When Is a Marriage Over?

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

This all sounds so familiar. I was 33 when my marriage started failing. I have gone outside the marriage on a few occasions - a couple of times just for sex, online for emotional, and now I've met someone who fulfills both needs.

 

Now I'm on here reading these posts trying to justify leaving my husband and 2 kids (age 7 and 9). I know I probably will not be able to take the kids with me. He is a great father, used to spoil me by housecleaning, cooking, taking the kids places so I have lots of "me" time and we both work full time.

 

I know alot of women in their mid 30's feel like this too. My doctor prescribed anti-depressants and counselling. This didn't work the first time (as you mentioned, my heart wasn't in it). Now I'm on the medication again, but it's to treat anxiety - the PMS that lasts all month long, the agitation I feel around the home, and I feel more mellow and don't snap at my husband and kids as much as before. Maybe ask your doctor about it.

 

I've kept alot of secrets from my husband, but I just don't know if we've done enough to make our marriage work or how to begin to try. Or if we've exhausted our effortless efforts and it's now time to end it. We don't seem to like each others ideas as to what to try. I suggest dates and nights out and he complains about the cost and babysitting. I also suggested scheduling a night each week for lovemaking, but he wants it to be spontaneous. He hasn't come up with any ideas - like he thinks it should all come naturally but I have a difficult time looking him in the eye these days or telling him how I feel.

 

Having an OM doesn't help matters, but I'm prepared to lose everything if I leave. I know that statistics show the OM and I probably won't last. Good luck to everyone else in this situation.

[confusedkat]

Obviously, you know from my post that I am very confused. But I can say one thing with much certainty...don't leave your children, not completely. My parents had a horrible marriage which included physical, mental, emotional abuse and adultry. It should have never ever happened....the marriage I mean. My mother left the marriage numerous times, as did my father. My father finally left for good when I was in 3rd grade. My mother asked him to come back to take care of my sister and I, and she left to move in with her new boyfriend. This is something that scarred me and my sister. I can say with all my heart, that no matter what is the right thing for you personally, and I whole heartedly believe divorce is right sometimes, that you both need to handle your children with the love and respect they deserve. All the problems my husband and I have, we agree that if it comes to divorce, we have one common goal...to make sure our children suffer our mistakes as little as possible. I don't know what your situation is with your husband, how bad it is or how you both handle your children, but just keep your children as a focus in your decision. Ultimately, if you stay because of them, and only for them, I don't think that is good for the kids, but if you do need to leave, is this man worth everything you have in your life, your children especially? I am not judging...as I said, I am in a pretty dark place in my life. I just hope that you think long and hard. There is very little, if anything or anyone, that I would place before my children. Of course, their happiness is dependant on your happiness, but other than that, I don't think there would be a worse guilt to live with. For what it is worth....

 

Good luck to you. I know how hard it is and how much all the indecision hurts.

[confusedkat]

maybe this will help you in your decision. Today, I was trying to look at my situaiton in a different light. As a mother of a 5 year old girl...I tried to imagine what I would advise her. What I would hope she would do. Try to put yourself outside of your situation and how would you advise. It brought me some small amount of clarity.

 

And yes, I tried the anti depressants earlier this year. I stayed on them for a couple months before stopping. I didn't like that I felt I was in a fog. I felt better, but that's because I FELT less. I don't know that I could know what an "UP" was in my life if I couldn't experience some of the "DOWNS", if that makes sense....

[Ladyjane14]

(sorry, had to do the dinner / homework thing )

 

Anyway, like Mom-Wife says, this sounds familiar. I think it's pretty common for women to get into their mid-30's, look around and say to themselves, "WTF, I'm all grown up, and is THIS all there is??!"

 

We watch our children growing and see the phases that they go through, and it's all normal development. We talk about mid-life crisis, like it's an event rather than a series of adult developmental stages, and ALWAYS something that happens to OTHER PEOPLE! lol

 

But I think it's something we all go through, at least to some degree. I hate to generalize, but it seems to me that women start dealing with this around their mid-30's and men tend to start around their early 40's.

 

It's all too easy to blame your partner when you're feeling dissatisfied with your life. My husband managed to make me feel like EVERYTHING that was wrong in his life was somehow my fault. And you know, hindsight being 20/20, I probably made him feel the same.

 

I think you just have to OWN your issues here. You can't make it be about anybody else, when it's you that's unhappy. That's why these days, I'll wait for awhile if I'm p*ssed off about something. I have to mull it over, give it the litmus test of 'who's issue is this?'.

