Interpret verbatim conversation

[Jefezen]

I'm female so believe me when I say that when a woman likes a guy, her attention diverts to that interest. *Sure, it is possible to have feelings for two people simultaneously but there often has to be a certain level of emotional attachment or bond with both men. She went from being friendly etc to expressly stating that she could not hang out with you. She effectively withdrew completely from the friendship/relationship. You didn't do anything wrong to her, but she has retracted. This has nothing to do with your actions or inactions but with her new found flame.

 

I agree with you to the extent that she does not appear to want anything to do with me even as a friend. There was nothing in my conduct with her to merit such an extreme detachment. It calls into question why she claimed in the beginning of the quoted conversation that she'd like to go out with me and socialize as a friend, when by the end of that same conversation she says it would be wrong to see me for a casual lunch. Perhaps as the conversation progressed she realized that my interest in her remains strong and she wants to avoid being thrust into the awkward position of friendship with someone who seeks more than friendship in return. Also, as you point out, her interest in this new person diverts her attention away from other things and people anyway.

 

The reason I think her pulling away from me relates more to a combination of what I did (or more likely, didn't do) and her own personality quirks is because she's been withdrawing for several months. I've periodically been trying to see her since January. She's only gone out with this new guy twice, which implies he's come into her life only very recently. He might be a factor as to why she won't see me at all in the present, but I don't think he was the root cause. The timing just doesn't support that interpretation. From her own words, it appears that I lost her, at the latest, all the way back in early February when I asked her out for Valentines Day. Her explanation in the quoted conversation for why she turned me down then was that "It wouldn't be true."

 

I acknowledge my errors. While I shouldn't necessarily change how I express myself or how I think for any one person, as that would be altering who I am at my core, I do need to be faster with creating sexual tension and displaying romantic interest. Too many times I've been slow, too many times I've taken early opportunities for granted. When the same issue, when the same complaint, crops up repeatedly from multiple sources, it's not the other person at fault, it's me. I'm sure there are women out there who would be patient enough to let me come along at my own pace, but I shouldn't have to rely on their emotional largesse. It's about time I manned up in that department. Often in life we regret what we didn't do more than what we did do and failed. It's the doubt of not knowing what the outcome could have been that gnaws at the soul.

 

That being said, I do respect your point, and that of others, regarding the importance of not persisting in self-flagellation over her perception of our incompatibility. We're all individuals with distinct personalities, desires, values, and backgrounds; sometimes the cliche, "It isn't you, it's me" really does hold true. Just because I'm not getting what I think I want doesn't mean I'm the sole culprit. There were plenty of things she did that bothered me. There were plenty of mistakes that she made along the way which colored my subsequent behavior. That I overlooked or consciously overcame them in my neediness for romantic companionship and augmenting fixation in her does not erase their objective presence.

 

For example, as I alluded to earlier, that second date where she told me how much she loves sex, where she stared longingly into my eyes, where she held my hands, I most certainly would have made a move on her. I was ready for it. But then she got that suspicious text message and abruptly terminated our evening. That was quite the mood killer. "I have to go," she said. I asked her if everything was okay and she replied, "I'm kind of tired, I've been sick." I walked her to her car, and even though I was parked in another neighborhood, she did not offer to drive me to my vehicle, something she had insisted upon on our first date even though I was parked only a block away from her that time. Then when I checked in with her an hour later to see if she arrived home safely I did not get any answer until the following afternoon when she defensively texted me something to the effect of, "I went straight home to bed and fell asleep. Thanks for your concern."

 

I told my friends this story and they almost uniformly recommended that I forget this woman and find someone else. Even though I did not accept their advice, it still affected how I perceived her. I assumed the worst, which was that she received a booty call. She's telling me she loves sex, she seems to be getting a little frisky, then she abruptly abandons me in a rush and never offers a credible explanation for it? I don't think I deserved that kind of treatment. Keep in mind this was only our second date. She did say outside her car that I could kiss her, but she gave me her cheek as she said it. The change in her demeanor was drastic from even just an hour earlier.

 

The next time we went out was on New Years and I suspect she accepted my invitation only after her first choice (and second choice?) plans fell through because she said she needed a couple days to check with other people first. Then when she got back to me, she didn't accept my invite with any sort of anticipation or alacrity, she said something close to, "Sure let's go out, we shouldn't be alone on New Years."

 

We seemed to be having a good time that night but then again the mysterious text messages started coming in and she suddenly wanted to leave. "I had work earlier today, I have low blood sugar and am tired," she explained. It took me a little while to remember where I parked my car (which was rather embarrassing) and she told me, "You took so long, I thought you had left me here alone." I made light of it and said, "I'm sorry, I forgot where I parked. A man can get a bit discombobulated when he's having a good time with a beautiful woman." She ignored my compliment and replied, "Well, it's happened to me before." I found that to be a very interesting admission. I started thinking to myself, "What the heck did she do on a date that would have a guy just drive off without her?"

 

As we drove back to her place, I tried to muster up the courage to plant a kiss on her, however the circumstances and the conversation on the way back were not very conducive for it. She asked me about my past relationships. She talked about her past relationships and how she's bad at them. She asked me if I do online dating. She went on and on about her exes and how "in love" she had been with one of them. She glowingly described various male friends of her's and talked about how too many men distrust her and get jealous of the time she spends with them. She told me that she would prefer to find a man from her own community (meaning country of origin), but that sometimes it doesn't work out that way. While she did remain in my car longer than I expected upon reaching her place, and a more skilled and experienced dater would have found a way to segue the conversation into something that would have facilitated a New Years kiss (that's on me again and I've been kicking myself ever since about it), she didn't help matters with her conversational topics of choice.

 

We had one dinner after that (following multiple rejections) and it was more of the same in terms of conversing about guys in her life, including that same ex-boyfriend with whom she was so in love. She referred to me as her friend a few times too, which often spells doom. I pushed myself to kiss her at the end of this outing, just in case she had doubts of my interest, but it was a brief lip tap, not because she recoiled, but because it was too forced, I was nervous, we were double-parked on a narrow street, and someone was trying to pass. I haven't seen her since.

