Spark1111 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Not Reality v v Reality v v This is a big part of the fog. The first part is the excitement of a new love connection. The thrill of receiving attention from another person. At this point it is so easy to project onto the new person. You really don't know this person, but you think you do because of the projection. The second part is what you have described so well: it's not real. With an affair the partners get the all of fun and excitement without the baggage of life's responsibilities. We all know that living with a person for an extended time takes the luster off the SO. In your list, how can any husband compete with an AP that doesn't have to worry about kids, home, finances, carting kids around, laundry, etc. For my wife's affair I couldn't compete with her AP. Their relationship was based on the fun superficial surface stuff: hanging out for fun and passionate sex. Meanwhile I'm working to pay the bills, I'm doing the house work, managing the finances (which were tight!), doing laundry, taking care of the cars, landscaping, going through the mail,.... all of the NOT-fun activities. I was doing the boring stuff that is necessary for living in the adult world of responsibility. Her AP didn't have to worry about any of that. He just had to "date" her without any of the homefront responsibilities. Part of the fog is living in this fantasy world and not realizing that it is fantasy. And what a beautiful fantasy it is..... In an affair, you do not have unlimited access to each other as you would in a regular dating relationship. You aren't hanging out every evening, or meeting his other friends and family members. You do not get to see how he drops his clothes on the floor for his wife to wash, or how he forgets to take out the garbage or misses paying his bills on time. Why should reality ever be allowed to intrude on that perfect and perpetual third date? You only have the two of you, the secrets you share, and an illicit thrill conducted in isolation from ALL others. How exciting to feel so alive. So WHO was your affair partner? Whomever you needed him to be to keep those feel good chemicals flowing....and, he was the only person on the planet who enabled you to lie and deceive your H and family....to feel good. YOu both fell in love with feelings based on fantasy and projection. Fog often occurs when that is interrupted or intruded upon by reality. It's a mental state caused by extreme confusion, even anger, that consequences are now raining down, many painful, for having felt so good. Like I said, my H alternated between depression and anger when DDay burst his affair bubble. I threw him out to go be with his AP and promised not to cause him grief. No one was more confused than I when that seemed to be the last thing he wanted. 9
ladydesigner Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 An affair is many times just a fantasy escape from reality. It's like a honeymoon, replete with hotel stays and new romance. In an affair dynamic, there are no kids, no dishes, no soccer games, no laundry, no shared finances. And both APs only show each other their best sides. They wear their best clothes, jewelry, and cologne. They are flush with compliments and ripe for no-holds barred sex (because if you're going to go out on this limb, you might as well go for the gusto). The spouse at home has no chance at competing with this fantasy. In many cases, they're left managing those real-life problems since their spouse is distant, disinterested, and detached (if they're around at all). The wayward associates the BS with that boring life and associates the AP with the escape from it all. My WH's A's have always been an escape from reality...himself. The above is so true. Plus it's new and all those new feelings that you haven't felt since you met your spouse. Who knows I think everyone in the triangle eventually gets to experience their own kind of fog: WS thinks they are in love with another BS thinks WS can change OW/OM thinks the MM/MW loves them the most etc... 1
Spark1111 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 I thought I understood that but the more I think about the more confused I am. (not sure if this is the right spot for this) When I was in the A, my feelings we're genuine. I really did love him. I loved everything about him. Yes it was fun and exciting but I did love him. I was true with him. I didn't lie to him. I didn't talk bad about my SO to him. When it ended, it ended horrible. There was (and is) a lot of anger towards him now. He's even left me a few voicemails recently, it didn't have the effect on me I think he wanted. It pissed me off. The fog. Is that what people think I was in DURING the A?? My feelings for him were genuine. Of course I now know the man I thought I loved, wasn't that man. But at the time I didn't realize that. Or was the fog right AFTER the A ended?? Yes I missed him, but I realized more then that I missed who I thought he was. I don't think I'm in a fog now but when I think about it, was I in a fog?? The man you loved did not exist? Why is that? You have anger at him? Why is that? He leaves you emails, and it makes you angry? Someone you once claimed to love? Why? You missed who you thought he was, but NOT REALLY WHO he was? Do you see how this thinking is difficult for others to grasp? Do you see how much of your feelings you projected onto him, but at the same time admitting you really did not know him? You are very, very close to understanding "fog." 4