 

One of the reasons that I stayed in for soooo long, while my marriage was emotionally dead, was that I just couldn't find ENOUGH fault with my husband to leave him. Part of my philosophy in that is the old saying that 'all cats are gray in the dark'. When you start talking about trading in one man for another, well aren't you kind of talking about trading in THIS set of problems for a different one? Afterall, my husband was really as good as the next man. None of us perfect, but it wasn't like he was a womanizer or a wife-beater or a bum.

 

So I stayed. Like playing poker, it was a good enough hand to keep me in the game. That is, until we reached our crisis point, which happened to coincide with his early-40's and the mid-life feelings of dissatisfaction, btw.

 

I won't bore you with all the details, but he was suffering alot emotionally and began to behave really badly. When I first realized the extent at which he was "behaving badly", all bets were off. He had finally given me a good enough REASON. And buddy, I was outta here!

 

I had done two things on the Friday afternoon when I had first received some real clues. One, I made an appointment with a lawyer, just to find out what my options were. Two, I bought a copy of Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue. At this point, I didn't have full disclosure of all the details.

 

Just before my appointment with the lawyer on the following morning, I went into his computer. I thought I'd take some incriminating info with me to the appointment. I got much MORE than I had bargained for though, because without too much difficulty, I had hacked into EVERYTHING. And it was substantial enough to make me not bother with finding out the options anymore. I was just going to divorce his a$$.

 

It was actually the book that kept me from doing it. I think it could have been ANY book really, so long as it got me thinking about the marital relationship. But if I hadn't read it over the weekend, I would have been in NO frame of mind to talk about reconciliation.

 

When I confronted him on Monday afternoon, I was calm, sad but business-like. Told him I wanted a divorce, and all I cared about at that point was being good parents to our children. I could give a rat's patootie about rehashing the problems because it no longer mattered. It was over.

 

And then he fell apart, right before my eyes. It was like a man hanging by his fingernails on the edge of a really deep pit. I could either pull him up, or kick him down. There was nothing for him at the bottom, I knew it. He'd spend his life running from pillar to post, hating me, and yet looking for me in the eyes of every woman he would ever meet. He's bonded to ME. Anyone else would be a cheap copy.

 

I'd have spent my life alone, and distrustful. Never accepting another man who had the potential to hurt me that way again.

 

So, I pulled him up. No one was more surprised than I to find out I was still in love with this man.

 

They say you can't fix people. I find that to be both true and false, because what you can do is to support them while they fix themselves. You can't control them and be all disappointed when they don't do what YOU think they should during the process. But you can make suggestions, and draw the line at what is truly unacceptable to you. And more importantly, you CAN fix yourself.

 

I'm a jack-of-all-trades and a master of none. What that means in my case is that when something interests me, my full concentration falls upon it, and I learn until I feel like I know something about it. And my full concentration FINALLY fell upon HIM! I'm sure he felt like a lab-rat!!! But he also finally felt like he was important to me. My attention had been diverted for so long on EVERYTHING ELSE. He didn't FEEL my love anymore. How sad is that? That you can leave the one you love feeling totally unlovable.

 

The first thing we did together was to take divorce OFF THE TABLE. Nobody was leaving. We were each granted the security of knowing that the other was fully committed.

 

Then we CLEANED THE SLATE. That's not as easy as it sounds. We had over 20 years worth of stored up resentment. You really have to remind yourself everyday that you chose to forgive EVERY previous transgression. And it has to be 100% mutual.

 

But once that stored up resentment falls away, you can really SEE each other again. It's like a miracle! I saw all this fabulous, funny, sexy man that I thought was gone! Resentment had clouded our vision. Sure, he still has lots of faults, but guess what - SO DO I! And people who live in glass houses don't throw stones. So I amended my thinking again, and chose to accept him fully, faults and all. And he did the same. So now, I am loved - faults and all. How cool is that???

 

Over the past six months, we've both learned to do our best to satisfy each others truest needs. The hard part is identifying them correctly.

 

Because I found out that this man NEEDS me to feed him. It's really not a want with him. If I make him a sandwich and kiss him on the top of his head while he's watching the ballgame, I am loving him demonstratively. When I make him aware of the fact that he is sexually DESIRABLE, I am loving him demonstratively. He needs ACTIVE VERBS to feel securely loved. He needs to be shown.

 

I'm more passive about it. I need him to give me his words. I need him to share his feelings, and sometimes, I need him to leave me the f*k alone, and let me have some ME time! And you know what, he has NO problem with meeting my needs now. He is happy to reciprocate.

 

I think what it all comes down to is that even though you could've knocked me over with a feather, I realized that I still loved him. That's why even when I thought I felt nothing else for him, I hadn't been able to find that 'good enough reason'.