 

I remain physically attracted to her. I wish I would have the opportunity to finish what I consider the unfinished business of consummating what I could have likely had with better timing and game. Maybe this describes lust and a misplaced sense of entitlement more than genuine attraction. I knew even from the start that we're two very different people, which is in part why I didn't show much interest in the pre-date phase early going when she was pursuing me hard with a torrent of giddy text messages.

 

Unlike with one of the girls who very recently decided to get back into my life (I'll call her Person A), there was never a time where our interest levels in each other overlapped, except maybe for about an hour or so on that second date when she talked about sex and appeared to be coming onto me.

 

With Person A, I felt an instant spark, she felt an instant spark, and we both just knew that there was a mutual attraction and interest. I was happier than I had been in literally a decade. Whenever she'd call me, text me, Facebook me, ask me out, I felt like I had won the lottery. I never had that feeling with my current fixation. There were also seldom any difficulties getting together with Person A. We'd see each other at least twice a week, sometimes three and four times a week, sometimes on consecutive days. After a date ended, we'd talk some more, into the wee hours of the morning. For awhile, it was wonderful. I never had that kind of rapport with this current woman. She had to force things in the beginning, and I've been forcing them ever since.

 

"There are many fish in the sea." Rationally, I know that, so why can't my emotions let this go? Why am I so insistent on jamming the triangular peg into the circular hole? She doesn't want to date me. She said so explicitly. Her actions show that she doesn't really want me as a friend either. Why can't I accept this? Why must I be so obdurate? What is it that I really want? I gave my mountain example yesterday, and there's definitely a lot of truth to that, but I do have other realizable opportunities with women. It's not as though she's the only one.

 

Last night, I went to a female friend's birthday gathering. There were eight of us in total: six women, two guys. Two of the women there, including my friend who I think may want to be more than friends, flirted with me quite a bit. People were suggesting that we get together because we're both frustrated in our searches for a companion. We both get along well, we share a lot of common interests and values. She's intelligent and she's attractive. Lately she's been involving me in her daily life. But I'm not feeling anything deeper toward her. I just like her as a friend. I have similar situations with five other women. They all seem open to dating me, they claim to be shocked that I don't have anyone, they flirt with me. One of them whom I already rejected for dating exhorted me to consider casual sex (she probably meant with her). This same woman also flat out called me "hot." Another one invited me to accompany her on a vacation. Another half-jokingly said that she would have liked if her friend had invited me into her studio apartment the other night because even though the bed takes up most of the space, it would have been fun to have me in it with them.

 

In short, it's not as though I don't receive any female attention. But it's mostly from women I either don't consider attractive and/or only see as friends. Even if they pursued me more aggressively, I still don't think I would be interested in any of them. And yet they're intelligent, quality people which I claim to want in a relationship. So what is wrong with me? Why am I pining away for someone who isn't a good match for me, and who doesn't want me, when there are others who would be good matches and who might want me? Maybe I'm shallow and primarily care about physical appearance? Perhaps I have some kind of untapped fetish for flighty party women, and that's not a group I have in abundant supply? (In fairness to her, she's also career-oriented on weekdays, holding a good job in the finance industry). She's physically attractive, but not gorgeous. Her face looks worn without makeup, giving her the appearance and countenance of someone older than her 32 years of age. My interest in her just does not seem rooted in sound logic, yet it definitely persists and continues to consume me.

[Divasu]

For example, as I alluded to earlier, that second date where she told me how much she loves sex, where she stared longingly into my eyes, where she held my hands, I most certainly would have made a move on her. I was ready for it. But then she got that suspicious text message and abruptly terminated our evening.

We seemed to be having a good time that night but then again the mysterious text messages started coming in and she suddenly wanted to leave.

I tried asking her out again and she actually responded excitedly, claiming that we'd arrange to do something together but that she was busy on the particular days I suggested. She explained to me in detail why she was occupied on those days.

I waited two more weeks and then tried yet again. She turned me down, claiming she's going through a lot right now and can't make any plans.

I didn't read your entire thread, but I picked out a few odd patterns. Each date (it seems) you've been on, she'll receive a text message and then abruptly end your date to leave.

 

She behaves hesitantly when you ask her out.

 

So, try to avoid placing weight on 'reading in between the lines', but rather, her actions. Leaving early during dates, turning you down for dates. Blah.

[Jefezen]

I agree, Divasu, actions portend more than mere words. I think she lost interest in me very early on, probably after the first date, or maybe a week after it due to my non-responsiveness with her at the beginning of our interaction. Sometimes there'd be good chemistry between us the few times I could get her to go out with me, but I may have misconstrued her good cheer as a generic chirpy and flirtatious personality that she might display with everyone.

 

I apologize for my long posts. Sometimes I find catharsis in just spilling everything out. The long reflective entries might be more for myself than for others who probably would rather not muddle through so much detail about someone they don't even know.

[Divasu]

I agree, Divasu, actions portend more than mere words. I think she lost interest in me very early on, probably after the first date, or maybe a week after it due to my non-responsiveness with her at the beginning of our interaction. Sometimes there'd be good chemistry between us the few times I could get her to go out with me, but I may have misconstrued her good cheer as a generic chirpy and flirtatious personality that she might display with everyone.

 

I apologize for my long posts. Sometimes I find catharsis in just spilling everything out. The long reflective entries might be more for myself than for others who probably would rather not muddle through so much detail about someone they don't even know.

 

Non-responsiveness can certainly put a damper on things for many reasons. She may have interpreted it negatively. Don't worry about the long posts here, if it helps, all the better.

[mexcity]

Jefezen,

 

Just out of curiosity, what nationality is this girl?

[Sunshine87]

Non-responsiveness can certainly put a damper on things for many reasons. She may have interpreted it negatively. Don't worry about the long posts here, if it helps, all the better.

