Interpret verbatim conversation

[Jefezen]

I know the following conversation represents a rejection. My question is whether I can potentially salvage anything out of it based on the woman's explanation for the rejection. What follows are the relevant, unedited excerpts from a recent online exchange with her:

 

Her: I think you're a nice gentlemen and a good friend. Its so nice to know you. At the begining I thought we would be maybe dating in the future but then my mind changed. I value your friendship and still willing to socialize as friend and do things together but just so much going on in my life and I can not really plan.

 

Me: I appreciate your candor. May I ask why you changed your mind about possibly dating? I know I have a tendency to be a little slow early on in conveying my interest in a woman. It's part of my shy nature. But the interest exists, and I was trying to show it a bit more when we went out to dinner that last time.

 

Her: I am not sure why but I'd say that I like your intellectual side but somethimes I think this is a little bit too much for me. Your intellectual writing and speaking made me feel like we're not the right match for eachother. I'm newcin your life so you're interested in and getting excited about making plans but maybe this won't be continuing. I'm kind of scared and took a step back.

 

Me: Thanks for answering. I can be casual too. The more I get to know someone, the more relaxed I become, the more down to earth and assertive I get. That's the real reason I tried to get you to go ice skating with me after New Years. I wanted a chance to do something less formal, more casual. It's actually kind of funny you mention my intellectual side possibly being too much for you, because I was thinking the same about you in reverse! When you were explaining to me what you do for work, I was thinking to myself, "Wow, I'm clueless, she's way too smart. How intimidating."

 

Her: Hahaa

 

Me: Sometimes early on when I meet someone, and maybe you've had this experience too, I feel like I'm at an oral examination where I need to impress to the best of my abilities. That, combined with my initial shyness, tends to give off an impression of rigidity, boredom, lack of being fun. But in all honesty, once I'm comfortable with someone, I don't worry about that anymore, I relax, and sometimes I don't shutup (as my close friends from childhood can attest).

 

Her: Maybe its not you, maybe its me. I hate speaking and writing broken English. I wish I'd be able to explain my self and my thoughts in a richer way, but just I can't.

Thanks for thinking great things about me. I really appreciated.

 

 

Well I think its normal what you're saying. I understand that.

 

 

 

Anyways it just did not work between us but I am glad we're still friends.

 

 

 

Have u been dating w someone yet?

 

 

Me: I've been going out with other women on occasion, but honestly, the reason I was so persistent with you (which is very unusual for me, by the way) is because I wanted to make sure that you really weren't interested anymore before I switch gears. I'm not someone who likes to pursue multiple people at once. That's come back to haunt me before, but so be it. How about you? Are you dating anyone? I'm guessing yes.

 

 

Her: It is amazing you think that dating w multiple ppl at the same time is not something for you. I feel the same. I know I can not put my true feelings and attention if I see more than one person at the same time.

Yes I went out with a guy I met online twice and I do have interest on getting him know more but I don't know what he thinks. He texts me very frequently. It is still very new and hard to guess where it's going. We'll see.

 

 

 

Me: I've never pursued multiple people simultaneously. I put my attention on one person. I probably was too slow with you. I tend to think that if I'm patient and give a a woman space, it'll work out better. That was probably a mistake. I'm a little frustrated we didn't have this conversation sooner, though. I missed out on another opportunity because I thought if I waited out your test and cousin, things might be different.

 

 

Her: Sorry. I think I was not clear but I did not exactly know/think you've been waiting for me.

 

 

Me: I'm not blaming you. I tend to hold back too much of what I'm thinking and what I want for too long on the mistaken belief that patience is a virtue, and that politeness requires playing along silently with the circumstances, even when intuition tells you that something is off.

 

 

Her: You seemed you're going out, socializing a lot. I thought we did not commit to eachother a relationship. If I was wrong please tell me

 

Oh no I understand

 

 

Me: Now that we're being completely open with one another, your English was honestly not the least bit of a concern to me. I actually prefer foreign women, I always have, and I thought you expressed yourself quite well. For me, the one thing that gave me pause was this sense that you had someone else all along. You'd encourage me to pursue you in some ways, but then you'd suddenly get a late night text message and abruptly disappear. That happened twice early on. You also seemed to get upset with me when I asked if you were seeing anybody after you declined my Valentines invitation.

 

 

Her: I am in a situation I look my phone every other hour to see a text from my new date but that is not coming. We all do similar things wait and expect. I think its normal.

 

I declined that because It won't be true. I also had a plan w my cousin that night.

 

 

Me: I know that feeling well of anticipating messages that never come, getting excited when you hear your phone beep, only to find that it's not the person you expected. That's another reason I could tell something was wrong. Early on, you'd initiate conversations with me sometimes. Then you stopped completely. If I didn't contact you, you never contacted me, and consequently, I was almost afraid to contact you because I felt like it was an imposition and you wouldn't like it.

 

 

Her: Thanks for telling me all of that.

