When there are no kids...

[Elfie]

Many MM's use the kids as a reason for staying, but what's the truth when there are no kids - or the kids are grown up? And those kids were from both BS and MM's previous marriages, so they don't have kids together?

 

I got the "I just can't leave right now" line over and over, but he isn't the major wage earner and their home is rented local authority. They rarely go out together - I could see as I live close by - and it was usually dentist or family visits. He told me times he was snapped at, moaned at, treated like a dosgbody and always being called on to fetch and carry for his married stepdaughter, usually for things she could or should be doing for herself (she is married and in her 30's).

 

He claims she takes care of the money, his wages, post and the bills, he doesn't read well (why he never sent texts but he knew to get a separate mobile just for me) and doesn't use a computer. I didn't know if he felt de-masculinised.

 

His wife works weekdays till late, then runs an internet business in the evening (of course I can see the sales, they're online, so I know they don't spend much time together on the sofa, although it hurt to think some of the time they did) and I would see wine and takeaways - and through all the time together with him, the most he treated me to was some flowers (some were dead) and coffee at a burger store and DIY store (out of the way I guess).

 

So what's their reason for staying in these circumstances? Because I am obviously such a great person that he prefers what he has and it's killing what tiny self esteem I had. It's over, in the end the highs and lows were changing hour by hour, but dealing with it is hard for various reasons and I can't move forward.

[Elfie]

I didn't stay, I left after around 7 months.

[stillafool]

When the MM/MW says they can't leave because of the kids they really mean:

 

I can't leave because deep down I love my spouse and I'm not ready to give up yet.

[crederer]

Most men in affairs will say these things as ways of keeping you around, but don't mean it. Just like for many men in affairs, they'll tell the OW that they love them. Most times, they don't. They use it as a tool for manipulation. Not saying that's always the case, but I can confidently say it is WAY more common.

 

Find a single person and you wont have to worry about this garbage. I think the fact that you state you have low self esteem is likely the reason you willingly got into this relationship in the first place. The guy, outside of the fact that he is having an affair, sounds like a loser.

[Elfie]

Most men in affairs will say these things as ways of keeping you around, but don't mean it. Just like for many men in affairs, they'll tell the OW that they love them. Most times, they don't. They use it as a tool for manipulation. Not saying that's always the case, but I can confidently say it is WAY more common.

 

Find a single person and you wont have to worry about this garbage. I think the fact that you state you have low self esteem is likely the reason you willingly got into this relationship in the first place. The guy, outside of the fact that he is having an affair, sounds like a loser.

 

Yes, he is definitely manipulative, often persuaded me to go out "for a drive" or "to talk", but would always pull into a layby, then stick his hands up/down/in/out etc saying he just wanted to hold me, couldn't help himself etc. Often would say he didn't intend to touch me, and that he "really did mean to just see me". Every time he offered to help me with something he would do his touchy feely first, I guess to make sure it was wroth his while.

 

Once he gave me a chair he's picked up, pulled me aside "away from the neighbours" but pulled me indoors and started on me, i gave in, then manouvering me towards the door, pretty much got shot of me as quickly afterwards. Probably all of 5 minutes, I needed a shower after and it was only 9.15 am.

 

Thank you for saying he sounds like a loser, I think I am, but it helps to hear.

[Got it]

I have always looked at it like people are where they want to be. For whatever reason, for whatever "whys", the good outweighs the bad and something is keeping them where they are. I see a good number of people, in many different areas stay stagnant from fear, fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of happiness. Some people just like to fantasize but never actually walk the talk.

[georgia girl]

Elfie,

 

I genuinely don't think it is ANY type of reflection on you. (Except for maybe your mate selection process - you always want to choose a mate who will commit to you in all the ways you need him to.)

 

Men are not wired like us, first of all. So, I think they may be a bit more successful at separating their lives into small compartments. One is happiness with new love; the other may be happiness with old love. And it may have never been his intention to do anything other than enjoy those two compartments in his life. If, on the other hand, this type of relationship - one that lacks exclusivity - is unacceptable to you, it leads to an obvious fracture. It may be still him that ends up doing the "breaking up," but it could be because that which was once carefree and easy just got complicated. Please hear me: you didn't do anything wrong in asking for what you need and you are NOT less of a person because he didn't give that to you. My opinion would be that he was never going to offer you what you needed (or any other woman for that matter) and there is no way you could be so wonderful as to inspire him to do more. His terms of endearment that he offered to you simply didn't include this.