 

Sure it can- only if it the guy comes across as uninterested which the OP didn't.

 

I've come across several posts on LS that propose guys "play it cool". He played it cool but his actions clearly showed interest.

 

I understand that the OP is looking for closure but Im struggling to accept that he did something wrong.

 

Life is simple- if a woman is really interested in you, she is unlikely

to be put off because the man is taking things slow. If anything, it might pique her interest.....at least it would pique mine.

 

I'll respond to OP soon.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Sunshine87

[Jefezen]

Jefezen,

 

Just out of curiosity, what nationality is this girl?

 

She's Turkish.

[Jefezen]

Sure it can- only if it the guy comes across as uninterested which the OP didn't.

 

I did come across as uninterested during the time period when she pursued me the hardest. We met at a Halloween party. I was alone, she was alone. She walked right up to me, said I looked handsome, and stayed by my side the rest of the night. We chatted, we danced, we had a good time. She asked if she could pose for pictures with me. I said sure.

 

I was still hung up over my previous obsession and didn't show nearly as much enthusiasm in her as she displayed in me. Before we departed, she invited me to ask her out to the movies or contact her whenever I'm bored. I texted her an hour later to see if she got home safely. She said yes, and thanked me for being a gentleman. I left it at that and went back to stewing over my previous obsession at the time.

 

Three days later, my current fixation texted me and we conversed back and forth for about a couple hours. I actually tried to end the exchange multiple times because I wasn't that interested in talking to her, but she persisted with a lot of mirth, and I went along with it.

 

About five days after that she contacted me again, asking how I was doing, what I was up to, whether I have any pets, various random questions. I told her I was busy at that moment and she said something along the lines of, "Oh okay, nevermind, sorry!"

 

I got back to her the next day apologizing for not being able to talk to her the previous night. She seemed elated to hear from me and we texted back and forth awhile. She talked about maybe the two of us joining various winter groups that go on overnight ski trips. She floated all kinds of ideas for how we could socialize together. As the conversation neared a close, she asked me out to dinner for a specific night. I declined because I was embarking on a trip a couple days prior to the day she had selected. She seemed disappointed, but rather than leave it there, I suggested we get together the night before I leave. She told me she really wanted to see the most recent James Bond movie, so we agreed to meet at the theater.

 

After the movie ended, we chatted at Starbucks. She did most of the talking, coming across a bit nervous, which surprised me given how outgoing and confident she seemed the night I had first met her. I was for the most part nonchalant because I still didn't have much interest in her at this point. Her roommate texted her to say that she'd been locked out of their apartment, and even though Starbucks was about to close, my current fixation decided to stay with me anyway, recommending that her roommate hang out at the neighbor's place for awhile. It was a cold night, but we braved it anyway and walked back and forth in front of the movie theater talking about our respective interests and backgrounds. As I customarily do, I texted her later that night to see if she got home alright. She said she did, thanked me for a fun evening, and apologized for talking so much. She promised that next time she'd give me more of a chance to express myself.

 

The next morning I flew from the east coast all the way to Hawaii. The more I thought about her, the more I started to think I should pursue her. I contacted her from where I was vacationing and we had a relatively brief text conversation. She didn't seem quite as giddy as usual, but she remained polite. I started another conversation a few days after that, and it was the same thing. She responded politely, but I didn't sense much in the way of enthusiasm. At that point I went totally silent for two weeks, then reached out again, asking her out to that masquerade party where she abruptly abandoned me after receiving the mysterious text message. You know the rest of the story in painstaking detail from there.

 

In summary, I think I probably did come across as too uninterested in the beginning. I left her doing the bulk of the initiating and pursuing. The strange thing is that literally within a few days of my finally starting to reciprocate and initiate, she seemed to cool down with me. As I've stated previously, she forced things those first couple weeks, and I've been forcing them ever since.

 

I don't know what possibly could have happened between my trip to Hawaii right after that first movie date (where she felt she failed and apologized to me for it!) and my return home. Only once did she ever initiate a conversation with me after my trip, and it came the night after I finally kissed her on our fourth outing (the lame lip tap); she sent me a quick note about spotting a mutual friend at a party.

 

I've come across several posts on LS that propose guys "play it cool". He played it cool but his actions clearly showed interest.

 

But was it too little too late? Did I need to force some kind of intimacy on the second date? Certainly by the third one when I had her all to myself on New Years I should have done something. She sat alone with me in my car for almost two hours! I just felt too shy and intimidated, plus the conversation wasn't conducive for it, with her going on and on about her exes, male friends, and whether I've tried online dating.

 

I understand that the OP is looking for closure but Im struggling to accept that he did something wrong.

 

Part of me is looking for closure, part of me is unrealistically hoping that I can somehow turn this around with enough skill and patience. I know there's another guy on her radar now, but I honestly don't make too much of that because by her own admission she's bad at relationships and seems to pursue a plethora of men. She talked about that a lot with me. My own experience also tells me that she can go from hot to cold on someone in a nanosecond. This guy she's gone out with twice might be yesterday's news already for all I know.

 

On our outings together, she'd tell me about the various guys she finds attractive, the assorted men who find her attractive, how she approaches men she finds handsome at coffee shops, at work, at other venues, how she'd love to get with some of them, if not for certain flaws that turned her off. From looking at her Facebook page, it's also evident that she goes clubbing quite often, or at least did in the recent past. Now apparently she's giving online dating a try.

 

Life is simple- if a woman is really interested in you, she is unlikely

to be put off because the man is taking things slow. If anything, it might pique her interest.....at least it would pique mine.

 

I'll respond to OP soon.

 

As Stopper said, "women have so many options and men have none." I didn't immediately reciprocate her interest. I made no effort to pursue intimacy despite her talking about how much she loves sex. In my defense, I'll remind this community again that had she not abandoned me within an hour of saying that, I would have done something. The point is when I didn't give her what she wanted when she wanted it, she checked out on me and decided to pursue someone else. She's got so many men available to her, she probably figured, "To hell with this slow poke, onto No. 418."

