findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Hi everyone. I have posted a couple of times regarding my situation...under Tracy (I recently changed my LS name). Here's a brief synopsis....My H and I were divorced about 3 yrs ago. We have two small children, and it has been a long, hard 3 yrs. We've went back and forth, but never lived together. We began talking last December and in January, he asked me to marry him. He said he was tired of the games and we needed to put our family back together once and for all. I thought about it for a while and decided that it had to be the answer because things were so hard with us apart. This got kinda long, you can skip to end.... I told my H that if we were going through this again, that it had to be all or nothing. For the first time, I committed myself to make things work and honestly wanted it. I sold my house and moved back in with him. After a couple of months, and him not mentioning anything about marriage, I began to question him. At first, we were just too busy and was waiting for the right time. Then it turned into, let's not rush things. I began to get upset, like I was mislead. I thought things were completely different and had taken such a giant leap of faith by selling my house, etc. We began arguing about it, so I decided to let it go and trust him, hoping it would just happen when the time was right. Not long after that I found out he was inappropriately chatting with other girls online. He had been doing it mildly since January. I told him it bothered me, then straight up asked him to stop. He didn't and kept lying about it. I think he has finally stopped the online flirting, but it caused lots of problems while we have been trying to reconcile. After the last confrontation of the online stuff, I told him we should take a step back, gain some composure, and really focus on making things better. It was hard enough for us to work on things after being divorced, and the getting married issue and online stuff only made things worse. I had built up resentment and wasn't attracted to him sexually. When we were together it only made things worse. I felt like he didn't respect me enough to give our RS a true effort, but he still expected sex. I asked him if we could refrain from sex until we worked through these problems, until we could be together wout all the resentment--not just from recent events, but also from past issues we realized we hadn't let go of. I wanted us to work on the core problems, rebuild a friendship, and then an intimate relationship. HERE'S THE URGENT PART: He called me today and said he has been praying about things. And, God is telling him he needs to take charge and be the leader of our family. He said that if I want us to continue living in the same house that I must have sex with him......at least three times a day. Keep in mind, we have only refrained from sex for six weeks so far. We had sex Saturday per his request and it didn't go well. I felt used. He said that if I couldn't do that for him, that he had no motivation to meet my needs for affection, or anything else for that matter. And, if I couldn't do that, then I should leave. He feels like I am just wasting time by wanting to work on issues and build a friendship first, and if I give him sex then he will have motivation to treat me better, and things will just get better from there. I really want our marriage to work...mostly because of the kids. And, I have really been trying since January. To his credit, in the past, he wanted it and tried harder than I did. But, for the past year, he has been the one to continue to jeapordize things. I know that it will not make things better by him forcing me to have sex. But, I am afraid to leave because I know it will be over. Advice, thoughts, anything..........
sami Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I can understand the "resentment" you built against. However, other than his chatting online with other girls do you personally have some other issues ? in other words; do you feel like you were wholeheartedly with him before you found out that he was chatting? Are you emotionally, not necessarily physically, involved with anybody other than him?.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 I can understand the "resentment" you built against. However, other than his chatting online with other girls do you personally have some other issues ? in other words; do you feel like you were wholeheartedly with him before you found out that he was chatting? Are you emotionally, not necessarily physically, involved with anybody other than him?. The other issues are just those that we have from being divorced and why we divorced in the first place. His flirting, working all the time, etc. I was wholehartedly with him in that I was doing everything in my power to make things work. I completely cut off contact with anyone else I thought would interfere with us, including just friends. I'm not involved in any way with anyone else. I haven't seen, spoken to, emailed, anything---anyone else since we committed to reconcile. I still care for OM, but I suspect I will always care for him, even though we will never be together again. Same way I still loved my H even though we were divorced.
sami Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Since you still care for your OM you will never be wholeheartedly with your husband. You need time to either completely clear your system or end your marriage.
Quilly Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I'm sorry... I know I shouldn't presume to know your exhusband or your relationship well enough to say this but.... you really shouldn't put up with that kind of behavior. His demanding sex from you, using it as a bargaining tool, and lack of interest in working on your relationship all say to me that he's selfish and doesn't care that much about you. If he had half a brain and was using it, he would know and respect that you need to work through the issues before you can move forward with an intimate relationship. Having sex with him when yo don't want to will only build further resentment. He either hasn't got a clue about emotions and intimacy or he does and he's using it to push you away. He's wrong... don't give in to him. If you haven't already, try explaining it to him. If he really cares about you he won't force the issue and he won't hold it against you. Good luck.
