explain the "fog"

[wanting more]

I thought I understood that but the more I think about the more confused I am. (not sure if this is the right spot for this)

 

 

When I was in the A, my feelings we're genuine. I really did love him. I loved everything about him. Yes it was fun and exciting but I did love him. I was true with him. I didn't lie to him. I didn't talk bad about my SO to him. When it ended, it ended horrible. There was (and is) a lot of anger towards him now. He's even left me a few voicemails recently, it didn't have the effect on me I think he wanted. It pissed me off.

 

The fog. Is that what people think I was in DURING the A?? My feelings for him were genuine. Of course I now know the man I thought I loved, wasn't that man. But at the time I didn't realize that. Or was the fog right AFTER the A ended?? Yes I missed him, but I realized more then that I missed who I thought he was. I don't think I'm in a fog now but when I think about it, was I in a fog??

[Ninja'sHusband]

I thought I understood that but the more I think about the more confused I am. (not sure if this is the right spot for this)

 

 

When I was in the A, my feelings we're genuine. I really did love him. I loved everything about him. Yes it was fun and exciting but I did love him. I was true with him. I didn't lie to him. I didn't talk bad about my SO to him. When it ended, it ended horrible. There was (and is) a lot of anger towards him now. He's even left me a few voicemails recently, it didn't have the effect on me I think he wanted. It pissed me off.

 

The fog. Is that what people think I was in DURING the A?? My feelings for him were genuine. Of course I now know the man I thought I loved, wasn't that man. But at the time I didn't realize that. Or was the fog right AFTER the A ended?? Yes I missed him, but I realized more then that I missed who I thought he was. I don't think I'm in a fog now but when I think about it, was I in a fog??

I think the bolded is the crux of it. Affairs are a fantasy. You haven't been tested with real life and that person yet. You don't know who they are. You've got this fantasy of them. It's a crazy fog. Maybe you didn't dis your BS so much, but most do. My WW claimed she didn't bad mouth me, but I have proof she did.

[wanting more]

And that makes sense to me some.

 

But if I didn't know who he was during the A, would that apply to BSs?? (no disrespect). Because during the A, Who you think your WS is, he/she really isn't. Do we all go thru a fog? I see that term used a lot and just really trying to understand

 

 

 

Ninjas husband, Ive read your stories and followed your threads. I'm sorry what you've gone thru. I know many people talk bad about their BSs, I didn't talk about mine and xMM never talked about his. I know it doesnt matter at this point but we didn't.

[AnotherRound]

It seems to me that some folks define the fog as being completely in emotional mind and not at all in logical mind or wise mind (dialectical behavioral therapy is where these terms come from). I could agree that some people live their lives in emotional mind only - never in logical or wise mind - but I do not believe this to be the majority of people - and I don't think it's any different in regards to affairs.

 

I think pretending that most/all affairs are all about having no logic is naive at best. I don't live in my emotional mind, in fact would be better off if I could get into it more than I do - and I participated in an affair. Most people do not run around with no logic playing into their decisions - including most people in who have affairs.

 

I would say, don't let people convince you that you were "in a fog". Maybe you were - but most likely, imo, you weren't. Everyone can look back with hindsight and have "better" perspective - that isn't a "fog" - it's just reality and the way things work.

 

Do you think you were in a fog? Or are in one now? Are you basing your decisions completely and 100% with no logic mixed in at all? Probably not - and imo, there is no "fog" - it's just a catch all for people that want to minimize what was happening (IMO) to better be able to handle where they are now (dismissing something is MUCH easier than actually dealing with it head on).

[Ninja'sHusband]

And that makes sense to me some.

 

But if I didn't know who he was during the A, would that apply to BSs?? (no disrespect). Because during the A, Who you think your WS is, he/she really isn't. Do we all go thru a fog? I see that term used a lot and just really trying to understand

 

 

 

Ninjas husband, Ive read your stories and followed your threads. I'm sorry what you've gone thru. I know many people talk bad about their BSs, I didn't talk about mine and xMM never talked about his. I know it doesnt matter at this point but we didn't.