 

My wish for you would be for you to take from this situation what it is that you absolutely must have from a potential partner and then never again compromise. It's tough to do but it makes you less vulnerable to losing your love because you never agreed to terms that you found acceptable in the first place.

 

Love is hard. It requires tough negotiating and a clear understanding of your own goals and objectives. You have to be willing to walk away from the wrong one who feels so right to find the right one. Hugs to you. He isn't worth your doubts. I promise you that.

[Elfie]

Elfie,

 

I genuinely don't think it is ANY type of reflection on you. (Except for maybe your mate selection process - you always want to choose a mate who will commit to you in all the ways you need him to.)

 

Men are not wired like us, first of all. So, I think they may be a bit more successful at separating their lives into small compartments. One is happiness with new love; the other may be happiness with old love. And it may have never been his intention to do anything other than enjoy those two compartments in his life. If, on the other hand, this type of relationship - one that lacks exclusivity - is unacceptable to you, it leads to an obvious fracture. It may be still him that ends up doing the "breaking up," but it could be because that which was once carefree and easy just got complicated. Please hear me: you didn't do anything wrong in asking for what you need and you are NOT less of a person because he didn't give that to you. My opinion would be that he was never going to offer you what you needed (or any other woman for that matter) and there is no way you could be so wonderful as to inspire him to do more. His terms of endearment that he offered to you simply didn't include this.

 

My wish for you would be for you to take from this situation what it is that you absolutely must have from a potential partner and then never again compromise. It's tough to do but it makes you less vulnerable to losing your love because you never agreed to terms that you found acceptable in the first place.

 

Love is hard. It requires tough negotiating and a clear understanding of your own goals and objectives. You have to be willing to walk away from the wrong one who feels so right to find the right one. Hugs to you. He isn't worth your doubts. I promise you that.

 

Huge thanks Georgia girl - your reply and explanation helped me through some of the foggy thoughts I've had, that are becoming quite destructive.

 

Finding a way to understand why something happened - the reason/cause/motivation on each of the AP's side - can be the turning point to moving on and this forum is really helping and giving me somewhere to turn (I haven't told anyone of this situation for fear of reprisals).

[AnotherRound]

There are a million reasons people stay in a relationship they have outgrown - it's just that often there are children, and children are a pretty good reason to stay for most people. After a couple has children, even when those children are grown - they still have family things. This often begins to include grandchildren - which many couples look forward to doing together - so, that's a big one for some people.

 

Marriages take a whole lot of different areas of our lives and mush them all together - kind of like putting all of our eggs into one big basket. It's really hard for some people (most?) to dig into that basket and disentangle everything in a way that is healthy and equal and go their separate ways.

 

Humans, for the most part, are creatures that fear what they don't know. Especially those folks that have been married for all of their adult life... they just have NO idea what anything else feels like, so they are fearful - and understandably.

 

I have no idea with your scenario why he stays - but if he stays, he has his reasons. My exMM was really honest with me about the reasons he stayed - have you just asked him? Have you given him the ability to be completely honest with you about this? He may be fearful to be 100% honest for fear of hurting your feelings by something he says?

 

My exMM said that he could not imagine being married to his now exW still if they had no children - that he couldn't imagine rattling around the house, just the two of them - bc in his heart and mind, he was there for his children MOSTLY. However, there were other reasons he was there too - and had the children not been the factor - something else may have kept him there as well. He has also admitted, reluctantly, that he really enjoyed the fact that his exW set up all the "stuff" with his grandchildren, and he basically just had to show up. He was able to focus on his work and his exW was the master scheduler - which saved him a lot of time, and he enjoyed that perk a lot. Many married men won't admit this - but it's true for many of them - women tend to be the ones that keep those connections flowing by setting things up and such - and married men greatly benefit from that.

 

Anyway - everyone has their reasons. If he isn't able or willing to tell you his reasons, I'm not sure I would spend a lot of time trying to figuring it out - as it would all just kind of be guessing.

[AnotherRound]

PS You might be surprised by how many people wouldn't have a negative reaction to you revealing this situation. I haven't had anyone really react negatively to me when revealed. People seem to state their piece - whatever that is - and then they are over it. I didn't lose any friends and have often been surprised by how many people not only don't care - but are supportive of me even if they aren't on the "let's all have an affair" bandwagon.