Butchey Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 find, You need counseling. You have allot of resentment built up and it is not going away on it's own. You both need help. It sounds like he lies allot. He should be praying about that and not sex. Because he has chatted online and wants sex leads me to believe he may be into online porn. Just a hunch but you should check the computer out for evidence. Don't stay in a marriage because of the kids. The kids will survive with one good parent. It is better than two half parents. You sound like a very dedicated and strong person. Get pro help. Keep moving ahead.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Butch-- We've had counseling, several times. On our own and together. I think I'd like to talk to our preacher together, but I don't think more counseling will help at this point. Yes, he's been into online porn. I installed IAMBIGBROTHER, keystroke logger. Normally, the porn wouldn't be an issue. I don't have a problem with mild porn, esp if it's shared together. However, I think he has a problem, addiction, with sex. Always has. He treats it very clinical and most things depend on it. I told him I didn't like that he was visiting porn sites all day while I was at work (he works shift, nights), especially while we are having these problems. I felt like he was going online and sharing thoughts with other women he should have been sharing with me, and getting off with other women (porn) when we (me and him) should be working on that between the two of us. Shouldn't stay because of kids...,.that's easier said than done. Esp when he is such a jerk while we're apart. Maybe it's because I'm not a strong enough person to handle things, but I can't bear what the kids went through when we were apart--because of how he handled things. I am not sure--but I think I would rather endure this marriage until the kids are older, and then move on with my life.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Since you still care for your OM you will never be wholeheartedly with your husband. Are you sure about this? I mean, I am realistic about everything. I don't hold on to fantasies that we can be together. I really loved him. That's not just something you can throw away when things end. Don't we all have someone in our past that we really cared about, but it didn't work out---and we still care for them? I have focused on keeping those feelings in perspective.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 He either hasn't got a clue about emotions and intimacy or he does and he's using it to push you away. Q--this is exactly what I'm not sure about. He has always been a little immature emotionally...he was raised that way. But, he is a very good person and has good intentions. And, I think he has grown since the divorce, so I really think he knows what's going on. I don't want to believe it, but I think he may be using it to push me away...to make me be the one to decide to leave again. His parents were in a similar situation and his mom stayed for the kids. He doesn't have the courage to be the one to say goodbye...his parents, his family, doesn't work that way.
Quilly Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 Are you sure you really want to stay in this for the kids? If you are, then you and your exhusband need to openly admit to this and establish some definite parameters for your relationship. If you don't want to have sex with him, then don't! If he can't accept that then he needs to take responsibility for ending the relationship and behaving like an adult. I really don't think you should stay with him just for the kids. You deserve to be happy and to enjoy your life. Your kids would want the same for you. What is it he did that made it difficult for the kids? Have you discussed this with him? If a man can care about anything else more than himself, it should be his kids! If he can't/won't put their well-being before himself, then you should talk to an attorney to see what you can do. I respect your trying to keep your family together. Three years is a long time... that alone attests to how strong you are as person. It's not about anyone being a bad person.... it's about doing what is best for you. And what is best for you will also be best for your children.
Butchey Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I respect your trying to keep your family together. Three years is a long time... that alone attests to how strong you are as person. It's not about anyone being a bad person.... it's about doing what is best for you. And what is best for you will also be best for your children. Ditto!
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 He just called. I told him that I cannot accept his demands. That I want us to stay together and make things work. I realize that he has needs, and I will work on meeting them. But, it isn't going to happen overnight. And, esp in light of the fact we've been divorced and what we've been going through, that I deserve a little time. I wouldn't be complacent and not work on improving things, but it will not just happen because of his demands. If he feels differently, he will have to take responsibility for ending the RS. He said that he feels that he hasn't been in control of things since we've been trying (this absolutely is not true. I have been very conscious of this as he says I controlled events past couple of years. I was careful to make joint decisions in everything. The only thing I decided was recently when I told him I couldn't be with him when I didn't want to be...and we needed to work on things first.) He said that if I will not allow him to be "the leader of this family" and make the decisions, then I need to move out. And, he will accept responsibiity for that. I still think I could stay for the kids. I feel like if I did, and we continued to constructively work on things, that it would get better. We have a mutual admiration for our children, and enough respect/love left that if we work hard enough we could get it all back in a matter of time. However, I tried to set parameters, like Quilly said, and he will not accept them. I even asked to discuss it and compromise, but he said it's his way or not at all.
