MissBee Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 After more then 5 years of a intense loving PA/EA my mm decided in order to give me more of his time he would need to tell his wife about our relationship. So needless to say that didn't go as well as we had hoped. His bs freaked out and rightfully so. She said he could never see or speak to me again. Have I healed, well no have I moved on well no. That's all I can say on this open forum because some of the betrayed spouses become very nasty to the ap's even on a support forum for ow and om. Go figure! Hey canuck, I'm curious. When he decided to tell his wife so he could give you more of his time, did he expect that she would then agree to an open M where he could see you too? Clarifying this will help me in understand what you mean by she told him never to see/speak to you again and him agreeing.
wanting more Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 1st d-day was 2-1/2 years into the A. He lied to her, I lied to her. We continued the A for another year until 2nd d-day. This time he put all the blame on me and she bought it. She emailed, texted and called me for weeks letting me know she thought I was the worst kind of whore ever and how I seduced a good, loving, church going, devoted husband and father by throwing myself at him for years and using my own special tricks to get him to have sex (which she believed him when he said twice). Then My SO found out about the A. He and xMM BW started talking and texting to see if the stories they'd heard from us matched. Obviously they didn't. My SO knew way more details. She still tried to blame me entirely. After 100s of texts and phone calls from her, he told her stay out of his life, stop believing her WS lies and stop calling. A little over a month ago I started receiving voicemails from xMM that he loved and missed me. I called him, told him to leave me alone. She saw my phone # on his phone records and called and emailed me to leave him alone. Every now and then I have a message from him saying he misses me, and every now and then I get "whore, slut, trash" from her. At this point I just delete. xMM is a sorry coward POS and she's just off. I dont let it get to me. I said my apologies to her, gave all the proof of the 3 year A and she's the one whose got to live with him and vice versa. 1
Ladydrib Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 I think my om is experiencing a DDay. I am not certain yet. It's very uncomfortable not knowing. I find myself hoping it's not true so that he's not experiencing emotional trauma. I find myself hoping they can get past it. It's odd because I thought I would be worried about losing him. Or that he would chose her. Now that it's real I worry about them. I am routing for them. Has anyone else experienced this feeling?
stevie_23 Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 God, so much angst over these D-days. I've been there, done that. 4 times. D-day 1 - early 2011. My ex-MM's girlfriend hacked into his music forum account and found some old sent messages from him to me. Nothing big, but he was sharing deep emotions he had never shared with her. Nothing was discussed between them and we went back to normal except we never used that site for private messaging anymore as she now had open access to it. D-day 2 - late 2011. We'd now added constant texting to the mix (as well as twice daily online chatting, long emails and several videos a day) and his girlfriend looked up his phone bill online and found over 300 texts sent to me. She took his laptop and phone away for a few days and then gave them back when he said he needed them for work (which he did). No further discussion. We went quiet for those few days but nothing much changed. He got a secret phone after that and was extra careful with his email passwords. She continued to try to hack into his email account (he could tell as gmail sent a notification each time it happened) although she told him she would stop doing that. D-day 3 - August 2012. This was bad. 2 weeks of silence followed his explanation message to me, letting me know what had happened. His wife (they got married 3 weeks before this) found his secret phone AND he'd forgotten to logout of one of our email accounts so she read all his emails. She then deleted the account and threw away his phone. No further discussion between them. We resumed contact after those difficult 2 weeks and he got a new phone and made a new email account. We only had contact when his wife was not home from then on. Final D-day - December 2012. This ended us for good. She found his bank statement that showed the payments for his replacement secret phone. He couldn't deny it. He was tired of hiding, lying and living 2 lives in trying to be with me. So it was over. I basically lived in fear after that 3rd D-day of it happening again and me losing him. It was a horrible roller coaster of fear and anxiety for those last few months. I have definitely reconciled everything and have found peace. It's been 4 months since he ended it. And only a few days ago we have found a new and non-stressful friendship. It's very nice. 1
Got it Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) You feel in love, he is the greatest guy ever, kismet, fate. You both couldn't stop the feelings no matter what. You stood up and made him make a decision, you were not going to be the OW forever. His wife should let go and move on and find her own happiness, his relationship with his kids is strained and of course it is because the x-wife poisoned them against him. No And the question was what is my opinion on affairs (plural) not my affair. Which would be two different opinions though with some overlapping thoughts. But no, you are incorrect, on my opinion/thoughts on my affair and also no on my opinions/thoughts on affairs in general. So apparently my thoughts on this subject are not well known. Edited April 18, 2013 by Got it 2