 

I understand you very well and respect what you think and how you feel. I've been through in same situation.

 

 

 

We're all human and we do have same feelings one to other.

 

 

 

Anyways

 

 

 

I don't want you to be upset and hold back

 

 

 

Look forward

 

 

 

And continue exploring new places new people and new things. I'll be always here to talk.

 

 

...

 

 

Me: One last question, if I may...could you tell that I was interested in you, or did you not know? For my future endeavors, it would helpful to know whether I need to pounce a lot sooner, and harder.

 

 

Her: Well It depends, I am not an expert. Actually very bad in relationships. but I'd say its important to have one to one time together after going on 2-3 dates. For example staying together at night or spending a day together in an area far from other people and public. At the begining I waited to hear from you ask me come over to the bar you ussually go at some evenings. You never did. I enjoy being a part of people's daily life I like. I think I feel being accepted in some way. But its me anyways. Never mind.

 

 

Me: I wish I had known that, I would have asked you to join me in a nanosecond! The reason I didn't was I thought early on I'd have to impress you first by only taking you to top places and parties. I wasn't sure.

 

 

Her: That's all right. There is no exact or right way doing things. We both would not know.

 

 

Me: We also work in the same town sometimes and I thought about asking you for lunch, but then figured you'd think that's too much, too soon.

 

As you can see, I second guess myself a lot, often to my detriment.

 

 

Her: All my interest and attention focused on this new person in these days. I won't be able to say yes to you for hanging out together. That'd be wrong. But thank you.

 

Any ways I wish u a good night

 

 

 

Take care of yourself

[BluEyeL]

I think the real reason is that she is very interested in the other guy, who might not be as interested in her as you are. I don't think you can salvage something here, unfortunately The only way would be to wait a while, don't contact her and hope that the thing with the other guy will fizzle, i.e. contact her maybe in a few months and see how things are going. But I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you, I'd move on. I'm sorry it didn't work out, I know it sucks.

[Jefezen]

People are less nervous, less inhibited, when communicating through a screen, and therefore more likely to be straightforward. For those like me who over-analyze, it helps to keep transcripts. The downside, of course, is that without hearing the other person's voice you can't assess nuances like tone and sarcasm.

 

My basic interpretation of her explanation is that she's not interested in me anymore, wants to focus on this new guy she met, and also has several other unrelated things going on in her life that are stressing her out and keeping her occupied. My chances with her are slim to none, bleak at best. The way she definitively states, "Anyways it did not work between us" and exhorts me to move forward, not look back, and take care of myself doesn't exactly sound like someone who wants to spend much time with me in the future. She won't even go out with me as a friend right now.

 

That being said, there are at least two things she says in this conversation that provide me with a modicum of encouragement:

 

1. "Your intellectual writing and speaking made me feel like we're not the right match for eachother. I'm newcin your life so you're interested in and getting excited about making plans but maybe this won't be continuing. I'm kind of scared and took a step back."

 

This makes it sound like she preemptively rejected me out of fear that I would eventually reject her. In multiple other conversations, much shorter than this one, she'd comment on my increased partying and socializing, frequently asking if I'm meeting other people. I interpreted this to mean that she wanted me to interact with others and forget about her. But that question also could have been coming from a place of insecurity. Maybe she was worried that with all these other women I'm meeting, I'd lose interest in her, so she decided to spare herself the risk of my eventually deeming her unworthy of my pursuit and affection by cutting things off first.

 

Why else would she say that I'm excited about her now but maybe this won't continue and "I'm kind of scared and took a step back?" Taking those words at face value, doesn't it indicate she's been burned before by guys who show early interest and then drop her? If she was scared and took a step back because she sensed that my pursuit was too strong, I don't think she would have prefaced that remark with the concern that my interest in her might not continue. Why would that be one of her worries if she didn't have some kind of interest in me herself? Could this be a case of a self-defeatist with past baggage putting the proverbial bandaid on before the wound?

 

2. "At the begining I waited to hear from you ask me come over to the bar you ussually go at some evenings. You never did. I enjoy being a part of people's daily life I like. I think I feel being accepted in some way. But its me anyways. Never mind."

 

Here it sounds like she perceived a lack of interest on my part and wanted more attention from me. The melancholic lines about wanting to feel accepted "but its me anways nevermind" imply prior baggage. The fact that she brought this example up unsolicited indicates that it was, and could be, a source of hurt for her. Perhaps she already felt rejected by me.

 

Then again, I've periodically (not in a frequent harassing way) been trying to get her to go out with me for literally months now, and she keeps finding excuses for why she can't do it. She never offers any alternatives. She basically just says no, thanks for asking, how are you, are you meeting new people, and then ends the conversation.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Jefezen

[BluEyeL]

The first bolded paragraph could also be interpreted like you were coming too strong and she took a step back. I think you should stop overanalyzing this, find a new girl.