 

I'm not gonna lie to you and tell you that I don't do most of the relationship work. He's just not interested in what OTHER people have to say. Just in what he and I say.

 

I ride these boards and keep my interest in the marital relationship alive. I recognise the jack-of-all-trades in myself, so I am wary of losing my interest in a subject that I've wrung all the juice from. This is too important to ever go on the back-burner again.

 

And I spend ALOT of time, thinking about what our truest needs are, and shooting down the wants and expectations.

 

I spend time in letting him be himself, and thwarting my natural inclinations to try to control him and make him into what-I-think-I-want-at-the-moment. And even more difficult, I make him back off and let me do the same. The litmus test being 'what is good for the gander is good for the goose'.

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling on so. I hope that helps you. I can't tell you if things will work out the same for you. You're the only one who knows what you really want. All I can say is that I'm the happiest I've been in 20 years, and I'm so glad I stuck in.

 

[confusedkat]

What an inspirational story! Thank you so much for sharing it with me. Yesterday, I was truly on the verge of a breakdown. Like I said, I have gone outside my marriage only emotionally. But that is extremely hard for me to deal with. I mean, years of emotional neglect and selfishness on my husband's part. So, I go outside 6 months ago, and this other man is in love with me and I feel in love. So, again the pain of that is interfering with my thoughts and mind. But, again, like you, I look at this man, who I can't find "enough reasons" to really call it quits accept I feel like he doesn't speak to my soul. Doesn't really know me and doesn't have the innate connection this other man, who as I said, left my life in a noble way last week, wanting me to find my way without a crutch. Hard part, my husband is doing and being all he can....NOW. NOW that I have reached a point where I was about to leave him. He wants to know me, help me, grow with me...share our family. And I believe he is genuine. And I hope I can find the love for him again, but it is hard while I mourn the other man, who instantly knew who I was, saw the my past and read my pain without me ever telling him. Similar childhoods, similar struggles. Anyhow, that adds to my confusion. So, right now, I take it day to day. I talekd to my husband yesterday. He knows I feel like the feelings are gone, but that I haven't commited to ending it yet. Something keeps me. Don't know if it is him or my fears. So I take it one day at a time. He finally said something to me, that released my from some pain. He said if I am not really happy with him in the long run, he will be sad, monumentally dissapointed, but he could never be angry with me. That if I can't get over our past issues, he could never be angry. So we both agreed that if the feelings don't come back eventually, that we need to part ways. But I know how hard he is willing to try. I just need to find out if I am committed that strongly anymore. Wow. That really helped me and confused me even more. Here was this man, who built his life around me, again, not always being a great husband (but I haven't been a great wife), and he loves me but is willing to let me go if I need to. I will never leave him for someone else...so that is whyI need to get over my friend. If I ever leave, it needs to be because we just can't make it work. And you are so right that to trade men is to trade one set of problems for another. Do you believe that some people are more innately connected, though? I am not sure. Marriage is hard work. And when tehre are children involved, it is even more important to truly understand why and where the feelings are coming from.

 

I do so much appreciate you sharing your story with me. It makes me look even more at why that small glimmer of hope still exists. Maybe deep down, there is still something there. I am really glad for you that you found it. I hope I can find the right way. Whichever way that is.

 

My daughter is calling for another game of Candyland, so while I have more to say and comment about your story, I guess duty calls. Thank you, again. I guess time will tell. One day at a time for now. I can't say thanks enough for sharing !

[findinmyway]

Hey LJ! You really should write a book. Have you thought about that? Perhaps something really good can come from your experiences.....other than a saved marriage

 

I wish I had your courage and selflessness. I think that's what it boils down to. I really don't have a good enough reason to leave either....in that I can't find enough bad in him as a person, husband, father. Yet, my heart just isn't in it and try as I may I can't make it happen. I know deep down that has a lot to do with me, me, me. I don't feel it now and I want to find (actually find my way back) to the person who does "do it for me". I also have enough common sense to realize that I will be trading in one set of problems for another....with someone else. But, this issue of intimacy, sexual frustration, and incompatibility in that area, is so bad and gone on for so long that I don't want to try to fix it anymore. And, I think I could live with a different set of problems, but I can't live with this problem any more. It has depleted my energy, my drive, me.

 

Perhaps if I read your story a couple of years ago, I would have had enough energy and drive left to turn things around. And, even though your story inspires me tremendously, I sadly believe that sometimes there is a point that it is over, when too much has happened to a couple that could have been saved at one time.