skylarblue Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Dday was a result of our carelessness and her luck. xMM got Into the occasional habit of sneaking out after his W had gone to bed. One night I asked if I could see him. Even though he wasn't certain that she'd fallen asleep, he agreed to see me. Well, she wasn't a sleep. She heard him leave, and when he didn't return in a few minutes, she called him. For whatever reason his phone didn't ring, and since he didn't answer, she went looking for him and caught an obscured view of us getting into his car together. Two hours later when he walked in, she asked what was he doing outside for that time, told him he was getting sloppy, and that she'd seen him get in his car with someone (we were parked at their home the whole time, so he couldn't make up a friend with car trouble excuse). Obviously not a very pleasant night for either of them. There really were no consequences for him beside her further suspicions, snide comments, and conversations/arguments/questioning. It was astonishing how he virtually got off scot-free. He seemed to control dday by basically denying, lying, stonewalling, and blame-shifting, and though angry and not believing he was being truthful, she seemed to accept it. No MC (he agreed to go on dday but reneged and refused when she brought it up again). No admission or ownership to wrong-doing. No transparency or access to anything (not because she didn't ask, he just refused). No consequential, ultimate demands for anything she was asking for relating to the A. He even said dday's conversation ended by her getting inches from his face, looking him in straight in his eyes, and saying "I know with your job [training], you can look me right in the eye and lie with a straight face. So, why bother" and walking away. xMM admits that he got off fairly easy particularly in comparison to others he's known. Dday did not end or negatively affect our R. In fact, it seemed to heighten and strengthen our R, and was quite unexpected. I must say, I think she is at fault for that and the A not ending. She made it easy for him. I can't really understand her reactions and her allowing him to constantly sweep things under the rug. I have moved on from any desire to be in a R with xMM or sadness that we aren't together. We are still friends (A ended nearly 2yrs ago), but I have no/nil/zero intentions of re-engaging romantically. My memory is long. My ego is big. My value is high. And my mind is made up.
BrokenPrincess Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Sorry for the t/j. Stevie, I've been wondering about you, I was hoping that you had decided to come clean to your partner, but instead you've rekindled. Friends won't work hon, it just can't. I was just about to t/j the exact same thing. We were friends again for exactly one hour...by the end of phone call #2, we stopped pretending to be platonic and confessed our real feelings and that was it, we were back on. Stevie, I know you love him so much...post an update or pm me if you feel like it or need to talk. I'm navigating NC to EA after a DDay too.
WakingUp Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 D Day, instigated by me, and was meant as a positive means for everyone to move on....and has completely messed me up again. I got so sick and tired of the lies, the deception, the whole game... I told his wife. I told her and apologised. It was four years of affair, four years of broken promises, and I reached my limit and I really didn't want to do this to her anymore (or me, or him). No contact never worked in the past. I figured ok, lets get it out, we can all have the truth, get back to our real lives and move on. I didn't think I would hear from him again. I am quite sincere about that. I just wanted it to END. Well it didn't. He told her he was not giving me up, that he would be a better man if he kept me in his life, and that she needed to accept that. As a result I am seeing him without her being lied to. And I still don't like it. I am still home alone and he is appeasing her. He has told her he will never leave her... and he is home with her now. And I am home alone. And very freaking angry. How on earth did this happen? I felt so good when I thought it was over, that the truth was out, and that I could just get on with my life. Now I am trapped more than before. And if it matters... I really do love this man.
WakingUp Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 I told her myself. He was never going to. I told her, and apologised. He has had a lot more freedom to see me since it happened... seriously, he would never have got away with it before. But I am so not happy. And neither is he. Its a mess. I am crashing badly tonight... I just want it to STOP. I feel as though I owe him now. That I cant just walk away because of what he has done. He has stuck up for me and not thrown me to the wolves. He has insisted that he will not give me up. I now feel obligated... to what? A man who is remaining married and is concerned about someone elses feelings? Good grief, he told me that as a result of all this she got mouth ulcers and a cold sore. Guess what? Wonder if I am sharing hers because they both started yesterday on me. Bad, bad, bad.