[january2011]

In my opinion, she's letting you down gently. I'm assuming that since you've been polite and gentlemenly, rather than a jerk about it, she feels safe in giving you more insight into her decision. That is, she doesn't get to be the "bad guy."

 

Both the bolded bits you've selected suggest past tense to me, as in "that ship has sailed." Again, she's trying to be kind and taking on some of the blame so that she doesn't look like the bad guy.

 

I wouldn't get in touch with her again unless she contacts you first and suggests a get-together. Effectively, you've been friendzoned but there's no guarantee that she will actually treat you as a friend, in the sense that she wants to spend time with you socially without any romantic interest. You risk getting your hopes up that there's something more to any subsequent interactions and you could end up missing out on other opportunities while you pursue this dead end.

[Jefezen]

I agree I should find a new girl, Blue, it's just very hard for me. I don't like starting over, I don't easily find new people I'm attracted to, and for at least a time this woman was definitely into me. I doubt she thinks I was coming on too hard. It seems like the opposite is true if she wanted me to involve her in my daily life (second bolded section). I'm the kind of guy who remains stiff and formal until maybe a fourth or fifth date when I'm finally comfortable.

 

As for the first bolded section, if she thought I was coming on too strong and took a step back for that reason, why the "but maybe this wouldn't continue" in the same sentence? To me, at least, that clearly reads as concern that I would no longer be as interested in her in the future as I am in the present. I don't know how else to interpret that component of the sentence. Why say that at all if she stepped back only because she thought I was coming on too strong?

[BluEyeL]

I really, really feel for you, I know exactly how you are feeling, I felt like that too and it sucks.

 

Gonna take you a couple of weeks or a month to get over this, but believe me, it is clear that she is not interested, and she is not interested because she is interested in that other guy. It doesn't really have anything to do with what you actually did. Attraction is weird, who the heck knows why she's more attracted to that jerk? This is going to pass and you'll start over when you're ready. It is hard, I'm sorry.

[Minneloa]

I agree I should find a new girl, Blue, it's just very hard for me. I don't like starting over, I don't easily find new people I'm attracted to, and for at least a time this woman was definitely into me. I doubt she thinks I was coming on too hard. It seems like the opposite is true if she wanted me to involve her in my daily life (second bolded section). I'm the kind of guy who remains stiff and formal until maybe a fourth or fifth date when I'm finally comfortable.

 

As for the first bolded section, if she thought I was coming on too strong and took a step back for that reason, why the "but maybe this wouldn't continue" in the same sentence? To me, at least, that clearly reads as concern that I would no longer be as interested in her in the future as I am in the present. I don't know how else to interpret that component of the sentence. Why say that at all if she stepped back only because she thought I was coming on too strong?

 

I'm sorry that this happened. Rejection stinks. That said, please listen to the perspectives that posters are offering here. The best thing to do is to move on and not ruminate over the past. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if she was interested at one point. She isn't now, and that's what counts. Sorry.

[Jefezen]

Blue, I think that, at least in large part, I am to blame for this not working out. I had four dates with her. She practically threw herself at me in the first two. I did nothing. I'm too shy in the early phases of courtship. I don't have the guts to make a move. By the third and fourth dates, I could already sense her interest fading, and I did finally make a minor move on the fourth date for what amounted to a brief lip tap kiss. I haven't seen her since, and that was back in January. I've asked her out three or four times since then and she always turns me down.

 

First, she claimed she was busy studying for an important career-related exam and spending free time with a close friend of her's moving back to her home country. I left her alone for a month after that, with zero contact. After the relatively long period of silence, I tried asking her out again and she actually responded excitedly, claiming that we'd arrange to do something together but that she was busy on the particular days I suggested. She explained to me in detail why she was occupied on those days.

 

I waited two more weeks and then tried yet again. She turned me down, claiming she's going through a lot right now and can't make any plans. That's when I gently confronted her about what the real problem is and we had the conversation I pasted above.

[BluEyeL]

I need to go, but I'll get back soon, I wanna say smthing.

[Jefezen]

The best thing to do is to move on and not ruminate over the past.

 

Is giving up always the solution? Is it ever possible to rekindle an early interest? I've heard stories of people who were persistent and eventually got what they wanted. I do think there's a remote chance based on the lines I bolded that fear of my eventually rejecting her and frustration over my slowness in coming onto her may have been contributing factors in her loss of interest.

 

In terms of her personality, she's somewhat flighty. She goes clubbing, she parties a lot, she's rarely in relationships, she generally strikes me as secretive. Even when she was acting interested in me, as early as our second date, she'd receive text messages while we were out together and abruptly call it a night, leaving me behind with dubious explanation. I found that extremely rude and not exactly conducive toward engendering intimacy. It was difficult to build any sort of momentum with her because way too much time would elapse between outings, and it was almost as though we were starting over again every time we finally saw each other.