[thomasb]

Wow. From everything you have posted about this man I am questioning why you would want him. Too be his next mommy? Seriously? You can do so much better. He is an illiterate cheat! Who can't even own a home. No wonder he stays if his option is a homeless shelter. Geez, Really!

[thefooloftheyear]

When the MM/MW says they can't leave because of the kids they really mean:

 

I can't leave because deep down I love my spouse and I'm not ready to give up yet.

 

For some maybe, but if you think thats the case for all you are absolutely wrong. In fact Id be more inclined to think thats the reality than the opposite.

 

Yes, folks....Staying in a lousy marriage for the sake of the kids does happen...Millions...every day.

 

TFOY

[AnotherRound]

For some maybe, but if you think thats the case for all you are absolutely wrong. In fact Id be more inclined to think thats the reality than the opposite.

 

Yes, folks....Staying in a lousy marriage for the sake of the kids does happen...Millions...every day.

 

TFOY

 

Sadly enough - some people simply dismiss the children as if they don't matter by insinuating that nobody would stay in a lousy marriage for them. I feel sad for children who have parents that can't believe that they are worth that - or see that another parent may find that a worthy reason to sacrifice their own well-being.

[MissBee]

Many MM's use the kids as a reason for staying, but what's the truth when there are no kids - or the kids are grown up? And those kids were from both BS and MM's previous marriages, so they don't have kids together?

 

I got the "I just can't leave right now" line over and over, but he isn't the major wage earner and their home is rented local authority. They rarely go out together - I could see as I live close by - and it was usually dentist or family visits. He told me times he was snapped at, moaned at, treated like a dosgbody and always being called on to fetch and carry for his married stepdaughter, usually for things she could or should be doing for herself (she is married and in her 30's).

 

He claims she takes care of the money, his wages, post and the bills, he doesn't read well (why he never sent texts but he knew to get a separate mobile just for me) and doesn't use a computer. I didn't know if he felt de-masculinised.

 

His wife works weekdays till late, then runs an internet business in the evening (of course I can see the sales, they're online, so I know they don't spend much time together on the sofa, although it hurt to think some of the time they did) and I would see wine and takeaways - and through all the time together with him, the most he treated me to was some flowers (some were dead) and coffee at a burger store and DIY store (out of the way I guess).

 

So what's their reason for staying in these circumstances? Because I am obviously such a great person that he prefers what he has and it's killing what tiny self esteem I had. It's over, in the end the highs and lows were changing hour by hour, but dealing with it is hard for various reasons and I can't move forward.

 

The reason is: he wants to stay.

 

I'm sorry Elfie. I can imagine how you must feel.

 

However, it is not a reflection of you.

 

We cannot make people want to be with us...so all we can do is find someone who wants to and makes it happen. If he has no kids and his life is horrible but he still won't leave, it's time for you to leave. Some would rather complain and stay put than make changes and truth is, I think majority of MM are not in exit affairs, that is, they weren't already planning a divorce and halfway out. Many have no intention of divorcing, happy or not, but pretend they do or fantasize and in the fog make believe they will but when reality hits they don't.

 

Initially it will be hard but eventually you will heal from this and realize it so wasn't worth it and better is in store. ((hugs))

[2sure]

Darling. You scoped out their garbage to find wine and take away containers which hurt your feelings.

 

There's a couple issues here that you want to think about!

[Elfie]

 

I have no idea with your scenario why he stays - but if he stays, he has his reasons. My exMM was really honest with me about the reasons he stayed - have you just asked him? Have you given him the ability to be completely honest with you about this? He may be fearful to be 100% honest for fear of hurting your feelings by something he says?

 

Many married men won't admit this - but it's true for many of them - women tend to be the ones that keep those connections flowing by setting things up and such - and married men greatly benefit from that.

 

Anyway - everyone has their reasons. If he isn't able or willing to tell you his reasons, I'm not sure I would spend a lot of time trying to figuring it out - as it would all just kind of be guessing.

 

I asked hin often, and 9 out of 10 times he'd say "I just can't leave yet" and other common reply "I stay for the years we've been together" (which is 15 or 16)

 

I think there is an element of fear - he married 1st wife young, then into 2nd then into 3rd, now in his 50's he's never been on his own for a real length of time and at his age I guess he doesn't want to leap incase it's another mistake (or am I trying to make myself feel better )

 

He did kind of sound me out once and said (when referring to his W working in a separate room all night many nights, on her hobbies and business) "I could move and then you end up working in your office all night". I wondered if he was wondering how life would be with me. He also said once "If you got with me you'd probably think I was boring after a while...". He obviously had some doubts - and once he said "If we did get together we'd have to nove away", so I think he did consider it....maybe..