Butchey Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 He has so many problems. King complex. Is he worth it? REPEAT: Get counseling. Marriage, individual, pastoral, AA, etc. Whatever you can.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 He may not be worth it, but my kids def are. I am so hesitant about the counseling thing....since we've been through it so many times. I am willing to speak to our preacher, but I don't have the energy or drive to see ANOTHER counselor. Is that wrong?
Matilda Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 So, am I understanding this right? He wants sex 3 times a day?! And God told him to demand this of you? Does this sound bizarre to anyone else but me? I definitely think you should go talk to the pastor. I would want a third party's opinion about this one. What was he doing when you were divorced that made things so miserable for the kids? I am a big believer in doing whatever is best for the kids. I think many times that means keeping the marriage together any which way you can. But, sometimes the kids are better off and happier when their parents are not together, so their home life is not so full of conflict.
meanon Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 He said that if I couldn't do that for him, that he had no motivation to meet my needs for affection, or anything else for that matter. And, if I couldn't do that, then I should leave. He feels like I am just wasting time by wanting to work on issues and build a friendship first, and if I give him sex then he will have motivation to treat me better, and things will just get better from there. Why should he need a motivation to treat you well and express affection towards you? Why is he married to you if he doesn't care for you and if he does care for you, why is he using his affection to get you to do something that makes you feel used? Tracy (sorry, it's stuck ) he either has no idea of the effect it would have on you or else he doesn't care. You've made the right decision. Giving in to his demands would drive you further apart. It wouldn't do you a whole lot of good either and you need to be in the best shape you can be for your kids. I'm not sure you need counselling but I think he would benefit from it and it may be that the only way to achieve this is to go jointly. I know you want to stay for the kids, Tracy but he has to want it too and if he's not willing to invest in buiding a relationship with you then there's not a lot you can do about it.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 And God told him to demand this of you? Yes. He has a history of turning things into what is best for him. I am a Christian in that I believe in God. I do not believe to the extreme he does: that a woman should fully submit to her husband / reasons he gives for doing stuff like "satan tempted me to talk to you and say those things. I've never said anything like that before"....when I set up a fake ID and he was talking to me on Yahoo. What was he doing when you were divorced that made things so miserable for the kids? Mostly, he used the girls as a bargaining tool. I settled for joint custody (first mistake) because he has alot of family that help and are really good to and for the girls. He would lay a guilt trip on me regularly saying if I would just really try, things would work. That I at least owe that to the girls. Each time I would "try", he would say it wasn't enough. The sexual incompatibility---he would say if I would just submit and be with him, even if I didn't want to, that God would reward my submissiveness. He was never willing to call a truce and be friends for the kids sake. I always wanted to reconcile, but not in the sense that he did. I felt like he wasn't mature enough to admit he lost me and maintain a ammicable RS for the kid's sake. Man---after typing this I read it and it sounds so barbaric. I am embarrassed for you to know that I have agreed to these things. It doesn't seem that unbelievable in real life, because he really is a great person, and doesn't appear to be the wacko it sounds like here.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Why should he need a motivation to treat you well and express affection towards you? Why is he married to you if he doesn't care for you and if he does care for you, why is he using his affection to get you to do something that makes you feel used? That's all he knows...he was raised that way.....feelings, emotion, passion is very clinical to him. We aren't married. I moved back in under the assumption that we were going to get remarried. But, he kept putting it off and now we are here.
Quilly Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 I'm glad you told him you won't give in to his demands. I know you've struggled with the guilt and wondering if you have done enough to keep your family together.... Tracy, you have! He's wrong and you have to know that. If counseling or a pastor would be helpful in getting him to realize this, then give it a shot. But after that, if your exhusband still demands the sex... move on. Your body is not his to control. He's crossed the line in demanding it... if he won't acknowledge that, then he's not worth it!