 

The one amendment I'd make to Stopper's comment is that at least in my case, I actually do have other options. There are several women who've either made their interest in me known (four fit in that category) or seem to be very receptive (two fit in that category). Plus there are two others who rejected me in the past (for whom I was far more miserable than I am now), suddenly back on the canvas, albeit guardedly.

 

I'm just not romantically attracted to any of them. I enjoy spending time with these women. I'm flattered by their interest and attention. They provide momentary respites from my depression and help boost my confidence at a time when I'm disconsolate. But I still seem to want this one woman who just rejected me. It's utterly illogical. I can see her manifold flaws and don't seem to care. I want another chance with her in spite of them, so I conveniently latch onto anything that could be remotely favorable to my quixotic quest, such as her explanation of losing interest in me, in part, out of fear that my wanting to make plans with her may not continue.

 

I lack the mental discipline to ever completely capitulate on anything.

[Jefezen]

You keep wanting to "salvage this" believing you didn't come on strong enough. But if she really felt chemistry with you she would have jump started it herself.

She did jump start it herself. That's one of the main reasons I'm finding it difficult to give up on her. This isn't one of those scenarios where a guy asks out a girl who never showed interest in him, the girl says no, and the guy keeps trying thinking that magically she'll suddenly want him. This girl pursued me. She introduced herself. She asked me to dance. She asked me for my number. She initiated the first few rounds of text conversations. She first suggested making joint plans. She invited me to ask her out, and when I didn't, asked me out. She apologized for feeling nervous and possibly making a bad first impression. She's the one who first hugged me, first kissed me (on the cheek, not much, I know), first held my hands. She's the one who first brought up a love for sex.

 

By the time I started taking the lead, or attempting to, her interest had significantly waned and she no longer tried to pursue me whatsoever. If I didn't contact her, I never heard from her. It became increasingly difficult to build any kind of momentum because too much time would elapse between outings due to her claims of being busy or wanting to hang out with other friends (she said she has tons of them, which I believe).

 

I'm sorry fella, but this one isn't worth salvaging. Move onto the next one.

Logically, I know you're right. I think the difficulty is that she definitely had interest in me and I can't figure out why it would vanish so rapidly. I'm hoping that because she liked me at one point, she could like me again in the future. That seems more feasible than a scenario where the woman never wanted the guy at all.

 

Btw, I'm an immigrant, for curiosities sake: what turns your crank about them?

I tend to find foreign women, particularly of European, central Asian, African, and Latin American extraction to be more traditionally feminine than their American counterparts, both in terms of personality and physical presentation. Intellectually, I find it more interesting to get acquainted with people from other backgrounds and cultures. I like to learn and experience their customs. I'm also drawn to exotic eyes and hair.

 

Its not that while "Victorian" thing where you believe foreign women are more moral girls than American ones, is it? I get hit on by men that kind of romanticize foreign women like that...

No, not at all. When I described myself as Victorian earlier I meant more in how I treat other women. I'm straight out of a Jane Austen novel or English countryside film with respect to how I dress and interact with members of the opposite sex. This works out quite well for me in the beginning. I actually get women approaching me, instead of my having to approach them. But I think they quickly tire of that routine and want to see a less genteel, more passionate and jocose, rough-hewn side. I actually do have those latter elements to my personality, it just takes me four or five dates before I'm comfortable enough to show them, and unfortunately for me, I don't typically get that chance, hence my frustration with this woman. She's dropping me right when I'm finally getting comfortable enough to be playful.

 

To address your question of morality, I do not think foreign women subscribe to moral behavior any more than American women. Commenting anecdotally, I've actually found the opposite to be true, at least in the realm of sexuality.

[Jefezen]

She's from Istanbul.

 

AtheistScholar, as a fellow (presumably secular by your handle, as she is) Turk do you have any insight into my situation? Perhaps there's something in Turkish culture that I may be missing with respect to courtship and rejection?

[Jefezen]

I went to a party tonight and finally saw my obsession in person for the first time since January. She showed up alone and immediately walked over to me. She was polite, but didn't seem particularly happy to see me. We hugged and engaged in some vapid chitchat. I had to lead most of the conversation because her eyes seemed to be drifting elsewhere. She talked a bit about her newest date, saying it's still early, and that she doesn't know where it's headed. She told me he's an American guy, and that so far, so good. She also randomly said she'd like to move in with a boyfriend whenever the opportunity presents itself. I couldn't tell if she was trying to make me jealous or simply didn't care about my feelings. She looked very attractive, which made it somewhat difficult on me to see her after all this time. I wanted to talk to her about how I feel, how I still wish she'd give me a chance to date her despite the presence of this other guy in her life, but a loud, crowded party didn't seem like the right atmosphere for it, and I don't think she'd be receptive to my pleas anyway.

 

The good thing is that while she struggled to find anyone to talk to or socialize with, I had no problem at all going up to women and engaging them in animated discussions. In fact, I met five different girls, all attractive, three of whom seemed interested in me at least in the early going. I actually left the party with two of them and we had a good time at a nearby bar. We exchanged information and seemed to hit it off. The one I spent the most time with looks sort of like Jennifer Aniston and she's also the same religion as me, which helps (Jewish). I was surprised by how outgoing I was with her. I think all the alcohol I consumed may have helped in that department.

 

At the end of the night, I texted the girl I'm infatuated with, asking if she had left already. She quickly texted back saying that she left before 10 (I didn't leave until 1:30) and was already in bed drinking tea and reading a book. She said it was nice seeing me and that she hoped I was having fun. I jokingly told her she could have at least said goodbye before leaving. She replied, "It was crowded and I didn't want to interrupt."