 

Sure, I think most BSs go through a period of turning a blind eye because they think their spouse would never betray them in a million years. I was like that, I think many BSs on this forum were like that as well. We don't often use the term "fog" for that, but I think it could apply. I certainly learned to never shut my eyes after going through what I did. I think that's more how we refer to it, going around with blinders on.

[guilted]

As a former WW I dont agree with the fog and think people use it as an excuse or use it to try to justify their Wayward behaviour. How is the fog any different from falling in love in a legit relationship? when you meet someone you are blind to their faults, you tend to overlook things and fall in love with their positives. i am not trying to be disrespectful it is just that i take full responsibility for my selfishness and hate to see people use it as an excuse instead of working on themselves and understanding why it happened. i knew what i was doing...there is no excuse.

[Athens]

The fact that you could not see all of this coming is the definition of being in a fog...affairs rarely end well and what you are going through is the norm of a deceitful relationship that you entered knowing you were with a MM. That, sadly for you, is the definition of the affair fog. My husbands OW was in one too, he told her how it would end, that he would always be with me and she kidded herself into believing otherwise. I can tell by her desperate messages that she fooled herself, she even references how he said it would end and it did....

[Ninja'sHusband]

As a former WW I dont agree with the fog and think people use it as an excuse or use it to try to justify their Wayward behaviour. How is the fog any different from falling in love in a legit relationship? when you meet someone you are blind to their faults, you tend to overlook things and fall in love with their positives. i am not trying to be disrespectful it is just that i take full responsibility for my selfishness and hate to see people use it as an excuse instead of working on themselves and understanding why it happened. i knew what i was doing...there is no excuse.

 

I'm not sure anyone is saying it's an excuse. Did you realize at the time that the affair was a fantasy? Maybe you didn't have a fog. My WW probably wasn't so foggy either. She wasn't falling over herself to be with her MM. She actually told him that she would never compare to his wife and his family and wasn't seeking to take her place. So, in her case maybe fog doesn't apply. Then again she did bad mouth me to the OM...fog that way I guess. Still, she knew *exactly* what she was doing as well. Fantasy or not, I think all WSs know what they are doing is wrong. No excuse.

[wanting more]

I wasn't trying to use it as an excuse. I've heard it many times on here and especially today. It just got me wondering.

[carhill]

Our psychologist explained it as emotional confusion; a state where one has difficulty cognitively processing their emotions into consistent behaviors comparing favorably with their normal and historical behavioral sets. When we spoke of clarifying emotions, it was to 'cut through the fog' and to see actions and their emotional impetuses clearly. I had never heard the term before, but read it here on LS so talked about it in MC to understand my own version better. Frankly, during that period, I thought I was going crazy, but that was mostly from caring for a psychotic person. Marked emotional stress was occurring and I was processing it poorly. MC helped.

[Furious]

But if I didn't know who he was during the A, would that apply to BSs?? (no disrespect). Because during the A, Who you think your WS is, he/she really isn't. Do we all go thru a fog? I see that term used a lot and just really trying to

 

As a betrayed spouse I don't think I was in a fog, in the sense that I had no reason to not trust my husband, but the OW knew my husband was lying to me and still she trusted him.

 

I hope this makes sense.

[Spark1111]

It's EXTREME cognitive dissonance when your affair feelings collide with the reality of lying and betraying your spouse and family.

 

I saw it after DDay, when nothing coming out of his mouth made much sense to me or anyone else who had known and loved him for a long time.

 

It was bizarre! BUT not excused. I threw him out.

[krazikat]

The fact that you could not see all of this coming is the definition of being in a fog...affairs rarely end well and what you are going through is the norm of a deceitful relationship that you entered knowing you were with a MM. That, sadly for you, is the definition of the affair fog. My husbands OW was in one too, he told her how it would end, that he would always be with me and she kidded herself into believing otherwise. I can tell by her desperate messages that she fooled herself, she even references how he said it would end and it did....