 

Rationally, and this honestly isn't the proverbial case of sour grapes on my part, I know she wasn't really the best fit for me anyway. We're very different people. She's very socially experienced, I am hardly experienced at all. But I liked knowing that I was considered handsome by the popular, flashy type (she flat out told me). That had never happened to me before. I liked being pursued by someone from that demographic. That had never happened to me before either. I enjoyed going out with her. I enjoyed drinking with her. I enjoyed dancing with her. I enjoyed being seen with her. I felt good, I felt validated, I felt like a man.

 

I was too tentative and I think she quickly sensed my inexperience and withdrew for that reason more than any other. I was also very slow to visibly reciprocate the intense burst of interest she displayed in me at the beginning. I wish I could somehow turn this around and salvage something but I know that realistically I can't, and that my oneitis, my sense of urgency in capitalizing on the very few opportunities of interest that present themselves to me, contribute to this incessant state of anxiety and disappointment that presently consume me.

[Minneloa]

Maybe giving up isn't always the solution, but in this case, by your own account, it is the only course of action remaining. Sorry.

[FitChick]

Don't make the same mistake with the next woman. Forget about this one.

Edited April 21, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Keenly]

I never understand why people would have such an in depth convo over text/email. Why the hell not just call to discuss such things?

 

That being said, its great to have insight like this girl gave you. But remember her needs and preferences wont necessarily matcg any other girls

 

because some people like myself are ALWAYS doing something and can't talk on the one, or just don't like to.

[Star Gazer]

I don't think there's anything to salvage here, unfortunately.

 

There is something to learn though...

 

You come across as a little more serious and high brow than your average, easy-going guy that the girl you're interested in is likely to go for. Unless deep, heavy intellectual conversation is important to you in a partner, "dumb it down" a little bit, and maintain those more intense conversations for your colleagues and the like.

[BluEyeL]

Don't make the same mistake with the next woman. Forget about this one.

 

That's exactly right. You gave more information here about what type of woman she is. Well, that type can hurt you more easily, as it happened. The only glimmer of hope would be that the guy she likes dumps her and than you should show up at the right time. Unfortunately you don't know when that time is. It was very rude to answer texts and drop you while out with you. Jeez!! And you still like her!

 

I am not sure how restrained you were with her and what you mean by that. I would say if you want to show interest early on, make sure you touch the lady on the arm a lot, and maintain quite intense eye contact from the first date, use your body language to show interest, even if you are not a very good flirty conversationalist. Second date you could hold her hand, put your arm around her... something along these lines. If you did all these and she still didn't respond and that's too restrained, then this problem is out of my league...

 

Bottom line, might be your fault or not, but she fell for the other guy so you could possibly be persistent by checking in every now and then, like monthly or so and see if that blows up (I suspect it'll blow up, as women are stupid and go for jerks).

 

Take care and good luck in the future. I still recommend moving on, push through whatever pain you feel now and come back at the other end.

[Sunshine87]

Interesting. I can relate a lot to this- in a different way. I've met a lot of men and the ones who stand out are those who appear to be "deeper" than the average Joe. So I want to let you know that you have done nothing wrong by being yourself. I understand you so much and reading through your chats and some of the things your posted were so similar to things I've thought. Your style of writing, the thoroughness of your explanation, your depth, your good communication skills, your honest nature. These are positive things. However I honestly don't think that you and this girl are the right match. You will find someone who will be drawn to you because of the same traits that you are beating yourself up about. Being shy is cute!

 

 

The truth is, this woman is interested in someone else. Even if you had

adopted a different style of communication etc earlier on, she might have dropped you eventually for this other guy. This has nothing to do with you.

She has some emotional attachment to this other guy and that killed the

interest. I wouldn't take anything she said about your actions seriously.

They are just tiny excuses which would not have made a different if she

was really interested in you. You communicated like a gentleman and she reciprocated by letting you down gently. However she was very clear -

categorically clear that she was/is interested in someone else. That is your closure.

 

Maybe, just maybe things don't work out with the other guy- she might run

back to you. But would you really want to be with someone who saw you as a second option? Or someone who would most likely play with your emotions?

 

I know how you feel because I am not easily attracted to people too. But

that is no excuse to hold on to the wrong person just because I happen to be attracted to him. You need to cut off for now. Don't contact her unless she contacts yo and if she does, play it cool. Let her take the lead.

 

I know it's hard but that is the only feasible option that you have.

 

Ultimately, I don't think she was/is a good match for you and a relationship with her might have ended prematurely, causing you even more pain and hurt.

 

Keep posting.

 

 

 

 

 

I know the following conversation represents a rejection. My question is whether I can potentially salvage anything out of it based on the woman's explanation for the rejection. What follows are the relevant, unedited excerpts from a recent online exchange with her:

 

Her: I think you're a nice gentlemen and a good friend. Its so nice to know you. At the begining I thought we would be maybe dating in the future but then my mind changed. I value your friendship and still willing to socialize as friend and do things together but just so much going on in my life and I can not really plan.