 

Where I go from here, I don't know. I'm proud of myself that I made the acquaintance of so many other attractive women tonight and seemed to do well with all of them, especially the Jennifer Aniston lookalike. But for whatever reason, I'm still very much attracted to the woman who rejected me and refuses to see me. I'm not sure why I care so much. She's definitely pretty, but so too are these other women I met who I seem to have so much more in common with, plus I sense that all of them are available, whereas the one I've been discussing in this thread seems to be interested in someone else. Is it a matter of just wanting what I can't have? Is it about not wanting to lose? It was a chore maintaining a conversation with her tonight, I didn't particularly enjoy her company in all honesty, and yet I still wish I could have her. Perhaps it's lust? I'm disappointed in myself for thinking I did a good job of potentially making her jealous with my relative success tonight, when instead, I should be happy with that success in and of itself.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Jefezen

[BluEyeL]

You want what you can't have. If you had her, you might not want her anymore. Just move on to one of the other ladies. You can continue to think about your crush, but being busy with other girls will help her image fade.

[Jefezen]

She just did something tonight that really ticked me off. She told me at the party the other night that she's been going through a lot and having a hard time. So today I had a fruit basket professionally delivered to her work with an uplifting message in her native language. In deference to her privacy, I instructed the delivery people to conceal the message in an envelope to prevent any prying co-workers who might notice to not know who sent it.

 

She texted me in the evening saying, "Hi. I got the fruit basket today. You did not have to send that but thank you. It is kind of you." I replied, "I know I didn't, I just wanted to try and brighten your day a little. I hope everything is okay." Within two hours, she not only defriended me on Facebook, she blocked me. I know this as a fact. I checked by logging into my business Facebook page (which she doesn't know exists). She turns up when I search for her there but not when I look for her on my personal Facebook page. She also doesn't appear on any of our mutual friends' lists when I look her up on my page, yet appears on other people's friends' lists when on my business Facebook page.

 

I feel like this is a total overreaction on her part. If my gift made her uncomfortable, or if she didn't want me checking in on whether she's okay, why did she pretend to appreciate it and thank me? Why couldn't she have just been honest and said, "I'd rather you not send me anything in the future?" I would have replied, "Okay, understood," and that would have been the end of it. Instead, she makes a total clean break? It's not as though I was annoying her with daily text messages, phone calls, and requests to go out with her. To the contrary, I'd go weeks, one time as long as five weeks, without contacting her at all. And the few times I did text her, I kept the conversations very short. Even when I saw her at the party the other night I was completely respectful and I did not monopolize her time. I went off and met other people, had my own fun.

 

On the one hand I'm very angry and disappointed that she would do something this extreme with nary an explanation. On the other hand, it's also somewhat liberating because now the door isn't only 99.5% shut (which I already knew), it's 100% shut. I can turn the proverbial page without the nagging "what ifs" and pursue some of these new women, many of whom seem potentially interested in me. I just hope this one doesn't badmouth me behind my back to our mutual friends and acquaintances. Our social circles overlap.

[JOYTOME]

I think you're deeply infatuated and her lack of interest is fuelling your infatuation, and perhaps, her mystique. Infatuation at the end of it all is superficial so that's good for you ie you're not genuinely emotionally attached to her.

 

 

 

 

 

I went to a party tonight and finally saw my obsession in person for the first time since January. She showed up alone and immediately walked over to me. She was polite, but didn't seem particularly happy to see me. We hugged and engaged in some vapid chitchat. I had to lead most of the conversation because her eyes seemed to be drifting elsewhere. She talked a bit about her newest date, saying it's still early, and that she doesn't know where it's headed. She told me he's an American guy, and that so far, so good. She also randomly said she'd like to move in with a boyfriend whenever the opportunity presents itself. I couldn't tell if she was trying to make me jealous or simply didn't care about my feelings. She looked very attractive, which made it somewhat difficult on me to see her after all this time. I wanted to talk to her about how I feel, how I still wish she'd give me a chance to date her despite the presence of this other guy in her life, but a loud, crowded party didn't seem like the right atmosphere for it, and I don't think she'd be receptive to my pleas anyway.

 

The good thing is that while she struggled to find anyone to talk to or socialize with, I had no problem at all going up to women and engaging them in animated discussions. In fact, I met five different girls, all attractive, three of whom seemed interested in me at least in the early going. I actually left the party with two of them and we had a good time at a nearby bar. We exchanged information and seemed to hit it off. The one I spent the most time with looks sort of like Jennifer Aniston and she's also the same religion as me, which helps (Jewish). I was surprised by how outgoing I was with her. I think all the alcohol I consumed may have helped in that department.

 

At the end of the night, I texted the girl I'm infatuated with, asking if she had left already. She quickly texted back saying that she left before 10 (I didn't leave until 1:30) and was already in bed drinking tea and reading a book. She said it was nice seeing me and that she hoped I was having fun. I jokingly told her she could have at least said goodbye before leaving. She replied, "It was crowded and I didn't want to interrupt."

 

Where I go from here, I don't know. I'm proud of myself that I made the acquaintance of so many other attractive women tonight and seemed to do well with all of them, especially the Jennifer Aniston lookalike. But for whatever reason, I'm still very much attracted to the woman who rejected me and refuses to see me. I'm not sure why I care so much. She's definitely pretty, but so too are these other women I met who I seem to have so much more in common with, plus I sense that all of them are available, whereas the one I've been discussing in this thread seems to be interested in someone else. Is it a matter of just wanting what I can't have? Is it about not wanting to lose? It was a chore maintaining a conversation with her tonight, I didn't particularly enjoy her company in all honesty, and yet I still wish I could have her. Perhaps it's lust? I'm disappointed in myself for thinking I did a good job of potentially making her jealous with my relative success tonight, when instead, I should be happy with that success in and of itself.

[JOYTOME]

Hello, really sorry to learn about your confusion and anger. It's the height of cowardice, immaturity and ill-manners when someone p, for no apparent reason and with no explanation, randomly deletes a friend off blackberry messenger, Facebook etc.

You sent her a basket of fruits and she responds this way? So bitchy...mind my language. The least she could have done was have a frank chat with you if the basket of flowers, thoughtful gift somehow managed to offend her. In a way, I'm happy it happened so you can now believe that your indifference towards her the first few weeks has and had nothing to do with her present coldness towards you. You blamed yourself incessantly as if your deeds somehow warranted such behaviour. Now she's done something bizarre and I think this clears or should clear up all doubts!