ladydesigner Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 And what a beautiful fantasy it is..... In an affair, you do not have unlimited access to each other as you would in a regular dating relationship. You aren't hanging out every evening, or meeting his other friends and family members. You do not get to see how he drops his clothes on the floor for his wife to wash, or how he forgets to take out the garbage or misses paying his bills on time. Why should reality ever be allowed to intrude on that perfect and perpetual third date? You only have the two of you, the secrets you share, and an illicit thrill conducted in isolation from ALL others. How exciting to feel so alive. So WHO was your affair partner? Whomever you needed him to be to keep those feel good chemicals flowing....and, he was the only person on the planet who enabled you to lie and deceive your H and family....to feel good. YOu both fell in love with feelings based on fantasy and projection. Fog often occurs when that is interrupted or intruded upon by reality. It's a mental state caused by extreme confusion, even anger, that consequences are now raining down, many painful, for having felt so good. Like I said, my H alternated between depression and anger when DDay burst his affair bubble. I threw him out to go be with his AP and promised not to cause him grief. No one was more confused than I when that seemed to be the last thing he wanted. I think this is one of the best examples of my WH's A fog and I believe most A fog. 3
jlola Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 As a former WW I dont agree with the fog and think people use it as an excuse or use it to try to justify their Wayward behaviour. How is the fog any different from falling in love in a legit relationship? when you meet someone you are blind to their faults, you tend to overlook things and fall in love with their positives. i am not trying to be disrespectful it is just that i take full responsibility for my selfishness and hate to see people use it as an excuse instead of working on themselves and understanding why it happened. i knew what i was doing...there is no excuse. I think an affair is different. You are comparing someone you have known and lived with, faults and all to someone you are in the "idealization " stage with. familiarity breeds contempt,boring. New is exciting. Real life can never win over an affair. You over accentuate the positives of new person, over exaggerate negatives of old. Even Christian websites say that. This is the reason there has to be NC with AP. So you can stop comparing . I know some people say I was in an affair and still saw reality. Loved this person warts and all. But in the infatuation stage that can last 3 years(more in an affair) we may see the warts, but we let that go. Make excuses,think it's cute. past the infatuation stage, what we once thought cute is no the problem. A regular relationship does not have an old relationship being compared to a new. A regular relationship does not have competition from the get go. A regular relationship(unless it is an open one like some here have) has people meeting friends,family. Able to get in contact at any time. A regular relationship that is healthy should have no anxiety,,triangulation,insecurity,drama,push/pull. If so, it is toxic. Not good! I have been in "regular' relationships that included all the negativity of affairs. They are the ones I was most affected by because my emotions ran like a roller coaster. Drama, insecurity, anxiety,uncertainty,high highs and low lows.all negative things. But at the time, I equated my heightened emotions with love. It must be love, because other relationships didn't make me feel that way. But it wasn't love. It was disfunction on my part. Being brought up with dysfunctional people who were either in affairs,or accepted the affairs gave me a pretty screwed up version of relationships and love. Love meant obstacles.love meant drama, love meant anxiety,love meant uncertainty,love meant wanting. 5
Owl Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Our psychologist explained it as emotional confusion; a state where one has difficulty cognitively processing their emotions into consistent behaviors comparing favorably with their normal and historical behavioral sets. When we spoke of clarifying emotions, it was to 'cut through the fog' and to see actions and their emotional impetuses clearly. I had never heard the term before, but read it here on LS so talked about it in MC to understand my own version better. Frankly, during that period, I thought I was going crazy, but that was mostly from caring for a psychotic person. Marked emotional stress was occurring and I was processing it poorly. MC helped. Thank you for this, Carhill. I only hope that AR and some of the other folks read this. I'd be interested in her take on this definition, especially as it came from a PROFESSIONAL PSYCHOLOGIST...an 'expert' if you will. 5