 

I am out of the A, but having difficulty understanding it and why, so I can move on.

[Elfie]

Wow. From everything you have posted about this man I am questioning why you would want him. Too be his next mommy? Seriously? You can do so much better. He is an illiterate cheat! Who can't even own a home. No wonder he stays if his option is a homeless shelter. Geez, Really!

 

It has been hard to distinguish his actions at times, often caring but often using/taking great advantage, yes, it is hard to understand myself. I don't personally think I can do better, if my past realtionships are anything to go by, I'm pretty used to not expecting very much, on a practical level that becomes the norm.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to be supportive with calling him illiterate - he had reasons for struggling at school and anyone cheat or not, shouldn't be pulled down just because they don't have the same skills most people have - he's good with his hands, DIY, grows things, other skills. It took alot to admit to me about his reading and he tried to hide it at the start. When I had already guessed, I felt love for him, wanted to help and protect him, so in shops I'd read things out as if in conversation and not make a big deal out of it - or do what his wife did and call him "thick". But maybe that's one of the reasons he would have been able to tell me, and not others.

 

He did own a home, with 5 bedrooms, he also ran a shop for 20 years and a pub. I am not a home owner but was once, no thanks to a cheating wife beating husband - my MM doesn't just have a homeless shelter as an option, he had me, which is why I can't understand him haha, but you should never judge someone for falling on hard times - "There but for the Grace of God" hey?

[AnotherRound]

Pretty similar to the things my exMM used to say too -and now that he is on his own, he is still not quite settled. It will come in time - as he realizes that he doesn't need to be in a marriage to be happy.

 

My exMM never believed that the grass was greener on the other side -in fact, he often worried that it would be "exactly the same" or even "less than" if he left - and all the hassle of the divorce and all that just to end up in another relationship that sucked? Eh - he was scared, of course he was.

 

People with good sense look at these things realistically and know that the odds are 50/50 - it could go either way. They might go through all the bs of a divorce to be much happier - but they are also aware that they might go through it all and then be less happy. I don't think it has much to do with the BS - as I haven't heard many people use the term soulmate (except from BSs here?? ) but a lot to do with humans just fearing change. You might come out of the frying pan and into the fire - ya know?

 

 

 

I asked hin often, and 9 out of 10 times he'd say "I just can't leave yet" and other common reply "I stay for the years we've been together" (which is 15 or 16)

 

I think there is an element of fear - he married 1st wife young, then into 2nd then into 3rd, now in his 50's he's never been on his own for a real length of time and at his age I guess he doesn't want to leap incase it's another mistake (or am I trying to make myself feel better )

 

He did kind of sound me out once and said (when referring to his W working in a separate room all night many nights, on her hobbies and business) "I could move and then you end up working in your office all night". I wondered if he was wondering how life would be with me. He also said once "If you got with me you'd probably think I was boring after a while...". He obviously had some doubts - and once he said "If we did get together we'd have to nove away", so I think he did consider it....maybe..

 

I am out of the A, but having difficulty understanding it and why, so I can move on.

[AnotherRound]

As an aside, our plan was never for him to leave to be with me. I wasn't even considering it as it wasn't on the table - there was no need for it. We were quite content - until I wasn't, lol. And for me - it was never about him leaving to be with me - but about him, his now exW and their children being happy. I HATED seeing a family living so miserably all for the sake of keeping that "married" title. It just goes against everything I believe in - living authentically, to me, is a requirement - not an option.

 

Pretty similar to the things my exMM used to say too -and now that he is on his own, he is still not quite settled. It will come in time - as he realizes that he doesn't need to be in a marriage to be happy.

 

My exMM never believed that the grass was greener on the other side -in fact, he often worried that it would be "exactly the same" or even "less than" if he left - and all the hassle of the divorce and all that just to end up in another relationship that sucked? Eh - he was scared, of course he was.

 

People with good sense look at these things realistically and know that the odds are 50/50 - it could go either way. They might go through all the bs of a divorce to be much happier - but they are also aware that they might go through it all and then be less happy. I don't think it has much to do with the BS - as I haven't heard many people use the term soulmate (except from BSs here?? ) but a lot to do with humans just fearing change. You might come out of the frying pan and into the fire - ya know?