She's no good and you haven't lost out on anything, except drama.

 

She just did something tonight that really ticked me off. She told me at the party the other night that she's been going through a lot and having a hard time. So today I had a fruit basket professionally delivered to her work with an uplifting message in her native language. In deference to her privacy, I instructed the delivery people to conceal the message in an envelope to prevent any prying co-workers who might notice to not know who sent it.

 

She texted me in the evening saying, "Hi. I got the fruit basket today. You did not have to send that but thank you. It is kind of you." I replied, "I know I didn't, I just wanted to try and brighten your day a little. I hope everything is okay." Within two hours, she not only defriended me on Facebook, she blocked me. I know this as a fact. I checked by logging into my business Facebook page (which she doesn't know exists). She turns up when I search for her there but not when I look for her on my personal Facebook page. She also doesn't appear on any of our mutual friends' lists when I look her up on my page, yet appears on other people's friends' lists when on my business Facebook page.

 

I feel like this is a total overreaction on her part. If my gift made her uncomfortable, or if she didn't want me checking in on whether she's okay, why did she pretend to appreciate it and thank me? Why couldn't she have just been honest and said, "I'd rather you not send me anything in the future?" I would have replied, "Okay, understood," and that would have been the end of it. Instead, she makes a total clean break? It's not as though I was annoying her with daily text messages, phone calls, and requests to go out with her. To the contrary, I'd go weeks, one time as long as five weeks, without contacting her at all. And the few times I did text her, I kept the conversations very short. Even when I saw her at the party the other night I was completely respectful and I did not monopolize her time. I went off and met other people, had my own fun.

 

On the one hand I'm very angry and disappointed that she would do something this extreme with nary an explanation. On the other hand, it's also somewhat liberating because now the door isn't only 99.5% shut (which I already knew), it's 100% shut. I can turn the proverbial page without the nagging "what ifs" and pursue some of these new women, many of whom seem potentially interested in me. I just hope this one doesn't badmouth me behind my back to our mutual friends and acquaintances. Our social circles overlap.

Edited April 30, 2013 by JOYTOME

[Jefezen]

At my somewhat restrained, but persistent, coaxing, she provided via text message the following vague explanation for blocking me on Facebook after receiving the fruit basket:

 

"Do not think about things like that too much. I don't want to be facebook friends. That's it. Please respect. Do not try to understand. It won't make sense. Thanks again for the fruit basket. Good night."

 

What the heck is going on? My primary theory is that she's uncomfortable with my liking her, senses my infatuation, and wishes I'd just leave her alone. She may think I'm exhibiting early stalker tendencies because I've thus far refused to completely capitulate and back down. Seeing each other in person for the first time in months, followed by the gift of a fruit basket (I honestly send fruit baskets to lots of people), may have frightened her into thinking I'm trying to buy her attention and affection, which in an indirect way, I may have been doing. My real goal out of it was to make sure she knows I'm still interested in her, still care about her, despite the presence of this other guy she's barely started dating, and despite however much fun she may have perceived I was having with other women in front of her.

 

My second theory, which involves some wishful thinking, is that she's afraid I'm too good to be true and that we wouldn't last. I've been nothing but a total gentleman with her. She's said so multiple times. She hasn't been in successful long-term relationships. When she rejected me the most recent time, she said she thought that while I'm interested in getting to know her now, that may not continue, so she got scared and pulled back. She also expressed insecurity over my not immediately involving her in my daily life, and over my initial indifference to her the first few weeks after she first approached and asked me out.

 

Now she's saying I would not understand her reasons for blocking me on Facebook, which suggests something more complicated than a: "you creep me out, leave me alone." What if it has more to do with her finding it difficult to see all my pictures with various women that I frequently post, and less to do with my scaring her away? The few times we interact, she always makes a point of saying, "I look at your Facebook updates, you get out a lot, I see you're having fun." (Then again, the "you creep me out, leave me alone" might be her real message and she's not putting it in those words out of fear that anything too strongly-worded might send me over the edge).

 

Her Facebook page is quite sparse, by comparison. I can't see it anymore now that she blocked me obviously, but she wasn't the type to ever add much of anything to it: almost no pictures, very few status updates, nothing really interesting. Even for friends, her privacy settings were as close to the maximum as it gets. So what would she really be blocking me from seeing, except maybe the identity of the guy she's dating if she wants to add him, or perhaps events she plans to attend which can be read in the Recent Activity section?

 

Either way, I've been in overdrive now trying to atone for my early nonchalance with her. I've explained how I'm shy in the beginning and that it takes a little time for me to open up. I've all but flat out said: "I want you." I've repeatedly asked her out. I thought sending her a fruit basket with a nice uplifting message would be another way to show interest in her as a person, not just as a romantic target, and empathy for her job-related stress. I've also tried to dispel any notions that my being seen with other women, or that my early indifference would at all be indicative of a plan to drop her in the near future (again, the one fear she somewhat hinted at with me when first explaining why she doesn't consider us a good match).

 

I think I've done almost everything I can do except confront her very directly and quite literally about the fears she's articulated. That's not something I can do now without pushing her even more away than she already is from me. It took a few attempts with unanswered text messages (about four over two days) and unanswered phone calls (two in two days) just to get that one belated text message out of her that I quoted above. Whether it's fear and revulsion motivating her to push me away, or some psychological defeatist reluctance to accept that a person she herself once pursued quite avidly (that would be) wants to give things a try, I think I need to lay low now. I'm at a point where any imminent further action I take would likely make her so uncomfortable and terrified of me, I'd just be making things worse than I already have after delivery of the fruit basket. She could be working on blocking my number now too, for all I know.