 

Me: I appreciate your candor. May I ask why you changed your mind about possibly dating? I know I have a tendency to be a little slow early on in conveying my interest in a woman. It's part of my shy nature. But the interest exists, and I was trying to show it a bit more when we went out to dinner that last time.

 

Her: I am not sure why but I'd say that I like your intellectual side but somethimes I think this is a little bit too much for me. Your intellectual writing and speaking made me feel like we're not the right match for eachother. I'm newcin your life so you're interested in and getting excited about making plans but maybe this won't be continuing. I'm kind of scared and took a step back.

 

Me: Thanks for answering. I can be casual too. The more I get to know someone, the more relaxed I become, the more down to earth and assertive I get. That's the real reason I tried to get you to go ice skating with me after New Years. I wanted a chance to do something less formal, more casual. It's actually kind of funny you mention my intellectual side possibly being too much for you, because I was thinking the same about you in reverse! When you were explaining to me what you do for work, I was thinking to myself, "Wow, I'm clueless, she's way too smart. How intimidating."

 

Her: Hahaa

 

Me: Sometimes early on when I meet someone, and maybe you've had this experience too, I feel like I'm at an oral examination where I need to impress to the best of my abilities. That, combined with my initial shyness, tends to give off an impression of rigidity, boredom, lack of being fun. But in all honesty, once I'm comfortable with someone, I don't worry about that anymore, I relax, and sometimes I don't shutup (as my close friends from childhood can attest).

 

Her: Maybe its not you, maybe its me. I hate speaking and writing broken English. I wish I'd be able to explain my self and my thoughts in a richer way, but just I can't.

Thanks for thinking great things about me. I really appreciated.

 

 

Well I think its normal what you're saying. I understand that.

 

 

 

Anyways it just did not work between us but I am glad we're still friends.

 

 

 

Have u been dating w someone yet?

 

 

Me: I've been going out with other women on occasion, but honestly, the reason I was so persistent with you (which is very unusual for me, by the way) is because I wanted to make sure that you really weren't interested anymore before I switch gears. I'm not someone who likes to pursue multiple people at once. That's come back to haunt me before, but so be it. How about you? Are you dating anyone? I'm guessing yes.

 

 

Her: It is amazing you think that dating w multiple ppl at the same time is not something for you. I feel the same. I know I can not put my true feelings and attention if I see more than one person at the same time.

Yes I went out with a guy I met online twice and I do have interest on getting him know more but I don't know what he thinks. He texts me very frequently. It is still very new and hard to guess where it's going. We'll see.

 

 

 

Me: I've never pursued multiple people simultaneously. I put my attention on one person. I probably was too slow with you. I tend to think that if I'm patient and give a a woman space, it'll work out better. That was probably a mistake. I'm a little frustrated we didn't have this conversation sooner, though. I missed out on another opportunity because I thought if I waited out your test and cousin, things might be different.

 

 

Her: Sorry. I think I was not clear but I did not exactly know/think you've been waiting for me.

 

 

Me: I'm not blaming you. I tend to hold back too much of what I'm thinking and what I want for too long on the mistaken belief that patience is a virtue, and that politeness requires playing along silently with the circumstances, even when intuition tells you that something is off.

 

 

Her: You seemed you're going out, socializing a lot. I thought we did not commit to eachother a relationship. If I was wrong please tell me

 

Oh no I understand

 

 

Me: Now that we're being completely open with one another, your English was honestly not the least bit of a concern to me. I actually prefer foreign women, I always have, and I thought you expressed yourself quite well. For me, the one thing that gave me pause was this sense that you had someone else all along. You'd encourage me to pursue you in some ways, but then you'd suddenly get a late night text message and abruptly disappear. That happened twice early on. You also seemed to get upset with me when I asked if you were seeing anybody after you declined my Valentines invitation.

 

 

Her: I am in a situation I look my phone every other hour to see a text from my new date but that is not coming. We all do similar things wait and expect. I think its normal.

 

I declined that because It won't be true. I also had a plan w my cousin that night.

 

 

Me: I know that feeling well of anticipating messages that never come, getting excited when you hear your phone beep, only to find that it's not the person you expected. That's another reason I could tell something was wrong. Early on, you'd initiate conversations with me sometimes. Then you stopped completely. If I didn't contact you, you never contacted me, and consequently, I was almost afraid to contact you because I felt like it was an imposition and you wouldn't like it.

 

 

Her: Thanks for telling me all of that.

 

I understand you very well and respect what you think and how you feel. I've been through in same situation.

 

 

 

We're all human and we do have same feelings one to other.

 

 

 

Anyways

 

 

 

I don't want you to be upset and hold back

 

 

 

Look forward

 

 

 

And continue exploring new places new people and new things. I'll be always here to talk.

 

 

...

 

 

Me: One last question, if I may...could you tell that I was interested in you, or did you not know? For my future endeavors, it would helpful to know whether I need to pounce a lot sooner, and harder.