jlola Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) In an affair you also get a one sided version of reality. You get MM's version of who he is,his version of who BS is. You begin to empathize with his one sided version. You see him/her as the poor soul married to one who does not appreciate him/her. They forget to mention what an A** they could be to their spouse. There are married women who find a knight to save her. She forgets to tell the knight her husband is upset because she has maxxed out credit cards, or she is flirtatious, or she may compare what they have with others, or nag him or whatever. They give this "poor me" version. and you want to rescue. You are not seeing the real situation as you would if you were dating or living with her. Does not happen in regular relationships. I give this example because a friend who was in an affair with a foreign MOW used to say how thrifty she was. Good with money. Sweet,quiet Her husband was not good to her. Years later he found out her husband would get angry because though she worked part-time and he full time(sometimes even weekends) she spent money like it was water. She would buy clothes,insisted on expensive vacations with HER friends,would insist her "partying sister" come to the U.S. every year on his dime and stay 3 months or so while she ignored him, had a group of girlfriends that were questionable,she smoked pot on the regular basis(he did not know this,thought she would not even take a drink), bulimic,had husband buy a very expensive house at market high that lost half it's value,all the while in the affair because she wanted to start a family. Meanwhile was making plans with my friend to leave the marriage. He did not see any of that. Because seeing each other part-time she could hide all of this. And the affair went on for 3 years!!! But her husband was the bad guy who gave her no attention and always angry. Wonder why? He knew her because you bring out your very best in the infatuation stage. But cannot keep the act going too long unless you see the other person infrequently. I think eventually she stayed in her marriage because she knew once my friend found out who she really was, he would leave. Her husband had already proven he would put up with her crap. So why leave a good thing? Edited April 18, 2013 by jlola 5
Furious Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Everyone wants to go to Disneyland but how many people really live there. Affairs are an escape, maybe not from the marriage but from themselves, it's a chance to reinvent yourself, to highlight your positives and minimize your negatives. It's easier to be a part time lover than it is to be full time partner. My husbands affair partner didn't know he wears a mouthguard to bed, didn't know he snores and can't cook.. In an affair, it's I'll be who you want me to be and vice versa but then I got to get home. 6
seren Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Reading some of the posts about how fantasy and A's not having both feet in reality (I would add some A's, as not all are the same) I am reminded of how OW said that H was so different from her H. That when her H came home all he wanted to do was watch television, remote in hand and never wanted to go out, party, etc and I said that H was a homebody and was happiest with a beer in hand watching sport on television and hated going out to pubs etc. OW said no, she knew him and that H was different. Reality was very different from how H was perceived, I was the one that liked going out, H was the one that loved being at home. I was reminded of that tonight and looked across at H who was fast asleep, his little Buddha belly poking over his trousers gently snoring with a cat on his lap. OW saw H when he had a few beers, was with his mates on a night out or for a few hours in a Travelodge in the afternoon. H once totalled up that he and I spent more time together in a week than he and the OW had over 8 months, which brought it all into perspective and maybe explains why it is so easy to maintain the fantasy element of some A's which enables Fog. I will add that not all A's are like this and that I am sure there are many long term relationships that have their roots in an A. But, they would have to evolve from the Fog stage, which many don't. 5
Spark1111 Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 I hope this isn't ot, maybe is it and if so, apologies. I read this and I thought well that describes a lot of what I felt when I found out the truth about xmm not being stbd nor separated. I had to come to grips with the anger and realizing I didn't have a clue who he really was. I was not in a fog, was I? I was conned, wasn't I? You bet you were....just like a BS. Fog is knowing and not caring, so proceeding anyway because it feels so good to pretend to be someone I am not....usually. 3
Spark1111 Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 For me: the "fog" of a relationship is essentially the honey moon phase. When I met my ex and was dating it was the honeymoon phase (it is neurologically real, the first four years of a relationship are a high dose of oxytocin and dopamine). In addition to the bonding and happy hormones that are common with new relationships the circumstances of our dating time were conducive to a happier relationship. No worries about how to split duties with kids, no parenting issues, no money issues, no fights over responsibilities. The relationship was all about fun time: hang out, have sex, have fun, go home to our separate lives. And then we married, we had kids, we built careers, we had responsibilities and suddenly our relationship wasn't just about having fun anymore, it