WakingUp Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 So, be careful what you wish for. Actually I just wished for a resolution to it all. I wanted to be let go of. Now I feel snared in a net. There is no answer to this, but I would really like some support. I feel like a deer in headlights. Good grief, its just not worth it. As much as I love him, the hurt is unbelievable. To all of us.
stevie_23 Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Hey LadyG and BrokenP...please don't worry about me. It truly is just a friendship. I feel like the last bit of the puzzle has fallen into place now and I feel 100% settled. It is NOT back on. Nothing is "rekindled". It can NEVER be back on and I do not WANT it to be. I will never go back to how things were, even if he wanted to. No way. We are just friends. That is all. And I'm glad.
Journee Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) DDay for was during the most hectic times in our life together. In the thick of a year long separation and rough reconciliation (non A issues). I'm six months pregnant with our second child but still refuse to have him come home. We are both playing our hands close to our chests not really sure what to do. We could not let each other go yet our fear of the unknown drove a wedge between us. I pushed him so far away it's a wonder he didn't throw his hands up and say forget it. He had chased me for a year and even pregnant with his baby girl I held my stupid pride above all. Enter OW...8 weeks and three sexual encounters later. I call her. She is literally having sex with a man other than my H as I listen on the phone.... I about have a coronary. I thought it was H at the time. She called back and hung up on me when I told her who I was. She knew about me but figured if he and I didn't care enough to live and act as a married couple she shouldn't care either. Turns out she was dating several men and was married herself. They both used one another for attention. She and I met and I think the enormity of it hit us both. She really didn't have anything invested in H. Her seeing my pregnant belly shook her I think. She tried to paint herself in the victim light but I called hey on it. What a huge wake up call for me. Get over myself and my FOO issues that plagued my R with my husband. Crap or get off the pot. Let him love me. Stop believing that he would abandon me like so, many have. He isn't the man who raped me or the mother that abandoned me. He is the man who loved me despite myself. He could had chosen DDay to end it all. Hell , we weren't even living together. He chose me. He chose us. We moved into a new place and are doing well. We both were fools. We both have some growing up to do. I started a thread about some revelations I had about the A and our previous separation. It didn't garner many responses or traffic but I'm glad to share it again. Edited April 19, 2013 by Journee 1
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 D Day, instigated by me, and was meant as a positive means for everyone to move on....and has completely messed me up again. I got so sick and tired of the lies, the deception, the whole game... I told his wife. I told her and apologised. It was four years of affair, four years of broken promises, and I reached my limit and I really didn't want to do this to her anymore (or me, or him). No contact never worked in the past. I figured ok, lets get it out, we can all have the truth, get back to our real lives and move on. I didn't think I would hear from him again. I am quite sincere about that. I just wanted it to END. Well it didn't. He told her he was not giving me up, that he would be a better man if he kept me in his life, and that she needed to accept that. As a result I am seeing him without her being lied to. And I still don't like it. I am still home alone and he is appeasing her. He has told her he will never leave her... and he is home with her now. And I am home alone. And very freaking angry. How on earth did this happen? I felt so good when I thought it was over, that the truth was out, and that I could just get on with my life. Now I am trapped more than before. And if it matters... I really do love this man. You're so close to this, and you weren't quite expecting this outcome. Give it some time, think about it, but don't ever think you owe him anything! Do what's right for you. How does his W feel about the new arrangement? How long will she tolerate it? Have you spoken to her about this? 2
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Please share your D-day stories. How the discovery happened. What were the consequences. Have you healed and moved on? If you were the BS, are you able to truly forgive and live in a functioning marriage? Thanks so much. I'm just trying to understand. BW, MOW, SOW here, and it's ended with xMM. 19 Ddays and the mods trashed my thread because some didn't want to understand like you do. So now I have to repost my boring story again, lol. In my M I realized xH was never really going to love me the way I needed after I learned about OW even though he begged me to keep the M together. I considered it for a while, tried MC and IC, and decided to put him in the spare room. My A began while xH was living in that spare room. I never felt guilt and though he had suspicions he never confronted me because I had already told him the M was over in my heart. I have healed and moved on from my xH's A. I no longer blame him, in fact I don't blame him for most of the minor things as well. It's not his fault our chemistry was mismatched, and it's not his fault that we were