, and "be confident" (whatever that means) hasn't really worked for them. So what are these guys to do? They seek out "professional strength" dating advice. Enter PUA.

 

Getting back to the OP Estate, he seems like a good guy. Not just from this thread but his entire posting history. I am astounded on the women hating on him.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Imajerk17

[fortyninethousand322]

But what is "That kind of stuff"?????

 

Just knowing how to hold a good conversation with a woman, walk over to her if you think she's cute... ask for her number if she seems nice.... take her on a date if she agrees to it??

 

Like, isn't that NORMAL stuff?

 

It just doesn't come naturally to every guy.

 

I don't get how these are "tricks" and that "women don't go for that".... I mean, what is it that ANY OTHER GUY does?

 

I'm talking about BSing people just to get them in your bed. Lying to them, telling them stories, etc. There are people who do that. They are good pick up artists. Which is to be distinguished from just being good at talking to women, or people in general, etc.

[TheBigQuestion]

I never heard of PUA (blissfully) before I encountered you and your fellow sages, like this guy:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/388898-players-secret-revealed-keeping-conversation-going

 

right here on LoveShack. There have been numerous guys who've promoted it and spent much bandwidth boasting about their banging escapades which were accomplished (supposedly) via PUA techniques. I'm surprised you have missed all of their many threads. That is where I learned of it, not from any slurring.

 

Anyway, most of the self-professed players have settled down, for which I am grateful, but their threads prompted me to do some intensive Internet research on the … um … philosophy? And I think I have a pretty good grasp on it.

 

My husband, and actually the other men I know have perfectly reasonable control over their sex lives (which is limited for all of us, because, after all, sex is supposed to be something that happens between two people, not controlled by one of them - unless it's a solo act. Or rape. ), and not even one of them has ever had to resort to studying at the feet of a learned guru of love like Mystery to attain that in their lives. Nor would they. Ever.

 

I wasn't aware that I was a PUA sage. Do I have a potential revenue stream I should be tapping into at this very moment?

 

Regardless of your (or anyone else's) opinion of the merits of PUA, that term IS commonly used on LoveShack to disparage men who multidate or get a lot of dates, regardless of their tactics, and regardless of whether they've actually read a single PUA guidebook in their lives. Kimberlydoll did so in this very thread, and did so in reference to male posters who aren't actually PUAs.

 

What I meant by "control" was men having the same degree of choice and ease of acquiring sexual partners as women do. I understand that the greater ease with which women can acquire sexual partners is not something they always look at positively, but that isn't the point. Most women can, with relatively minimal effort, garner initial romantic interest and can have sex within a few days or weeks of breaking it off with a prior prospect. Most men cannot. The men who can, however, are often derided on this site (and elsewhere) as PUAs.

[fortyninethousand322]

I loathe the terms "tricked" or "fooled" when talking about women having sex. Can we please assume that women are in fact human beings capable of making their own decisions. They're not "tricked" or "fooled" by some brutish man taking their sweet, innocence away by conning his way into their vagina.

 

At the same time, ladies own up to your ****. Stop making excuses when you do sleep with some assclown.

 

That's exactly what I was talking about. Nobody is tricked, people just don't like owning up to their own bad choices...