included HUGe hurdles of survival and duties. That crap revealed things about one another that only those experiences can reveal. Affairs are similar. The new rush of hormones, hyped up by the danger and forbiden-ness, isolate from the REAL burdens of life. But just like a marriage can be dampened by reality, so too do affairs. And the numbers prove it, affairs rarely result in marriage and when they do they have a way higher failure rate... So wish I could make the world take courses on the psychology of love, what is different between love and desire, how those conflict, what traits actually enable long term relationships, etc. Affairs are much more addictive in the highs and then lows of happy hormones BECAUSE by virtue of their secretive and hidden nature, the reward is intermittent only. Like me, having to WAIT 30 minutes to crush candy, or pay .99 cents to do so. THAT'S INTERMITTENT REWARD and it is highly addicting. 2
merrmeade Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) This thread has been one of the most helpful - such an eye-opener. I didn't realize that the 'fog' kept so many brains gummed up in so many ways! I thought it was just BS fog, but this explains why my SIL (the OW) and my WH created such an elaborate social framework around their relationship. That's also why I really and truly believe that they tried so hard to control the sexual tension and deny the "accidents" as anomolies. They simply could not be those people; it was NOT an affair and they were "just friends." H was the 'family member' coming in to save his BIL's family with physical and emotional support. (It scares me to think of what was accepted as advice from him.) They constantly flirted and sexted though not graphically - just enough on the edge to be scintillating but not enough to be official A territory. This is why he could get off the phone with her after d-Day and tearfully insist it WAS "90% friendship." They actually BELIEVED the other 10% didn't count as just a series of accidents that had gotten out of hand when the backrubs and hugs, which she gives everyone, went too far and somebody's bra came off and somebody's p**** got inside somebody's mouth and somebody's genitalia got wherever it got. [i kid you not. They believed that these were "accidents" that they could hide and forget. No one was supposed to know, and they were going to stop.] What has been missing for me was her half of the fog-world. By the time I got the truth out of WH, he was mostly out of it because he had to deal with my complete unraveling and constant questions. I'd also made him read (at BH's suggestion) "How to Help Your Spouse After Your Affair." She had no d-Day, no BS to face, so her interactions with me, necessary for practical reasons, were utterly confusing and devastating to me. I thought she was simply the devil incarnate sent to torture me repeatedly, but now I see that she was completely befuddled and lost. To me, H quickly called a spade a spade - her strange excuses were 'rationalizing.' I understand the emails and how it started. He'd presented himself as this good and humble, philosophical rebel with incredible health and financial needs, who was still willing to make any sacrifice for the welfare of others in more dire need. And so, before she knew it, he was months into his helping mode following my brother's stroke with my father's encouragement and the entire extended family's cooing approval. I, too, was writing my gratitude and blessings from afar. Who could find fault with her suffering and his magnanimity at that point? This also helps a lot to understand why there were so many contradictions in her behavior. One minute she treated me as a demon person who had no friends and was genetically rude to others and the next she was reminding me of my dead mother and hoping we could be friends again. She really saw herself as a good person who had not done anything wrong and had been victimized by life's injustices. This has plagued me for months. How - when I was completely wracked with pain and grief from the betrayal of these two people - did she treat me like the perpetrator?! It has been the blow I simply could not get over in all of this, but now I get it. It's because she simply could not acknowledge what they were doing and had done. She'd not done anything wrong. AND whatever their conversations had entailed, she had become convinced that I did not love or deserve him. But it wasn't all fog and the "fog" is NOT absolution. I also have the memory of her presence when H had an operation - before d-Day. While I watched, she gave him a backrub before the surgery, ordered all the healthcare providers around and ridiculed me. I realized at the time that it was a side of her I'd never seen but thought she was simply under stress. Now, I know she was doing what she felt like doing because I was clueless and because she thought he needed her. It was bizarre but possible because of the cloak of family connection. Yet, even understanding it as the fog, I can never, ever go anywhere near her and hope my brother outlives me. Edited April 19, 2013 by merrmeade
merrmeade Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Here is a simultaneous thread that really gets into the fog business. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/387213-fog-aps-take It's in The Other Man / Woman forum. How have I missed these?? Fog, I guess.