 

 

Her: Well It depends, I am not an expert. Actually very bad in relationships. but I'd say its important to have one to one time together after going on 2-3 dates. For example staying together at night or spending a day together in an area far from other people and public. At the begining I waited to hear from you ask me come over to the bar you ussually go at some evenings. You never did. I enjoy being a part of people's daily life I like. I think I feel being accepted in some way. But its me anyways. Never mind.

 

 

Me: I wish I had known that, I would have asked you to join me in a nanosecond! The reason I didn't was I thought early on I'd have to impress you first by only taking you to top places and parties. I wasn't sure.

 

 

Her: That's all right. There is no exact or right way doing things. We both would not know.

 

 

Me: We also work in the same town sometimes and I thought about asking you for lunch, but then figured you'd think that's too much, too soon.

 

As you can see, I second guess myself a lot, often to my detriment.

 

 

Her: All my interest and attention focused on this new person in these days. I won't be able to say yes to you for hanging out together. That'd be wrong. But thank you.

 

Any ways I wish u a good night

 

 

 

Take care of yourself

Edited April 21, 2013 by Sunshine87

[Jefezen]

I am not sure how restrained you were with her and what you mean by that. I would say if you want to show interest early on, make sure you touch the lady on the arm a lot, and maintain quite intense eye contact from the first date, use your body language to show interest, even if you are not a very good flirty conversationalist. Second date you could hold her hand, put your arm around her... something along these lines. If you did all these and she still didn't respond and that's too restrained, then this problem is out of my league...

 

I didn't do any of those things. I'm truly that restrained. I hate that about myself but I'm working on it. Keep in mind I didn't really start dating at all until this past year. I'm a rookie who is slowly learning that I should not be emulating the courtship rules of Victorian novels.

 

I would kiss this woman on the cheek, at her prompting, before saying goodnight to her. I would verbally compliment her appearance and send mildly flirtatious text messages. That's it. The second time we went out she told me twice how much she loves sex but then she got a text message, said she had to go, and left without much explanation. I honestly would have tried something that night had she not abandoned me. I went from encouraged to dejected in a span of an hour.

 

Bottom line, might be your fault or not, but she fell for the other guy so you could possibly be persistent by checking in every now and then, like monthly or so and see if that blows up (I suspect it'll blow up, as women are stupid and go for jerks).

 

It's been months since I last saw her in person. I don't think this new guy she met online of all places (bizarre for a party animal) is the reason she lost interest in me. She says she's only gone out with him twice and that it's too early to tell if it's going anywhere. From what I remember, she was always meeting tons of guys, and even telling me about it. I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a whole string of guys who made her lose focus in me. This has been a months-long devolution.

 

I check in on her from time to time with a text message, rarely more than once a week, sometimes only once a month. She responds politely, sometimes even enthusiastically, if I'm funny about the way I start the conversation. But she consistently claims to be busy, turns me down for an outing, says she already has other plans, then asks if I'm meeting other people (which obviously sounds ominous). It's only this last time that I finally tried to pin her down on an explanation that she opened up more and provided some insight.

 

I agree that I'm basically done and have no hope with her. The best I can do is contact her every once in awhile to assess where she is in life, whether her relationship is flourishing or floundering, and see if I luck into catching her at the right moment when she might have second thoughts about giving someone who has persistent interest in her an opportunity. Despite her superficial popularity, I sense that we both have a high measure of desperation to get into relationships - her because she's bad at them by her own admission and hasn't been in one for awhile, me because of my inexperience and fervent desire to finally experience romantic companionship after years of virtually nothing in that realm.

 

There actually are multiple women expressing interest in me right now, including one who practically asked me to have sex with her. Interestingly, and here's where I harbor a modicum of hope, two of them are women I used to be fixated upon even more than I am with this one. They both rejected me quite soundly in the past, to the point that we had absolutely no contact (for years in the case of the first, months in the case of the second one). The ill will was mostly my fault. Due to my desperation and neediness, I did not react well to rejection from them and I scared them away with my conduct (mostly written). I didn't threaten them or anything like that, I wasn't sexual about it, there was nothing vulgar. I just came across as so obsessed with them that they asked me never to contact them again.

 

One of them randomly e-mailed me about a month ago and wanted to start talking. She was apologetic about how she handled things before, almost begging me to let her back into my life. When she had first rejected me, there was nothing I wanted more than for her to do that, and yet when she reached out to me recently, I didn't feel a thing. My reaction was basically just, "Interesting. This is unexpected." I didn't hold a grudge, I gave her perfunctory answers to her questions. I didn't initiate any conversations, and she sadly said, "It looks like you don't really want anything to do with me anymore. I'm sorry." But she persisted. She waited a few weeks, then contacted me again, and last night she called me on the phone and we talked for 2 1/2 hours. I no longer have any romantic interest in this woman. I'm frankly quite surprised that someone who once meant so much to me no longer carries an emotional hold. I used to be chronically depressed to the point of physical sickness over her and now it's as though she's just another acquaintance.