 

My h fow also did this, in her messages to him after he ended it, which was before dday, she said she never should have chased what was already gone, and that he only ended it because he felt guilty getting p****. Classy. Yet she then told me she dumped him, and other lovely tales not realizing the texts i had seen...but even tho he had already dumped her and all that, after dday she called over and over, hundreds of times, sent texts about how much she loves him and that they would never be over, etc.

 

Is that a fog? It just seems weird to me, why someone would act this way on/after dday when the A had already ended.

[seren]

My H doesn't call it fog, he calls it the time he had his head up his own arse. He acknowledges that during the A he felt he was living in two worlds, one where he was being a tosser, the other where he was still being a tosser but one where he felt he could forget all that he felt he had screwed up. Compartmentalising is probably the best way to explain it, when he was in our world he wasn't able to hide (in fog) and then felt so crap, not only because of the A, but how he felt about himself and life. The way he reacted to this was to push, distance himself from me and us, if he was to be succesful in hiding his A, he had to be different from my lovely H or I would have picked up on it. I, like many BS, assume stress is the reason, we ask what is wrong are told stress, we ask if there is another, are told no, we are loved and that 'it isn't you', and because we love we believe. Nothing foggy about that, just trusting the person we love.

 

The fog, as I understand it from my H, was that had he stopped and looked at what he was doing, he would have had a hard job justifying what he did, he had to believe that what we had was wrong, that things were that bad, that there was no other avenue and that he was entitled to behave this way. Fog clouds judgement, it allows for people to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. Hurting another being amongst that, to be able to rationalise that many AP's attribute characteristics to their marriage or partner that enables them to feel entitled to be happy with another. It wasn't quite that way for H, but some was.

[krazikat]

My H doesn't call it fog, he calls it the time he had his head up his own arse. He acknowledges that during the A he felt he was living in two worlds, one where he was being a tosser, the other where he was still being a tosser but one where he felt he could forget all that he felt he had screwed up. Compartmentalising is probably the best way to explain it, when he was in our world he wasn't able to hide (in fog) and then felt so crap, not only because of the A, but how he felt about himself and life. The way he reacted to this was to push, distance himself from me and us, if he was to be succesful in hiding his A, he had to be different from my lovely H or I would have picked up on it. I, like many BS, assume stress is the reason, we ask what is wrong are told stress, we ask if there is another, are told no, we are loved and that 'it isn't you', and because we love we believe. Nothing foggy about that, just trusting the person we love.

 

The fog, as I understand it from my H, was that had he stopped and looked at what he was doing, he would have had a hard job justifying what he did, he had to believe that what we had was wrong, that things were that bad, that there was no other avenue and that he was entitled to behave this way. Fog clouds judgement, it allows for people to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. Hurting another being amongst that, to be able to rationalise that many AP's attribute characteristics to their marriage or partner that enables them to feel entitled to be happy with another. It wasn't quite that way for H, but some was.

 

My h also said he had to compartmentalize us to continue, he started the A at a time he thought I was going to leave...heck I remember those times, I did push him away amd did tell him I was going to D...but when our relationship improved months after the A had staryed, he was having a hard time giving her up, so he continued and compartmentalized each relationship. But his drinking became worse, and he started using drugs...with her. I didnt even know about all that, and i attributed drinking as the reasons things seemed off at times, but yikes. I have read that many ww compartmentalize to help them deal with the A and carry on. It is ugly business.