 

I'm hoping I can just get over her already and stop caring. That would be the best solution. These attachments and infatuations I get with people are very unhealthy. I've had them three times before, and I do eventually recover from them, albeit only after extremely long periods of time. I always end up making things worse in each and every instance, to the point where they cut off all ties with me. It's happening again now. I don't think I've been nearly as bad this time around with respect to potentially offensive behavior as in the previous instances, but I still need improvement.

 

I need to realize that her blocking me on Facebook may be a blessing in disguise. I had been getting into the habit of checking her page 10+ times a day even though she only adds something maybe once a month. I had also been checking how often she logs into Facebook because that would give me an idea as to whether she was out late, up late, asleep, etc. I'd feel good when I saw she had logged in at 7am because that probably meant she hadn't been out late the previous night. I'd feel nervous when I saw she hadn't logged in for a whole bunch of hours in the evening because that indicated the opposite. It was obsessive and ultimately a waste of time. I think I did it more to feel connected in some way. While I couldn't let myself talk to her as often as I wanted, at least by seeing her name on the Facebook log and how many minutes or hours ago she had logged in, there was a connection there, however slight. Just by virtue of seeing something, anything, active with her name next to it was all I had to go on until the next time I'd attempt a 5 minute text conversation (weeks apart).

 

The gifting of a fruit basket is very apropos.

[BluEyeL]

She thinks you are stalking her. She doesn't think it's too good to be true.

[BoneyHadger]

Honestly, why did you send her that basket? It was wayyyyy over the top. She wasn't giving you time of the day before, you wanted to change her mind with a lavish gift?

 

BTW your entire convo from first post seemed very friendly and just that. You seemed to play it incredibly safe and be afraid of accidentally rocking the boat. Well, you did with that basket, but it was too late and not taken as you hoped for.

[Jefezen]

Honestly, why did you send her that basket? It was wayyyyy over the top. She wasn't giving you time of the day before, you wanted to change her mind with a lavish gift?

I had just seen her in person a couple days earlier. She seemed stressed out over work and her life in general. I thought if I sent her a gift with an uplifting message she might think, "Wow, that's kind of him to be thinking of my well-being. The guy I'm dating now doesn't do that. It's nice to be in someone's thoughts. I guess he still likes me too even though I rejected him not too long ago. Maybe I should reconsider being with him after all."

 

Also, I honestly do this kind of thing in general with platonic friends too. I'm a very generous person that way. If I see someone upset, I send them a little pick-me-up. It doesn't have to be a special occasion. I intentionally avoided flowers because I thought that would be considered too romantic. Fruit seemed like a benign choice to me.

 

Instead, as Blue notes, it came across as stalkerish. Though she twice thanked me for the gift in a literal sense, I suspect she did that more out of fear of what an angry reaction would elicit from me. She sees I'm not taking no for an answer. She sees I'm getting increasingly bold in my actions (I wasn't assertive enough early on) and this probably scares her. She sees I'm upset about her blocking me on Facebook to the point that I demanded, albeit in polite terms, some kind of explanatory answer.

 

In my defense, what did sitting back accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Plus when I recently saw her in person, I was very non-threatening, and closer to what you read in my first post. I didn't mention the rejection at all, nor did I stay with her the entire time. I went off and talked to other girls. She departed without saying goodbye.

 

It seems fairly clear that I had already lost her well before I sent the fruit basket. Wouldn't you agree that these desperation measures of mine are the basketball equivalent of committing intentional fouls when you're down 8 points with 30 seconds remaining? From the conversation on the first post, she made her decision to no longer pursue me romantically as far back as February when she said she turned down my Valentines Day invitation because "it wouldn't be true." She'd been pulling away since late January. I just didn't force the issue until the last couple weeks.

[BoneyHadger]

Maybe I should reconsider being with him after all.

 

AHA! So you indeed wanted her to change her mind.

 

But I'd say yes, you were hosed before the "basket of death", it just dug you deeper. Probably hosed even before the conversation in OP. Doesn't seem to me that she was really excited about you in the way she seems to be about the other guy - hence my "playing it safe" and "rocking the boat" comments.

[Jefezen]

AHA! So you indeed wanted her to change her mind.

Of course I did, or at the very least I wanted her to think how nice I am to still care about her despite rejecting me. Whether it made her reconsider me as a potential boyfriend, or even just finally get closer to me as a platonic friend (since January, she never initiates contact whatsoever), I thought it was worth the gamble. I figured what do I really have to lose? She already rejected me. She already refused to go out with me even just as a friend for coffee. She never initiates contact. She was cold, distant, and somewhat rude when we finally saw each other in person again after several months. It wasn't as though I sent her flowers, or lingerie, or an "I love you" message. I kept it friendly and upbeat.

 

But I'd say yes, you were hosed before the "basket of death", it just dug you deeper. Probably hosed even before the conversation in OP. Doesn't seem to me that she was really excited about you in the way she seems to be about the other guy - hence my "playing it safe" and "rocking the boat" comments.

I think that's why I'm having such a hard time. She was really into me those first couple weeks and I blew it. I was too damn slow. And now that I'm finally trying to be assertive and bold, it's too little, too late.

 

In general, I should trust my intuition because it's generally right. I could sense as far back as mid-December, after our first date, that she wasn't as interested anymore. I had to prompt everything after the first couple weeks, and then it got worse after the third date when she'd say no to me half the time, even worse after the fourth date when it was always a no and I went quiet for 5 weeks, even worse after the first post conversation when she finally admitted to not being interested in me anymore, even worse at the party last weekend when she was cold and distant, and even worse now after the fruit basket Hail Mary.

 

I regret the basket because now I can't even Facebook stalk her anymore or get away with occasional hello, how are you text messages (not that those ever led to much more than a delayed, "I'm fine, thank you for checking. Goodnight" reply). If I'm going to reach out to her again, I need to allow some significant time to elapse. She's probably scared of me and what I might try next. I have to somehow force myself to lay low. Maybe in a few weeks I could try just a text message to test the proverbial waters. If I ever got super desperate (which I hope I won't), we share a few mutual acquaintances who could be employed as go-betweens. There certainly won't be anymore gifts, and in my head, I know it's over, even if my heart refuses to admit it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Jefezen

[BoneyHadger]

I figured what do I really have to lose?