 

The second girl also came back into my life fairly recently, although in that case I did persist with her, I just forced myself to be a lot more patient about the timing. I repeatedly apologized, I begged for her forgiveness, then I just gave her time. Suddenly one day, she randomly started acting amicably again and called me on the phone. She said she missed me. I'm actually optimistic that if I wanted to push things a little further and start seeing her again she would be open to it. She's almost as friendly with me now as when I first met her. It's not quite a 180 from our nadir, but maybe a 140.

 

I was actually still fixated on this particular woman when I first met the one I'm fixated on now. That's partially why I was slow to respond to the current one. I was still hung up on the previous one thinking I'd be miserable forever. But I wasn't. I did get over her. And now with her casually trying to get back into my good graces, it's almost as though I don't really care about the outcome anymore. I'm not sure what I want with her. I'd like to be able to hang out with her again, maybe have her as a friend. I don't feel any kind of time pressure to actuate anything. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, so be it. As recently as this past November, I never imagined I would be feeling this nonchalant about her today.

 

Given this pair of examples of people from my past who mattered greatly to me at one time, re-appeared and meant next to nothing, I am cautiously hopeful for two things:

 

1. This current fixation of mine will also eventually come around and want to be in my life.

 

2. If/when she does come around, I won't be stressed out anymore about the subsequent step(s) because I just won't care that much about what happens.

 

If these other two women could change their attitudes toward me from hate, fear, revulsion, and estrangement to apologetic friendliness, forgiveness, and a genuine desire and openness to renew some kind of relationship, then surely the same can happen here where there's no such animosity, hatred, or extreme negative to overcome. I've been very restrained up to this point with my current fixation. I haven't repeated my overly emotional post-rejection mistakes of the past. I have nothing serious to atone for, unlike in the other two instances where I frankly deserved their strong reactions.

[Jefezen]

I know how you feel because I am not easily attracted to people too. But

that is no excuse to hold on to the wrong person just because I happen to be attracted to him. You need to cut off for now. Don't contact her unless she contacts yo and if she does, play it cool. Let her take the lead.

 

It's not just that I do not easily get attracted to people. It's also the fact that she initially pursued me and that we had four outings together. I'm not accustomed to good looking women being that assertive with me. She made her interest readily apparent. It was not my imagination. I did not strike when I had my brief window of opportunity and I'm afraid that I won't get similar opportunities in the future because I never had them in the past.

 

I tend to attach myself to women I deem attractive who either initiate a pursuit of me or who reciprocate my interest. It's been so rare that I don't easily capitulate when I sense their attraction fading. I figure that if they liked me at one point they can like me again, if I only try harder, or find that right magic formula. As a shy person it's difficult to just find someone else and start all over. Once I've invested myself emotionally in someone and muddled my way through the initial stages of awkwardness and discomfort to finally open up and escalate the relationship to a more intimate level, I don't want to lose all that progress, and feel as though I wasted the tremendous effort I exerted to reach that point. There's an element of obstinacy in refusing to turn back when I'm halfway up the mountain. I can see the avalanche headed my way, but the thought of going all the way back down the mountain and finding some other one to scale seems more daunting than just hoping I can somehow break my way through the falling rocks to the top.

[FitChick]

the thought of going all the way back down the mountain and finding some other one to scale seems more daunting than just hoping I can somehow break my way through the falling rocks to the top.

 

Welcome to the world of dating. Get used to it or become a monk.

 

What kind of relationship did you/do you have with your parents, especially your mother?

[BluEyeL]

 

What kind of relationship did you/do you have with your parents, especially your mother?

That's a serious therapy question

[BluEyeL]

If these other two women could change their attitudes toward me from hate, fear, revulsion, and estrangement to apologetic friendliness, forgiveness, and a genuine desire and openness to renew some kind of relationship, then surely the same can happen here where there's no such animosity, hatred, or extreme negative to overcome. I've been very restrained up to this point with my current fixation. I haven't repeated my overly emotional post-rejection mistakes of the past. I have nothing serious to atone for, unlike in the other two instances where I frankly deserved their strong reactions.

 

Well, you seem to get fixated but later get over it. Also, once the women start chasing you, you lose interest in them, which is kinda natural. In any case, the fact that you went over your past fixations indicates that you will get over this one too. Work on yourself to not repeat the mistakes with this one next time. And follow the steps I listed on body language when you get your next romantic interest. In general, you are not quite "together", so you might want to see what you can do about not getting so obsessive in the future.

[Sunshine87]

It's not just that I do not easily get attracted to people. It's also the fact that she initially pursued me and that we had four outings together. I'm not accustomed to good looking women being that assertive with me. She made her interest readily apparent. It was not my imagination. I did not strike when I had my brief window of opportunity and I'm afraid that I won't get similar opportunities in the future because I never had them in the past.