[BetrayedH]

I think of it mostly as a BS trying to comprehend their wayward. In my case, I didn't think my wife capable of the things she did. But the more I read, the more I saw that these things can follow a pattern. One example is the rewriting of marital history. Many waywards cross one boundary after another, get addicted to the thrill of a new partner, and only then start looking back at their marriage as if they haven't be happy for years or that they never loved their spouse. Then enters more rationalization and compartmentalization. He wayward is doing things that violate their own standards. They're pursuing something that has little hope of bearing good fruit but they keep investing anyway and push aside the guilt. They just keep investing in the fantasy and pretending that real life isn't going to intrude. An affair is many times just a fantasy escape from reality. It's like a honeymoon, replete with hotel stays and new romance. In an affair dynamic, there are no kids, no dishes, no soccer games, no laundry, no shared finances. And both APs only show each other their best sides. They wear their best clothes, jewelry, and cologne. They are flush with compliments and ripe for no-holds barred sex (because if you're going to go out on this limb, you might as well go for the gusto). The spouse at home has no chance at competing with this fantasy. In many cases, they're left managing those real-life problems since their spouse is distant, disinterested, and detached (if they're around at all). The wayward associates the BS with that boring life and associates the AP with the escape from it all.

 

But would real-life with the AP always be like this? Heck no. You'd find that they are human, have quirks that drive you nuts, kids, soccer games, etc.. The fantasy can never be real but some ignore that and keep investing far beyond what is realistic.

 

When Dday hits, the fog is blown away (sometimes faster than others). Reality can hit them square in the face like a Mack truck. Suddenly the affair is no fun at all. Friends and family are shocked and unaccepting. An undeserving spouse is destroyed by betrayal. There are no more hotel stays. Calls to each other are frantic attempts to coordinate cover stories. Sexting is over. One or both APs throw the other under the bus, telling their spouse how they never loved the AP but were relentlessly pursued. NC may happen out of the blue, suddenly destroying thoughts of having been soulmates. Most betrayed spouses (about 80-90% of them) initially try to stay with their wayward, which reveals that they weren't awful spouses to begin with but in fact, are trying to forgive out of love for the wayward.

 

As time passes, the wayward sees the affair for the fantasy that it was more and more. Consequences come to bear. Children have to be consoled. Betrayed spouses need answers. Keeping the affair is nearly impossible and it's no fun anymore anyway. The wayward slowly starts to accept that the fantasy must be released and reality must be addressed. This is the fog lifting.

 

I think it is even more pronounced in EAs because those are almost entirely fantasy driven and the odds of leaving a real-life spouse for a long-distance EA are slim to none. Hopefully Owl will chime in because he saw his wife's EA fog lift firsthand. She was living in a fantasy world and almost gave up a good spouse and life for it.

 

I can't speak as well on foggy behavior by OW/OM. I suppose buying into the fantasy of a MM is very similar to what I've described. There's plenty of irrational thought that gets OW involved and keeps them there (many of them anyway).

 

Betrayed spouses go thru a different sort of fog. In the initial days after Dday, some of us (I put myself in this group) are in a state of desperation about salvaging the marriage and our nuclear families. We believe the gaslighting and trickle-truth that we're fed. We villify the "other" person. We believe crazy stuff, like that it was a two-year affair and they only held hands and kissed "once." We so desperately want to "fix" what has happened "to" our wayward spouse that we offer forgiveness before it's even requested. We'll do anything to save the marriage before we even decide if it should be saved. It's a knee-jerk reaction that has it's basis in denial. Trickle-truth usually does this one in if it's not also helped along by broken NC and false reconciliations. It can take betrayed spouses a while before they accept that their wayward made a lot of conscious choices and that it wasn't a mistake or an accident.

 

There are exceptions to all of this, of course. But there seems to he some remarkably consistent patterns of denying reality as long as possible. Snd i think that's what people are talking about being the fog.

 

All that said, I happen to agree with one of the previous posters (a former wayward) that refuses to acknowledge the existence of "the fog." Frankly, I think that's wise. No mysterious force makes us make poor decisions. You can't say, "I don't know why I did it; I was foggy." You have to keep asking, why? In my mind, denying reality for as long as possible is due to either having an excessive need for external validation and/or being severely conflict-avoidant. As for the serial cheaters, I suspect they have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. To be brief, you can't blame the fog for behavior but you can sure recognize it when you see it.