mismatched. Etc. 7 years with xMM produced 19 Ddays. Too many to discuss the hows but the end result was usually a scenario with xMM groveling in a Deer in the Headlights confrontation in which he felt speechless. I've heard him describe this to his IC; that he likens his BW to his disciplinary father (not his mother), and he just turns into a little boy and caves. And she can have him because I am so not into little boys. xMM and I are in contact and he says she is unable to forgive despite her saying so and her weekly visits to church. She has lost the trust and puts him through the Spanish Inquisition daily. He says the M is not functioning at all and he is sleeping in the guest room. I believe him because he has been on the computer with me every night between 9pm-1am, and she goes to bed at 9. He moved back in after a long separation about a year ago and says they've tried to have sex twice but it flopped both times. Talk about beating a dead horse. *for anyone who doubts, xMM has zero problem telling me about sex with his W and whether he enjoys it. I don't get jealous. Edited April 20, 2013 by White Flower Typo
AnotherRound Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 ExH and I had been married just under three years, together for about 7 in total. Our marriage was crap - we just could not communicate with one another. Not to mention, we met when we were 19, and we changed a LOT over the next few years - our relationship was not handling those changes well at all. I just had a feeling that something was off. Something just felt - off. We had already stopped having sex, so that was a big indicator too. We couldn't get along for 5 minutes! I was talking to my friend one day about it and she said, "If you think he is cheating, he is". I don't necessarily agree with that - but I knew something was going on, there was just this really weird vibe between us. So, I went out of state to watch my sister get her Masters degree - we had planned the trip months before. At the last minute, he backed out of the trip, said he had to work. On the way to the airport, I noticed he wasn't wearing his wedding ring - I knew then. I went on the trip anyway - alone - and he stayed at our house. While I was out of state, he wouldn't answer my calls at all (I was trying to check on my dog, she had frequent siezures when stressed and was always stressed when I was gone). When I got home, my house was SPOTLESS, lol. And this from a man that never cleaned - never. I then noticed that all of the pics from our wedding and us and my family were put into a drawer in the desk. I called my same friend from before, exH was at work, friend came over and she went through everything. I mean everything. I just kind of followed her around and watched... lol... she was on a mission! Anyway, she found some things (used condoms included) and laid it all out as "evidence". I looked up our phone records, called a number on there that I thought was probably the OW - it was. I told her that I knew she was having an affair with my husband. I then called my exH and told him to come straight home from work bc we needed to talk. He did - I asked, he lied - even with the evidence, and tried to get his best friend to back his story up by leaving the house, calling his friend, and then his friend called me and tried to talk me out of believing exH had a gf. Eh - lol. When exH came back, I told him to pack his bags - and he did, tearfully, but he did. That was it. I didn't have any further contact with the OW, and they dated for a while. I made exH file for divorce since I didn't want to pay for it, lol - and he did about a month later. I moved 600 miles away, and started a new life. He and his OW broke up and he and I did try to reconcile for a minute- but it ended up being just frustrating bc we just didn't work well together - no matter that we did love each other, and we truly did. I took him to the airport for the last time - told him that I loved him but that we weren't ever going to work and that we needed to move on - he agreed. We haven't spoken since - and that was in like 2002 I think? Maybe 2003 - I can't even remember, lol. So, as far as D-days go, his was pretty mellow all things considered, as it was for his OW. I just let them be. They dated, I stayed in the house and made plans to move out of state and then did. Started a PhD program as within a month after arriving here, and the rest is history. No D-day for me as an OW with exMM. He told his wife before he and I even started dating that he wanted an open marriage and that he was going to treat theirs like one since she wouldn't agree or disagree and refused to discuss anything about the marriage at all. So - she was actually aware of me before I was aware of her... weird, I know, lol. 1
Silly_Girl Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 That a happy ending implies that everyone got to walk away and be happy. Oh yeah, much happier to stick together in a marriage with someone you no longer love or want to be with, pile the resentment and frustration up and watch the kids reap the benefits of that little time bomb. Much happier for all. 7
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Oh yeah, much happier to stick together in a marriage with someone you no longer love or want to be with, pile the resentment and frustration up and watch the kids reap the benefits of that little time bomb. Much happier for all. Exactly why I am happy that I opted for D. 2