Spark1111 Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 This thread has been one of the most helpful - such an eye-opener. I didn't realize that the 'fog' kept so many brains gummed up in so many ways! I thought it was just BS fog, but this explains why my SIL (the OW) and my WH created such an elaborate social framework around their relationship. That's also why I really and truly believe that they tried so hard to control the sexual tension and deny the "accidents" as anomolies. They simply could not be those people; it was NOT an affair and they were "just friends." H was the 'family member' coming in to save his BIL's family with physical and emotional support. (It scares me to think of what was accepted as advice from him.) They constantly flirted and sexted though not graphically - just enough on the edge to be scintillating but not enough to be official A territory. This is why he could get off the phone with her after d-Day and tearfully insist it WAS "90% friendship." They actually BELIEVED the other 10% didn't count as just a series of accidents that had gotten out of hand when the backrubs and hugs, which she gives everyone, went too far and somebody's bra came off and somebody's p**** got inside somebody's mouth and somebody's genitalia got wherever it got. [i kid you not. They believed that these were "accidents" that they could hide and forget. No one was supposed to know, and they were going to stop.] What has been missing for me was her half of the fog-world. By the time I got the truth out of WH, he was mostly out of it because he had to deal with my complete unraveling and constant questions. I'd also made him read (at BH's suggestion) "How to Help Your Spouse After Your Affair." She had no d-Day, no BS to face, so her interactions with me, necessary for practical reasons, were utterly confusing and devastating to me. I thought she was simply the devil incarnate sent to torture me repeatedly, but now I see that she was completely befuddled and lost. To me, H quickly called a spade a spade - her strange excuses were 'rationalizing.' I understand the emails and how it started. He'd presented himself as this good and humble, philosophical rebel with incredible health and financial needs, who was still willing to make any sacrifice for the welfare of others in more dire need. And so, before she knew it, he was months into his helping mode following my brother's stroke with my father's encouragement and the entire extended family's cooing approval. I, too, was writing my gratitude and blessings from afar. Who could find fault with her suffering and his magnanimity at that point? This also helps a lot to understand why there were so many contradictions in her behavior. One minute she treated me as a demon person who had no friends and was genetically rude to others and the next she was reminding me of my dead mother and hoping we could be friends again. She really saw herself as a good person who had not done anything wrong and had been victimized by life's injustices. This has plagued me for months. How - when I was completely wracked with pain and grief from the betrayal of these two people - did she treat me like the perpetrator?! It has been the blow I simply could not get over in all of this, but now I get it. It's because she simply could not acknowledge what they were doing and had done. She'd not done anything wrong. AND whatever their conversations had entailed, she had become convinced that I did not love or deserve him. But it wasn't all fog and the "fog" is NOT absolution. I also have the memory of her presence when H had an operation - before d-Day. While I watched, she gave him a backrub before the surgery, ordered all the healthcare providers around and ridiculed me. I realized at the time that it was a side of her I'd never seen but thought she was simply under stress. Now, I know she was doing what she felt like doing because I was clueless and because she thought he needed her. It was bizarre but possible because of the cloak of family connection. Yet, even understanding it as the fog, I can never, ever go anywhere near her and hope my brother outlives me. Mermeade, try having her show up at your FIL's funeral, a man who adored me and thought I was the best thing that had ever happened for my WS, and snub you, to the point I thought, "oh, maybe she is hard of hearing in this ear?":laugh: She came to bore personal strength into him and ignored me! I remember her hands on her hips as her eyes blazed into his as he greeted his family in the back of the room as I tried to say, hello, I remember you, have you been? And thought she was deaf!:bunny: You can't make this stuff up. keep reading. So many are bats$&t crazy! I say you call her up and give her a piece of your mind. today. Right now.
seren Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 It's early here in the UK, H got up for work and I am looking through old Psychology course papers for reference to Fog, which of course isn't likely to turn up any academic reference as the term Fog is a metaphor to describe the feelings, emotions and state of a person. Who knows, maybe someone will decide it actually needs a label to make it real, while those who have described their feelings as Fog will have a Hallelujiah moment and say, that's it, that's the academic word I was searching for to describe how I feel/felt, therefore it validates what I (general) meant. Yeah OK. Maybe the same researchers and academics will actually take the time to talk to and more importantly listen to those who have these feelings and use the term Fog to inform their research. I can only hope. H asks, why have you got all your old papers out? so I tell him about the frustrating discussion re affair Fog. H says until his psychologist and counsellor used the term he struggled to find a way to describe how he felt and that Fog described it best. I asked if he knew he was in fog when the A was ongoing, he says that he knew that what he was doing was wrong, went against his value base