 

My thoughts anyway.

[wanting more]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I had never really thought of it as being in a fog.

Yes I knew he was married. After the 1st night together, it was exciting to think about the next time. The secrecy added to the excitement. We worked together, so this being our secret was almost a game. We went away together soon after and I loved it. It was fun, we laughed, we talked, we drank, we danced, we went to some of the best restaurants. I felt beautiful, wanted, desired (no I don't have low self esteem and a great need for external validation but who doesn't like feeling that way?). We spent a lot of time together, on the phone, at work. (almost embarrassed to say how much). I guess I was addicted to him, to the A and everything that involves. Over time I did fall in love with him. I hadn't felt that in a very long time. My SO and I just existed. There were so many ups and downs in our relationship, I was just dealing with them the best I knew. I was 90% responsible for Everything. Kids, home, finances. I had to do it all. I was chauffeur, cook, maid, Gardner, banker. Everything. And please don't anyone come back and say there are plenty single moms that do it, I know that, I've been a single mom before in a new state knowing one person. But I wasn't a single mom, my SO was there. I needed help, I wanted help, I asked for help, and I never got it. There was resentment there. He used to always say if I'd show him I loved him more, he'd help more. I already had 3 kids, I didn't want a 45 year old one also.

During the A, it was an A and a fantasy. I'd always traveled some with my job so this wasnt new. When xMM and I went away together it was my new world. No responsibility. No cleaning. No cooking. No carting kids to gym, ballet, football, softball. I enjoyed my A for that reason. Do I think I took extra time away from my kids? Yes, some. Was I a happier mom when I was home, yes.

 

Fog, fantasy, fu**ed up situation. I guess all of them apply at certain stages of my A.

 

Was I selfish, yes. Was I wrong, yes. I'm in no way trying to justify or excuse what I've done. This is one of the hardest things Ive ever dealt with, dealing with. This was the toughest lesson I've ever learned. It Definately won't be a "mistake" I ever make again

 

Sorry. Late and I'm rambling to much

Just trying to say how I felt.

[waterwoman]

I guess I see it as being a way for the WS to continue the affair despite their natural qualms. H loved OW. He loved me. H didn't want to leave me therefore it wasn't an exit affair. He told himself I wouldn't care and I wouldn't find out anyway. On d-day he was horrified at how hurt I was, how crazy with pain I was, how I wouldn't let him touch me for 24 hrs, how I refused to get undressed in front of him. The fog hid the reality of his actions from him - made everything look fuzzy and soft and painless.

[Got it]

Our psychologist explained it as emotional confusion; a state where one has difficulty cognitively processing their emotions into consistent behaviors comparing favorably with their normal and historical behavioral sets. When we spoke of clarifying emotions, it was to 'cut through the fog' and to see actions and their emotional impetuses clearly. I had never heard the term before, but read it here on LS so talked about it in MC to understand my own version better. Frankly, during that period, I thought I was going crazy, but that was mostly from caring for a psychotic person. Marked emotional stress was occurring and I was processing it poorly. MC helped.

 

Thank you carhill for giving a very good explanation of what Fog is supposed to mean.

 

I have struggled with the term, as based on my other comments in another thread, as I see it as a degree, even microscopic degree, of excusability or lack of ownership of one's actions. I have always viewed my actions in a very stark light and have not subscribed to the Fog idea because of it. I own what I did and there is nothing that contributed to lessening it. In my eyes.

[Decorative]

As a betrayed spouse I don't think I was in a fog, in the sense that I had no reason to not trust my husband, but the OW knew my husband was lying to me and still she trusted him.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

The truth bias, is what that is.

 

The marital relationship implies the conveyance of trust.

 

Not a fog.

https://www.msu.edu/~levinet/deception.htm?False

[BetrayedH]

The truth bias, is what that is.

 

The marital relationship implies the conveyance of trust.