AnotherRound Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Exactly why I am happy that I opted for D. Same here. I was glad of the D-day - it kicked me in gear. I hadn't been happy for a while (exH hadn't either, obviously) - and I just did NOT want to fail, or give up - and kept convincing myself that I had no "real" reason to leave the marriage -he wasn't beating me, he wasn't an addict - etc. I look back now and am so glad that I learned that my happiness, my contentment, my fulfillment is reason enough to leave a relationship - even a marriage (not that I will ever marry again - it would take a pretty special person for me to do that again). Like I said - everything is a learning experience, and for me, I see the D-day as a positive thing. I learned from it, and I progressed bc of it. 1
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Like I said - everything is a learning experience, and for me, I see the D-day as a positive thing. I learned from it, and I progressed bc of it. It's important I think to convey just how beneficial a D can be for both men and women. I think so many fear change, fear the big D, and just don't realize the personal growth involved or the true gift of freedom. Oftentimes fear keeps Ms together, and not love. Sadly, fear robs so many couples of growth and strength, and an opportunity to be with someone better suited for them or to find peace and harmony in solitude. Not sure I'll M again. Edited April 20, 2013 by White Flower 5
Author Goodbye Posted April 20, 2013 Author Posted April 20, 2013 I agree. Some people judged me for initiating a divorce with my H of 17n years. It was the scariest and bravest thing I've done. I could have hung out in the very secure marriage...surely would have been convenient. But we deserved better. In a way, I was setting him free too. We were no longer together for the reasons we'd married. Pulling the plug enabled us to both move on. And my kids DO understand and respect this decision. 6
TheBladeRunner Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I am the BS in the case of my disaster. DDay was a direct result of a confrontation, I just had a "gut feeling" something was up. Between being totally ignored and treated like sh%^ for several months and the fact she was making so many changes to her appearance (which did not help or hide her fat a#$), and she stopped wearing her wedding bands. After confrontation, looking at bank records and the cell phone bill told the tale. I never really paid much attention to FaceBook and found stuff there too. She has wanted to reconcile three separate times but I have refused due to the fact that I have come to the realization that she is incapable of working on here own issues. It has been over a year since the first A (there were 3) and I can honestly say I have moved on. It still bothers me what she did, but it is what it is and not to be a jerk here, but she has really let herself go. Out of control eating, failure to work on herself, and man o' man does she drink like a fish these days. I am making good progress on forgiveness, but I will not forget how she went about everything. The healing started when I finally realized that for now, I cannot be her friend right now. We do have a child together and I see her from time to time and I have to admit it has gotten to a point where when I do see her I am at a point of indifference.
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I am the BS in the case of my disaster. DDay was a direct result of a confrontation, I just had a "gut feeling" something was up. Between being totally ignored and treated like sh%^ for several months and the fact she was making so many changes to her appearance (which did not help or hide her fat a#$), and she stopped wearing her wedding bands. After confrontation, looking at bank records and the cell phone bill told the tale. I never really paid much attention to FaceBook and found stuff there too. She has wanted to reconcile three separate times but I have refused due to the fact that I have come to the realization that she is incapable of working on here own issues. It has been over a year since the first A (there were 3) and I can honestly say I have moved on. It still bothers me what she did, but it is what it is and not to be a jerk here, but she has really let herself go. Out of control eating, failure to work on herself, and man o' man does she drink like a fish these days. I am making good progress on forgiveness, but I will not forget how she went about everything. The healing started when I finally realized that for now, I cannot be her friend right now. We do have a child together and I see her from time to time and I have to admit it has gotten to a point where when I do see her I am at a point of indifference. Good for you TBR. Indifference is really a strong indication of healing. I was with my exH for 25 years which is a pretty long time. I cried a lot of tears over that man until I could cry no more. One day I was at a candle light vigil for my daughter's BFF and he came to support my daughter. I looked up, saw him, and felt absolutely nothing. No anger, no love, no emotion of any kind. It felt healthy. 3
heartinlove Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 3 years now. Multiple D-days. Endless promises of leaving marriage. MM turns into a ball of fear whenever he's about to pull the plug. Scared of the ugliness, how it will affect the kids. He stays out of fear and guilt. Says I am the one he wishes to be with. I know thats true. Never doubted that. He hasn't had the courage to go into the unknown. Scared of all the pain he will cause. I understand, I really do. Multiple attempts at NC, multiple fails. In NC that I chose once again. I am determined to stick to it this time. If he ever comes back, he needs to come back available. I dont understand or believe its good for anyone to stay out of fear and guilt. I don't believe any woman would really want that. Maybe, Im wrong. I wish I knew what lay ahead in the future. It would be easier. 4