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 Q--everything you are saying makes sense to me. And, I know I wouldn't ever feel complete if I continue with the way things are. I just want us to be a family SO BAD. My parents were divorced, and I want to give my kids every advantage, opportunity possible. I love them with everything I have, and it breaks my heart to think they will miss out on the fulfillness of a happy, healthy family. I want that for them so badly I sometimes think I am willing to make sacrifices. But, when I am with H under those pretenses, I die a little more each time. And, then I'm not the great person I can be to my kids. A no-win situation, and I want to figure out a way to make it work
meanon Posted September 20, 2004 Posted September 20, 2004 He may be a nice guy but you chose the right adjective to describe how he's behaving: barbaric. Not only that but he's absolving himself as he does it. That's all he knows...he was raised that way.....feelings, emotion, passion is very clinical to him. But not to you. His response is to force you to have sex with him in the hope that God will intervene or he will somehow discover how to express affection. I think this man is trying to bully you into submission. To use you, as he used the children while you were separated to get you to do as he wished. There is no prospect for reconciliation, in my view, if he continues to take this approach. Hopefully he will see sense, particularly if you can get him to discuss the matter with someone else. If not I think you will need to begin to think through how you can make a separation easier for the kids than it was the last time. I know it's not what you want but the effects on them will be as severe, if not more so, if you stay in an intolerable situation. It is a no win situation but if you stay you and the kids will suffer indefinitely. If you leave and can protect them from being used by him, you and the kids will recover.
Author findinmyway Posted September 20, 2004 Author Posted September 20, 2004 He really is a good father. I think his pain and pride are what made him behave the way he did when we separated. If we aren't able to reach some sort of compromise, I will have to leave. I hope that our experience together this past year will help him handle things better this time. I hope he is able to see that I've tried everything I can, and he'll be able to move on into a healthy RS. I hate that my kids won't have the fairy tale family. But, I am beginning to see that I cannot be my best for them under these circumstances. If I know we - he - could be friends, I would feel so much better. How do I get the strength to let go, knowing I can't make him do what's best for them? Sort of a control issue for me, huh? I have to trust that his fatherly instincts will prevail and he will do what's best for them.
meanon Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 How do I get the strength to let go, knowing I can't make him do what's best for them? If you ever find the answer, please let me know . Yes, it's about control. It's hard to accept that we can't always protect our kids from the harsh realities of life, that there are some things we can't kiss better and make all right. It's a false choice. You can't make him do what's best for them if you stay (compromising with you). In the end you have to do what you know is right and hope for the best. This time you stand a much better chance of making a happy life for yourself and your children because you know you've done the best you can.
Quilly Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 You will be doing the right thing by leaving. If he tries to guilt you into staying by using the girls and "why won't you do it for their sake"... turn it around on him and ask why he won't compromise and give in on his demands for sex until after you've worked on your relationship. You're not telling him you won't have sex with him ever again... you're simply asking for time to repair the relationship first. This is about him and putting his needs first before his children. You talk about wanting to give your children the advantages of being a family... keep in mind that a family can be many different things. What is important is that your children feel loved, appreciated, and secure. You don't all have to live in one house to accomplish that.
Mr Spock Posted September 21, 2004 Posted September 21, 2004 Originally posted by findinmyway Butch-- We've had counseling, several times. On our own and together. I think I'd like to talk to our preacher together, but I don't think more counseling will help at this point. Yes, he's been into online porn. I installed IAMBIGBROTHER, keystroke logger. Normally, the porn wouldn't be an issue. I don't have a problem with mild porn, esp if it's shared together. However, I think he has a problem, addiction, with sex. Always has. He treats it very clinical and most things depend on it. I told him I didn't like that he was visiting porn sites all day while I was at work (he works shift, nights), especially while we are having these problems. I felt like he was going online and sharing thoughts with other women he should have been sharing with me, and getting off with other women (porn) when we (me and him) should be working on that between the two of us. Shouldn't stay because of kids...,.that's easier said than done. Esp when he is such a jerk while we're apart. Maybe it's because I'm not a strong enough person to handle things, but I can't bear what the kids went through when we were apart--because of how he handled things. I am not sure--but I think I would rather endure this marriage until the kids are older, and then move on with my life. RUN AWAY RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!! The kids are going to be f*cked up no matter when the marriage ends. Jesus woman, pull the nails out of your wrist and get down off that cross. This guy is a REAL JERK of a husband. Regardless of his parenting abilities. Your children also deserve to see you happy.
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