 

Not a fog.

https://www.msu.edu/~levinet/deception.htm?False

 

I would agree that BSs are not in any kind of fog pre-Dday/during the affair. In my case, I was very effectively lied to by the person I trusted most. I was blindsided, gaslighted, and intentionally deceived. My trust was taken advantage of.

 

As for those that insist, "you must have known" or that I buried my head in the sand, I would then love an explanation for why I lost 38lbs, couldn't sleep, and had 3 therapists indicate that I had PTSD. Who goes through that over learning something that that they already knew? It's a bullcrap argument made by people that want to lie to themselves about the potential damage they'll unleash should the truth actually be found out.

[BetrayedH]

By the way, great article, Decorative. The idea that we should be detecting non-verbal cues from our spouses is pretty well blown out of the water with that one.

[Decorative]

By the way, great article, Decorative. The idea that we should be detecting non-verbal cues from our spouses is pretty well blown out of the water with that one.

 

I sure think so!

[beenburned]

The majority of OW that post here are involved in love affairs.(short and long) Therefore they would experience the same first stage love emotions that all relationships have.

 

However, stats say that the majority of all infidelity is ONS, FBs, FWB. Therefore love is not involved to cause this emotional state of mind witnessed in other types of affairs.

 

The sole purpose is fast easy sex without the emotions.(agreed upon by both parties) In the mind of a serial cheater, the constant hunt is clearly thought and planned out.

 

However, as with any type of relationship, as it progresses sometimes the APs have completely different expectations in many areas.(the seriousness of the affair, the future plans, and where it is all leading to)

 

The MM may suddenly realize his whole world could explode, losing everything he once held dear. So he trys to back off without hurting the OW's feelings, as he is scared she will tell the wife. The OW is totally confused by this as the MM has professed his love for her.

 

Sometimes it is as simple as one of the APs changing their mind about the whole EMA.(just as people change their mind about other past relationships)

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Not Reality v v

After the 1st night together, it was exciting to think about the next time. The secrecy added to the excitement. We worked together, so this being our secret was almost a game. We went away together soon after and I loved it. It was fun, we laughed, we talked, we drank, we danced, we went to some of the best restaurants. I felt beautiful, wanted, desired (no I don't have low self esteem and a great need for external validation but who doesn't like feeling that way?). We spent a lot of time together, on the phone, at work. (almost embarrassed to say how much). I guess I was addicted to him, to the A and everything that involves. Over time I did fall in love with him. I hadn't felt that in a very long time....

 

 

Reality v v

My SO and I just existed. There were so many ups and downs in our relationship, I was just dealing with them the best I knew. I was 90% responsible for Everything. Kids, home, finances. I had to do it all. I was chauffeur, cook, maid, Gardner, banker. Everything.

During the A, it was an A and a fantasy...When xMM and I went away together it was my new world. No responsibility. No cleaning. No cooking. No carting kids to gym, ballet, football, softball. I enjoyed my A for that reason.

 

This is a big part of the fog. The first part is the excitement of a new love connection. The thrill of receiving attention from another person. At this point it is so easy to project onto the new person. You really don't know this person, but you think you do because of the projection.

 

The second part is what you have described so well: it's not real. With an affair the partners get the all of fun and excitement without the baggage of life's responsibilities. We all know that living with a person for an extended time takes the luster off the SO. In your list, how can any husband compete with an AP that doesn't have to worry about kids, home, finances, carting kids around, laundry, etc.

 

For my wife's affair I couldn't compete with her AP. Their relationship was based on the fun superficial surface stuff: hanging out for fun and passionate sex. Meanwhile I'm working to pay the bills, I'm doing the house work, managing the finances (which were tight!), doing laundry, taking care of the cars, landscaping, going through the mail,.... all of the NOT-fun activities. I was doing the boring stuff that is necessary for living in the adult world of responsibility. Her AP didn't have to worry about any of that. He just had to "date" her without any of the homefront responsibilities.

 

Part of the fog is living in this fantasy world and not realizing that it is fantasy.