[Ladyjane14]

Tracy, I've thought about your situation alot, and like I said before, you've put up the good fight. But, I think you're looking at more than just the average sexual avoidance that most of us exerience from time to time. I think it's possible that you've got some pretty bad scars to deal with. (I'm still mad about that '5-times a day, submit to me thing'! )

 

Have you tried any more intensive psychotherapy? That might be the only answer at this point. That, in conjunction with couples counseling. If this issue is going in a direction that eventually becomes phobic, then I don't see how you'd ever work it out with your husband or anyone else for that matter. I think it's possible that you're still dealing with so much guilt, that you may need some help in getting past it.

 

Even if you do end the marriage at some point, aren't you better off for having worked out all these issues?

 

 

 

 

Kat,

 

my husband is doing and being all he can....NOW. NOW that I have reached a point where I was about to leave him

 

 

I know what you mean EXACTLY here! My husband didn't show ANY desire to work things out either - not until I was on my way out the door.

 

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Hello again. Wow looks like 3 of us in the same scenario (I'm sure there are many more) and LJ - your story - wow that is very eye-opening. I don't know if I have the energy left either to put into the big fix. I have learned to keep myself very busy with my competitive sports (trying for Olympic team) and taking courses and working full time as well as the kids activities. There is no time to work on the marriage, yet I have time to meet the OM a couple of times a week, and he's an hour away!

 

Confused Kat, you're right about the anti-depressants. I take a low dose (for anxiety mainly) but I don't "feel" as much. I was on the verge of tears yesterday, but they just would not come out. I am normally a laid back person, so this has really mellowed me.

 

I came home late last night (spent an hour with the OM after a team meeting) and H made a comment and was up in the middle of the night so I think we're going to have a big talk tonight. He is probably going to ask me if I'm cheating and I'm going to turn the question right back to him. I was out of town last week and I haven't been on the computer at home, but I can guess what he was up to, and who knows, maybe he is cheating on me?!

 

I don't want the OM to be the cause of a break-up (and neither does the OM). I know if I do leave, or if I can get H to leave, that I will need to take some time to be on my own, whether it's just to make it LOOK like I'm not seeing someone, or to actually figure out exactly what I want, I don't know, it's a big screwed up mess, and I'm taking it one day at a time right now.

 

OK I'm blabbing now and need to get back to work. It's comforting to be here knowing I'm not alone.

[Ladyjane14]

You said before that you were planning on getting some therapy. Have you gone yet? You still sound so confused on what you want.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

aaack no I haven't! I have been playing telephone tag with the therapist and now she is out of town for a couple of weeks.

 

You are exactly right. I don't know what I want...not really. Right now I want the OM cuz he's hot! but, that is the little devil on my shoulder talking.

 

The OM went for therapy in the last year - his wife left him 3 yrs ago for a guy on the internet and is happy with her life, and he now knows what he wants. I need to find out what I want.

 

and YES my kids always come first - that may sound hypocritical, but I love them more than anything.

[findinmyway]

Even if you do end the marriage at some point, aren't you better off for having worked out all these issues?

 

Definitely. And, it wasn't FIVE times a day, only THREE. And, remember we aren't even married! Been divorced three years.

 

MWC - It is hard, but really try your best to keep OM out of the pic for a while. You, and everyone, will be much better off. If you can convince OM that you are doing it for the best interest of everyone, even the two of you, you will save a lot of heartache. And, if your ultimate goal is for you and OM to be together, the chances are much more likely if you take some distance at this point.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I planned on having a talk with H last night but it didn't happen. Tonight I will tell him what's on my mind (that I'm not happy). And I already talked with the OM and he understands exactly what you said - that if we have to not see each other for a while it will be worth it in the end.

 

thanks.

[Ladyjane14]

MWC, I hope things go well for you in your talk with him. I wish I had more advice than just try to stay calm and focus on the issues.

 

No matter how it goes, follow through with that therapy. You've got a pattern of behavior going on that needs to be taken care of no matter who you end up being with.

 

 

Tracy, 3 times instead of 5 still ain't fixin' it for me! lolol

 

[findinmyway]

Aw, come on. Three times, that's realistic, right

[meanon]

I think I could live with a different set of problems, but I can't live with this problem any more. It has depleted my energy, my drive, me.

 

Perhaps if I read your story a couple of years ago, I would have had enough energy and drive left to turn things around. And, even though your story inspires me tremendously, I sadly believe that sometimes there is a point that it is over, when too much has happened to a couple that could have been saved at one time.

 

Very moving and very true, findinmyway

[findinmyway]

Hi Meanon. I HAVE to learn to PM, so I don't take up thread space

[meanon]

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