AnotherRound Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 OMG this is exactly what has happened to me' date=' please pm me. How can we get ourselves out of this?? I am five years now, eights months d day[/quote'] I did this for 7 years - with the wife knowing and consenting in her own way. Eventually, their inaction and willingness to settle for this half relationship/marriage was something I didn't want to participate in any longer. It wasn't about her or me or each of us vs each other for me. It was about the fact that I would never live in a situation as false as that - so, how could I assist the two of them in doing so? Not to mention, I felt so sorry for their children seeing as their role model for a relationship was so screwy. I just couldn't continue to help them live a half life, live a lie. I think you get yourself out by realizing that. By realizing that the two of them are refusing to take action bc they are BOTH afraid - and not taking action out of fear to me is not respectable. It's not something I can admire or respect or participate in. You will know when you have had "enough" of both of them holding on to something that neither really wants. It got to a point for me that it was literally disgusting - I could barely not roll my eyes when their marriage was mentioned bc of the joke that it was. Eventually, they admitted that too and separated and are now divorced - but it took them 10 years - 7 of those with me as a known OW. I just couldn't stomach it anymore... 5
White Flower Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Heartinlove, your post caught my eye and here is why. You said several things that stood out to me about why your mm stays but the one I hope that you think really hard on is this one, "scared of all the pain he will cause". That is a huge contradiction heart, and this is why, he has caused tremendous pain already, to you, to his wife and to his kids and to himself. You say there has been multiple d days, and still he keeps doing this to you, to his wife, to his kids, so I'm sorry I have to call bs, because he is creating pain, and recreating it again and again. If he stays when he really doesn't want to, more pain again, for you, his wife, his kids. It's like you and his wife is riding the same ship and it's sinking, are you going to keep going down on it or are you going to get off? Do you really want such a spineless man, a man who says he doesn't want to create pain, but does it all over again at every d day? If you continue to ride this trainwreck your perception of love and pain is messed up, BTDT myself and it's so not worth it. See the man for what he really is, not who you want or think he can be. He IS a man who keeps hurting people despite claiming he doesn't want to, this includes YOU. 3 years now. Multiple D-days. Endless promises of leaving marriage. MM turns into a ball of fear whenever he's about to pull the plug. Scared of the ugliness, how it will affect the kids. He stays out of fear and guilt. Says I am the one he wishes to be with. I know thats true. Never doubted that. He hasn't had the courage to go into the unknown. Scared of all the pain he will cause. I understand, I really do. Multiple attempts at NC, multiple fails. In NC that I chose once again. I am determined to stick to it this time. If he ever comes back, he needs to come back available. I dont understand or believe its good for anyone to stay out of fear and guilt. I don't believe any woman would really want that. Maybe, Im wrong. I wish I knew what lay ahead in the future. It would be easier. Heartinlove, I know someone just addressed you and suggested that your MM is a spineless contradiction, etc., and in many ways he is but the reasons for that are not always understood on this board. I post on another board where we get the perspective of all kinds of men whether they be SOM, MOM, MM, etc., and in an atmosphere of nonjudgment where it's completely safe for a man to post honestly we often get to hear why these men are so "spineless". In a nutshell it comes down to the differences in how men and women think and how they view things and are viewed. I was told by a WH that women are wired to love while men are wired to be dutiful. A woman will kill for their child in the name of love while a man will kill for his child in the call of duty. They think this way and know they are viewed this way. And they also value this duty higher than love, whereas it's the opposite for women. As we age we are supposed to become more like our sexual counterparts and grow together; they should get in touch with their female side and vise versa, and when they can do this they are ready to accept that it's okay to prioritize love over duty. This may explain (to women) how so many MM can convince themselves that they love their BW; it's their duty to do so. When your guy gives himself permission to prioritize love over duty then you two have a chance. I know I would never want a H to stay with me out of duty. BTDT and I'd rather D. And I did. Oh, and about your view on love being messed up, please disregard this line of thinking because if BW wasn't up for the ride she wouldn't buy the tickets. After 19 Ddays I know what I'm talking about. Only you know what it's worth to you. 6
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