 

I tend to attach myself to women I deem attractive who either initiate a pursuit of me or who reciprocate my interest. It's been so rare that I don't easily capitulate when I sense their attraction fading. I figure that if they liked me at one point they can like me again, if I only try harder, or find that right magic formula. As a shy person it's difficult to just find someone else and start all over. Once I've invested myself emotionally in someone and muddled my way through the initial stages of awkwardness and discomfort to finally open

up and escalate the relationship to a more intimate level, I don't want to lose

all that progress, and feel as though I wasted the tremendous effort I exerted to reach that point. There's an element of obstinacy in refusing to turn back when I'm halfway up the mountain. I can see the avalanche headed my way, but the thought of going all the way back down the mountain and finding some other one to scale seems more daunting than just hoping I can somehow break

my way through the falling rocks to the top.

 

 

 

Wow! You took the words right out of my mouth. For a long time I thought I was a weirdo but reading your posts illustrates that people are created in different ways and we need to learn to embrace our idiosyncrasies. The world would be a boring place if we were all the same.*

 

*Back to you: You mentioned that she pursued you at first. This is indicative of some interest in/attraction *to you. But something *happened - and the interest waned. We are yet to agree on the causal link. You believe your actions played a big role but I believe in the more simplified version ( based on what she said and more importantly her actions eg *waiting for a text message).*

 

 

I'm female so believe me when I say that when a woman likes a guy, her attention diverts to that interest. *Sure, it is possible to have feelings for two people simultaneously but there often has to be a certain level of emotional attachment or bond with both men. She went from being friendly etc to expressly stating that she could not hang out with you. She effectively withdrew completely from the friendship/relationship. You didn't do anything wrong to her, but she has retracted. This has nothing to do with your actions or inactions but with her new found flame. Women don't just lose interest because a guy was slightly shy !! I don't know how else to explain it but the start of a relationship is often characterised with lots of sparks and excitement. Right now, her thoughts are occupied with this other guy. She is thinking about him, she gets giddy when she hears from him. He*

consumes her thoughts and she indirectly said this to you. This factor adversely impacted her interest for you. Even if you had succeeded when you had your "brief window of opportunity", she probably would have dropped you for the other guy because right now, she prefers him. *

 

She has made this easy ( in a way) because you are aware that there is someone else in the picture- causing a distraction. Would you have preferred it if she tuned off completely not because of another guy, but simply because she didn't fancy you at all and would rather remain single than enjoy your companionship?

 

I understand that the other two women who rejected you, returned but life is not as mechanical as you've laid made it out to be. So hopefully this girl will return someday but she may not. You need to adopt that frame of mind in order to prevent yourself from building up too much hope.

 

I know exactly now you feel about not wanting to start again. I'm female so it's even more difficult for me as I don't approach men. But life is what it is and I can't force someone to feel the same way about me, regardless of how far we have gone in the relationship.*

 

 

It is far more easier to star over again now( since you were not together for a long time). But you really need to stop over thinking.

 

You are competing against a man whom she has a lot of interest in. You can't win unless he is out of the picture or unless she loses interest in him somewhere along the line.*

 

I'm so sorry you feel this way and I understand your confusion and hurt. But pls try and accommodate the opinions of others because we see it from a different perspective, devoid of emotions and founded more on logical inferences from HER actions and words and your narrative of the pattern of events.*

[todreaminblue]

was having a chat to my mum....the other day.......im about to start dating after a long long....looooooooooong break....lol.....i am a shy person or so i thought that's what i am ....my mum says i am reserved but I am not actually shy....i hold back ....a bit aloof......i dont like my emotions on the surface i prefer to keep them in check and firmly under control.......but once i know someone i really have fun.......i am affectionate and playful....

 

 

you soudn reserved and the girl sounds reserved......it is an impossibel situation soemone has to come to the front and take control.....when its no you do it...no....you do it.....the initial hurdle is a big one...thsi is what i figure...the man should step up....lol...smilin...thats what should happen.....i have kamikazed myself for guy i really like....i normally dont i just wait until i get asked......on reserve......

 

you really do need to step up next time.....and who knows maybe this woman you were interested in may contact you at a later date....all i know is when you have two people who are reserved until they get to know someone interested in each other......its not gonna happen unless someone bites the bullet...and sadly....it often doesnt happen..because someone needs to initiate....polite people thinking actively initiating is an impostion commonly.....which means....it ends up over before it started...which is sad....deb

[ja123]

Sorry it didn't work out. I wouldn't contact her again, if I were you.

 

I do think it's postive that you got an exit interview. Too few of us have that opportunity. Keep in mind, the things she said are from her perspective, so you don't want to go changing yourself for someone; however, I think you get the clear sense that you could've pounced on the ball a little sooner, and invited her to participate more in your life. Things to keep in mind for next time.

 

Good luck!