and that he was only able to do it by putting his home life and the A life into separate boxes (compartmentalising). To rationalise what he did in box B (affair) he had to minimise box A, otherwise reality would make him face up to just what a crappy thing he was doing. He says that the A was where he was an utter b****** openly, I have heard from he and OW about the A and I have to say, had he treated me that way I would have thrown him under a moving bus. At home, the best word I can use is distracted, just slightly off kilter, not right, but having asked if there was someone else, something wrong and been told no and it's work, I believed. Some might choose to call that fog, I call it believing the man I loved and trusted. So, back to H and our too early in the morning for lengthy deep conversation. I ask, so, when did you realise that you were in fog, he says that just before D Day he came to see me when I was public speaking about trauma. He says he saw me hold the stage, hold my audience in the palm of my hand and felt so proud and so lucky to have me, he saw me be given a standing ovation, be congratulated and thank him for his support, He said at that moment he realised that what he had was what he wanted, and that it contrasted so much with the hidden, mostly tawdry, destructive A that it was like having cataracts and then being able to see clearly. The word Fog came later. I say, but it was always there and he says yes, but he wasn't, he was so tied up in me, me, me (him, him, him) and not feeling good enough that he forgot who I was, what we were and what we had. If I never find a psychological explanation that specifically mentions the word Fog I shan't lose sleep. H said, does it matter if Freud, Maslow, Jung, Erikson or Skinner (that's all he knew) hasn't hung a tag on it, most A's were pretty hidden when these were doing the rounds and that at some point Measles would have been called the spotty red rash that could kill people until someone called it Measles, (bit like chicken or egg argument) got to love his reasoning. What matters is that here, in our world, in our life and our experience we understand the why's and that we have accepted and faced them, owned our own contribution and that we are where we want to be. Which puts it all into perspective, call it what you will, he and I are we and us because we have reconciled our marriage and relationship, we love are loved and TBH, you can call it a fluffy pink cloud or a toadstool, for us it is our reality and I would rather be here right now, knowing all that has gone before, than how it was during the A. H has now left, before he left we hugged, snogged and I reflected that reality is now, here on our back door, surrounded by our dogs and hens and Freud or Jung can go hang, I'll take my happy marriage over any cold, paper anyday. 9
seren Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 FIMY, I agree, I have listened to BS (that's betrayed spouse, not the other), MY H, who was a WS and read what OW, both former and current have said and TBH, I have no experience of being an OW so can only base my view on what the other two groups are saying. Of course, each has their own take on it and neither should close their minds to the views of the other, or try to tell people they have no experience of their own experience - that would be BS (not betrayed spouse, the other). I have and will never enable anyone to badmouth the OW H had an affair with. Nor have or will ever enable H to deny the A, but I don't need labels to understand the why's, H has seen psychologists a'plenty, who use the term Fog to describe his actions and feelings at that time, I have heard countless people use the term to describe how they feel, both on and off this board, so I just go with how they describe what they are experiencing. Had H loved the OW and left he would still describe how he felt and acted as being in a Fog. I just wish some debates were gentler and remember that some people come here in the wee small hours feeling lost, alone, hurt and looking for answers. Maybe we (general) should take discussion to the General Relationships board to avoid that for all sides.
2.50 a gallon Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 What AtheistScholar said, it is a form of infatuation, the love chemicals kick in, intensified by the danger, the fantasy, while at the same time still connected with their SO and their families. And also, whereas in a normal relationship, the couple can choose to meet at any time, in an affair, generally there is no such freedom. The couple have to secretly take what time they can get, sometimes and hour here, and an hour two days later, which also intensifies their feelings for each other in the limited time that they have 1
merrmeade Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Mermeade, try having her show up at your FIL's funeral, a man who adored me and thought I was the best thing that had ever happened for my WS, and snub you, to the point I thought, "oh, maybe she is hard of hearing in this ear?":laugh: She came to bore personal strength into him and ignored me! I remember her hands on her hips as her eyes blazed into his as he greeted his family in the back of the room as I tried to say, hello, I remember you, have you been? And thought she was deaf!:bunny: You can't make this stuff up. keep reading. So many are bats$&t crazy! I say you call her up and give her a piece of your mind. today. Right now. OMG, Spark! Was the funeral pre- or post d-Day? What it is - and no fog excuse can mitigate this - is TRAUMA pure and simple when someone, who has already taken the sacred vow of marital intimacy from you, dehumanizes you like that. So that's what my SIL/OW does to me in her fake innocence as the eternal tragic victim; I don't dare put myself through another confrontation or phone call as you suggest. It takes me a while to get the words right in one of these posts; I'd have to plan such a phone call which sort of defeats the purpose. And besides, did I mention she's a freakin' lawyer??!! In the first confrontation on the phone she immediately flipped the conversation, pinned me to the ground in a cross-examination headlock that made me the loser and her the winner in several categories like who has the most friends (proof she could be "just friends" with H, right?). She had me hugging her by evening in apology for my rudeness. Ummm, no thanks. I will lose every boxing match I enter with this woman who has f ock ed me - er - fogged me enough for several lifetimes. 1