 

Time you could otherwise spend on a new one, who might actually be interested.

 

She was really into me those first couple weeks and I blew it. I was too damn slow.

 

Looks like you know your problem.

 

But please be faster with a new one and not go back to this one, she already has her mind made up, you're pretty much wasting time.

[Jefezen]

Looks like you know your problem.

 

I don't completely know how to alleviate it. I came on slow with her for two reasons: first, I was obsessed with someone else I had failed with and also alienated at the time, and second, in the past I had failed by coming across as too interested, as wanting too much, too soon. I'd scare people away with my intensity. So then I developed a new strategy of being intentionally nonchalant, and that worked with some people, failed with others.

 

Even with this one, it's a mixed bag because on the one hand she claims I didn't involve her in my life enough, yet in the same conversation she said she "got scared" and "took a step back" because I was making too many plans and she wasn't sure I'd maintain my interest. Well, which is it? Do you want me to involve you and make plans or not? It can't be both.

 

I regret not kissing her when I had the chance on New Years, yet I was clearly only a distant choice that night because it took her two days to get back to me and she even admitted upfront that she wanted to check with someone else first before getting back to me. And when she did get back to me, her acceptance was very tepid: "Sure. We shouldn't be alone on New Years."

 

I should have dropped her before then too. As I've said in earlier posts, she abruptly ditched me on our very second date after receiving a mysterious unexplained text message. I think she had another guy that night. Even if she didn't, that was an extremely rude thing to do and most guys wouldn't have tolerated it.

 

It's not as though she's some great, perfect woman. And though she's more attractive than most of the women who express interest in me, she's not breathtakingly gorgeous. But because she once wanted me, even if only for a couple weeks at the very beginning, I still want her. It's stupid.

 

But please be faster with a new one and not go back to this one, she already has her mind made up, you're pretty much wasting time.

 

Logically, I know you're right. I just can't help but wonder what if I had done things differently, especially in the beginning. This had been a lost cause for awhile, everyone told me so, but not all the nails were in the coffin quite yet and now they basically are; I don't think there's any coming back from a Facebook block. That's a pretty serious step. At best, she'll indulge the occasional text message with a perfunctory response if I wait awhile for her to calm down before sending one. And what exactly will that do for me? Next to nothing.

 

I can probably forget about platonic friendship too. She claimed to be interested in that when we had our discussion (first post) but I think she was lying to me then, just as she's lying to me now when she thanks me for the fruit basket. Had she truly been willing to be my friend, she would have started conversations with me (happened only once after November, and never after January), she would have agreed to go out with me for something casual (consistently turned me down, even just for lunches), she wouldn't try to be brief with me 99% of the time when I attempt to reach out. Her words don't match her actions.

 

She's probably been thinking since back in December, and at least since late January, "Why can't this guy take a hint? I'm not interested, geez, leave me alone please!" Sometimes people think there might be potential and so that's why you go on a first date and maybe a second one. Then one or both decide that the other person is not what they're looking for and they move onto the next one. That's what dating is supposed to be all about, yet I'm taking defeat very personally. I somehow feel entitled to protracted opportunity on the mere basis of making her initial cut, as if that's somehow a significant step toward the companionship and committed relationship I ultimately seek. Lots of people strike out after the first few dates. It's natural. I know that intellectually. Why can't my feelings accept it?!

[desperategirl]

Hey, sorry you've been rejected: we all know how much that hurts. I totally got blown off by a guy who seemed keen, and it sucks. I feel your pain.

 

BUT, what you have to do is NOT think about it all the time. I think your long posts are a good idea, as they are cathartic, but you shouldn't be looking at her Facebook etc. You need discipline.

 

Maybe read some self help stuff about relationships? I've found that healthy.

 

Maybe pursue something with someone else?

 

Hope you start to feel better.

[Jefezen]

BUT, what you have to do is NOT think about it all the time. I think your long posts are a good idea, as they are cathartic, but you shouldn't be looking at her Facebook etc. You need discipline.

 

I can't look at her Facebook anymore even if I wanted to because she blocked me. I had actually been trying to ween myself off of that habit independently on my own. Now that she took matters into her own hands, it might turn out to benefit me in the long run. I was spending way too much time merely checking on how frequently she'd log in from her mobile phone. She hardly ever posts anything on her Facebook page. It's quite bare. And the few times she does post something, it's not particularly interesting.

 

Maybe read some self help stuff about relationships? I've found that healthy.

 

I've done that with past obsessions. I find it only temporarily helpful. Generally the only cure for me is to wait things out. One day I wake up and I no longer care. It takes me awhile to get to that point, unfortunately.

 

Maybe pursue something with someone else?

 

I avidly work on that too. I had been doing so all along, in fact, because I had sensed for quite a few months now that I had already lost with this current infatuation. Nobody has excited me that much. Honestly, I can't quite figure out why this one did either, other than her assertiveness with me in the very beginning. It's not as though we ever really bonded or were a couple. How can I lose something I never had? I keep asking myself that question and I don't know the answer.

 

I see people pining away for exes and I can understand that because there's a real loss when you're in a relationship with someone that goes awry. You have shared memories, shared histories, shared emotions. I never had that with this woman, so why is it still so painful to me? I think it's because I feel I had the potential opportunity to reach that level and failed. But I have to stop beating myself up over it so much. The failure wasn't all mine. She made plenty of her own mistakes too, mistakes that most guys would have used to get over her quickly.

 

Hope you start to feel better.

 

Thanks. I appreciate the support. It's amazing how lonely and in despair one can feel on account of a single individual. I know the cliche "there are many fish in the sea." I know I've felt this way about others, including others I actually had a relationship with, but it still hurts, it still stings, and there seems to be no imminent end in sight for emotional relief. I'm always wondering what she's doing, where she's doing it, and with whom. It's so utterly pointless because I have no control over it but I persist anyway.