Spark1111 Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 What AtheistScholar said, it is a form of infatuation, the love chemicals kick in, intensified by the danger, the fantasy, while at the same time still connected with their SO and their families. And also, whereas in a normal relationship, the couple can choose to meet at any time, in an affair, generally there is no such freedom. The couple have to secretly take what time they can get, sometimes and hour here, and an hour two days later, which also intensifies their feelings for each other in the limited time that they have Intermittent reward creates addiction. 2
Spark1111 Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 OMG, Spark! Was the funeral pre- or post d-Day? What it is - and no fog excuse can mitigate this - is TRAUMA pure and simple when someone, who has already taken the sacred vow of marital intimacy from you, dehumanizes you like that. So that's what my SIL/OW does to me in her fake innocence as the eternal tragic victim; I don't dare put myself through another confrontation or phone call as you suggest. It takes me a while to get the words right in one of these posts; I'd have to plan such a phone call which sort of defeats the purpose. And besides, did I mention she's a freakin' lawyer??!! In the first confrontation on the phone she immediately flipped the conversation, pinned me to the ground in a cross-examination headlock that made me the loser and her the winner in several categories like who has the most friends (proof she could be "just friends" with H, right?). She had me hugging her by evening in apology for my rudeness. Ummm, no thanks. I will lose every boxing match I enter with this woman who has f ock ed me - er - fogged me enough for several lifetimes. Ahh, that sounds like a horse of a different color; a bi-polar or borderline one. Best not to touch that with a ten-foot pole. Shut the barn door on that one for good, I would think. She is not only never wrong, she obviously and insecurely competes with you. She is very jealous of you. Imagine that? 2
merrmeade Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) I think this was the reality for the APs in my situation (these were copied from the other "fog" thread that was closed yesterday): Praying4Peace These fog threads always make my brain smoke but as a married woman having an affair I'll give you my take (which I also told my therapist)- Think of it as a song playing. The 'fog' is the volume. The 'fog' allowed these types of behaviors in my case: -calling or texting first thing in the morning, last thing at night and anytime in between if my eye were to open. -spending literally every single waking moment on the phone or texting. -Sitting anywhere and talking for hours and hours. Yes, in boring parking lots. All this is because you are desperate for contact and normal single people don't act obsessed in this way. That said- there is more than that. There is the part that underlies the 'fog': - The deep connection. -The comfortableness. I was as comfortable with him as my H in no time at all -The feelings of real love. We didn't have it easy and we had arguments, we had our ups and downs but excellent communication skills. Anyone who's been in it would understand. Damn I miss him now. So happy together Unless someone is in the background with a pendulum saying "You are getting veeeerrryyyy sleeeeepppyyyy", you just have to take responsibility for your actions. Sorry. I take responsibility for mine. I don't feel I make excuses. Were there reasons? Sure. But excuses? I don't think so. I think if it was a 'normal' relationship with a single man and single woman, the same hormones/pheromones would still be present, but it would be okay because everyone would smile and say "She/he is in LOVE". Remember that woman you see floating around the office with a perpetual grin on her face? It's love! Now when you find out her man is married? It's FOG! Give me just the smallest break. What I don't get is that she clearly acted like she was in love - and he went along with it and egged her on. I'm not saying this based on what he says but on my own investigation - emails, phone texts mostly. He dropped her like a hot potato after d-Day which impresses me not at all. There was a lot to lose in the shame department. I can't write any more for a few days. Getting sick to my stomach again thinking of it all. PTSD coming back... Wait a minute... Why do we do this again - torture ourselves remembering all this crap? Can someone remind me? Edited April 20, 2013 by merrmeade
BetrayedH Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I think this was the reality for the APs in my situation (these were copied from the other "fog" thread that was closed yesterday): What I don't get is that she clearly acted like she was in love - and he went along with it and egged her on. I'm not saying this based on what he says but on my own investigation - emails, phone texts mostly. He dropped her like a hot potato after d-Day which impresses me not at all. There was a lot to lose in the shame department. I can't write any more for a few days. Getting sick to my stomach again thinking of it all. PTSD coming back... Wait a minute... Why do we do this again - torture ourselves remembering all this crap? Can someone remind me? Because stuffing it all down just makes you regurgitate it later in a much less controlled fashion. That's the short answer, anyway.
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